Accelerated Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Hey Sip, you like to make fun of the French, but have you seen the latest US flag circulating around the world? http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/05/10/main_torture.jpg ...and there is apparently worse to come. Now if you happened to be the son of that humiliated man, would you not take a gun and kill every American in sight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted May 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 First Evidence of Torture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Give me a freaking break .. the prisoners here in the US get much worse treatment including daily rapings and being beat up or killed and you want me to feel sorry for a bunch of prisoners of war being paraded around with women's underwear? Oh boooo hooo hooo how sad. I just hope this is enough to ruin bush's chances of reelection as he totally pisses me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Give me a freaking break .. the prisoners here in the US get much worse treatment including daily rapings and being beat up or killed Mostly by their fellow prisoners that is. So you're saying that something like the US Army should follow the example? Just because others do it doesn't make it right. Weren't they the ones preaching freedom and democracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Weren't they the ones preaching freedom and democracy? Well yes. But as Sip pointed out, this is what "freedom and democracy" is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 This isn't the first time the US army has done this. Clearly bullying and torturing is taught to be good. I'm really disgusted, but then again I have been disgusted from the very beginning. Those among you who were screaming "Bomb Iraq!", I hope you're happy. This war is also your war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I can hardly get the feel of similar sheer "resentment" if/when something happens to Americans abroad. Somehow it is so totally different, difficult to describe. One would have thought that such wouldn't take place at such scale and under such circumstances. After all, this is the army you are talking about - there has to be some discipline, it has to be better than any police force or what have you. Then again, we saw Amerikanski discipline when they covered Sodamn Insane's statue's head with the Amerikanski flag. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Well yes. But as Sip pointed out, this is what "freedom and democracy" is all about. I guess you have a point God bless America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted May 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 to feel sorry for a bunch of prisoners of war being paraded around with women's underwear? ....there are more photographs of the same man lying on the ground with a large gash in his leg in a pool of blood: I think thats a little worse then 'parading in woman's underwear'. The British Army has allready addmitted to 30 civilian DEATHS in their custody, presumably from fatigue after being endlessly paraded in women's underwear! After all, this is the army you are talking about - there has to be some discipline, it has to be better than any police force or what have you. oh there is discipline allright: these reservists are doing exactly what they are told! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I guess you have a point I'm afraid so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted May 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 you want me to feel sorry for a bunch of prisoners of war being paraded around with women's underwear? ....before I forget, these arnt POWs but people detained after the 'liberation' of Iraq. And I just heard an admission on TV by US officials that 70% are wrongfully detained - and thats their numbers: apparently they just randomly pluck men (and women!) off the streets and administer this sort of punishment. And even if they were POWs they are meant to be under the protection of the Geneva convention: or maybe thats just Bush talking sh!t (again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 ....before I forget, these arnt POWs but people detained after the 'liberation' of Iraq. And I just heard an admission on TV by US officials that 70% are wrongfully detained - and thats their numbers: apparently they just randomly pluck men (and women!) off the streets and administer this sort of punishment. And even if they were POWs they are meant to be under the protection of the Geneva convention: or maybe thats just Bush talking sh!t (again). Wow, crazy facts. I knew about the deaths (from being paraded with women's underwear and fig leaves) but not this much. Also, one has to take note that Bush talking sh!t is repetitive. He's just talking as usual. I feel so childish for saying that. Anyway, this and Guantanamo can't be a coincidence. Next time they air American POWs sh!tting in their pants on Al-Jazeera, I better not hear some Amerikanski citing the Geneva Convention's clause on stink control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 We are a nation of hypocrites! Christian bible pounding Israeli stanch supporters to heartland Bush war machine fanatics and to top it off we are “spreading democracy”! Total garbage! Guess who got the contracts supplying oil to US forces-Israel! a country without oil-pathetic! One of Israel's largest oil marketing firms has won a multi-million dollar tender to supply fuel to US troops in Iraq. According to a IsraelNationalNews.com report, the tender awarded to Sonol gasoline company, along with its foreign partner Morgantown International In recent years, however, Israel has stepped up its imports from Russia and the Caspian region and now reportedly gets most of its oil from former Soviet states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3701351.stm UK troops 'shot harmless Iraqis' An eye-witness said Hanan Saleh Matrud's death was not an accident UK troops have killed Iraqi civilians including an eight-year-old girl when they were under no apparent threat, Amnesty International has claimed. The human rights organisation claims in a report that in "many" cases the deaths of civilians by the British military had not been investigated. Inquiries have been "secretive" and conducted by Military Police, it adds. The claims are the latest in string of allegations about the treatment of Iraqis by US and British forces. Separately on Tuesday the High Court ruled that relatives of 12 Iraqis allegedly killed by UK troops will get a full court hearing into the decision not to hold independent inquiries. The families want to have the deaths declared a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights, but the UK government says the convention does not apply in Iraq. Too bad for iraqi civilians, they were hoping for "democracy". Now they learn "human rights" are geographically based in Europe. Nice try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted May 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 One of Israel's largest oil marketing firms has won a multi-million dollar tender to supply fuel to US troops in Iraq. According to a IsraelNationalNews.com report, the tender awarded to Sonol gasoline company, along with its foreign partner Morgantown International - what about fuel from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and co. or Iraq itself, instead of pumping it to the Black Sea and then shipping it via the Bosphorus (I assume). Efficient Market Hypothesis gone AWOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 America is on it's way to quickly becoming the most agressive nation in the world. Scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 (edited) Isn't it already the most aggressive? I felt horrible seeing that pic, who wouldnt hate america for ockupying a coountry and then using torture and murder to control the people there?! Edited May 11, 2004 by koko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/05/10/main_torture.jpg http://www.poynterextra.org/cp/AP.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 And I just heard an admission on TV by US officials that 70% are wrongfully detained - and thats their numbers: apparently they just randomly pluck men (and women!) off the streets and administer this sort of punishment. 90% is the figure from US intelligence officials, being quoted in British media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 America is on it's way to quickly becoming the most agressive nation in the world. Scary. On it's way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 The British Army has allready addmitted to 30 civilian DEATHS in their custody, presumably from fatigue after being endlessly paraded in women's underwear Wrong - this figure, and I've seen a lower figure elsewhere, is of civilian deaths that are not obviously justified (i.e. those killed were not behaving in any sort of a hostile way). Most were not in custody when killed (none were, if you believe Labour party spin). I'd guess the American figure, would be into the 1000s if you count those civilians killed as a result of indiscriminate US bombing and shooting in Falluja and elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Wrong - this figure, and I've seen a lower figure elsewhere, is of civilian deaths that are not obviously justified (i.e. those killed were not behaving in any sort of a hostile way). Most were not in custody when killed (none were, if you believe Labour party spin). Demonization, dehumnization and let me add another here, monsteraization are preludes to wars and massacres. Once we are sonvinced that the adversary is less than human the rest is easy. For American that has been wearing trousers for a long time it is easy to consider anyone who does not as inferior and less than human. How coincidental? As I am writing therse lines the Novak and gang on CNN are talking about the "demonization of Saddam". There are many races and people who consider themselves above the rest. I will not name them. You fill in the blanks. At time Armenians have acted similarly but in our case we ended up not the massacrers but the massacred. Why??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I would feel horrible about those reports of abuse if Iraq was known for it's track record for following international law (e.g. geneva convetion ...) but they themselves are certainly not playing by any rules so it's a bit strange coming down on the US for these reports and making the US to be the only bad guy. Are these reports desturbing and are the actions wrong? Sure. No doubt about it. But we are talking about prison and we are talking about a part of the world that is in huge chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted May 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 (edited) Wrong - this figure, and I've seen a lower figure elsewhere, is of civilian deaths that are not obviously justified (i.e. those killed were not behaving in any sort of a hostile way). Most were not in custody when killed (none were, if you believe Labour party spin). yes, I think you are right: it was total civilian deaths, not just in custody. Movses, unfortunatelly we do not have access to any photoes of Iraqis blown to pieces by US bombs....and the anger displayed in the Iraqi photo is a direct result of the photo next to it....like I said if my father had been humiliated in that manner I would do far worse to any American soldier I could lay my hands on. But we are talking about prison and we are talking about a part of the world that is in huge chaos. Armenia just happens ot be in that part of the world, and the US portrays itself as a beacon of freedom and democracy.... Edited May 12, 2004 by Accelerated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 I would feel horrible about those reports of abuse if Iraq was known for it's track record for following international law (e.g. geneva convetion ...) but they themselves are certainly not playing by any rules so it's a bit strange coming down on the US for these reports and making the US to be the only bad guy. Sip jan, no one is saying that the US is the only bad guy... but we should expect that the US, for all the preaching about ridding the world of evil, should really demonstrate themselves to be 'above' that type of behaviour. When in fact the reality is, soldiers will be soldiers. Was Saddam as bad as his (perhaps) trumped up track record indicates? Probably. What about the American army's track record? The fact that one can even draw parallels between an 'evil' dictatorial regime and the actions of the American military (who are a product of a progressive and supposedly well-meaning society) is disappointing beyond words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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