gevo27 Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 "According to the Bible 1/3 of the worlds population will die at the end time, whos side are you on?" Gevo what sense does your signature make, if it’s the END what happens to the other 2/3? <_< I don’t recall any lines in a Bible that states such a stupid claim Keep reading... BTW: 100 characters was not enough to explain it wholly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 If you do not beleive in God, then is it neccasarily true that you beleive in evolution? if not then how do you explain our being as we are? Let me turn the tables around and ask you this ... if you do believe in God, does it mean that you categorically reject evolution? Let's not even go to evolution ... do you reject the existence of dinosaurs? If you don't then how do you explain that there is strong evidence of life having existed on earth waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before the first human ever was thrown out of the garden of eden? Why did the dinosaurs disappear? Did God make a mistake? Did God get bored of them? God didn't make them in the first place? What? If you do believe in God, do you necessarily reject all these questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Let me turn the tables around and ask you this ... if you do believe in God, does it mean that you categorically reject evolution? This was exactly my point. Evolution is such a beautiful concept, it is order arising from disorder all by itself(I know that TB eyes are fixed here since i have used the word order ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Another note, I really fail to see why some theists are threatned by evolution, it does not support the atheistic theses against the theistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Another note, I really fail to see why some theists are threatned by evolution, it does not support the atheistic theses against the theistic. OK Domino, stop relating atheism vs. evolution vs. theism For the 3rd time allready. Sephan, why dont you answer my question first? And, if you know anything about God and if you have read the Bible you would understand the answers to your questions... Its very very simple.. i wont waist my breath anymore.. you guys will only hate... (say what you want to my remark of you hating.. its true) ALSO!!!! do you have any idea what your are basing your questions on? your basing them on a theoretical way of age defining... carbon dating is screwed up, and evolution as it is depcited today where we have evolved from bacteria like organism to monkeys to apes to humans... then i have to say that yes.. If you beleive in the God as described in the Bible, then you cannot beleive in this, if you beleive in both, you are only fooling yourself.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Gevo, I really fail to see your point here. It is obvious that any atheist on this board will tell he believe in evolution and even the large majority of theists. The correlation between the belief in evolution and atheism is only slighly higher than the correlation that could be found between the belief in evolution and theism. For that reason I really find your question irrelevent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Sephan, why dont you answer my question first? Your question was towards atheists. I can't answer for them but if I had to guess, I don't think being atheist necessarily means you accept evolution. I do not believe in God but I am not firm in that belief. I just don't see any reason yet to believe such ... so Domino has labeled me "agnostic" or now "fadixian". I do think evolution is a very plausible explanation about how we have ended up here. To be even more clear, I find the evolution explanations to be MUCH more satisfactory to me than the biblical explanations of how we came to be. Hope that answered your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 To be even more clear, I find the evolution explanations to be MUCH more satisfactory to me than the biblical explanations of how we came to be. Hope that answered your question. Which part? and thx for your answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Which part? and thx for your answer Which part? Gevo, the Bible is the mirror of the reader, it can say anything the believer want to believe. The important here is what you believe in. Belief is an individual thing, your truth is not necessarly the truth of another person, unless this truth is part of the few certainties that exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Which part? The part about God actively influencing everything. At this point, I am fairly certain I have free choice ... in other words, God is not dictating each and every one of my actions. Even the ultra ultra ultra-religious will confirm this! After all, that's how their entire "heaven and hell" afterlife story works ... that is if we have some choices of our own to make in life. So having said that, what I am not sure about is who or what set everything in motion ... maybe "God" did ... maybe some other force did. Who knows ... we will never know. But what I do believe is right now there is no God influencing things ... there are certain fundamental laws in the universe around which everything is happening ... gravity, electro magnetism, etc In the end, what it comes down to is this ... all this God talk is completely irrelevant to anything going on in our lives. Things have been set in motion for whatever reason. Now it is up to us to live our lives. Whether we believe in God or don't believe in God or the "higher level of existence" etc etc is completely irrelevant to anything that is going on in our reality. I believe we humans are in control of ourselves and should stop trying to look for things to blame things on. Oh God wanted this ... oh God wanted that ... oh may God do this and that ... NO. Take your life into your own hands and be responsible as an active, thinking, living agent in the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Sip, do you really have free choice? Right now, you want to kick me, but you can't. Joke aside, consciousness is what has put things in motion. Consciousness is the manifestation of the interaction between the observer and the observed. Consciousness is what creats reality... without it, there is nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 "we will never know." This was non-scientific from your part. Never say never... There is only one "never" allowed in this universe. Turkey will never recognise the Armenian genocide. All other "nevers" are only asumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Gevo, the Bible is the mirror of the reader, it can say anything the believer want to believe. One cannot put enough emphasis on the word "WRONG" in reponse to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 ... This was non-scientific from your part. Never say never... Well, goes to show you no one is perfect But you are right about my free choice to wanting to kick your ass!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 SEPHAN!! I SUGGEST TO YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE.. IF YOU WANT TO DEBATE AGAINST GOD AND THE BIBLE (INTERELATED) THEN YOU MUST KNOW WHAT IS ASKED BY HIM AND WHAT HE IS Where do you come up with God dictating what you do? thats very ignorent and im sorry but stupid to say also.. (dont get offended) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Gevo, I really fail to see your point here. I really find your question irrelevent. then either your incredibly stupid or incredbly smart..... my question is not irrelevant, it seems you dont want to answer it.. but then again you admit to my theory to be corect.. most atheists beleive in evolution.. and i dont know which theists you takl to that you think they beleive in evolution.. that can not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 SEPHAN!! I SUGGEST TO YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE.. IF YOU WANT TO DEBATE AGAINST GOD AND THE BIBLE (INTERELATED) THEN YOU MUST KNOW WHAT IS ASKED BY HIM AND WHAT HE IS Enlighten us .. what is asked by him? And remeber, a good Christian is not supposed to get angry. That's God's job. That much I do know about the bible. So calm down please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Enlighten us .. what is asked by him? And remeber, a good Christian is not supposed to get angry. That's God's job. That much I do know about the bible. So calm down please. simply put the ten commandments is a simple way to start with that.. if you understand thos (not completely abide to them) if you atleast understand why and what each commandment is.. then you can ask more detailed questions... God has given us perfect self will... its very simple.. no matter what your situation.. you will have a choice.. never will you be limited to only one door... thats exactly whyt we are in the position we are in right now.. intstead of eden! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 God has given us perfect self will... its very simple.. no matter what your situation.. you will have a choice.. never will you be limited to only one door... That's exactly where everything you stand for falls apart. If God is the almighty power that put heaven and earth in place and created time, man, and everything else, then WHY would he bother with "free will" ??? Wouldn't he already know everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen? Your super-powerful God is the main reason why your creationsim theory falls apart as well. I am basically done beating this dead horse as I have found there is no point in trying to rationally discuss anything with those who are irrational to begin with. The playing field is not level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 By the way, I have no problem with the ten commandments. They make a lot of sense as a good way to lead one's life. I don't see how that has anything to do with "God" as it is quite clear anyone with a mild level of intelligence could have come up with a similar moral rule set (if not exactly the same). Similar moral rules existed much before Christianity so I don't think the Christian God who showed up only 2000 years ago should get credit for those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 I have a very good friend who is evangelical (charismatic) Christian (and - as an aside - he professes that he has space for me and my family in his super deluxe bomb shelter for when the end times come!..lol ...and he and his wife - well they are alwasy praying for me...lol - for which I always thank them...anyway) - but I remember shortly after we had met - and I had confronted him and stated - "your a Christian - aren't you?" (and by that I meant a true/real Christian [thogh of course this is the crux of the matter isn;t it..just what is such...and who can agree?] - well what I meant is that I could see the Christian virtue and belief in his heart and in his actions (and he had never to that point stateted to me or around me that he was a believer)....he said yes - and so this of course started off a long (and in many ways continueing) conversation....where I recall one of the first things i said to him was that I really would have no problems with Christians...if it weren't for them being so caught up/serious in all this bible stuff...well he understood...but he was really caught up in such...yet, for the cvast part - I have no problems with him..and we became fast friends - respectful of one another (he always says that I remind hi of his older brother...an ex-hippie...and still non-believeing atheist).....anyway....yeah...oh and BTW - I have read the Bible (old & new) extensively...mutiple times (again gevo - certainly before you were ever born...I have been a Young Life Crusadewr [OK briefly...but still maintina some friends dfrom then...]...and I've also read many other religious texts...openly - with open mind..and they all fill me with wonder (adn sometimes dread)...no one can know all things - and yes it is important that we know of and apreciate as much as possible before we decide to reject or embrace...and we alwasy need to keep an open mind...and don't be so certain that because you believe certain things that you have necessarily got it right....and while I may sound as though I believe such (about my own beliefs...) - and yeah OK - I feel pretty confident in them...LOL....I still feel that I am essentially open (and more so then you might believe)...and much of the positions I take here are in response to the certitudes and inflexibility I see from some others....OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 then either your incredibly stupid or incredbly smart..... my question is not irrelevant, it seems you dont want to answer it.. but then again you admit to my theory to be corect.. most atheists beleive in evolution.. and i dont know which theists you takl to that you think they beleive in evolution.. that can not be. Armat is a theist, Sasun is a theist. And I do believe they accept evolution. As for answering your question, it does not concern me, as I am not an atheist. And I repeat, and double repeat, your question was irrelevent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 (edited) One cannot put enough emphasis on the word "WRONG" in reponse to this Gevo, the Bible has been writen in human language, with human words... therefore is subject to interpretation, and interpretation depend on the reader. This like it or not. But it does not mean again that it is wrong, it only means that any such work is only a mirror of ones belief. What is important is what you believe in... that is all. Edited April 14, 2004 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 So in all and what Domino expressed, what do you think people, my XI commandment? If everybody would adopt and practice that wouldn’t we have a much better world? What if people of this world would take the preaching’s of all holly scriptures combine it with Darwinism/evolution, and come up with a new movement/religion if you will, we are all part of this wonderful thing we call life, creation and evolution, I ask you all. Would we be better off with fait in all, rather then agonizing proof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 So in all and what Domino expressed, what do you think people, my XI commandment? If everybody would adopt and practice that wouldn’t we have a much better world? What if people of this world would take the preaching’s of all holly scriptures combine it with Darwinism/evolution, and come up with a new movement/religion if you will, we are all part of this wonderful thing we call life, creation and evolution, I ask you all. Would we be better off with fait in all, rather then agonizing proof? Yep, Actually looky here. http://www.swcp.com/~hswift/swc/Essays/bio.html Evolution can be as magical as the existance of an Adam and an Eve for instance. This essay in question is very interesting... nothing new as those essays in that site are about the same thing the author says in his book(I already reffered to the book in the past to hyebruin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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