Interesting Solution

[Sasun]

On the first point - you have given a good argument against erasing posts. How can we know what someone is like if all the evidence has been removed.

 

On the second point - you have admited what I wrote was true - you are threatening to ban someone not because of stuff he had posted, but because of your personal opinion of that person and his possible motives. A moderator shouldn't do that, it has to be done on hard evidence.

Steve, even if we gave you more evidence you might still argue that there is not enough evidence

 

I am not threatening to ban for the sake of threatening. I am just saying what might happen so that it is clear and transparent.

There is no lack of evidence, the evidence is in this thread and in other threads. If you only read a few of his posts you may not think they are that bad. I didn't think they were that bad in the beginning. As the person posts more and more of the hidden racist stuff an agenda becomes clear. There are also other leads which I will not mention, you just have to take my word if you will.

And as for erasing posts, when something bad is posted we just erase it. I am not sure if we have to keep track of all erased posts and bring them back for evidence. That's a lot of work.

[Sasun]

Anyway - I think the only reason anyone should be banned is if they are physically disrupting the forum, such as posting off topic stuff, or just spamming stuff or writing in CAPITALS all the time, or posting too many pictures that take ages to load, or are always writing like they are texting, and so on.

I have had a similar liberal attitude in the past.

[DominO123]

I don't know what you mean by that.

 

P.S. thanks for the support, I will buy you a candy

Well what I mean is that race is a social construct it has no scientific bases... We are all Homo Sapiens sapiens, there was once another human races, the Homo Sapiens Neanthertalis. Blacks, whites, yellows etc... are all Homo Sapiens sapiens, of the sapiens race.

[Sasun]

Well what I mean is that race is a social construct it has no scientific bases... We are all Homo Sapiens sapiens, there was once another human races, the Homo Sapiens Neanthertalis. Blacks, whites, yellows etc... are all Homo Sapiens sapiens, of the sapiens race.

Well, 'race' is often used not scientifically, and I agree that we are all the same humans. It depends on how people define it, sometimes we hear "Armenian race" which is absurd. What is next, "eastern Armenian race" or "western Armenian race"?

 

If I am not mistaken, some recent genetic research has shown that there could be more genetic differences between 2 individuals of the same race than between different races ("race" defined as white,black, etc).

[DominO123]

If I am not mistaken, some recent genetic research has shown that there could be more genetic differences between 2 individuals of the same race than between different races ("race" defined as white,black, etc).

No, you are not mistaken.

 

 

 

 

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[gevo27]

I want Armenians to stay ARMENIAN. wont hurt to mix a lil with the white folk.

This makes no sense, and contradicts itself before you even complete the sentence.. lol....

[StealthSwine]

Armenians were once white, some still are....but after years of caucasian wars, arab and mongol invaders...we lost a lot of it.

 

So we should consider getting it back...

[GuitARA]

...

 

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Message edited due to lack of any meaningful content. --Sip

[GuitARA]

This is a typical racist false argument. The Creator also created us without any knowledge. We go to school to get education. We were created withoug clothes, we put clothes on. We do zillion of things that we were not created like. There is no point in such arguments. This is my personal opinion.

 

 

Now Guitara, I will speak as a moderator: this forum doesn't allow racism, read the code of conduct if you have not done yet. Make up your mind, if you want to stay then you shouldn't post more racist and insulting posts even if racism is hidden. We are not fools here, we do understand your true intentions.

If you don't like the way it is here then maybe you should leave the forum. For now you get a warning.

Sasun jan, to YOU, I apologize. I wll respect YOUR wishes.

 

EDIT: just for the record ... my "true intentions" are and always have been for the good of Armenia and the Hye people. If my intentions were ANYTHING otherwise, believe you'd know it. I have nothing to hide, especially my deep love for our people and our homeland.

Edited March 25, 2004 by GuitARA

[Vigil]

This is a naive statement that has so many years of history, corruption, domination and treachary on top of it that i'm suprised that a seemingly 'smart' person like yourself would even say this?

 

Why is it naive? Why do you assume I am trying to insult African-Americans? That is why in the recent U.S. Census almost 25% of African-Americans were in poverty? Why is then that African-Americans are one of the largest if not the largest minorities in America, but yet their has never been a black president while their is roughly about 6 million Americans of Jewish decent that have already tried to push for a Jewish president in this years democratic primary? In your opinion what is American? Do you consider your fellow Mexican or Armenian a American? What about Asians? Irish? Jews?

 

The only American, who is a true native of this continent, is the Native American. My comment has nothing to do with race so please do not pull out the race card. I just do not want Armenians to lose their identity like African-Americans and have to be forced into accepting a fake nationalism.

 

In America there is only the colonizer and the colonized.

 

I mean come on. The Black Diaspora is of course connected to it's origin but the manner in which we were forcibly removed, many of us brain washed while Africa has/is/continues to be raped by european nations is far too complex for you to make a silly comment like this?

 

How am I making it complex? Africans were brought here, used, raped, and sold. Do you consider "P-Diddy", "Russel Simmons", or anyone of those hip-hop moguls part of this diaspora? I certainly do not mainly because they expliot their own kind for quick bucks. How many times do you hear the word "nigga" in their lyrics? I have never seen anyone of these so-called "gangstas" ever go back to the hood they come from and I presume it is because they are above that now?

 

I mean black people of America while many love and look towards our ancient homeland, obviously have a lot of work to do here first, before we can 'save' Africa. The concept of diasporic peoples saving their homeland is a great one, but it isn't as easy as you made is seem here.

 

Why is the concept such a hard one to acheive? My original point was that lets not become like African-Americans because if we do it is obvious we will lose our identity outside our homeland.

 

If that's the case, then why you have Hyes following stupid blacks when...

 

You do know the quote that I used above was explaining the relationship between black men and women during the height of the civil rights movement? Black men instead of embracing their own kind and moving up on the social ladder instead craved white women to point of calling the white women involved in the civil rights movement racist if they refused to have sexual intercourse with them. With that said my only point again is that I do not want the same sitution to arise in my community.

 

As much as Armenians or the white race tries to be black today blacks historically have always tried to be white. Black men felt that it was a prize to be with a white women and white women thought black men were exotic. That is why some of lynchings in the south were conducted. White men thought that their wives were having affairs wth black men, which in most cases was true. Do I think that anyone, outside of African-Americans, that dress like a hip-hop star are silly? Yes, but I also think it is equally worse if not more tragic when these so called "gangsta rappers" make money by exploiting their fellow "brothas".

 

I never called Africans "stupid" and perhaps you misunderstood me. Do I think that some races or ethnicities are better then others? No, ofcourse not, however, I feel that people, who come from a similar background that work together, acheive more in a group rather than individually. This is evident in the acheivements of the Armenian lobby, who is underfunded, understaffed, and is a non-profit orgnationation, but yet is the second biggest lobby in America.

 

When they could be saving the ROA from political corruption and women being forced into prostitution? I mean come on now.

 

Listen, every nation today has its share of problems. Just recently there was a BBC article on the massive increase in the difference between the upper and lower income brackets. Armenia for being a nation comprised of 3 million and being 10 years old is fareing much better than older developing nations. You can not compare Armenias situation to any other country because it is a sensitive case. Armenia is landlocked, has no resources, and was not given its rightful share during the break up of Soviet Union. Many of the other countries would be much worse if they were in Armenians position, but yet Armenians survive because we historically have worked together and it is not until the recent 2 or 3 years that the diaspora has become a bit less invovled.

 

The prostitution in Armenian is expected like in many other countries. In America there is prostitution is there not? Tell me one country that is whore free? About you stating that it is forced is kind of a low blow and offending because any type of prostitution is forced upon men and women due to economic conditions. So let me get this straight you think in America the pimp is around the prostitute to protect her, rather than beat her?

 

It is a weak argument to use as a rebuttal due to the fact that historically prostitution has and always will exist. An example is the forced prostitution of Asians and Europeans captured by the Japanese during WW2. In fact the Japanese created a hierarchy in which Europeans were reserved as a prize for commanding officers, while Koreans were kept for feild soilders.

 

Rather what is tragic is the men that exploit these women. It is one thing to be born into a lifestyle of a prostitute, but it is another thing to actually be the exploiter. An example is the present U.S. Military Bases abroad. All of these bases have a prositution network set up to service the "good old boys". Another example is Europeans that go to Bangkok or Cambodia to satisfy their sexual fetish of screwing 8 year olds. Lets not forget the good old Turkish, who abuse and sleep with Russian prostitutes more than their wives.

 

It is men like yourself that give men like me a bad name. Women through out time have been used as psychological weapons. During any war women are raped as a symbol of domination over the enemy and prostitution is no exception. Prostitution is neither bad nor good, but rather is a tragic lifestyle that some must experience.

 

Also for those of you who did not have the self respect to defend Armenian women from such a devestating attack due to your own insecurities and the fear that your own "reputation" would be at stake is tragic.

 

The thread was talking about a dislike for wannabe, gangter armenians and the ill conceived attempts to follow the negative aspects of hiphop culture. Which I think we agree on, but it has become a veiled discussion of a different ilk. By which I'm not too suprised, but such is Life.

 

I made it clear in my post that this was not about racial supremacy, but rather the Armenian community not becoming part of the colonized.

 

Yes, at some point race is soically constructed, but to a certain what defines you is your outer characteristic. This is evident in the fact that you can never call a black man asian and a asian man black.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil

[Sasun]

Sasun jan, to YOU, I apologize. I wll respect YOUR wishes.

 

EDIT: just for the record ... my "true intentions" are and always have been for the good of Armenia and the Hye people. If my intentions were ANYTHING otherwise, believe you'd know it. I have nothing to hide, especially my deep love for our people and our homeland.

I don't know why you are apologizing to me personally since there was nothing personal that you had said to me (unless I have missed something). For what it's worth, I accept your apology since you have said it.

I wish that you felt equally responsible and honest to everyone in this forum. There seems to be a big contradiction in your actions and words. Do you agree that gossiping and badmouthing people behind their back is not befitting a decent individual and a good Armenian. For details on what I mean check your PM.

[gurgen]

Well, 'race' is often used not scientifically, and I agree that we are all the same humans. It depends on how people define it, sometimes we hear "Armenian race" which is absurd. What is next, "eastern Armenian race" or "western Armenian race"?

 

If I am not mistaken, some recent genetic research has shown that there could be more genetic differences between 2 individuals of the same race than between different races ("race" defined as white,black, etc).

You are right.

 

It is now false to speak of race, because all the 'races' we speak of today (e.g. Caucasian) are so mixed with others that the concept race has become extinct.

 

As far as I'm concerned there are only people from different heritages/countries.

[GuitARA]

I don't know why you are apologizing to me personally since there was nothing personal that you had said to me (unless I have missed something). For what it's worth, I accept your apology since you have said it.

I wish that you felt equally responsible and honest to everyone in this forum. There seems to be a big contradiction in your actions and words. Do you agree that gossiping and badmouthing people behind their back is not befitting a decent individual and a good Armenian. For details on what I mean check your PM.

I never went behind ANYONE'S back, As you noticed I used the same nick there at 'Armenian forum' as I did here, deliberetly. I was very well aware that the people who post here also read the posts at 'Armenian Forum', for this reason I used the same nick, so people KNEW that it was me.

 

I figured it would not be right to embarrass anyone here, I did however feel it was quite appropriate to express my feelings about the politics of this forum. This is what I did. I WANTED for the people here to know it was me. I would not lie or decieve anyone. I do NOT lie. Period.

Any other agenda you seem to believe I had is simply false !

I posted things that I believe in, I wrote things that I believe in. I stand by it 100 percent.

 

Again, if this was my TRUE INTENTION, (to gossip) don't you think I would have tried to disguise myself ? I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE ... FROM ANYONE. TO the contrary, I go out of my way to express my TRUE INTENTIONS.

 

Btw, as someone who seemd to me to be a respectable person, I showed YOU respect by apologizing to you, for apparently not following the rules of your "forum". Thiss is the reason for my apology.

 

I make NO apologies for anything I posted or any feelings that I expressed.

[Sip]

I never went behind ANYONE'S back, As you noticed I used the same nick there at 'Armenian forum' as I did here, deliberetly. I was very well aware that the people who post here also read the posts at 'Armenian Forum', for this reason I used the same nick, so people KNEW that it was me.

 

...

 

I make NO apologies for anything I posted or any feelings that I expressed.

 

Well, then in that case Guitara, consider yourself suspended indefinitely. So far no action was taken because you seemed to be respecting the rules we have here. But since you are saying you meant all of those things you have said in other places and it doesn't make a difference to you (i.e. if you weren't talking "behind anyone's back" then that's the same as saying it in their face), as of now you are suspended for being extremeley rude, abusive, and harassing towards some of the members and the moderators here.

[hyebruin]

Buren jan - i will send a Pm to you soon janik

Movses

[gevo27]

OHHHH FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANITY