Is Hitler's statement true?

[gurgen]

I think I speak for all of us when I say:

 

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Pic removed. Gurgen please watch the language you post. --Sip

[Anonymouse]

I don't care, but it won't be good for those for they will suffer the leprechauns wrath!

[DominO123]

How can you use a quote from Hitler to 'prove' the genocide?

 

That's right, you can't really.

 

It is relevant because it shows something about the learning from genocide and the importance of it. If you can prove it or not does not matter. I firmly believe Hitler had the Armenian genocide in his head when he planned the Holocaust.

No! He had not.

 

People fail to understand what "who remember the extermination of the Armenians" meant, I tried to clarify this, but it seems that the most important part of my quote has been ignored.

 

Hitler didn't care regarding if people remembered what was done to the Armenians, he could care less of it, neither his soldiers to the door of Poland waiting to be invaded. Hitlers quote was not "who remember the extermination of the Armenians" BUT "remember the extermination of the Armenians." (the "who" does not refer to the forgetting, as in don't “remember")So the claim that Hitler referred that the Armenian genocide was forgotten, so as people will forget the Soah is highly inaccurate.

 

Hitler quote is about success... on the steps of the invasion of Poland, Hitler start out his rhetoric of power and success, SUCCESS!!! IS THE MAIN POINT HERE. What Hitler is mainly saying is that in order to succeed man can do whatever he wants, and if he succeed at accomplishing what he did, people will forget(as in "Ignore" and not as “don’t remember”) the dark sides of the revolution, will forget the deaths, will forget the crimes... because Success is what passes before everything and history will record this success no matter the way it was accomplished.

 

This is what the "who remember the Armenians" really means... if we interpret it the way it should be and we re-read Hitlerian rhetoric’s and go back to the 1931.

 

"...Are we really to remain as a nation of have-nots for ever? Why should not the sources of raw materials be equitably distributed? We save the capacity to rouse and lead the masses against this situation. In the long term ought Germany to be ground down economically? Everywhere there is discontent. Everywhere people are awaiting a new world order. We intend to introduce a great resettlement policy; we do not wish to go on treading each other's toes in Germany. In 1923 little Greece could re-settle a million men. Think of the biblical deportations and the massacres of the Middle Ages and remember the eradication of Armenia. One eventually reaches the conclusion that masses of men are mere biological plasticine. We will not allow ourselves to be turned into niggers as the French tried to do after 1918. The nordic blood available in England, northern France and North America will eventually go with us to reorganize the world. The discontent in their own home countries and in their colonies will leave them no choice."

 

If we compare and have the right interpretation we could realise that not only it was a Hitlerian rhetoric and style, but as well it is unlikely that something such as this could have been forged for various reasons such as the fact that a near identical ending of a Hitlerian speech when exposing the exact same ideal was made 8 years prior to the one that is put to dough here... and that the interview was retraced by Edourd Calic archival research, which during the time "remember the extermination of the Armenians" was not available(the interview of 1931), so the Canaris story hold like Iron... because no one knew about the previous interview.

 

Another note here, this "who remember..." stuff has nothing to do with the Soah, I fail to see why it is linked with it, and it is about the invasion of Poland and the destruction of the Polish national.

 

Now, lets repost a part of what Edward posted, BTW, there is a more full version up there, I will be posting it later, it is important because it gives more clue regarding Hitlerian success rhetoric.

 

"Our strength consists in our speed and in our brutality. Genghis Khan led millions of women and children to slaughter — with premeditation and a happy heart. History sees in him solely the founder of a state. It's a matter of indifference to me what a weak western European civilization will say about me.

 

I have issued the command — and I'll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad — that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formations in readiness — for the present only in the East — with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?"

 

Another note regarding Hitlers quote, those that claim that the “who remember the extermination of the Armenians.” Is not found in the original version are mixing three possible repeated Hitlerian speeches, or at least two. One has to read Nuremberg exposition of those versions to see the indication that there was at the very least two different Hitlerian speeches given the same day, and the second copy of it, the “who remember the extermination of the Armenians” is not present. Was probably taken off in order to match the third one which was actually a different speech. I am surprised here that Steve who likes to do a meticulous research before giving a conclusion has ignored this fact.

 

To bring further evidences for this presented fact, I will make a basic analysis of the three presented exhibition files during the Nuremberg concerning Hitlers speech.

 

The three exhibition files were.

 

USA-28(the famous L-3)

USA-29

USA-30

 

The variation of the USA-29 and USA-30, were nearly identical, while USA-28 was different, not only with the ending where we found out “who remember the extermination of the Armenians.” But as well, the rest of the text was different in its wordings.

 

What does that mean? Actually, it is clear, what this means, more clear it is, when on the USA-30, we read: “Second Speech by the Fuhrer on August 22, 1939.” The USA-29 and USA-30 were copies of the same speech, the USA-28 was placed as the first speech of the same date.

 

To somme that up, the versions where the sentence regarding the Armenians were not included were not the same speech, the other variants where the rest of the text was identical, the Armenian part was removed to imitate the second speech from individuals that had no clue of the reason why the Armenian quote was there… but it was there… More ground to this was given, when Professor Gerhard L. Weinberg from the University of North Carolina wrote in his book: “The Foreign Policy of Hitler’s Germany: Starting World War II, 1937-39 reports that this first speech in question(AKA L-3(USA-28)) was obtained by the British Ambassador to Berlin, Neville Henderson, on August 25 and that there is a ribbon copy in his own papers which could be found in the Public Record Office at Kew. In Vol. VII (1954) of the official series Documents of the British Foreign Policy, 1919-1939.

 

As I said, there is little dough on the authenticity of Hitlers speech, the claims that it is a forgery fall short, and I believe that the few evidences I provide here are enough to show in fact that the Hitlerian speeches regarding the Armenians is genuine. The claims that on the other versions the Armenians were not included are based on the fact that there was at least two speeches given the same day by Hitler regarding the invasion of Poland, and that the first speeches included the Armenians, another one which was translated two times and presented as to Second Speeches documents(named USA-29 and USA-30). Another version which took off the Armenian part to imitate the other version by someone which had no clue of the two different versions. And lastly, the first speech could really be found at the reference from the British foreign archives I presented here in my post.

 

If this is not enough evidences to support my claim of authenticity, I could provide further evidences by bringing other Hitlerian references regarding Ataturk Republic and the rhetoric of success which undoubly show us that “who remember the extermination of the Armenians” was too much Hitlerian to be a forgery, and that there was absolutely no reason at all that anyone will include such a thing for any rational reason, and even if someone did it, he would be a specialist of Hitler knowing things and placing a wording and a sense that even many NAZI official ignored about their Furher… something which I really dough was possible.

 

 

Now that I wrote that, and overblown my brain, I will go take a nap if you guys don’t mind.

Edited February 13, 2004 by Fadix

[Anonymouse]

I don't know why Nuremberg is held in such high esteem, particularly when it was a Stalinist type show trial of anything goes by the prosecution. The possibility of mistranslations following the German defeat are real, and in fact, were part of Allied Propaganda. For example, German is a complete language you see, it has words such as Volk for people and Rasse for Race. All throughout the NSDAP the term "Volk" which means people, was translated as "race". Who is lying and why? Furthermore, the internationally respected historian Werner Maser has noted the existence of forged documents. Even Eichman expressed the view after the war that some purported documents used by the IMT are fraudulent. I suggest Werner Maser's "Nuremberg: A Nation On Trial".

[den_wolf]

Wolf no offense but do you know anything about WWI history or what tactics Germany used?

The tactics that Germany used does not make Germany or Germans evil, or the masterminds of such dirty tactics, if you can call it that. Everyone used such tactics at one point or another. That the Turks learned it from Germany is a stupid argument to make, since Germany in turn learned it from another event in history, and all that in turn goes further back into history, until it reaches a point where we can't go back, so it all goes back to the nature of human beings. Germans could've used barbaric tactics, but those tactics were not German in nature per se. Neither are they Turkish. Neither are they Nazist or Fascist. Anyone can use such tactics, and indeed they have been used and are being used to this day. Arguably by non-Germans, who you consider to have been so evil.

[THOTH]

Domino - thank you...cluless in love perhaps..but certain knowledges you certainly possess..

And in fact what you stated is esentially what I have been trying to communicate (more or less) ...successfully or otherwise...

[gurgen]

Everyone used such tactics at one point or another. That the Turks learned it from Germany is a stupid argument to make, since Germany in turn learned it from another event in history

Everyone... very interesting, care to name a few examples?

 

Who did the Germans learn it from then? Do you think it's some infinite loop?

While I am naming examples, I can't seem to note any from you.

'Some other event' or 'some other nation' is not really clear proof is it?

 

Also I don't see why this is a stupid argument, just because Germany learned it from 'another event in history' as you claim does not mean Turks couldn't learn it from the Germans does it?

[gurgen]

Domino - thank you...cluless in love perhaps..but certain knowledges you certainly possess..

And in fact what you stated is esentially what I have been trying to communicate (more or less) ...successfully or otherwise...

This is what I've been trying to say as well but apparently Domino has misunderstood me once again

[bellthecat]

Another note regarding Hitlers quote, those that claim that the “who remember the extermination of the Armenians.” Is not found in the original version are mixing three possible repeated Hitlerian speeches, or at least two. One has to read Nuremberg exposition of those versions to see the indication that there was at the very least two different Hitlerian speeches given the same day, and the second copy of it, the “who remember the extermination of the Armenians” is not present. Was probably taken off in order to match the third one which was actually a different speech. I am surprised here that Steve who likes to do a meticulous research before giving a conclusion has ignored this fact.

 

To bring further evidences for this presented fact, I will make a basic analysis of the three presented exhibition files during the Nuremberg concerning Hitlers speech.

 

The three exhibition files were.

 

USA-28(the famous L-3)

USA-29

USA-30

If the "Hitler statement" did exist, and it was genuine, then I would entirely agree with your interpretation of its meaning, Domino.

 

But I have yet to see proper evidence that it does. It is not a "proven proof" by any standards. Proper evidence would be a document from 1939 containing Hitler's words (even if only a second-hand report of them) - and not a paragraph taken from a wartime propaganda book. If the original document on which the "usa-28" document was based on really does exist, in a public collection, and it dates from 1939, then why has it never been produced?

 

Steve