gurgen Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Maybe you haven't heard of these people called Zionists? Yea um these Jews hate you for being a goy. Maybe you didn't see the word 'necessarily' in my reply? Like I said, if Armenians want to turn the tides, have everyone emigrate back to Armenia, grow in numbers, and take back what was theirs by force. If not, then there is no point. Israel was established by force. History has shown that might is right. The peaceful way to things never solved anything. Working "within the system" only gets you a closed door. But then again, how many Armenians are willing to leave the nice material life they have in the diaspora and go back to Armenia? You have a point in your last sentence. An Armenian army? 75% Of the Diaspora Armenians are pure sell-outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hey A-Mouse AKA "Armenian Mouse," Armenians who want to see Armenians move back to our lands on what is now Eastern Turkey can be lableled "Armenian Zionists." Get off the Jews. Many are working on our behalf. Just because the Neo-Cons allied with Bush are working against us does not mean all Jews are. You give strength to Perle, Wolfowitz and the other bastards working with Bush. Your comments turn Jews against us. Please watch what you write. This is America and not Damascus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Armenians who want to see Armenians move back to our lands on what is now Eastern Turkey can be lableled "Armenian Zionists." what are you talking about --- if one wants their lands returned, how else could they be returned to Armenians if Armenians are unwilling to live on them? it's only logical. if you demand something, you must accept it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Dan, You have a North American bias. You are comfortable where you are. There are many Armenians living in Armenia, Syria, part of the former Soviet Union, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Israel, etc. who would want to move back to Armenian lands. I live in the South Pacific on an idyllic island. No, I don't want to freeze in the Armenian plateau. But I realize that there are others who would move there. I know professional people who have moved to Yerevan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hey A-Mouse AKA "Armenian Mouse," Armenians who want to see Armenians move back to our lands on what is now Eastern Turkey can be lableled "Armenian Zionists." Get off the Jews. Many are working on our behalf. Just because the Neo-Cons allied with Bush are working against us does not mean all Jews are. You give strength to Perle, Wolfowitz and the other bastards working with Bush. Your comments turn Jews against us. Please watch what you write. This is America and not Damascus. Take a chill pill and lighten up. I'll not "get off" Jews, because I wasn't on them to begin with. Now if you stop listening to media soundbytes and what the newsmen have said about Zionists and Israel maybe you'll see something else. After all, it is Israel and the Holocaust Museum and Washington which denied the Armenian Genocide. Now about that chill pill... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Dan, You have a North American bias. You are comfortable where you are. There are many Armenians living in Armenia, Syria, part of the former Soviet Union, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Israel, etc. who would want to move back to Armenian lands. I live in the South Pacific on an idyllic island. No, I don't want to freeze in the Armenian plateau. But I realize that there are others who would move there. I know professional people who have moved to Yerevan. Well, what's your point? If you can't tell a difference between Zionists and Jews, and try to make me out like I'm some kind of dirty "anti-Semite" then you need to re read some stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 (edited) Dan, You have a North American bias. You are comfortable where you are. There are many Armenians living in Armenia, Syria, part of the former Soviet Union, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Israel, etc. who would want to move back to Armenian lands. I live in the South Pacific on an idyllic island. No, I don't want to freeze in the Armenian plateau. But I realize that there are others who would move there. I know professional people who have moved to Yerevan. Please.. America-Hye, are you telling me that Armenians in Lebanon want to go back to Armenia...? Get real!!! I've lived in Lebanon for years, and I can tell you that is not true!!!! The majority of Armenians in Lebanon are applying for immigration to the States and/or Canada!!! If there are 30,000 Armenians living in Beirut right now, there are probably only a 100 who would be willing to go to Armenia or the returned lands... Professional people have moved to Armenia because they can do business there!!!! Not your average skilled worker who lived in Lebanon on a low income (probably as low as in Armenia) -- the change in currency only benefits them so much if they go to Armenia, unlike those professional men who have U.S dollar and higher living standards.. btw, mouse, no need to get all "angry" for being called an anti-semite. i've been called that god knows how many times. i've become way too numb to it. keep on repeating it, folks, it means nothing to me anymore. Edited February 1, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Things would change very fast if Armenia had a booming economy. If the standard of living in Armenia rose, many would be willing to live there. It is like my ex-wife, who walked out of the house we eventually bought adjacent to a golf course. The elderly couple who owned it smoked and had a dog. It had not been remodeled for many years. I saw it's possibilities. She made me miserable at first. After removing the stinky rugs and refinishing the beautiful hardwood floors beneath and putting in new electrical systems and landcaping, the house became a showplace. When we got divorced,she didn't want to leave the house, she loved it. Look at the beautiful hotels that that rug-wning couple have built or remodeled in Armenia. Why do so many of you have no imagination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Stop the fixation on Jews. Working with them will be beneficial to us. What have the Arabs have to offer but oil and suicide bombers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 (edited) Stop the fixation on Jews. Working with them will be beneficial to us. What have the Arabs have to offer but oil and suicide bombers? please. working with jews? thank you very much, but NO!!!! Ditto for Arabs or anyone else for that matter. Because even the best allies are doing nothing other than acting. Just like the Brits, just like the Americans during the genocide. What -- they pretended not to know. Sure, I believe them... But when it came down to auschwitz, the whole world "knew" about it. huh? NO thanks, I'd rather do things on my own than rely on jews. i have no intention of turning the Armenian genocide into an industry of collecting money and shoving the word "genocide" in everyone's face, like it's some sort of carte-blanche. and if it ever comes down to lowering our ancestors' memory to the level of money and building a big all-Armenian country like the zionists are trying to do with their "birth-right israel" campaigns, i would sooner denounce my Armenian background than follow the herd. Edited February 1, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Well Dan I guess its easy being ignorant when you are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Stop the fixation on Jews. Working with them will be beneficial to us. What have the Arabs have to offer but oil and suicide bombers? Zionists work with no one. Neither should you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Well Dan I guess its easy being ignorant when you are... Ignorant? How am I ignorant? Thoth, with all due respect (sometimes you do raise some valid points), but you can't accuse someone of ignorance without saying why you think so. Because then your position would be null and void. As is the case right now. So jump into the discussion if you feel like it, and tell me why you think I'm ignorant, without giving me that "you live in your parent's basement" sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I have close friends, even family members who are Zionists. Many have gone to Israel to work in a Kibbutz. I even considered at one time to go with them to Tiberias and work on a Kibbutz, even though I am not Jewish. Well Dan, so much for the Armenians here stereotyping Gay people. I am now in a committed heterosexual relationship. Plus, we couldn't be more divergent on the other issues being discussed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I have close friends, even family members who are Zionists. Many have gone to Israel to work in a Kibbutz. I even considered at one time to go with them to Tiberias and work on a Kibbutz, even though I am not Jewish. Well Dan, so much for the Armenians here stereotyping Gay people. I am now in a committed heterosexual relationship. Plus, we couldn't be more divergent on the other issues being discussed here. The "kibbutzum"? Oh yea those lands that were stolen from the Palestinians? Riiiight, how noble of you to help them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hey Mouse, Why don't you to and march with Arafat? Perhaps you can become a suicide bomber. Go to Israel and you wil see all the Jewish archaeological sites. And you claim that the Jews have NO rights to love there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 (edited) Why don't you to and march with Arafat? Perhaps you can become a suicide bomber. lol... the black and white fallacy yet again. one doesn't have to go and march with arafat if one is against zionism... edit: hey A-H, do you know anything about the false dilemma fallacy that goes something like this: "Either you're for me or against me."? Here's some details about that one: http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/distract/fd.htm Edited February 1, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hey Mouse, Why don't you to and march with Arafat? Perhaps you can become a suicide bomber. Go to Israel and you wil see all the Jewish archaeological sites. And you claim that the Jews have NO rights to love there? Why can you not debate this head on and must resort to childish antics? "Jewish"? "Jewish" is a modern term, the people of ancient Israel were called Judeans, respectively and some practiced the religion of the Pharisees. There were no "Jews". Jew simply means a follower of a religion. In other words, the original Hebrews no longer exist, just like the original people of any group no longer exist. A "State" based on some sort of mythical "identity" is not much a State. "Zionism" was a nationalist ideology that came out of Europe by Europes Jews, influenced at a time when Europeans themselves were building their own nation-states. Furthermore, European Jews are for the bulk a mixture of Khazars, hence "Ashkenazi" and other peoples, and they are pretty "white". Furthermore "Yiddish" is evidence of this different group of people, as they are not Hebrews, but descendents of the Asiatics, and hence they have Yiddish as their language, a combination of Germanic, Slavic and Baltic languages. Now before you display any more ignorance, I suggest you don't justy land claims based on some mythical religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 And it should be noted that Zionism violates traditional Judaism, which states that only the Messiah when he returns can establish the State of Israel hence you have Jews against Zionism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Genetic studies have shown that almost al present-day Jews are genetically tied to some degree to the ancient Hebrews. As with most other peoples there have been admixtures over the centuries. We are also a mixed bag as well. Does that mean that we have no right to the Armenian heartland? As for my suicide bomber comments, what do you think the world sees today as a stereotype for an Arab? George Mitchell, eminent US Senator, or suicide bomber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 As for my suicide bomber comments, what do you think the world sees today as a stereotype for an Arab? George Mitchell, eminent US Senator, or suicide bomber? yes, way to go, A-H... now stereotypes are supposed to be the things that guide our knowledge and lives, huh? Man, no wonder gamavor called you Moshe.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Genetic studies have shown that almost al present-day Jews are genetically tied to some degree to the ancient Hebrews. As with most other peoples there have been admixtures over the centuries. We are also a mixed bag as well. Does that mean that we have no right to the Armenian heartland? As for my suicide bomber comments, what do you think the world sees today as a stereotype for an Arab? George Mitchell, eminent US Senator, or suicide bomber? "Genetic studies" can be tampered with. Observe. ------------------------------------------------- THE MEDIA, THE GENETICS OF RACE, AND THE RACIAL DOUBLE STANDARD By Paul Grubach In May and August of 2000, the American mass media reported upon the results of two major studies of human genetics. What's most interesting about these research projects--and the newspaper accounts that brought them to the public's attention--is that they highlight the hypocritical double standard in regard to the study of race which is so deeply ingrained in the American mainstream media and major segments of the scientific community. In the May 9, 2000, issue of the NEW YORK TIMES (NYT), America's most influential and important newspaper, and in other major media outlets, there were stories about a major study of Jewish genetics. The news accounts emphasized how Jews DIFFER from non-Jews in a genetic sense, and how a DNA-based study found that Jews have maintained their unique genetic identity over the centuries. One big message was perfectly clear--Jews are genetically separate from Gentiles. Commenting upon the study of Jewish genetics published in the PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, (NYT) noted: "The analysis provides genetic witness that these [Jewish] communities have, to a remarkable extent, retained their biological identity separate from their host populations, evidence of relatively little intermarriage or conversion into Judaism over the centuries." 1 Ohio's most important newspaper, the PLAIN DEALER, reported: "After the first major Jewish exile of 586 B.C., when Jews dispersed across Europe and North Africa, Jews largely retained their genetic identity, one that was formed in the Middle East according to the study..." 2 While noting the common biological ancestry of Jews and Arabs, the articles emphasized that Jewish groups from various parts of the world are more similar to each other in a genetic sense than to the Gentile populations they reside next to. But three months later, the mass media and a segment of the scientific community sang quite another tune. The August 22, 2000, issue of NYT carried a prominent story about the Human Genome Project and the idea of "race," which was clearly referring to the traditional categories of Caucasian, Asian, and Black, categories which do not divide the world up into Jews and non-Jews. The title of the articles reveal the message being conveyed. The PLAIN DEALER: "Race No More Than Skin Deep, DNA indicates." 3 The NEW YORK TIMES: "Do Races Differ? Not Really, DNA Shows." 4 That is to say, Whites, Asians and Blacks are not really biologically different--but three months earlier we were told that populations of Jews and non-Jews do in fact differ in a biological sense. The published accounts attempted to show that the Human Genome Project "has demonstrated that the idea of race is meaningless." 5 They contained claims that scientific knowledge accords with the following sentiment: "Regardless of race or creed, we really ARE all kin beneath the skin." 6 Consider this most telling statement: "Scientists have long suspected that the racial categories recognized by society are not reflected at the genetic level. But the more closely that researchers examine the human genome...the more most of them are convinced that the standard labels used to distinguish people by 'race' have little or no biological meaning." 7 Wait one-second! Back in May the American people were told that significant differences between Jews and non-Jews can be found at the genetic level, and the label of "Jew" does in fact have a biological meaning. It was reported on August 22 that scientists at the National Institutes of Health recently announced that they had put together a draft of the entire sequence of the human genome, and the researchers had unanimously declared, there is only one race--the human race. 8 Yet, on May 9 the mass media and a segment of the scientific establishment were telling listeners that Jews and non-Jews are not necessarily of one race, as they are genetically distinct from one another. This is a clear example of ideological bias. When genetic differences are found between Jews and non-Jews, they are interpreted as "meaningful." However, when genetic differences are found between Whites, Blacks or Asians, they are interpreted as "superficial and inconsequential." The subliminal message may be the following. Jews are genetically different from non-Jews and must work to preserve their genetic makeup. However, Whites, Blacks and Asians are really not different from each other; they should all integrate and not be concerned about preserving their genetic identities. Why the double standard in regard to the issue of race? In his classic work on the sociology of knowledge, IDEOLOGY AND UTOPIA, Karl Mannheim noted that in any society a large part of the prevailing ideologies, world-view, and "moral" judgments reflect the sociopolitical interests of that society's power elites and controlling elements. 9 One of the most powerful and influential of these elements in American society is the Jewish political and cultural establishment. 10 Definite forms of social consciousness derive from the fact that the Jewish-Zionist elite possesses the power and authority to impose its values--inclusive of the racial double standard in regard to the race issue--upon the mass media and segments of the scientific community. 11 Most people never think to question these preformed patterns of thought, and thus, remain locked in a dogmatic slumber. When the values and ideological biases of powerful elites act as distorting influences upon the acquisition of scientific knowledge, social and intellectual progress becomes impeded. Let us rid ourselves of this hypocritical double standard in regard to racial issue. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FOOTNOTES 1. NEW YORK TIMES, May 9, 2000. 2. THE PLAIN DEALER (Cleveland), May 10, 2000, p.6-A. 3. THE PLAIN DEALER, August 22, 2000, p.1-A. 4. NEW YORK TIMES, August 22, 2000, pp.D-1. 5. Ibid; THE PLAIN DEALER, August 22, 2000, pp.1-A,8-A. 6. NEW YORK TIMES, August 22, 2000, pp.D-1, D-6. 7. Ibid. 8. Ibid. 9. IDEOLOGY AND UTOPIA (New York: Harcourt, Brace and World, 1936), p.10, passim. 10. The following is a small sample of the many works which document the power and influence of the Jewish political and cultural establishment. J.J. Goldberg, JEWISH POWER; INSIDE THE AMERICAN JEWISH ESTABLISHMENT (Reading, Mass.: Addison-Wesley, 1996; Kevin MacDonald, THE CULTURE OF CRITIQUE: AN EVOLUTIONARY ANALYSIS OF JEWISH INVOLVEMENT IN TWENTIETH-CENTURY INTELLECTUAL AND POLITICAL MOVEMENTS (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger, 1998); Neal Gabler, AN EMPIRE OF THEIR OWN: HOW THE JEWS INVENTED HOLLYWOOD (New York: Crown Publishers, 1988): Paul Findley, THEY DARE TO SPEAK OUT: PEOPLE AND INSTITUTIONS CONFRONT ISRAEL'S LOBBY (Westport, Conn.: Lawrence Hill & Co., 1985). 11. For an excellent discussion of Jewish influence upon the scientific establishment, see Kevin MacDonald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 You have an unnatural fixation on Jews. Get working on Armenian issues and let the Jews and Arabs deal with theirr differences, OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Unfair fixation? Just a healthy questioning of things, which your mind cannot fathom nor comprehend since this is far beyond your level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 (edited) American-Hye your a idealist... Jews and Armenians will never work together because Jews and Turks need one another. Jews and Turks are back to back in their foriegn policy because they have burned their bridges... actually its... Israel + America + Turkey + United Kingdom = True Axis of Evil Israel + Turkey = Death of Armenia Israel + Armenia = Dream I would rather help a Arab/Persian/Middle-Easterner then a Jew mainly because Armenians historically have helped Jews and in fact were allowing them to own property when Europeans were deporting them during the Middle Ages and today they forget who was on their side when they needed somone the most... It is very sad that Turkey tries very hard to prove it has been a "tolerant" towards Jews when... 1492 the SULTAN did not bring Jews for the sake of helping them, but because Turkey was filled with barbaric people with no culture or skills. Just like Armenians they were used only for the fact that they were well eduacted in trade skills and paper work... During WW1 Jews also were going to be the next victims just like during WW2 Armenians could have been victims... The same German officers during the AG were the same ones serving under Hitler... Turkey was the main supplier of chromite to Germany during WW2 and avidently it was fueling the German war machine. In fact their was a big scandel a few years ago because evidently Turkey was suppose to give back 60 million in gold that Germany used to pay for the chromite, but tragically it did not give it back because it claimed that it was not responsible for the actions of Germany. Basically Turkey betrayed Germany when Allies were winning then it betrayed Allies by not returning the gold to the Jews...the allies could not convince Turkey to give back the gold... Turkey killed 800 Romanian Jews in the "SS Struma" incident where a boat full of Jews were sent out to sea because Turkey wanted to remain neutral... I could find many more incidents were Turks have backstabed Jews, but today they ...well actually Turks try their best to befriend Jews because they have no political power in the west...basically Turkey sort of protects Israel from Arab threats and Isreal protects Turkey from legel threats...brains and the braun working together to wipe out Armenians... So please DO NOT EVER TRUST A JEW BECAUSE IN THE END JEWS ARE BEST OF FRIENDS WITH TURKEY AT THIS MOMENT...TO BE HONEST I REALLY DO LIKE TO WORK WITH JEWS, BUT AM FORCED TO BECAUSE IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE YOU ARE LABELED ANTI-SEMETIC... Some JEWS are decent and admit the AG, but in the end they support Turkey in international forums and any supporter of Turkey is my enemy... again remember this formula well... ISREAL + TURKEY = DEATH OF ARMENIA... Sad but true...Armenians will NEVER benefit from working with Jews... Jews will always try to be the sole survivors of the "so-called" Holocaust because we all know it never happend...6 million Jews died because of disease not because of mass extermination...GERMANY was not responsible for their deaths and all deaths were casualties of war... JEWISH WRITER SLAMS JEWS http://www.freedomwriter.com/issue27/wo6.htm SO please do not ever bring the idea that Jews and Armenians are friends because the bottom line is that "actions speak louder then words" and the actions of Jews is very clear its just Armenians are blind... I still do not want to be a racist because some Jews are true humanitarians like the 126 Genocide/Holocaust schalors and some in the Jewish communitee do somtimes help Armenians, but the actions of Israel and the Jewish Lobbies in America places Jews with Turks and because of that we must try to acheive the recognition of the AG by ourselves. Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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