Armat Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 (edited) I think Armenia (and all other countries), need a sane and working political system, one that is not based on practicality and materialism (like "democracy" is), but rather on philosophical and moral values. Teleban and Iranian mullahs also believe in philosophical principles and values and hate democracy! Edited February 11, 2004 by Armat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 I disagree with everything you wrote and it is my impression that it would be a wasted effort to continue this discussion. I disagree with your disagreement, whatever that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Voting and Democracy are based on majoritarianism, meaning might is right, and even "truth" becomes a matter of majorities. It gives leaders an excuse to do what they do. If a leader is elected and is a tyrant... This is incorrect. Electoral systems are in constant development and many countries have adjusted their system to solve the problem of majoritarianism. New Zealand for example (and also Israel if I'm not mistaken) use SNTV (single non transferable vote) electoral system which generates pluralitarian governments (with possible minority rule) and consecutive bargain over a coalition government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted February 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 This is incorrect. Electoral systems are in constant development and many countries have adjusted their system to solve the problem of majoritarianism. New Zealand for example (and also Israel if I'm not mistaken) use SNTV (single non transferable vote) electoral system which generates pluralitarian governments (with possible minority rule) and consecutive bargain over a coalition government. What I don't like about Parliamentary government..thinking of Israel. and others.is that to make a coalition..sometimes minorities are given too much power. they may represent 1 per cent of the people but they exercise disproportionate power because without them, a coaliton dissolves and there are new election. thus, when Likud is in power due to a minority margin , the ultra orthodox get too much say and try to put religious influenced laws into effect,. this is annoying and bad in many instances. In the U.S. we have checks and balances don't forget. a ruler has to pass his laws throguh two houses of congress , or for a constitutional change has to pass through I believe two thirds of states. One danger we have is a stacked supreme court. supreme court members are for life and as we saw in the last election..can literally anoint a king.i mean president. A slow deliberate process designed by our forefathers. It works most of the time..For me, I like the kind of democracy we have in the U.s...for all others...there's Mastercard!lol YidKid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 HAHAHAHA!!! Good one Gamavor jan! You just had it ready and waiting for the right moment, and what a perfect moment it was. Eve, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Teleban and Iranian mullahs also believe in philosophical principles and values and hate democracy! Mullahs hate democracy? I didn't know that. So are you saying Bush doesn't? But let me get this straight, I am not talking about culturally relative morality. I am talking about absolutes. The philosophy of absolutes. Your point is irrelevant. gamavor, what did you mean by that funny piece you posted? Were you being sarcastic of me???! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Me, sarcastic?! When, how, why??? No, of course not. I just enjoy reading your posts because of your imagination. That is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/democrats_3stooges.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 A slow deliberate process designed by our forefathers. It works most of the time... Sorry, but this sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. Why would they design such a process while establishing a democratic country, which just got independent from a monarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Mullahs hate democracy? I didn't know that. So are you saying Bush doesn't? But let me get this straight, I am not talking about culturally relative morality. I am talking about absolutes. The philosophy of absolutes. Your point is irrelevant. gamavor, what did you mean by that funny piece you posted? Were you being sarcastic of me???! Dear Wolf few thoughts. My point was extremely relevant! In an undemocratic system so called “obsolete truths” for one group means torture and imprisonment for others who disagree and furthermore the philosophical principles are inherent in any system! And by default means nothing on its own unless one puts those principles in action and tasted out. Few philosophically principals based systems in the past which were a nightmare, fascism, communism! Very principle oriented. If you mean religious based then I also disagree since there has never been in our history where religious based government succeeded running a government without mutilating and torturing and killing scores of opposition.. I find this very obvious but I also find this discussion by default understood by most people meaning democracy once again is a given human right and weather you choose to participate in it or not is not the issue but the framework in basic values such as, freedom, free speech, fair trial etc. are fundamental principals of democracy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted February 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Sorry, but this sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. Why would they design such a process while establishing a democratic country, which just got independent from a monarchy. LOL. They wanted a slow process with lots of debate and input. the opposite of a dictator or king who rules by decree. YidKid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 If Communism had adhered to the philosophical principles, it would've succeeded. But as always, the corruption of politicians caused its failure. It was not the philosophy that failed to do its job, it was the practical that failed - your so called politicians. If you mean religious based then I also disagree since there has never been in our history where religious based government succeeded running a government without mutilating and torturing and killing scores of opposition.. Yes, communism was not religiously oriented. In fact, it banned religion and the Bible. The result? Millions of people perished under communism. I suppose that's not comparable to religious systems. Remember that a philosophy is a philosophy until applied. And unless the politician who applies it is a philosopher who is objective and unbiased, there will be no chance of success. I just enjoy reading your posts because of your imagination. My imagination.. I guess that's good. At least there is a positive side to my constant engagement in philosophy. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Dear Wolf few thoughts. My point was extremely relevant! In an undemocratic system so called “obsolete truths” for one group means torture and imprisonment for others who disagree and furthermore the philosophical principles are inherent in any system! And by default means nothing on its own unless one puts those principles in action and tasted out. Few philosophically principals based systems in the past which were a nightmare, fascism, communism! Very principle oriented. If you mean religious based then I also disagree since there has never been in our history where religious based government succeeded running a government without mutilating and torturing and killing scores of opposition.. I find this very obvious but I also find this discussion by default understood by most people meaning democracy once again is a given human right and weather you choose to participate in it or not is not the issue but the framework in basic values such as, freedom, free speech, fair trial etc. are fundamental principals of democracy! I thought "democracy" was about "equality"? This is where poeple confuse, and rightly so, freedom and equality, for the political theorists and politicians are themselves misinformed ( or maybe they are informed and simply say such words to deceive ). "Freedom" and "equality" are non-existent in nature. They are only ideas, and ideas that must be used wisely. Nature recognizes the inequalities, and differences in minds, characters, and capacities, and subordination to her laws. It is deceitful and successful leaders that have mixed "equality" and "freedom" up for the sake of revolution and usurpation of power. The only thing we have, or can aspire to have is a degree of liberty with regard to our property, as liberty and property rights are synonymous, and imperative to understanding history and how the basic individuals' property rights have been violated in one form or another throughout history, by various political systems, "Democracy" not withstanding. In fact the idea that you have "freedom of speech" in a Democracy is fallacious. In France, Germany, and Canada, all "democratic", you cannot question the Holocaust, for it is a crime. Here I doubt one can question the Federal Government, much less go to Washington and point out how the U.S. funded these terrorists and Saddam into existence in the first place right in the Capitol. You will be branded a "terrorist" and sent to Guantanamo Bay, without due process. As Plato pointed out in his Republic, these systems naturally evolve into tyrannies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 I thought this could be posted here: [CWATCHDOG] Huge, Filthy Pot Calls Kettle Black - ACTION ALERT Further straining the already tenuous bounds of credulity, the Bush-Cheney 2004 campaign has unleashed campaign ads attacking Sen. John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee for President, as being "brought to you by special interests." If you aren't on the ground rolling with laughter already, the specific charge is that Sen. Kerry, who is campaigning to rid Washington of special interest influence, accepted $640,000 from lobbyists since 1989. While true, what the ad neglects to mention is that President Bush has himself raised $960,000 from lobbyists - in just 2003. Even more troubling, Bush has raised at least $6.5 million in contributions bundled by Washington influence peddlers, who are among his top fundraisers. Over 53 of the Bush campaign's elite fundraisers - known as Pioneers if they bundle at least $100,000, and Rangers if they bundle $200,000 - are registered lobbyists. To keep the record on special interest money straight, and to push for clean money elections, we urge you to email a quick letter to the editor of your local newspaper. You can do this easily by visiting the following web address: http://action.citizen.org/pc/issues/alert/...5091271&type=ME Please forward this message to your friends and colleagues! If you would like more information about Public Citizen, please visit us at http://www.citizen.org If you would like to support our work protecting democracy, health and safety, go to https://www.citizen.org/join/join Thank you, Public Citizen ------------------------------------------------------------ For more information about this, and the other issues Public Citizen works on, please visit our website at http://www.citizen.org/ If you have received this message in error, please accept our apologies. To unsubscribe, send an email message to congresswatchdog@citizen.org - with the words "unsubscribe CWATCHDOG" in the subject line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 I thought this could be posted here: I thought otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 The Iraq war has been used to enrich donators to Bush's campaign. So many of he firms that have received lucrative contracts are Bush donors. Some like Halliburton have told their staffs to pad expense accounts because the US government will not challenge these expenses. N.B. (Note Bene) Armenia is not being allowed to bid for any of these contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 N.B. (Note Bene) Armenia is not being allowed to bid for any of these contracts. Armenia bidding for these contracts ? Which of the mob families would bid ? those that ran the gas scheme, the cement monopoly, customs Which ones ? Please move this to the humor section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 I guess that Armenia should soon follow Georgia. Where is Hovanissian? Is he safely outside of Armenia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Armenia following Georgia seems to be mostly wishful thinking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) Armenia would follow Georgia if the middle class across the atlantic would move back to Armenia. The bottom line is that the only solution to Armenia is if people are willing to put effort into actually changing the country. I do not mean send 100 dollars of aid every 6months or help relatives there. What I am talking about is a mass migration...edleast half of the diaspera should move there and place a true democratic/Socialist government like Sweeden into power. Think about it like this $200k dollars in property if sold here could be more effective and profitable if invested there, but again the sheep only follow the Shepherd. You can not change the government by standing across the river and crying out for a rebellion. Like I have stated before America is what it is today due to foreign investment, but slowly that is changing due to cheap labor in India, Mexico, and most of Asia...jobs are moving there, which means American graduates should start thinking about signing up for unemployment in a few years. Personally to a extent I do not blame the corrupt government there because they have no political power in international forums other then some of the diaspera. I mean you have Russia above you, Turkey to your left, Turkey to your right, Arabs below you, and from Across the Atlantic America what can 2 million Armenias do unless more move there? About the Democratic presidential hopeful I am placing my vote for Kerry because he seems like the least corrupt and also because it will give Armenians some political say in Washington. Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) Armenia would follow Georgia if the middle class across the atlantic would move back to Armenia. The bottom line is that the only solution to Armenia is if people are willing to put effort into actually changing the country. I do not mean send 100 dollars of aid every 6months or help relatives there. What I am talking about is a mass migration...edleast half of the diaspera should move there and place a true democratic/Socialist government like Sweeden into power. Think about it like this $200k dollars in property if sold here could be more effective and profitable if invested there, but again the sheep only follow the Shepherd. You can not change the government by standing across the river and crying out for a rebellion. Like I have stated before America is what it is today due to foreign investment, but slowly that is changing due to cheap labor in India, Mexico, and most of Asia...jobs are moving there, which means American graduates should start thinking about signing up for unemployment in a few years. Personally to a extent I do not blame the corrupt government there because they have no political power in international forums other then some of the diaspera. I mean you have Russia above you, Turkey to your left, Turkey to your right, Arabs below you, and from Across the Atlantic America what can 2 million Armenias do unless more move there? About the Democratic presidential hopeful I am placing my vote for Kerry because he seems like the least corrupt and also because it will give Armenians some political say in Washington. Never happen. It didn't happen in Israel after the Holocaust[sp?}. Jews like me would never move to Israel. New Jersey is the Promised Land with Long Island a close second. Like warmer weather?Try L.A. suburbs. Truth is ..no matter who you are..once an American..only a crazy goes back to the homeland! YidKid Edited February 16, 2004 by Jewish Friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 LOL Jewish Friend, is there a plan to name New Jersey Jew Jersey? Kidding. How about Palm Beach? Lots of Jews there, I hear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 LOL Jewish Friend, is there a plan to name New Jersey Jew Jersey? Kidding. How about Palm Beach? Lots of Jews there, I hear? Damn Jews in Florida can't punch a ballot...even for a potential Jewish vice president..pathetic! Who said they are all smart doctors? Don't look so smart to the YidKid! That's why I love America..after a while..we are no longer stereotypes..we mix it up..and become one! Only in America can the Yid Kid be accepted on an Armo board..well I hope I am anyway..lol YidKid! {Being an American..I claim this board for the U.S. of course!lol YidKid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I never knew boards had nationalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I never knew boards had nationalities. Damn! I have a whole room dedicated to the Beatles..Unon Jack and all! Did not notice you are from Liverpool. In the real world I am the GodFather..you are under my protection. This week was their anniversary on arriving here when I was a teenager. You are from liverpool..you are KING! YidKid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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