den_wolf Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 The same thing, races, like women, have biological differences, and cultural is a veneer reflecting that given group of people or race. Of course in this day and age, to state this, is to veer off into the forbidden territory of racial differences, which is, politically incorrect at best. LOL. Well, philosophers have the license of political incorrectness, although not completely bulletproof. I am of the opinion that there ARE racial differences (which is why there ARE races to begin with). And I am of the opinion that these differences do mean something. But, the argument goes the same as feminism, you're right, which is why I give it so little credit, if any at all. That something is one way, and that something ought to be another way are two different things. What our hearts desire is not always what is REAL or possible. There is a difference between human nature and human desires. For example, let's say I WISH I were as smart as Einstein (whatever "smart" means), there is a fine difference between that wish (or even the claim that all human beings are equally intelligent, in case I do make that claim) and the reality of the situation (that Einstein was and always will be smarter than me). And there is no way that I can change that. That's an example. I'm not saying that I believe in "genius" (or that I don't). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 LOL. Well, philosophers have the license of political incorrectness, although not completely bulletproof. I am of the opinion that there ARE racial differences (which is why there ARE races to begin with). And I am of the opinion that these differences do mean something. But, the argument goes the same as feminism, you're right, which is why I give it so little credit, if any at all. That something is one way, and that something ought to be another way are two different things. What our hearts desire is not always what is REAL or possible. There is a difference between human nature and human desires. For example, let's say I WISH I were as smart as Einstein (whatever "smart" means), there is a fine difference between that wish (or even the claim that all human beings are equally intelligent, in case I do make that claim) and the reality of the situation (that Einstein was and always will be smarter than me). And there is no way that I can change that. That's an example. I'm not saying that I believe in "genius" (or that I don't). Very true, rings like a bell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 hmmm i see what you boys are getting at...but what do you think of the following quote? (believe it was made by Nietzche): "any woman with scholarly inclinations has something wrong with her reproductive/sexual organs" what a bunch of b.c.!!! oh wait!!! or was it his greatest fear that someday a woman might come along and figure him out!!! this kind of stupid statement is no different than covering up women's heads and bodies, so to prevent the men from getting aroused!!---so cover up her body, keep her from learning and thinking, so that you'd be the "man" <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) was it his greatest fear that someday a woman might come along and figure him out!!! no one can figure out Nietzsche. not men, not women, not even God. but oh wait, God is dead. hahaha.. what about Mr. Freud, who thought women who wanted independence etc. were hysterical? LMAO!! i mean, i strongly believe that women are different from men physically and therefore socially too, but that's stretching it!!! I don't know. Hmm. I dislike Freud. most of what he said was only his own opinion, not based on scientific facts. i still don't understand why so many people take him seriously. Edited February 16, 2004 by den_wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Wolfie, didn't you say philosophers should be given politicians' jobs (or something like that) ? Now let's imagine Nietzcshe was a president and Freud was a prime minister :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) Wolfie, didn't you say philosophers should be given politicians' jobs (or something like that) ? Now let's imagine Nietzcshe was a president and Freud was a prime minister :lol: Oh, Nietzsche would've been a great president, trust me!!!! Indeed, governments are supposed to be secular. Freud is far from being a philosopher. He was simply someone immensely occupied with sexual fantasies. Edited February 16, 2004 by den_wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Oh, Nietzsche would've been a great president, trust me!!!! Yeah right, particularly for women Indeed, governments are supposed to be secular. And that's where Nietzche becomes unreplaceable??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 no one can figure out Nietzsche. not men, not women, not even God. but oh wait, God is dead. hahaha.. what about Mr. Freud, who thought women who wanted independence etc. were hysterical? LMAO!! i mean, i strongly believe that women are different from men physically and therefore socially too, but that's stretching it!!! I don't know. Hmm. I dislike Freud. most of what he said was only his own opinion, not based on scientific facts. i still don't understand why so many people take him seriously. i certainly don't take Freud seriously!!! and another thing i hate the origin of that word 'hysterical'... you might know where it comes from! i believe it 's greek for 'the uterus'...referring to the uterus as the origin of emotional instability or outbursts!! basically lookin at women as these out of control creatures... well if that is so then how come most violent crimes, at least in this country, are committed by men?? we as a society have messed up views on a lot of things...same thing can be said about men too!! why is it men are 'sissies' if they cry? i think it's a beautiful thing..i'd be honored if a man was touched by something and cried in my presence...especially a man that i love...it just shows that he is human and caring....i mean who the heck wants to be with a freakin robbot?? to me that is not 'manly'....manly is when i feel my total femininity in the presence of a man...NOT when he is stiffling his emotions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 well if that is so then how come most violent crimes, at least in this country, are committed by men?? If Freud were alive now, he would've said it was because of women haha... :lol: And that's where Nietzche becomes unreplaceable??? Sorry I didn't quite understand what you meant by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Sorry I didn't quite understand what you meant by that. I thought you were saying Nietzche would make a secular government because he was a non-believer in God. Many presidents are believers but their governments are secular so an atheist is not necessary for the job. I highly doubt that he could be a good president for many reasons... but that's off-topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Hmm yes that is offtopic, but let me clarify my view on this since we already mentioned it - i think an atheist can have a better grasp of the importance of secularism in governments than a religious person, simply because we are all prejudiced beings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Hmm yes that is offtopic, but let me clarify my view on this since we already mentioned it - i think an atheist can have a better grasp of the importance of secularism in governments than a religious person, simply because we are all prejudiced beings. (arguably) OK - and a believer would have an added sense of personal responsibility in matters of fairness and a moral society, better understanding of the religious/spiritual citizens' needs and issues such as freedom of conscience and inter faith harmony. Of course, believer vs. atheist are large generalizations and it really depends on the person's other qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 That's why there's the Ministry of Justice. Besides, I don't think a religious person would be more responsible than an athesit when it comes to moral issues and a moral society. Anyhow.. let's not go there in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Freud was a believer in God, by the way. You won't find this in his professional works. The evidence is in the various letters he wrote to his daughter and colleagues and friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 That's why there's the Ministry of Justice. The same Ministry of Justice is also there to make sure the constitution is upheld in secular government I am a believer in God and I am for a secular government. So are many other believers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Freud was a believer in God, by the way. You won't find this in his professional works. The evidence is in the various letters he wrote to his daughter and colleagues and friends. Lol that's not what they teach us in philosophy class. They said that Freud believed God was a father figure for hopeless people and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I think that in addition to a forum called "gender issues" on Hye Forum, all countries should have a Ministry of Gender Issues. Then the party can begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I think that in addition to a forum called "gender issues" on Hye Forum, all countries should have a Ministry of Gender Issues. Then the party can begin. Am I invited? Do I wear a toga or thongs? Why don't people wear their "birthday suits" at birthday parties? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 UGH!! Gender issues?! MMMk thanks. But no. I'm sick of hearing the word "gender." Well, we're of different genders, sexes, or whatever the heck you want to call it, but.... not the gender discussion again! It seems to be the most frequently used word in universities.... LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) Thank you! And I was beginning to think I was the only one sick of this bs. Edited February 16, 2004 by gurgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 It's quite ironical that no one, except for me, said anything when we had a Women forum. I don't know about your countries, but mine doesn't have a Ministry of Women Affairs. For all I care this whole subforum can disappear, but apparently some people for some reason that is beyond me want to discuss women. Yet, so far, no one answered my question as to what women have that needs such special attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) what women have that needs such special attention LOL. Well, for men, women have something that men want (not going into details LOL). For women, women have the need to feel special. So I guess that's how it works. But you're right, I don't see why there should be a separate forum for Women or even for gender issues.. what's the big deal. If i can discuss philosophy in the "Other" forum, why can't the discussions about women, such as feminism, etc. go into that forum too? I don't know. LOL. Trying desparately not to sound too controversial, but somehow I can't help it. edit - see now all this talk about gender got me all mixed up with my spelling LOL. Edited February 16, 2004 by den_wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 It's quite ironical that no one, except for me, said anything when we had a Women forum. I don't know about your countries, but mine doesn't have a Ministry of Women Affairs. For all I care this whole subforum can disappear, but apparently some people for some reason that is beyond me want to discuss women. Yet, so far, no one answered my question as to what women have that needs such special attention. Amen! I think it only adds to segragation that we seperate women and have a special forum for them while we don't have one for men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I think it only adds to segragation that we seperate women and have a special forum for them while we don't have one for men. Well, now we do have a forum for both men and women, namely "gender issues." But I still fail to see why people need to constantly talk about gender, and not any other social aspects... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Why not drop the whole thing? It's so done and over with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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