nairi Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Plplan Tnkvel Lghr&vel Lkrtvats Mkrtvel Trtnjuk Klmndrik Khndmndal Feel free to add Invented words are also welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Frtfrtots Mkrtchyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 (edited) shanporikian dzvakerian Zkrtal Jngrnel(al) xomchel Edited December 17, 2003 by Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Fun!? Fun!? Have some mercy on the sev-odar you know armenian pronunciation is dishvar! And you want to have words with no vowels!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Gzgzvats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 փռշտալ prshtal ընդվզել @ndvzel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Please accept my resignation!!! <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted December 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Come on Gams, if you can't even ridicule your own language, where's the fun? Here's a few more, especially for you Pttcnel Bndbndorel Bldbldoc Gmbgmboc Zngzngoc tghtghkoc Shlkhkshlkhkoc (easy read: shlkhk-shlkhk-oc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 tzhvzhik ( ) khzbzvats tshmrtvats dghrdal zrral (ask Domino ) drdral trvral ppzel mrtmrtal .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheekY Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 zrral (ask Domino ) oh man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 do you notice how many of these words are (don't know the term) made up of the sounds that that actions make? here is an interesting word. as far as i know it is the only word in Armenian that has triple letter in it. կկկոցեմ [kkkotsem], meaning կթարթեմ [ktartem] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 do you notice how many of these words are (don't know the term) made up of the sounds that that actions make? Yes They're called onomatopoeias (bnadzaynakan bar) And there is another pattern too. The max amount of consonants at the beginning of a word is usually 6. Those above 6 are merely a repetition of the first 3 or 4 consonants. Another interesting feature is that inside words, the max usually seems to be 3, unless it's a prefix followed by the root word, like ankrkneli. Then what about syllables? How many consonants can there be in one syllable before having to be "broken" by a vowel? Qstmnecucich &mrtkel Mshtnjenavor Hrmshtkel Can we push the limits of the standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 All those words have a gakhtnavank @ hence a vowel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 All of these is not that difficult really. Those of you who are familiar with Polish and Lithuenian, know what I mean. I dated for a short time a girl from Lithuania and I couldn't pronounce her last name despite the tremendous efforts on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 All of these is not that difficult really. Those of you who are familiar with Polish and Lithuenian, know what I mean. I dated for a short time a girl from Lithuania and I couldn't pronounce her last name despite the tremendous efforts on my part. This is all in fun so I won't rain on the parade. Keep the examples coming. Gams, you read my mind. In fact I was searching to bring some examples from Polish. Just as TK is right as well, all of those consonants are pronounced in Armenian, perhaps with a silent @. While in other languages clusters are pronounced as anotherr consonant, look at TKs nickname KN pronounced as N? Even more as in Polish sometimes it will take a cluster of up to 4 consonants as czsc to produce the sound of Ch as in Czjajkowski(Chaikovski). Even simpler than that, look how many clusters/diphthongs there are in the English language. How do spell FISH? GHOTI! Let's see how many can decipher it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted December 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 So how many consonants max can there be in a syllable? Also, can we break the law of clusters? For instance, there are no words beginning with lb or rt. We can say lplpal, but not lblbal. Why? (Sonority Hierarchy?) And what exactly is the "natural" law of the hidden @? When do we have to insert it and when not? For instance, if you were to break up any of the above words, where would you insert a @? (btw, it's not a real shwa /@/, but sounds almost like it ). If I'm right, Bert Vaux did a whole research on just this topic. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to study it in detail. But even without extensive research (and he has been criticized), can we find some basic patterns and "laws" ourselves? And once we know them, can we break or expand them? Would a word like: lbrstal be possible in Armenian? Or Kdtpgmfqsel? Or does that go against natural laws? If so, why? As for Ghoti, I'll let the non-English language students guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Would a word like: lbrstal be possible in Armenian? Or Kdtpgmfqsel? Or does that go against natural laws? If so, why? As for Ghoti, I'll let the non-English language students guess Nairchik, I'm not even going to try. This time I might cause serious physical injury to my tonque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted December 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 Nairchik, I'm not even going to try. This time I might cause serious physical injury to my tonque. And that's probably the main reason why every linguistic system (language if you will) is limited: words have to be pronounceable within that system!! So here's a puzzle for those who like it so much How many of these words are or could potentially be Armenian as we know it today? Hint: don't think, just feel. Khlnkot Khlmkot Khlmpskot Khlntroc Lpstvel Lprtskvel Lmncnel Lmntstkvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted March 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Thank you Skit for reminding me that I had this thread to tend Anyway, I'm not sure if any of you figured it out, but I don't know the answer However, I would guess that those above 6 consonants don't fit in the Armenian pronounciation system as we know it. They're simply too exhausting to pronounce. The following might help to unravel the mystery of the Armenian consonant cluster a bit From: Grammaire D'Armenien Oriental -- M. Minassian Although linguists haven't come to an agreement as to when and where exactly the shwa /@/ is pronounced, there are four generalizations. 1. Preceding certain initial consonants The following list does not apply to Russian loan words: zb- : zbaghvel (pr. @zbaghvel) zg- : zgal sht- : shtapel st- (aspirated /t/) : stapvel sk- : sksel sp- : spasel st- : stanal sp- (aspirated /p/) : spopel sq- : sqancheli This shwa is only pronounced if the vowel following the cluster is not elided. So stel is pronounced /s@tel/ since the verb is derived from sut. 2. Between adjacent consonants at the beginning of a word C = consonant V = vowel - = separates syllables a. Two adjacent consonants: Pronounced: C@ - CV : gdal /g@ - dal/ b. Three adjacent consonants: Pronounced: (i) C@C - CV : brnel /b@r - nel/ (ii) C@ - C@ - CV : kh&&el /kh@ - &@ - &el/ c. Four adjacent consonants: (i) C@ - C@C - CV : mkrtel /m@ - k@r - tel/ (ii) C@C - C@ - CV : mtcnel /m@t - c@ - nel/ d. Five adjacent consonants: (i) C@C - C@C - CV : grgrvel /g@r - g@r - vel/ (ii) C@ - C@CC - CV : &mrtkel /&@ - m@rt - kel/ e. Six adjacent consonants: (i) C@C - C@C - C@ - CV : hrmshtkel /h@r - m@sh - t@ - kel/ (ii) C@CC - C@C - CV : zngzngoc /z@ng - z@n - goc/ 3. Between medial consonants a. Two adjacent consonants: There is no shwa since they usually break into two syllables: karmir /kar - mir/ b. Three adjacent consonants: (i) 1st syllable - C@ - CV : karktel /kar - k@ - tel/ (ii) 1st syl - C@C - CV : patrvak /pa - t@r - vak/ c. Four adjacent consonants: These are usually either derived or compound words, e.g. ankrkneli. 4. Between two final consonants Only in these few limited cases. All other cases do not pronounce the shwa. a. The possessive article, e.g. -s, -d tuns /tu - n@s/ (my house) But also: verjers /ver - je - r@s/ (lately) b. Where -s is not an article yevs /ye - v@s/ deryevs terevs c. ayzhm /ay - zh@m/ @st aysm @st aynm d. anhimn /an - hi - m@n/ omn e. When the word ends in /gh, r, r'/ arkgh /ar - k@gh/ poqr /po - q@r/ gampr' /gam - p@r'/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 thank you nairi for shading light to my սփրթնած [sprtnats] brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted March 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 thank you nairi for shading light to my ??????? [sprtnats] brain. I finally got Bert Vaux's "The Phonology of Armenian" from the library. I'm hoping he'll expand on Minassian. We'll see... Meanwhile feel free to expand the list here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted August 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 shntrkel - to sleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vartahoor Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 shntrkel - to sleep Շնթռկել՝ պառկել շմերի նման, քնել Շնթռկել բառը վիրաւորական ձևով է գործ ածվում, օր.՝ «Ոչիփուչը շնթռկել է», այսպես են արտահայտվում մեկի մասին որի հանդեպ հարգանք չկա, իսկ եթփ շնորհքով պետք է արտահայտվել ապա՝ «նա քնել է» ձևն են օգտագործում: vartahoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vartahoor Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 (edited) Plplan Tnkvel Lghr&vel Lkrtvats Mkrtvel Trtnjuk Klmndrik Khndmndal Feel free to add ՊլպլանPlplan ՏնկվելTnkvel Լղրվել Lghr&vel Լկստված Lkstvats Մկրտվել Mkrtvel Տրտնջուք Trtnjuk Klmndrik ? Խնդմնդալ Khndmndal Լկստված Edited July 5, 2007 by vartahoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 hrjvanq հրճվանք... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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