Armenian Recessive Haplotype (from Armenia)

[gamavor]

I'm sure I will infuriate many of you by saying that I agree to certain extend with Elbayr. Historic Armenia covered huge territory and the indigenous population of that territory was not homogenous, nor it was too diverse. Many of the regions of Armenia had very different racial and cultural make up and characteristics judging by their folklore, traditions etc. However, this is not the real problem. Many (if not all) countries follow the same patterns of cultural and political evolution. What is striking in Armenia's case is epithets like "Axpars" and "hayastantzi", bolsahyes and lipanatzi, suriatzi and parskahye.

Sorry to say this, but since I do not belong to any of this perfected categories I call myself Armenian from .... the country! It may be Romania, Italy, France, Bulgaria, etc.. People in my country will except me for what I am and will not discriminate me, while my own blood will try to put me in some category.

 

The most dreadful problem of the Armenians worldwide, Armenia included is the inherited PROVINCIALISM. Not that much tribalism, ethnocentrism, cultural xenophobia, but exactly - provincialism which unfortunately goes both ways. East-West, West - East.

[Arpa]

Bingo Dan!

Way to go man!!!

You're a genius!

Look at these. Keyword "depigmented".

[/url]

I have known some "depigmented" people, they are loosely known as "albinos". There are also African Albinos.

BTW. I did not know this but some Eng-Arm dictionaries define it a "albinos" and "lsnamashk". Probably from lusin/moon and mashk/skin.

[Dan]

gamavor, i have no problem with his points as long as he doesn't claim that western armenians deserve more respect than their eastern counterparts.

[Sasun]

minor cleaning done, the cooling down is encouraging and welcome

[Stormig]

That's funny -

Armenians were persecuted by Turks and hence became Turkified - and this is the Easterns he is talking about. Lucky Armenians were, then, becoming Turks yet at the same time converting the persecutors into Armenian Orthodoxy.

[Stormig]

BTW, anybody tell me about the people of Kanaker on the northeastern edge of Yerevan? I heard they look really different.

[THOTH]

That's funny -

Armenians were persecuted by Turks and hence became Turkified - and this is the Easterns he is talking about. Lucky Armenians were, then, becoming Turks yet at the same time converting the persecutors into Armenian Orthodoxy.

Yeah - I supose that one can make up any scenario eh? (using Elbe logic...)

 

And in fact wouldn't it be the Western Armenians - who lived for 500 years under Turkish/Ottoman rule - who have been the most Turkified of all? Am i missing something here?

[Arpa]

BTW, anybody tell me about the people of Kanaker on the northeastern edge of Yerevan? I heard they look really different.

Ask him.

 

http://literature.ascp.am/abovyan/site/all.htm

 

I'm not sure if this site mentions the fact that Khachatur A. was born in Kanaker, a sond that I can't locate in print goes something like this;

 

Hayastani verqi ergich lusapaytsar Abovian,

Khosum es du mer srti khorqich, Mes het es du havityan.

Yerani the mi or hankardz Kanakerits ijneyir.... etc.

 

Also observe pictures of his family.

Oh yes, it does, the fact that Abovians house museum is in Kanaker.

Sorry, the site is in Armenian text, those who can't read the font click at the cliackables at the bottom anyway and you will see pictures as well.

[Elbayr]

Never heard of it. The main rivers running south from Georgia are Qour and Rioni.

 

 

 

Sounds like Intanbul University again. Everybody knows that "Armenia" and its king Ervand were at least mentioned in 6th century BC by Darius I. At that time Armenia's capital was Ervandashat (Ararat valley).

 

 

 

Very much like Istanbul University

 

 

 

Obviously Insanbul University

 

 

 

Aha, the Greeks are not realy Greeks. This one is clearly an outcome of cooperation between Instanbul and Ankara Universities.

 

 

 

Well I'm very POLITICALLY motivated. And I don't care where Armenians come from or how they look or who they mixed with, as far as they identify themselves as Armenian, try to contribute to the Armenian cause and feel themselves OK with other nations of the world.

And one thing that I can assure you that will never happen in present days is Armenians being sabotaged by good-old High Porta

 

The main pattern in you posts was Istanbul University

ArmenSarq,

I think your inability to properly grasp the English language has caused for some misunderstandings

 

"Sounds like Intanbul University again. Everybody knows that "Armenia" and its king Ervand were at least mentioned in 6th century BC by Darius I. At that time Armenia's capital was Ervandashat (Ararat valley)."

 

what i meant by real Armenia, was the unification of all the "Armenian" states, Istanbul University makes claims for a reason, its a University...much of the historical claims they make are true (with acception to giving credit to Modern Day Armenians.......stealing our damn identity)

 

i never said the Greeks were not Greeks, the modern Macedonians Former Yugoslavian Republic of.. (slavic Serbs, with remnants of Ottoman empire, Turkish and Albanian minorities) are whome i were reffering to, yet Macedonia existed at a time where the word "greek" or "armenia" did not. I never said the macedonians were not ethnic "mediterannean greek" or greeks of today not greek

 

I was using hittites as a way of showing you that, since you beleive in a single armenian nation, that the hittites (what i consider ancient armenian lineage) inhabitted those western armenian lands I was telling you about, and more. when there was hittites, there was no Armenia, however the hittites became ARMENIANS, and the lands will forever be ARMENIAN...

 

BTW artaxata is in fact a river, but i was misinformed it does not come in from georgia, but in hamsheci turkey (it was obviously named after the Artaxata on the ARAXES river)

 

also that Malatya, Aleppo, Katal Huyuk, Konya, modern day Ankara, Antalya, were all Hittite cities...the hittites are in my eyes the western armenians, and urartus the eastern...but intermingling obviously gave both to each

[Elbayr]

That's funny -

Armenians were persecuted by Turks and hence became Turkified - and this is the Easterns he is talking about. Lucky Armenians were, then, becoming Turks yet at the same time converting the persecutors into Armenian Orthodoxy.

http://www.racearchives.com/calc/haplo_pro...asianhaplotypes

 

Armenians from Armenia distance from Central Asians...not that far. in fact the closest. The Western Armenians suffered GENOCIDE, that means people get raped then soon after killed , the Eastern Armenian suffered Turkifications (settlements by Turks) in all aspects of Armenian history. During the Persian Domination of the Sumarkhands , ofShiraz, and of Tehran, to the Mongol settlements of Vartans times, and to the intermingling of caucasics (uzleri, dage, abkhaz, bulgars, albans, azeris, bashkiri, tartari) into the eastern, most specifically in caucasic mingling, modern day Armenia inhabitting Armenians. These physical characteristics are absent in the Western Armenians (who were tested in several regions of the middle east and europe for mongoloid traits), in contrast with the armenians from armenia or iran, who had a percentage of 5-7% mongoloid dna ovelapse.

 

Perhaps a good example of this extreme Turkification is evident in Eastern Armenians being darker in pigmentation (black hair, sometimes yellow/dark olive/ brown skin), Turkic facial features, and Turkish musical/cultural influences. however they are nothing shorter of an Armenian than an Armenian of the West. I think both should be preserved and not mingled. When i say "TURK", i dont mean the TURK of modern Anatolia, but the Turkic, Hunnic, Uggric tribes of the regions of North Central Asia, Modern Day Russia, Finnland and Mongolia.

[Armen]

ArmenSarq,

I think your inability to properly grasp the English language has caused for some misunderstandings

 

Elbayr,

 

Though my English is poor it is sufficient to undestand you. I was just trying to see where are you coming from.

 

what i meant by real Armenia, was the unification of all the "Armenian" states, Istanbul University makes claims for a reason, its a University...much of the historical claims they make are true (with acception to giving credit to Modern Day Armenians.......stealing our damn identity)

 

I know that Universities make claims for reason. To say more they make claims for POLITICAL reasons mostly.

You know what, I'm fine with my identity even it is not as pure as yours, because Eastern Armenia has produced world class giants like Chess Champion of the World, World Class Composer, the Head of the World Astrophysics and its going to produce more. Can you please tell me what mixture of DNA gives this results?

If you want to call yourself an Armenian, that's fine too, I will call myself a Hye and my country Hyeastan.

 

also that Malatya, Aleppo, Katal Huyuk, Konya, modern day Ankara, Antalya, were all Hittite cities...the hittites are in my eyes the western armenians, and urartus the eastern...but intermingling obviously gave both to each

 

Hitties were the most mixed race of their time. They mixed with black Lacatoumbians to the East, and semitic Vitsarians, Delmerkatongs and Gikamanas to the south.

Edited December 17, 2003 by ArmenSarg

[Stormig]

Elbayr,

For someone who professes such knowledge, you sure don't know how to use the word "Altaic." Now that would've brought your point across somewhat but you failed at the very beginning. Try elsewhere and better luck next time.

And get a clue as to who has more cultural similarities with Turks.

[Elbayr]

World CHess CHampion? That DNA mixture was HALF JEWISH, composers? Western Armenia had thoulsands, and was home to the first Armenian University. The Hittites were ARMENOID, and NORDIDS, I dont knot what history book your pulling that crap out of, but it sounds like youve been reading Heman novels too much. The semites had just barely began to rise north of babylonia at the fall of the hitite empire, and settled in the lands now know as URARTU and HAYASDAN, ASSYRIA

 

ALTAIC means TURK...it is between mongolia and kazakstan, and home to the first mongoloid. Stormy did you think you proved me wrong about anything? Nope...The evidence is clear. your people are mongrels......Just compare them...you dont even have to read history books..look at them, your Armenians are a clear indication of a mongoloid strain in a swarthy group of Armenians...

 

Edited by Sasun

[Elbayr]

Im sorry to say that evern that half jew is even of turkish armenian lineage......as goes goes KHATCHATURIAN, not khatchaturyan....perhaps your greatest musical productions would be Aram Assatryan and his hyperbracheocephalic Harem band, Armenchikhan, Andy the Mongrel.....and much much more! pssht, give me a break, your culture is an embarassment to me and to human existance as a whole

[Stormig]

Elbayr, let me guess, you are fifteen years old?

 

Altaic does NOT mean Turkic. Turkic is so narrow, Altaic is so broad, how did you end up where you were?

 

I'll see you later, if you are still going to be allowed to post on the forum.

[Armen]

You are a couple of un-informed school girls. World CHess CHampion? That DNA mixture was HALF JEWISH, composers? Western Armenia had thoulsands, and was home to the first Armenian University. The Hittites were ARMENOID, and NORDIDS, I dont knot what history book your pulling that crap out of, but it sounds like youve been reading Heman novels too much. The semites had just barely began to rise north of babylonia at the fall of the hitite empire, and settled in the lands now know as URARTU and HAYASDAN, ASSYRIA.

Armen sounds like a girl for you, eh? I can tell you it's as "male" as it gets.

 

I'm not talking about Kasparov. I mean Tigran Petrossian by World Champion. Pure Hye, curly black hair, very short height, the bigest nose you could imagine and very dark skin.

 

Now, tell me about the thousands of Hitti Western Armenian composers.

 

First Armenian Universities? Gladzor, Tatev both in present Armenia.

 

The undeniable facts about Lacatoumbians, semitic Vitsarians, Delmerkatongs and Gikamanas I pulled out of my own mind. Actually, who is Heman? I think a shall buy his book. So, he speaks about Hitties being mixed, right?

[Stormig]

BTW, according to your source, it is only Turkmens who are close - starting off from Uzbeks, it goes off more than proximity with Kurds - and especially Azeris! Armenians have as much to do with Uighurs, a prime example of Altaic people, as they do with the British. Where did you get your clowning major from? Tunisia?

 

edited by Sasun

[Elbayr]

Central Asia + Caucasian Armenia = Both examples of mongolized regions, central asia was once too an indo-european inhabited land my friend. Turkmens were once SARMATIANS, not basically half mongols. The world renound Armenian university was in present day Mersin(Im pretty sure, but sure it was in that regoin). It was a international university. I dont see many English people traveling to post soviet hayasdan for an education. During WWI many German, Polish, Serbian and Lebanese people went to that university.

 

Stormy if you had actually opened a geonology or history book you'd know that Turk came before ALTAI (a region claimed by the Uggrics and Hunnic tribes of western mongolia), who then split off from the Uggrics and claimed ALTAI...or INDEPENDENCE. The word MONGOLIAN, comes from the western description of all asians as "mongolian-like". The Asians came from Turks.

[Stormig]

Turkish, Mongolian, Finnish, etc., are all members of the Ural-Altai family of languages. Assuming the ethnicities are congruent with the languages, you cannot say Altai came from Turk and hence Mongol came from Turk. The general name for the race slant-eyed people come from is Mongoloid - not Turkoloid.

What is this, are you a joke? If so, your execution is poorer than that of N. Phokas', whom not everybody understood. But you do a pretty poor job, OK?

[DominO123]

Turkish, Mongolian, Finnish, etc., are all members of the Ural-Altai family of languages. Assuming the ethnicities are congruent with the languages, you cannot say Altai came from Turk and hence Mongol came from Turk. The general name for the race slant-eyed people come from is Mongoloid - not Turkoloid.

What is this, are you a joke? If so, your execution is poorer than that of N. Phokas', whom not everybody understood. But you do a pretty poor job, OK?

I guess his knowledge of genealogy of ethnic groups is as poor as his knowledge of genetic. I'm waiting that this individual talk about something he know about ...

 

Edited by Sasun

Edited December 17, 2003 by Sasun

[Elbayr]

repetition....