hagopn Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) Hey Gams! When is the last time I told you; “You are wonderful, full of wonder”? Where do you find these wonderful sites? Why is it that every time I watch such beauty I must have a box of Kleenex handy? Yes, yes. I know. I’m an old fool. I just recently saw Anush at the Yerevan Opera House, and I had to leave the hall several times, just s I did some ten years ago because I did not have enough Kleenexes in my pocket. The most beautiful of the whole thing are those those beautiful boys and girls, and the music is played with traditional Armenian instruments like duduk, zurna and dhol. No Zilji-oglu cymbals, no Yamaha keyboards….and so on. Some time ago I was deeply embroiled in debates of what traditional Armenian Music and Dance is. The debate was about advertising “Armenian Nights“ emphasizing “belly dancing”. Can you see any bellies in the above tapes? Do you see any more than those “big Armenian noses” , :) (don’t shoot me, it's a joke), or past the tips of their fingers? How beautiful!!! And…. One of the tapes features Kochari. Where is Robert Kochar(ian)? :) Is that the same dance our troops performed at the Brandenburg Gate in may of 1945?? If it's worth anything, I'm singing background vocals in that song--- http://youtube.com/watch?v=fV2CEInfsrw&...;search=Kochari Producer, arranger, Roma Kanyan... Edited June 24, 2007 by hagopn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aghzar Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Thank you Gamavor. Look at these boys http://youtube.com/watch?v=cosubnpLb4M&...ted&search= Then look at these “boys”. Մէնք այդ շուն- շան- վոր տու-ներին մայրը պիտ … լացնենք. Look at this. Do they know what "ahcik/ahchik/aghchik"means? this "sivas aghchig halay" is very similar to the second version of the "sepastatsi bar". its fitting that its called "aghchig halay" because i always thought the subtle foot movements were more suited to women, although where im from all ages and sexes do this dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted June 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 The turkish dance from Sivas has absolutely nothing to do with the Armenian dance of Sebastia. See and hear the difference yourself. And this is maybe the most Sebastatsi Bar - Govduntsi Bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Given the instrument, the melody sounds Pontic. Yet as we know, the hamshen have preserved traces of the Armenian past that are found among no other community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aghzar Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 I'm not referring to the music, but to the steps. The music played by this fellow on the kemanche is certainly the melody of Sepastia Bar, not whatever this thing is the turks are playing on davoul zourna. I'm merely pointing out that the steps reffered to by the Turks in the video as "ahcik halay" are similar to one of the dances we do for Sepastia Bar (which they clearly stole from us, as seen by the fact that they call it "ahcik (aghchig) halay".) If you watch the "Bijo Bar" video, and wait until the guy starts counting "one two three" you will see that they start doing a step similar to the one in the Turkish video. of course they are not exactly the same, but thats bc the Turks can't do it right Thanks for those videos though, I guess the dance I am talking about is actually a form of "Bijo Bar", which would explain why in my community we have two completely different dances that are both called "sepastia bar" - one is actually this so called "bijo bar", and one is the "original sepastia bar" (i knew from my aunt that the one similar to this "bijo bar" is not the "real one" but she didn't explain to me anything else) the "real" sepastia bar, which is supposed to go to the music the kemanche man is playing, is quite different. By the way I love that "govduntsi" video. That's probably my favorite video on all of youtube, I was actually about to post it to this topic myself. thats not the "sepastatsi bar" though, but more of a sepastatsi version of the halleh (kochari). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aghzar Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Given the instrument, the melody sounds Pontic. Yet as we know, the hamshen have preserved traces of the Armenian past that are found among no other community. They may have preserved traces found in "no other community", but this melody isn't one of them. This melody of Sepastia Bar has been preserved in the Armenian-American community for the past 90 years. (the accompanying dance has been preserved too - see my other comments) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted June 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 What I find funny is how some people find similarities in non existent realms. Compare this: With this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrFijvr6geo pezevenk sounds that torture one's senses and tell me where is the similarity??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karnoug Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Given the instrument, the melody sounds Pontic. Yet as we know, the hamshen have preserved traces of the Armenian past that are found among no other community. I'm not even gonna get into the origins of any of the dances/music, since I simply do not know. But I did want to comment on the Hamshen people...I saw an interview once with some of them, in their local environment...it provoked the strangest feelings in me. I mean, here are Armenians, speaking Armenian, knowing they are Armenian, knowing their history....and yet they are Muslim... darorinag... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted June 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 I mean, here are Armenians, speaking Armenian, knowing they are Armenian, knowing their history....and yet they are Muslim... darorinag... Fear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 i have a video that was made 5 years a go by H1 Armenia TV - it explains about Armenian dance & it's elements it's from Հայեր Tv Series / lets see if i can post it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karnoug Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Fear! I don't think so gamavor. Maybe in the beginning with their ancestors they converted due to fear, but I believe the new generation feels and believes in Islam. It's just strange for me to see Muhammedian Armenians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 I don't think so gamavor. Maybe in the beginning with their ancestors they converted due to fear, but I believe the new generation feels and believes in Islam. It's just strange for me to see Muhammedian Armenians... It feels strange to us but not to them. They are born into Islam and grew up as Muslims, but of course some will question this in their privacy and even have strong connection to their kinsmen with the other religion, but outside because of fear as Gamavor mentioned they will tow the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aghzar Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 What I find funny is how some people find similarities in non existent realms. Compare this: With this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrFijvr6geo pezevenk sounds that torture one's senses and tell me where is the similarity??? If you are addressing me with these videos, i agree there is no similarity between them. However neither has anything to do with what I was talking about. i was talking about dance steps, not music. you can refer to my previous comments for more information. By the way, that video of yorgantz is not an actual sepastatsi folk song but rather yorgantz or someone else has made up these lyrics themselves, to the tune of the old song "vart kaghelen goo kas, yar". vart kaghelen goo kas yar, tzerkt mder e poush@ char, yes g@ dashem poush@ char, tsavt al arnem, siroon yar. parev door, siroon yar, arevi dag mi genar, shookt var iynalov, im sirds chi timanar. as to the turk singing, who is comparing his singing to yorgantz, or to the sepastia bar? i certainly am not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted June 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 I don't think so gamavor. Maybe in the beginning with their ancestors they converted due to fear, but I believe the new generation feels and believes in Islam. It's just strange for me to see Muhammedian Armenians... Hamshens from Caucasus are much more open to their heritage and less religious. They fully realize that Islamization was something that was imposed over them and from personal encounters with them my impression is that they don't want to talk about it. Turkish Hamshens until recently were not even aware that Armenia exists. Some of them even refuse to believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 (edited) Fear! Fear of what? That they will be persecuted by those furks or rejected by their Armenian kin? Edited June 27, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted June 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Both I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 I'm not even gonna get into the origins of any of the dances/music, since I simply do not know. But I did want to comment on the Hamshen people...I saw an interview once with some of them, in their local environment...it provoked the strangest feelings in me. I mean, here are Armenians, speaking Armenian, knowing they are Armenian, knowing their history....and yet they are Muslim... darorinag... It goes to show that religion does not determine cultural identity. Compare this: Dude, MARTEN YORGANTZ! I grew up with this guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Armenian dance in Taiwan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkzv23I7Vvg...feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted December 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 JAN to the max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted March 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Sev acherov aghchik, la-lala-la lala-la -la la! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 (edited) Military Kochari http://www.viddler.com/explore/Armen_Reporter/videos/1/ Kochari-Քոչարի Did Robert invent this dance? (I could find only one entry on Wiki where it says the dance is original from Kars.) From the Hanragitaran ՔՈՉԱՐԻ- Հայկական ժողովրդաականտղամարդկանց խմբապար: Պարաձեւում քայլերը խրոխտ են, կտրուկ, մեծ ծնկածալերով ու ծունկոտրուկներով: Կատարում են իրար սեղմած ձեռքերի անքակտելի սեղմումով, գլոխխները բարձր, կիսաշրջանակ կամ ուղիղ գծով: Տարբեր տեսակներ, ըստ տեղավայրի, Ապարանի, Ալաշկերտի, Մուշի եւլն:… Կատարւում է շուռնայի եւ դհոլի նուագով: Kochari is a popular Armenian men’s group dance. It may be in a semicircular or straight line formation. The steps are masculine and daring. It is danced firmly hand in hand, with rhythmic bends of the knee, the head held up. There are several versions of it depending on the geographic origin, like thet of Aparan, Alashkert or Moush. It is usually danced to the music of zurna and dhol. (not oud and dumbek) ----- And a bonus - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH4MNRwXcsE ==== ARMENIAN DANCE WITH A ROUSING KICK Pamela Squires The Washington Post September 29, 2008 Monday Regional Edition The Sayat Nova Dance Company puts on one heck of good show. The Boston-based Armenian folk dance troupe helped the local community celebrate Armenian independence day with a rousing program Saturday at a packed Lisner Auditorium. Sayat Nova is a community-based, nonprofit organization. The 61 dancers' technical level is a far cry from the snap and crackle of professional folk-dance troupes such as the State Dance Ensemble of Armenia, on which this one patterns its style. Yet Sayat Nova director Apo Ashjian has been to Armenia to study with State Dance Ensemble choreographers, and it shows. Sayat Nova is an exceptionally well rehearsed group, with impeccable ensemble work and tasteful costumes. Every arm is at the same angle and every knee flexed at the exact same height, giving performances the wow factor critical to the folk dance genre. The women appeared to float through the complicated changing formations, stately in crowns and long dresses trimmed with heavy brocade. The men, arms linked, moved as a single, powerful entity. Such line dancing may look simple, but it is not by any means, for quality of movement must also match, be it tautness in a locked-knee bounce or just the right rebound from a dip. It would have been helpful to screen an English translation of the poems by Sayat-Nova, the 18th-century Armenian troubadour for whom the company is named, that were read in Armenian intermittently throughout the evening. Still, the success of the evening was in some ways a foregone conclusion. For the largely Armenian diaspora audience, the sounds and sights were laden with meaning and the air crackled with powerful emotions. Edited October 12, 2008 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Em Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 The bride dances very gracefully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Em Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Em Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zQHD5qIF6Y...feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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