Hayastan, Haiasa, Haik, Armeniya

[Arpa]

When and where did we start calling our Homeland Hayastan?

Most classical literature uses Haik, Mets Haik and Poqr Haik. Tigran II the Great united the both under one title, Mets Haik.

 

Some time ago TK had this;

"How many of you call Armenia "Hayastan"?

Do Greeks say Hellastan? Do Georgians say Sakartsan?

No it's Hellas and Sakartvelo.

Stan is land in Persian. Why use a foreign name for your homeland?

Armenia in Armenian is Hayq, like Georgia is Virq and if i'm not mistaken Greece would be Hellada.

Is Armenia still a khanate or a caliphate?

 

Does ROA have language reform policies?"

 

http://armenians.com/forum/index.php?showt...topic=7155&st=0

We all but ignored the thread.

 

The following is from; http://www.digilib.am/

Note that Anania does not use the word "Hayastan", he uses Haik, (see bold). Also note some of the classical names of localities.

I cannot ascertain what Khorenatsi called our Homeland as the above site is incomplete.

For those who cannot read the AM Font and Grabar the highlighted (bold) reads "Mets Haik".

 

Shirakatsi: 7th century.

 

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ºõÃÝ»ñáñ¹ª ä³ñëϳѳÛù Û»ÉÇó Ï³Û Îáñ׿Çó ³é ²ïñå³ï³Ï³ÝÇõ£ àõÝÇ ·³õ³éë ÇÝÝ, áñ ¿© ÎáõéÇ׳Ý, سñÇ, Âñ³÷Ç, ²óáõ»ñë, Àéݳ, î³µ»ñë, ¼³ñ»Ñ³õ³Ý, ¼³ñ»õ³Ý¹, л

 

==========

And now, for the first time "Hayastan" appears.And here again the highlighted (bold) reads "Hayastan ashkharhi".

Agathangelos: 5th century.

 

гñáõ³Í »õ ·»ñáõÃÇõÝ Ð³Û³ëï³Ý ³ß˳ñÑÇÝ, »õ ½»ñÍáõÙÝ îñ¹³ï³Û Ç Ó»éÝ ¹³Û»Ï³ó Çõñáó Ç ¹áõéÝ Ï³Ûë»ñ, »õ Û³ñ»ÉÝ ³é ݳ ¶ñÇ·áñÇ áñ¹õáÛ ²Ý³Ï³Û, áñ ϳÛñ Ç ÏáÕÙ³Ýë Úáõݳó£

ºõ »Õ»õ ǵñ»õ Éáõ³õ ½³Ûë ³Ù»Ý³ÛÝ Ã³·³õáñÝ ä³ñëÇóª ½áõ³ñ׳ݳÛñ, ½áõ³ñóݳÛñ, ï³õÝ Ù»Í áõñ³Ëáõû³Ý ³éÝ¿ñ ½³õñÝ ½³ÛÝ, »õ µ³½áõÙ áõËï ³ïñáõ߳ݳóÝ Ï³ï³ñ¿ñ: ¼³õñ³ÅáÕáí ÉÇÝ¿ñ, ˳ճÛñ ·Ý³Ûñ, ³ëå³ï³Ï ë÷é¿ñ ½ÏáÕٳٵù г۳ëï³Ý ³ß˳ñÑÇÝ. ½Ë³õëáõÝ »õ ½³Ý³ëáõÝ, ½Í»ñ »õ ½ïÕ³Û, ½»ñÇï³ë³ñ¹ »õ ½Ù³ÝáõÏ ³é ѳë³ñ³Ï ˳ճóáõó³Ý¿ñ Ç ·»ñáõÃÇõÝ:

²Ý¹ áÙÝ åñÍ»³É ³åñ»óáõó³Ý¿ñ Ç ÑÇÝ¿ ³ÝïÇ Ûáñ¹õáóÝ Êáëñáíáõ ó·³õáñÇÝ Ð³Ûáóª Ù³ÝÏÇÏ ÙÇ ÷áùñÇÏ, ³ÝáõÝ îñ¹³ï. ³é»³É ¹³Û»Ï³óÝ ÷³Ëáõó»³É Ç ¹áõéÝ Ï³Ûë»ñ Ç ÏáÕÙ³Ýë Úáõݳó: ºõ ½»ñÏÇñÝ Ð³Ûáó ³ÛÝáõÑ»ï»õ »Ï»³É ³ñù³ÛÇÝ ä³ñëÇó ÛÇõñ ³ÝáõÝ ½ï»ÕÇëÝ ³Ýáõ³Ý¿ñ. »õ ½½³õñëÝ Úáõݳó ÷³Ëëï³Ï³Ý ³ñ³ñ»³É Ñ³É³Í³Ï³Ý ï³Ý¿ÇÝ ÙÇÝã»õ Ç ë³ÑÙ³Ýë Úáõݳó: ìÇÑë ÷áë³óáõó»³Éª ë³ÑÙ³Ýë ѳëï³ï¿ÇÝ, »õ ï»ÕõáÛÝ ³ÝáõÝ »¹»³É ¸ñáõÝë öáëÇó, ³é ï»Õ»³õÝ áñáõÙ êáÛ½Ý Ïáã¿ÇÝ: ºõ ½³ÛÉ Ùáñ¹ÇÏ »ñÏñÇÝ Ë³Õ³óáÛó, »õ ½³ß˳ñÑÝ ÛÇÝùÝ ·ñ³õ»³ó:

 

²ñ¹ª »ñû³É, ëÝ»³É »õ áõë»³É îñ¹³ï¿ë ³é ÏáÙëÇ áõÙ»ÙÝ ÈÇÏÇ³Ý¿ë ³ÝáõÝ Ïáã»ó»ÉáÛ: ÆëÏ áñ¹Ç ä³ñûõÇÝ áñ Ç ÏáÕÙ³Ýë ÚáõÝ³ó ·³Õû³óª ëݳݿñ »õ áõë³Ý¿ñ Ç Î»ë³ñÇ³Û Î³å³¹áíϳóõáó ù³Õ³ùÇÝ. »õ Ù»ñÓ³õáñ»³É ½Ý³ ëÝáÛó ¹³Û»Ï³õù »ñÏÇõÕÇõÝ øñÇëïáëÇ. »õ áõë»³É »õë ½ùñÇëïáë³Ï³Ý ¹åñáõû³Ý ѳݷ³Ù³Ýë ÁÝï³ÝÇ »Õ»³É ·ñáó ²ëïáõÍáÛ© »õ Ù»ñÓ»³É Û»ñÏÇõÕ î»³éÝ, áñáÛ ³ÝáõÝ ×³Ý³ã¿ñ ¶ñÇ·áñÇáë: Ƶñ»õ ï»Õ»Ï³ó³õ Ç ¹³Û»Ï³óÝ Ñ³Ûñ»ÝÇ ·áñÍáóÝ áñ »Õ»³ÉÝ ¿Çݪ »É »õ ·Ý³ó ³é îñ¹³ïÇáë Áëï Ñ»ßï å³ßï³Ù³Ý: ºõ óùáõó³Ý¿ñ ½³ÝÓÝ, »õ ½³ÛÝ ÇÝã Ç í»ñ áã ѳݿñ, ÿ á°Ûñ, ϳ٠áõëïÇ°, ϳ٠á°ñå¿ë, ϳ٠½Ç³°ñ¹. ½³ÝÓÝ Ç Í³é³ÛáõÃÇõÝ ïáõ»³É Ç Ñݳ½³Ý¹áõû³Ý å³ßï¿ñ ³é³çÇ Ýáñ³:

 

Àݹ ųٳݳÏë Áݹ ³ÛÝáëÇÏ Çß˳ÝÝ Úáõݳó Ç Ñ³É³Í»É Ï³Ûñ ½»Ï»Õ»óÇ ²ëïáõÍáÛ: ÆëÏ Çµñ»õ ½·³ó»³É îñ¹³ïÇáë í³ëÝ ¶ñÇ·áñÇ, ÿ øñÇëïáë³Ï³Ý å³ßï³Ù³ÝÝ Ñ³Õáñ¹ ¿ª ëÏë»³É ³ÛÝáõÑ»ï»õ å³ïáõѳë³ÏáÍ ³éÝ¿ñ ½Ý³, »õ ³½·Ç ³½·Ç ³ñѳõÇñë ³ñϳݿñ Ç í»ñ³Û Ýáñ³. µ³½áõÙ ³Ý·³Ù Ç µ³Ý¹ë »õ Ç Ï³å³Ýë ï³Ýç³Ý³õù ݻտñ ½Ý³ª ÃáÕáõÉ Ç µ³ó ÉÇÝ»É ÝÙ³ Û»ñÏñå³·áõÃ»Ý¿Ý øñÇëïáëÇ, »õ Ç Ñݳ½³Ý¹áõÃÇõÝ ¹³éÝ³É ÝÙ³ ¹ÇóÝ ëÝáﻳó »õ åÕÍáõû³ÝÝ å³ßï³Ù³Ý

Wondering!

Edited January 11, 2004 by Arpa

[hagopn]

WOW! This is very interesting (albeit the font standard issue still gets in the way and requires extra "real-time" proofreading due to offset characters!)

 

Shirakatsi mentions as the 19th country to be "Hayk." It is interesting because it is plainly named "Hayk" with no ordinate number or adjective. Why is this "Hayk" considered as separate from "Metz Hayk," I wonder?

 

The 20th country (or tribe or nation?) is named "Arrajin Hayk."

 

The 21st country is named "Yerkrort Hark."

 

(*The 24th Koghkis and 25th Veria/Virq are treated as separate entities. Interesting. Today the Mengrel are proposing secession.)

 

The 27th is Metz Hayk that, according to the geographic delineation, stretches all the way to Mesopotamia!

 

"Hayastan" was perhaps adopted after the appointment/ascendance of the Arshakuni to the Armenian throne. The Arshakuni were Pars/Persian. There is no denying that, although the roots of the so-called "Pars" of "Parsava" of 9th century b.c. fame are once again in Armenia. The two languages of Pars and Armenian must have been very similar in that period. That's probably the reason Xenophone assumed that "all Armenians spoke Persian." He heard the similarity as well.

Edited November 23, 2003 by hagopn

[Khazar]

So can we assume a consistent 'k' ending (phoneme in linguistics?) for place names in Armenian?

 

Another example comes to mind: The region of Javakheti in Georgian is called 'Javakhk' in Armenian. Again the 'k'!!

 

By the way, there was a thread on the very same topic but on a message board for Dagestanis. Someone was proposing changing the whole name of 'Daghestan' - a turkic word meaning 'land of mountains', to a pure Caucasian name. Problem is, Dagestan consists of more than 30 different nationalities - some of which are Turkic. Anyways...

[Arpa]

So can we assume a consistent 'k' ending (phoneme in linguistics?) for place names in Armenian?

 

Another example comes to mind: The region of Javakheti in Georgian is called 'Javakhk' in Armenian. Again the 'k'!!

 

By the way, there was a thread on the very same topic but on a message board for Dagestanis. Someone was proposing changing the whole name of 'Daghestan' - a turkic word meaning 'land of mountains', to a pure Caucasian name. Problem is, Dagestan consists of more than 30 different nationalities - some of which are Turkic. Anyways...

Dear Khazar,

Assume that the "k" ending indicates place names?

Maybe in other cases but in this case as in many others, the best known of which is Hayk (you may see why this is in plural as well above where several Hay regions are mentioned), the K ending simply makes it plural. In fact if we were transliterate it correctly I would have spelled JavakhQ as the letter "keh" in the Armenian alphabet is the strongest of the three k's, it is a classical form but very mush in use now. The best known usage of the pluralizing Q can be seenin such common words that are habitually misused. "ach" in Armenian means eye and "ot/vot" means foot (the similarity in pronunciation is not an accident as "ped/pod" in Latin also mesans foot as in podiatrist), it is customary to use, erroneously the plural form of "achker" or "votker", simply redundant, it should either be acher and voter or achq or votq.

As to Javakh, once again the q ending is to impart to it the sense of plurality as in Armenian history the region was known as Javakhq, plural since it was not a single town but a group of towns and villages. It is recorded that during the Urartuan times the region was called Jabakha and it consisted, among others, of the towns of Skoutri, Dlivekn and Khozabir. The region was separated from Armenia in the year 338 AD and attached to Virq.

[Khazar]

Dear Arpa,

 

Thank you for the clarification! So interesting!

 

Edit: Like the word "kanayq", I guess that would be another example of this plural denoting phoneme...

Edited December 5, 2003 by Khazar

[TashnagZinvor]

Sakartvelo, broken down SAKAR: ancient Greek DISTANT...COLD, opposite of GREECE...velo BEING OF, its not Georgian or Caucasian in any sence.

 

Hellas, from HELLEN of Troy, Ellas a variant

 

Stan: ancient indo-european word indicating LAND, used on PEOPLE OF HAYASA by the ancient Persians (Hayasas came from Crete, also called HYKOS, rulers of egypt and greece), previous to Armen tribes. Armenia was called different things from within, variations could have developed by regional differences, Erebuni, Oronto, Elderayr, Armeni, Armenuhi, Hayastan, Haygazun, Hayrenik, Heyre, Holo, Holadz, Hoghuh, Hoghuya, etc etc, Dikran could have used Hayastan as a form of "hye pride", despite him conquering other tribes that werent hye, Dikran himself was Capadocian/Pontusian.

[TashnagZinvor]

Responce to Xenephones Armenian encounters:

Xenephone noted that Armenians spoke a language close to western Anatolian and northern macedonian (phyrgian, ionanian) because his soldiers could understand the language spoken by the tribes there during his advance Persia, you must have read that he heard Persian royalty speaking, either way persia had not advanced through western armenia, so its very likely that eastern armenians already had heavy persian influence

[hytga]

does n e 1 know if there's some relation between Haik and Hyksos in therms of ethnicity of is it just matter of similar prononciation?

[TashnagZinvor]

Hyksos is an ancient Egyptian word for "people of sea"...who came from Crete. Haik is a modern day Armenian myth whome never existed. It is obviously a shortened version of HYKSOS...Hayasa used later to describe the region which the culture of the people of Hyksos was spread...they were obviously a majority untill the Armens(of the Balkans) claimed the land for there own. I would say these are the two largest racial entities of the Armenians, Hays, who some say were semite (Meditaranneans) and Armens (Armenoid Europeans)

[hytga]

hyksos were regarded in egypt as "shepard kings" not "peopld of sea"

the sea peopl egyptians reffered to were (Mycenians, or Mynoans) i forgot exactly which one it was

Edited December 14, 2003 by hytga

[TashnagZinvor]

ahh my mistake, i was thinking of HITTITES, who were reffered to as PEOPLE OF THE SEA, or PEOPLE OF A THOULSAND GODS, could hyk be similar to the word hov, or hoviv? shepherd?

[Teutonic Knight]

ahh my mistake, i was thinking of HITTITES, who were reffered to as PEOPLE OF THE SEA, or PEOPLE OF A THOULSAND GODS, could hyk be similar to the word hov, or hoviv? shepherd?

Wrong again.

Hittites and the Egyptians called the proto-Greeks The People of the Sea.

[TashnagZinvor]

http://i-cias.com/e.o/ahhiyawa.htm

 

We could both equally be wrong, it's a matter of preference. Considering Hittites crossed the Aegian to Asia Minor, I consider the Sea People.

[hytga]

nothing Edited December 16, 2003 by hytga

[MosJan]

will it be corect to use Hayk or Haik ??

[Sebastia]

how about HAIQ?

[MosJan]

Sebastia - Q will not be corect - Q ~ Qar

 

it will be used as a name / for my newborn nephew

[Sebastia]

Sebastia - Q will not be corect - Q ~ Qar

 

it will be used as a name / for my newborn nephew

I see!!!!

 

I think Haik will be more appropriate. <_<

[Harut]

Movses jan, Հայկ is the correct one. all others are irrelavant.

[GuitARA]

Movses jan, Հայկ is the correct one. all others are irrelavant.

Well said, Harut.

 

I would say these are the two largest racial entities of the Armenians, Hays, who some say were semite (Meditaranneans) and Armens (Armenoid Europeans)

 

Does anyone one know what the differences in physical appearence of these two entities are ?

[Arpa]

Here is another variation on the same theme.

A quip from a booklet: Nshkharner Artsakhi Banahyusutian. One of the very few I can decipher.

 

QRISTOS@ @STI ASITS

Qristos@ pakhav ekav Hayatstun. @setsen; "Pa tu hbretsi ch@s?"

Asits;" Hishtegh vardapet ka en im erkirs a, hu ver indz ankuj oneh, en el im vertis a".

Translation:

Christ ran away and came to "hayatsTun". They asked him; "Bah! Are you not Hebrew"?

He answered; " Where there are vardapets is my country, whoever lends an ear to me is my child."

 

Hayats-tun?

Is it a regional dialectical twist or is it a conscious and deliberate attempt to show us the actual derivation of "hayastan" from the original of "hayats-tun/home of the hays"?

 

 

Note: Do you want to know what "nshkhar" really means?

You will be surprised as I was.

[nairi]

An accidental error of the scribe? Or is he consistent?

[Arpa]

An accidental error of the scribe? Or is he consistent?

I'm glad you asked.

It is not something I had not considered, as it is common for vowels to be interchanged as in A becomes O, OU, E or any other variety.

However, I think not in this case.

I have been searching the book for other uses of the word and I just found one other.

In the section "Asatsvatskner/Sayings" we find this;

"Hayatstun@ mi dashang akhjik ar, tourker@ pkhjtsren".

"hayatstun" spelled exactly the same as above.

I have no idea what "dashang" means.

"ar"=er, was.

"pkjtsren"=pakhtsutsin, stole, abducted.

[kakachik77]

The 20th country (or tribe or nation?) is named "Arrajin Hayk." 

that just means Aryan Armenia

Edited August 10, 2004 by kakachik77

[kakachik77]

Dear Khazar,

Assume that the "k" ending indicates place names?

Maybe in other cases but in this case as in many others, the best known of which is Hayk (you may see why this is in plural as well above where several Hay regions are mentioned), the K ending simply makes it plural. In fact if we were transliterate it correctly I would have spelled JavakhQ as the letter "keh" in the Armenian alphabet is the strongest of the three k's, it is a classical form but very mush in use now. The best known usage of the pluralizing Q can be seenin such common words that are habitually misused. "ach" in Armenian means eye and "ot/vot" means foot (the similarity in pronunciation is not an accident as "ped/pod" in Latin also mesans foot as in podiatrist), it is customary to use, erroneously the plural form of "achker" or "votker", simply redundant, it should either be acher and voter or achq or votq.

As to Javakh, once again the q ending is to impart to it the sense of plurality as in Armenian history the region was known as Javakhq, plural since it was not a single town but a group of towns and villages. It is recorded that during the Urartuan times the region was called Jabakha and it consisted, among others, of the towns of Skoutri, Dlivekn and Khozabir. The region was separated from Armenia in the year 338 AD and attached to Virq.

I agree, I remember from 5th or 6th grade Armenian class in Armenia where my teacher explained that "k" is the plural form in older Armenian, so "ner" is a newer version that sprung up not sure from where and by putting "K" at the end makes something plural. "hayk" simply is the land of many armenians. And I do agree with this entire thread subject, we should be called "Hayk" not "Hayastan".