Looking Forward?

[GAH]

Throughout it's history, Artsakh has always been Armenian. Let's face, despite Azeri revisionists. To prove it's been Armenian, there's ancient Armenian churches, fortresses, monestaries, and a population that's always been predominantly Armenian.

 

Now, looking forward, what needs to be done to guarranty peace and stability between these two countries. Realizations, Concessions, and Facts must be observed.

 

* Azeris must admit historical truths and give up historical claims to Artsax. Throughout it's history, Artsakh has always been Armenian. There are ancient Armenian churches, fortresses, monestaries, and a population that's always been predominantly Armenian to prove this.

 

* Land must be given back to Azerbaijan. Armenians must give back land to Azerbaijan. Things that need to be considered are to what extent and who will monitor the militarily strategic areas to guarantee no arms are allowed.

 

* Artsax Armenians should be given sovereignty either by uniting with Armenia, or to become an independant state. As was done in Yugoslavia, regions of ethnic majorities should be allowed to control their own fate. It is their God given right and the humane solution to the problem.

 

* Trust. I'm certain that this will not be reached in short period of time, but after a peaceful settlement, it will likely take two or three generations to make amends.

 

 

I'd like to know if anyone has any idea of REALISTIC and PRAGMATIC solutions to the Artsax settlement. What is the likely outcome?

[bellthecat]

Likely outcome: the Azeri army, equiped with the latest America weapons, paid for by American petrol dollars, supported by American made planes, will attack Karabagh from the east in overwhelming numbers, and squeeze it like a tube of toothpaste so that everyone will flee westward, exiting along that nice new Lachin road.

[Arpa]

Of all the ridiculous articles, maps of so called occupied territories, and even more inane claims with maps showing Azerbaijan occupying the southern half of Armenia as well as the southern half of Georgia, I found the following article most entertaining for lack of a better decription. Is there no limit to absurdity?

 

http://assembly.coe.int/documents/workingd...02/edoc9444.htm

[Arpa]

This may be the best map of ARMENIA, I said Armenia that we have seen in quite sometime. Note the brighlty colored areas, the so called occcupied territories. It could be only better if that other territory to the west of Meghri were to be brightly colored as well. :)

 

http://www.e-dersane.com/azerbaijan/azerbaijan_map.htm

[sen_Vahan]

'Likely outcome: the Azeri army, equiped with the latest America weapons, paid for by American petrol dollars, supported by American made planes, will attack Karabagh from the east in overwhelming numbers, and squeeze it like a tube of toothpaste so that everyone will flee westward, exiting along that nice new Lachin road.'

 

Likely scenario in this case: no other choice for armenians except to occupy Nachichevan. Further, lost Artsax and lost Nachichevan by Azeris.

[Teutonic Knight]

Likely outcome: the Azeri army, equiped with the latest America weapons, paid for by American petrol dollars, supported by American made planes, will attack Karabagh from the east in overwhelming numbers, and squeeze it like a tube of toothpaste so that everyone will flee westward, exiting along that nice new Lachin road.

That's a very unlikely outcome.

The likely outcome is that in the event of any azeribaboon aggression Baku will be occupied and renamed. Those oil fields under Armenian control wont be bad.

[Arpa]

That's a very unlikely outcome.

The likely outcome is that in the event of any azeribaboon aggression Baku will be occupied and renamed. Those oil fields under Armenian control wont be bad.

During and after the fall of Aghdam the rumors were so loud one could hear it all the way here that Artsakh and Armenian forces had camped at the outskirts of Yevlakh and Gandzak wainting for a nod from Moscow that would not come. However the prospect of losing both of those territories was the main reason for the ceasefire and the status quo.

I just looked at that map above and took a closer look at the so called refugee centers and refugee tents. Take a look again an tell us why they have tents all the way the border of Daghstan and Russia.

And Vahan, why stop at Nakhijevan, can't you see that a few miles away is Ararat and Ani? That is was some countries need total separation. That gooseneck connecting Turkey to Nakhijevan that the Turks traded with Iran can be blocked with one good sized tank or stick od dynamite to blow that bridge over Arax.

[sen_Vahan]

Arpa,

 

That's because I was more serious about the issue I realize that it may take Turkey several days to push the whole population of Armenia out of the country.

A peaceful solution to this problem is in my opinion necessary for Armenia. However, in the case of bellthecat's scenario there will be no choice other than to occupy more in order not to be occupied.

[Teutonic Knight]

Arpa,

 

That's because I was more serious about the issue I realize that it may take Turkey several days to push the whole population of Armenia out of the country.

A peaceful solution to this problem is in my opinion necessary for Armenia. However, in the case of bellthecat's scenario there will be no choice other than to occupy more in order not to be occupied.

lol

How is turdey going to do that?

[Teutonic Knight]

Step 1:

 

http://free.hostdepartment.com/H/Hayaser/m...nsion-map-l.jpg

 

Step 2:

 

http://free.hostdepartment.com/H/Hayaser/m...maps/Europa.gif

 

 

Edit: Must copy and paste links to view them.

Edited October 8, 2003 by Teutonic Knight

[bellthecat]

Likely scenario in this case: no other choice for armenians except to occupy Nachichevan. Further, lost Artsax and lost Nachichevan by Azeris.

Likely outcome in that case: Turkish intervention, Yerevan occupied by the end of the first week of hostilities.

[bellthecat]

However, in the case of bellthecat's scenario there will be no choice other than to occupy more in order not to be occupied.

But, is something like that going to be do-able? After its past defeats Azerbaycan is not going to act again until it is certain of a victory. And even if it was do-able, what would be the point. Azerbaycan can never be defeated, it is too big, and its territory is too deep. At best it can only loose battles.

 

It is obvious that a peaceful solution is the only desirable solution - but almost 10 years have past and it is still no nearer in sight. An international solution is the only way to go, and having a democratic Azerbaycan is probably needed for that, but Azerbaycan is now anything but democratic.

[sen_Vahan]

bellthecat,

 

Whether it is something doable is a good question for Azeris.

[Nikephoros_Phokas]

I am noticing that the muslim world is very fanatical compared to the non-muslim. Alot of these Palestinians living in states like Jordan are still in squalid refugee camps after all these years. Of course, it takes no genius to figure out why such refugees are not being integrated, because alot of these Arab states plan on sending them away when they destroy Israel to repopulate the area when the Jews are gone. With Azerbaijan much the same stance has been adopted. You must look at the refugees, if they are integrated this means the Azeri stance has changed, if in 20 years they are still living in camps, then the Azeris are just biding their time until they can attempt a new Armenian genocide. This is also done to help international opinion to their causes. Edited October 14, 2003 by Nikephoros_Phokas