History Of The Dashnak Party

[Shahan Araradian]

These are all just ideas Shahan. Have you tried implementing them?

 

Artsakh would be the best place to start.

Every reality is born in an idea. In this case, the idea is not mine...

 

I am fortunate to be working for someone who is implementing it, and learning from him.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Armenak]

Every reality is born in an idea. In this case, the idea is not mine...

 

I am fortunate to be working for someone who is implementing it, and learning from him.

Is this him?

[Dave]

You are not addressing the issues I bring up, and are simply parroting the ARF line, a line that lacks strategy and has been infested with spies and moles from foreign intelligence services for decades.

Who made up the Treaty of Sevres? Why should the Armenian people base the borders of Armenia on what Woodrow Wilson (a non-Armenian) has drawn Armenia to be?

 

And you are parroting Monte’s lines from his book! He’s not exactly what I would call a trustable source. Besides, he’s from the US so if anyone’s a spy and troublemaker, it’s him. We aren’t simply limited by the Sevres treaty in our demands. Sevres is merely a legal backing to our demands; the Turkish government of that time was forced to agree with it. This is why the Treaty of Sevres is overly cited in Tashnag circles.

 

It has also been populated by Turks (starting in the 600s - about 1400 years now) and by Kurds (even before the Turks -- about 2000 years themselves) [note the region called "Corduene" on maps of Ancient Armenia].

 

This is a lie often propagated by Turkish nationalists, who also say that the Hittites, Urartians, and even the Native Americans were Turkish. It is a fact that the Seljuk Turks came to Anatolia in the 11th century AD via Iran. They were heavily influenced by Iranian culture. Farsi and Arabic were official languages and were used by the educated people. That is why their self-consciousness as Turks is questionable.

 

Besides, we Armenians continued to have an important presence in our historical lands until the massacres of 1896 and 1915. These are how the Turks made their way through Anatolia; through pillage, rape, murder, genocide, etc.

 

Indeed, mostly Kurds live today in much of Western Armenia the ARF claims. And to Kurds, that is their homeland. You MUST take them into account (read "The Right To Struggle" by Monte Melkonian for details).

 

The “Kurds” never had a collective identity. A Kurd would identify himself with his tribe rather than with his nation which, in fact, doesn’t really exist. Read books from Armenian authors of the late 19th century, and you’d see how it was.

 

The only area with any prospect of returning to Armenia is the region immediately next to the border: Ararad, Ani, Gars, and maximum Erzerum.

 

Glad you agree with this, at least…

 

Try to focus not on acquiring land, but putting the land you already have to use. There is no use in acquiring land if you can neither populate it nor, therefore, hold it. You hold it by growing your population. You grow your population by a viable economy. A viable economy is created by a foreword-thinking, market-oriented government.

 

Continuing the struggle is important, but I forgot to tell you that Tashnagtsoutioun doesn’t only demand land. It also has had projects in Armenia, like building schools, restoring villages, etc. It is also a social organization that, along with its sister organizations, organizes popular events...

 

Hence the necessity of a homeland:

"...The relationship of a people to their homeland is crucial. A people will naturally have a difficult time maintaining a common cultural identity without a collective presence in their homeland. Only in its homeland can a people develop economically, culturally and socially as a homogeneous entity. In fact, this is the crux of why some of us consider it necessary to struggle to live in our homeland."

—Monte Melkonian, The Right to Struggle, p.13

 

The homeland is not complete. Besides, I'm not questioning the necessity of a homeland.

 

But Israel's greatest import is not necessarily goods. Much of it is high-tech. Do you want to compete with Turkey in rug production? Let them do the manual labor. We'll produce software, hardware, pills, and nanobots -- higher value-added items in the world economy, which you can export over the wire! Or at most in a few containers.

 

As Armenak said, these are mere ideas. Go ahead and implement them.

 

I will allow you to visit Armenia and see with your own eyes the amount of uninhabited, undeveloped, and abandoned arable land.

 

Oh please… Don’t you know that most of Armenia’s terrain is a semi-desert?

 

You shouldn't confuse wealth and prosperity with materialism. Having wealth does not mean one is materialistic. Desiring to have a strong economy is not being materialistic, it is a fact of life. Without a strong economy, you have few jobs, and people start looking ELSEWHERE for work. They go to Russia, they go to the U.S., or they SELL THEMSELVES in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE. That's what happens when you don't create prosperity and wealth in your own country.

 

I am obviously not against creating wealth and prosperity in Armenia – don’t make it look like I am - but that’s not the only thing that irritates the Armenian people. Our economic troubles are caused by the Turkish and Azerbaijani blockade of Armenia, as well as the earthquake in Northern Armenia and, most importantly, the separation of Armenia from the Soviet Union which had developed Armenia like never before.

 

«Միացեալ Հայաստան» is continuously being used by whom? The ARF? All 500,000 worldwide supporters? Pan-Turan is supported by over 35 million Turks.

 

Where did you get these numbers? Who said that pan-turan is supported by over 35 million Turks?

Besides, numbers don’t matter; Armenians have repeatedly proven this.

 

"In view of our strategic goal, and keeping in mind that objective conditions within "Western Armenia" have made it necessary to re-evaluate the future status of that region vis-a-vis the Armenians, we have argued that the much-vaunted "Free, Independent and United Armenia" is neither attainable nor preferable, from the position of the interests of the Armenian people. Propagating this chimerical goal only depletes our already limited human and material resources and wastes time which we cannot afford to waste."

—Monte Melkonian, The Right to Struggle, p.62

 

As you told it to me, why don’t you think by yourself?

Edited April 25, 2007 by Dave

[Shahan Araradian]

Is this him?

No.

[Shahan Araradian]

As you told it to me, why don’t you think by yourself?

I do. But I like to quote proven Armenian leaders.

 

As Armenak said, these are mere ideas. Go ahead and implement them.

Sure thing. But helping hands are always needed. And ideas that add to this base are also needed.

Edited April 26, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Shahan Araradian]

Our economic troubles are caused by the Turkish and Azerbaijani blockade of Armenia, as well as the earthquake in Northern Armenia and, most importantly, the separation of Armenia from the Soviet Union which had developed Armenia like never before.

No. Our economic troubles are not because of a conspiracy by our "enemies". It's because of us. We control our future. And ONLY we control our future. (P.S. you can still buy Turkish products in Armenia. The mattress on which I slept on in the hotel when I last stayed in Armenia was made there... So although there's an "official" blockade, trucks come from Turkey and back through Georgia...)

 

Leave the Turks out of Armenia's prosperity. They've got nothing to do with it.

 

The Diaspora can transform Armenia within 25 years (and the clock started ticking in 1991), so 9 years to go.

 

Increase relations between Diaspora and Armenia, by diasporan Armenian entrepreneurs making the first move and connecting economies (of host countries, of the world) back to Armenia, creating jobs, employing people, getting money into the hands of people in Armenia, increasing quality of life in Armenia, allowing Armenians to live happily in Armenia, creating a middle class, creating hope for better self-government as working-class Armenians have more voice, thereby removing monopolies on such things as importing gas, the Internet, etc.

Edited April 26, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Dave]

I do. But I like to quote proven Armenian leaders.

 

He's a fedayee, not an intellectual.

 

Sure thing. But helping hands are always needed. And ideas that add to this base are also needed.

 

Nobody would adhere to your ideas.

 

Leave the Turks out of Armenia's prosperity. They've got nothing to do with it.

 

That's totally false.

 

Increase relations between Diaspora and Armenia, by diasporan Armenian entrepreneurs making the first move and connecting economies (of host countries, of the world) back to Armenia, creating jobs, employing people, getting money into the hands of people in Armenia, increasing quality of life in Armenia, allowing Armenians to live happily in Armenia, creating a middle class, creating hope for better self-government as working-class Armenians have more voice, thereby removing monopolies on such things as importing gas, the Internet, etc.

 

Okay, then:

Let's forget the genocide and the Turkish+Azeri enemies that are waiting to complete the job.

Let's get on with our selfish careless occidental lifestyles.

Let's forget all the losses and work with the Armenia we have.

 

That's what you want.

[Dave]

No. Our economic troubles are not because of a conspiracy by our "enemies". It's because of us. We control our future. And ONLY we control our future. (P.S. you can still buy Turkish products in Armenia. The mattress on which I slept on in the hotel when I last stayed in Armenia was made there... So although there's an "official" blockade, trucks come from Turkey and back through Georgia...)

 

What is more interesting is the routes that go through Turkey to reach Europe.

[Shahan Araradian]

He's a fedayee, not an intellectual.

Monte Melkonian was an intellectual as much as a fedayee, just like Գարեգին Նժդեհ -- celebrated fighting intellectuals.

 

Nobody would adhere to your ideas.

Correction: *You* don't adhere to these ideas.

 

That's totally false.

You should lose your Turkish-orientation. You think too much about Turks. The only thing you should remember about the Turks and Azeris is that they will conquer Armenia if we don't build a strong state. (Hence the need for a strong Armenian military.)

 

Other than that, the economic success of the Armenian people is up to the Armenian people. Neither Turkey nor Azerbaijan decide that.

 

Okay, then:

Let's forget the genocide and the Turkish+Azeri enemies that are waiting to complete the job.

Let's get on with our selfish careless occidental lifestyles.

Let's forget all the losses and work with the Armenia we have.

 

That's what you want.

Don't forget the genocide; but Learn from the experience. The experience shouldn't bring you down. By being trapped in the past, we won't reach heights in the present nor in the future. Time is not on our side. If we get too trapped in the past and not think about creating a viable Armenia (by creating a viable Armenian economy and state) then the Turks would REALLY have conquered us. Because we weren't able to REBUILD. Because we got trapped into complaining about the past, about how the Turks butchered us and how we were paralyzed for life.

 

But we really Aren't paralyzed for life. We CAN rebuild Armenia. And the Turks cannot stop us as long as they're on the other side of the border! (We must make sure that our military can SEE to that!)

 

They say that what you truly believe you can get is what you end up getting. If you truly believe that you are paralyzed for life, then it's likely you will be -- it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. But if you truly believe that you can succeed, then you will. It's a simple change of belief.

 

(Do we want to boast about our great kingdoms, empires, scientists, and scholars from the Dark Ages? No, from before Christ? I'm afraid it's started to take shape in Armenia... Bragging about everything Armenian, that the Armenian nation taught the world civilization, etc. As if these people have been living in a bubble for 2000 years...

 

Or do we want real progress NOW, real progress and achievement in our FUTURE?)

 

We should ask ourselves: What good is genocide recognition in 30 years, if Armenia does not exist in 30 years? To REALLY have learned the lesson from the genocide is to understand the importance of a powerful military to protect physical existence. (Armenians held the other 2 key elements of a nation at that time: economic power, and human capital: numbers; but without the third leg - military power - the three-legged stool cannot stand.)

Edited April 28, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Zartonk]

Money isn’t everything. Leave your exorbitant materialism to rest.

 

Hate to say this, but it really is.

 

Besides, he’s from the US so if anyone’s a spy and troublemaker, it’s him

 

Not sure what that was about.

 

You are also too bent on the Turks. Realize that Turks aren't the complete picture, and that the future development of Armenia is also our job.

Edited April 28, 2007 by Zartonk

[Armenak]

Ամօթ է որ մեր սփիւռքը Հայաստանը անշահ, աղքատ վիճակի մէջ ձգած է: Վստայ եմ որ գիտեք թէ ինչու հայերէնով գրեցի:

[AK-47]

Ամօթ է որ մեր սփիւռքը Հայաստանը անշահ, աղքատ վիճակի մէջ ձգած է: Վստայ եմ որ գիտեք թէ ինչու հայերէնով գրեցի:

Բայց ժամանակը կը փոխուի: Շատ մարդ կը կարծէ դէ Սփիւրքը doesn't care as much as it should Հայաստանը: Միլիոներ կը ղրկուին Հայաստան ամէն տարի: Նոյնիսկ մենք երբ երեխայ էինք դպրոցը, ինչ որ կրնայինք կը հաւաքէինք որպէզսի «Հայաստանի որբերուն» ղրկէինք դրամ: Քիրք Քէրքորեանը միլիոններ կու տայ եւ այլն: Պէտք է Հայաստանի կարաւարութեան կաշակիր (corrupt) անձերը մաքրուին: Այն սահմաններու գոցումն ալ բնաւ չօգնեց Հայաստանի տնտեսութիւնը: Anyway, վերջերս տնտեսութիւննիս double digitsով կը բարցրանանայ եւ նաեւ, Հայաստանը մօտ ատետեն պիտի uranium ծախելու սկսի որ լաւ դրամ կը բերէ մեզի եւ self-sufficiant quanitity-ով ունինք մեզի համար եղեր: Պէնզինի relianceնիս պիտի գիչնայ եւ շատ դրամ պիտի պահենք գրպաննիս:

[Dave]

You should lose your Turkish-orientation. You think too much about Turks. The only thing you should remember about the Turks and Azeris is that they will conquer Armenia if we don't build a strong state. (Hence the need for a strong Armenian military.)

 

Unfortunately, you have completely distanced yourself from your great-grandparents and family. You should instead head towards the future while not forgetting about the past. You also have to accept the fact that Turks and Azeris are our troublesome neighbours and won’t disappear in the future. We need to deal with them one way or another, whether we like it or not.

 

Other than that, the economic success of the Armenian people is up to the Armenian people. Neither Turkey nor Azerbaijan decide that.

 

That’s true. But they’ve imposed a blockade and the Armenian people can’t ignore that.

 

Don't forget the genocide; but Learn from the experience. The experience shouldn't bring you down. By being trapped in the past, we won't reach heights in the present nor in the future. Time is not on our side. If we get too trapped in the past and not think about creating a viable Armenia (by creating a viable Armenian economy and state) then the Turks would REALLY have conquered us. Because we weren't able to REBUILD. Because we got trapped into complaining about the past, about how the Turks butchered us and how we were paralyzed for life.

 

Creating a viable Armenian state is obviously important. The republic is in fact the only thing we have for now, and it is our duty as Armenians to strengthen it. In regards to the genocide issue, we can’t do much for the moment other than countering Turkish denial and stupidities. (I expect that you're not against this.) Anything else wouldn’t be realistic and would be a waste of time and energy. The ARF obviously realizes all of this today. It also realizes the fact that the lands issue is a distant one, but keeps it alive regardless. I think that it is doing the right thing in keeping it alive.

 

But what do you consider “being trapped in the past”?

In reality, the diaspora complains about the genocide because it is the only reason why the diaspora exists. Our Anatolian origins are even reflected in our family names.

 

But we really Aren't paralyzed for life. We CAN rebuild Armenia. And the Turks cannot stop us as long as they're on the other side of the border! (We must make sure that our military can SEE to that!)

 

That’s right. We’re assisting the rebirth of Armenia, and we have to make sure that it matures well.

 

They say that what you truly believe you can get is what you end up getting. […] But if you truly believe that you can succeed, then you will. It's a simple change of belief.

 

The same can be said about the Armenian demands for land.

By the way, our demands for land are even reflected in the emblem of the Armenian republic, with Ararat right in the center, and with the ancient dynasties of the Arshakounis, Artaxiads, Bagratunis, and Roupenids.

 

Do we want to boast about our great kingdoms, empires, scientists, and scholars from the Dark Ages? No, from before Christ? I'm afraid it's started to take shape in Armenia... Bragging about everything Armenian, that the Armenian nation taught the world civilization, etc. As if these people have been living in a bubble for 2000 years...

 

What are you talking about?

 

Or do we want real progress NOW, real progress and achievement in our FUTURE?)

 

Of course, the republic exists today and has to be defended for future Armenians.

 

We should ask ourselves: What good is genocide recognition in 30 years, if Armenia does not exist in 30 years? To REALLY have learned the lesson from the genocide is to understand the importance of a powerful military to protect physical existence. (Armenians held the other 2 key elements of a nation at that time: economic power, and human capital: numbers; but without the third leg - military power - the three-legged stool cannot stand.)

 

I’m not against the development of the Armenian military. I’ve never said that!

[Shahan Araradian]

You should lose your Turkish-orientation. You think too much about Turks. The only thing you should remember about the Turks and Azeris is that they will conquer Armenia if we don't build a strong state. (Hence the need for a strong Armenian military.)

Unfortunately, you have completely distanced yourself from your great-grandparents and family. You should instead head towards the future while not forgetting about the past. You also have to accept the fact that Turks and Azeris are our troublesome neighbours and won’t disappear in the future. We need to deal with them one way or another, whether we like it or not.

No. They will be glad to know that the Armenian people decided to learn from their tragedy, instead of become consumed by it. Their tragedy was that while the Armenian "revolutionaries" were demanding more rights for Armenians in Constantinople and Europe, the unarmed and undefended Armenians in the Armenian provinces of the Ottoman Empire ended up taking the hit when the Turks started to view Armenians as a threat -- a view point that was deserved or not.

 

My family will rest assured that Armenians adapted and are now defending themselves against their enemies. And also that they are Rebuilding Armenia; and have not been stuck in the past, in the pain that they went through. That Armenians transcended the pain, that the Turks were not able to bring us down.

 

When you've taken a hit and you're heading into the future, you must leave behind all of your excess baggage, taking only what's necessary. What is necessary to know about our recent past is only this: Turks and Azeris will conquer Armenia if we don't build a strong state. And also that a strong state is desirable for having Armenians living happily as Armenians, that only in one's own country can a people develop culturally, economically, and politically as a HOMOGENEOUS entity. The greater the time and extent of a people's living on foreign soil, the greater the HETEROGENEITY of the people, the greater the "division", and eventually, dissolution.

 

What is a "strong state"? A strong state consists of:

1. a strong economy

2. a strong military

3. a growing human population (with its vibrant culture and cohesive community)

Edited April 28, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Shahan Araradian]

 

They say that what you truly believe you can get is what you end up getting. […] But if you truly believe that you can succeed, then you will. It's a simple change of belief.

The same can be said about the Armenian demands for land.

By the way, our demands for land are even reflected in the emblem of the Armenian republic, with Ararat right in the center, and with the ancient dynasties of the Arshakounis, Artaxiads, Bagratunis, and Roupenids.

You have to be careful about what you wish for and believe in, though. It has been argued that a "United Armenia" (meaning a geographically enlarged Armenia including the 12 Armenian provinces, or that defined by the Treaty of Sevres) is NOT desirable for Armenia today.

 

By pursuing something that is undesirable, you not only end up with something that's undesirable, but you lose valuable time by not working on the things that are most critical to your survival: building a viable state from the lands you already hold. Which today translates into economic growth (specifically the creation of jobs) in order to reverse the dangerous trend of Armenia's population decline. The way you keep your human capital is by providing a decent place to live for your population: and jobs are a simple requirement. How do you create sustainable jobs? Since we'll be importing things like cars and refrigerators, we must be providing value to the rest of the world. This is done by creating corporations that are NEEDED in the global economy. How do you become needed? By providing services that are needed.

 

Parroting the disastrous notion of acquiring more land in the subconscious of diasporan Armenians is not wise, when the real challenge is to create a sustainable Armenia on a 45,000 sq km land which is more than enough for 1.5 to 20 million Armenians.

[Dave]

No. They will be glad to know that the Armenian people decided to learn from their tragedy, instead of become consumed by it. Their tragedy was that while the Armenian "revolutionaries" were demanding more rights for Armenians in Constantinople and Europe, the unarmed and undefended Armenians in the Armenian provinces of the Ottoman Empire ended up taking the hit when the Turks started to view Armenians as a threat -- a view point that was deserved or not.

 

You have it wrong. I don’t know where you’re fishing this distorted information. They were demanding more rights for the Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire, especially the ones living in the east, who were persecuted regularly. The Armenians in Europe (France) weren’t mistreated. They work in the interests of all Armenians.

 

My family will rest assured that Armenians adapted and are now defending themselves against their enemies. And also that they are Rebuilding Armenia; and have not been stuck in the past, in the pain that they went through. That Armenians transcended the pain, that the Turks were not able to bring us down.

 

You’re just taking a wild guess.

Don't you care about revenge?

 

When you've taken a hit and you're heading into the future, you must leave behind all of your excess baggage, taking only what's necessary.

 

What are you calling excess baggage ?

 

What is necessary to know about our recent past is only this: Turks and Azeris will conquer Armenia if we don't build a strong state. And also that a strong state is desirable for having Armenians living happily as Armenians, that only in one's own country can a people develop culturally, economically, and politically as a HOMOGENEOUS entity. The greater the time and extent of a people's living on foreign soil, the greater the HETEROGENEITY of the people, the greater the "division", and eventually, dissolution.

 

This has nothing to do with my comment, but yeah, our strength is in our unity. It is an obvious fact.

 

You have to be careful about what you wish for and believe in, though. It has been argued that a "United Armenia" (meaning a geographically enlarged Armenia including the 12 Armenian provinces, or that defined by the Treaty of Sevres) is NOT desirable for Armenia today.

 

By pursuing something that is undesirable, you not only end up with something that's undesirable, but you lose valuable time by not working on the things that are most critical to your survival: building a viable state from the lands you already hold.

 

You are entitled to your opinion. By the way, it has been argued by who?

 

Which today translates into economic growth (specifically the creation of jobs) in order to reverse the dangerous trend of Armenia's population decline. The way you keep your human capital is by providing a decent place to live for your population: and jobs are a simple requirement. How do you create sustainable jobs? Since we'll be importing things like cars and refrigerators, we must be providing value to the rest of the world. This is done by creating corporations that are NEEDED in the global economy. How do you become needed? By providing services that are needed.

 

This is nothing special. Everybody realizes that the Armenians need jobs and a good economy.

 

Parroting the disastrous notion of acquiring more land in the subconscious of diasporan Armenians is not wise, when the real challenge is to create a sustainable Armenia on a 45,000 sq km land which is more than enough for 1.5 to 20 million Armenians.

 

It is true that we are left with Armenia for now, i.e. 29,800, not 45,000.

Before counting Karabagh and the surrounding lands in Armenia, tell me how it`d be recognized.

 

[Dave]

You still didn't explain how you're going to deal with Turks and Azeris. Building a strong military isn't enough. You can't simply ignore them. Edited April 29, 2007 by Dave

[Shahan Araradian]

You still didn't explain how you're going to deal with Turks and Azeris. Building a strong military isn't enough. You can't simply ignore them.

You keep their military out of Armenia by building a strong Armenian army. That's how you deal with your enemies. With the rest of the world, you establish trade agreements (usually it's done with multi-national corporations). Our government, however, must provide two things:

1. Ensure a powerful military

2. Provide a legal framework for a competitive market economy to take form (no monopolies must be tolerated!! That includes communication networks -- e.g. ArmenTel -- AND for energy -- e.g. the guy who's got a monopoly on importing gas. Oh, and also the guy who's got a monopoly on cement production)

 

Այսկէ զատ ի՞նչ կ'ուզէս: Այնքան ատէն որ թուրքերէն եւ ազերիներէն պաշտպանուած ենք, իրենց հետ գործ չ'ունինք: Առեւտուրի կողմէ՝ արդէն թուրք եւ հայ վաճարականներ իրարու հետ կ'աշխատին, եւ այս միայն աւելի պիտի զարգանայ:

Edited April 29, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[AK-47]

You keep their military out of Armenia by building a strong Armenian army. That's how you deal with your enemies. With the rest of the world, you establish trade agreements (usually it's done with multi-national corporations). Our government, however, must provide two things:

1. Ensure a powerful military

2. Provide a legal framework for a competitive market economy to take form (no monopolies must be tolerated!! That includes communication networks -- e.g. ArmenTel -- AND for energy -- e.g. the guy who's got a monopoly on importing gas. Oh, and also the guy who's got a monopoly on cement production)

 

Այսկէ զատ ի՞նչ կ'ուզէս: Այնքան ատէն որ թուրքերէն եւ ազերիներէն պաշտպանուած ենք, իրենց հետ գործ չ'ունինք: Առեւտուրի կողմէ՝ արդէն թուրք եւ հայ վաճարականներ իրարու հետ կ'աշխատին, եւ այս միայն աւելի պիտի զարգանայ:

I totally agree on the no-tolerance on monopolies. In regards to the military, we're currently in a mini-arms race with Azerbaijan and we need to desperately boost our economy so we could match their level of modernisation. Also, I think something that would help us alot is less and less corruption. I mean not only in government but cops et al.

Edited April 29, 2007 by AK-47

[Shahan Araradian]

You have it wrong. I don’t know where you’re fishing this distorted information. They were demanding more rights for the Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire, especially the ones living in the east, who were persecuted regularly. The Armenians in Europe (France) weren’t mistreated. They work in the interests of all Armenians.

That was a bad sentence construction on my part; What I meant is that Armenians (by their activities in Constantinople and Europe) were demanding rights for Armenian living in the OE. But those Armenians in the OE were defenseless. While the demands were being made in good faith, an already intolerant Turkish society grew even more intolerant towards the Armenians with the actions of Armenians in Constantinople and Europe.

 

This was one of the largest miscalculations. And the lesson to learn is the importance of military power in ensuring a group's physical existence.

[Shahan Araradian]

Don't you care about revenge?

I used to. Թո՞ւրք մեռցնելով: Քեզի վստահեցնեմ թէ թուրք մեռցնելով աւելի ուրախ պիտի չ'ապրինք որպէս ժողովուրդ (Նէմէսիսը եւ «Զինեալ Պայքարը» կը բաւէն որպէս «վրէժխնդրութիւն»): Միայն մեր ազատ եւ ուրախ ապրելով է մեր պապենական հողերուն վրայ որ կրնանք ուրախ ըլլալ որպէս ժողովուրդ:

 

Եթէ դեռ չես համոզուած... Նոյնիսկ եթէ յաչողիս Թուրքիոյ բոլոր բնակչութիւնը մաքրել, վստահ եղիր թէ Եւրոպայի միլիոնաւոր թուրքերուն արդնցուցած կ'ըլլաս եւ անո՛նց մէջ արդար վրէժխնդրութիւն ստեղծած կ'ըլլաս: Եւ այդ պարագային, մեր «յեղափոխականներու» սխալը կրկնած կ'ըլլաս:

 

Եթէ Գաղտնի Բանակի ամէնէն յարգուած հրամանատարներէն (Մոնթէ Մելքոնեանը) մէկը կ'ըսէ թէ Հայ Դատը չի լուծուիր թուրք սպաննելով, ես կը յարգեմ այդ մէկը: (Կը դելաթրեմ կ'արդաս «The Right to Struggle» գիրքը

 

While many of us feel a strong emotional attachment to our homeland, we should not allow emotions to deter us from speaking of things the way they really are. It should be remembered that this very surrender to emotion has led to insane and counterproductive atrocities on the scale of the Ankara and Istanbul suicide assaults, as well as the Orly bombing and the Lisbon disaster. By surrendering to emotions we enable the A.R.F. and slogans like "Hagop Hagopian" to lead thousands of well-intentioned patriots down a path which does not lead to Armenia, and to sacrifice the lives of young fighters in campaigns which directly contradict the interests of the Armenian people. If we are to achieve even the minimum requirements for Armenian national self-determination, we must approach problems in a serious and sober manner.

—Monte Melkonian, The Right to Struggle, p.60

 

Վրէժխնդրութիւնդ որ արիւնիդ մէջ կը փորփոքի առ եւ «transform» ըրէ դրական աշխատանքի Հայաստանի տնտեսութիւնը զօրացնելու: Կամ... Հայաստանի բանակին անդամ եղիր: Կամ... գիտնական դարցիր որ Հայաստանի համար նոր զէնքերու տեսակներ կը պարունակէ: Կամ... զէնք արտադրող գործարան մը բաց (որ թէ Հայաստանի համար զէնքեր կ'արտադրէ, թէ ալ exportի համար

 

Ասոնք են ամէնէն լաւ ձեւերը «վրէժխնդրութեան»՝ հզօր Հայաստան ստեղծելով: Հայաստան մը ուրախ հայերով: Հայաստան մը որ թուրքին կը մաքրէ հազիւ որ սահմանը անցնի:

Edited April 29, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Dave]

The various revolutionary groups did try to organize the Armenian people militarily.

[Shahan Araradian]

I totally agree on the no-tolerance on monopolies. In regards to the military, we're currently in a mini-arms race with Azerbaijan and we need to desperately boost our economy so we could match their level of modernisation. Also, I think something that would help us alot is less and less corruption. I mean not only in government but cops et al.

Զէնքերը արդէն ցրի կու գան Ռուսիայէն: (Բայց պէտք է որ անկախ ըլլանք Ռուսիայէն ի վերչոյ): Ներային տնտեսութիւն պէտք ունինք աւելի՛ կարեւոր պատճարի մը համար (քան թէ զինամթերքի)՝ որպէսզի հայեր կրնան ապրիլ Հայաստան, որպէսզի Հայաստանի ժողովուրդը Հայաստան մնայ ու աճի:

[Dave]

Մոնթէն ինչո՛ւ ահաբեկչութեան դէմ կը խօսի: Ինքն իսկ ահաբեկիչ է:

 

Besides, one has to establish a distinction between ASALA, which committed those acts, and ARF.

Edited April 29, 2007 by Dave

[AK-47]

I used to. Թո՞ւրք մեռցնելով: Քեզի վստահեցնեմ թէ թուրք մեռցնելով աւելի ուրախ պիտի չ'ապրինք որպէս ժողովուրդ (Նէմէսիսը եւ «Զինեալ Պայքարը» կը բաւէն որպէս «վրէժխնդրութիւն»): Միայն մեր ազատ եւ ուրախ ապրելով է մեր պապենական հողերուն վրայ որ կրնանք ուրախ ըլլալ որպէս ժողովուրդ:

 

Եթէ դեռ չես համոզուած... Նոյնիսկ եթէ յաչողիս Թուրքիոյ բոլոր բնակչութիւնը մաքրել, վստահ եղիր թէ Եւրոպայի միլիոնաւոր թուրքերուն արդնցուցած կ'ըլլաս եւ անո՛նց մէջ արդար վրէժխնդրութիւն ստեղծած կ'ըլլաս: Եւ այդ պարագային, մեր «յեղափոխականներու» սխալը կրկնած կ'ըլլաս:

 

 

Թուրք սպաննելը միայն ձեւը չէ վրէժխնդրութեան այլ դրամի հատուցումը եւ հողի հատուցումը (even though the latter is disputed) As realistically and soberly we can approach the land claims, դեր դժուար է ապրիլ տեսնելով որ իմ եւ քու եւ Դաւիդին պապենական հողերը արիւնալի ձերքերու տակ է: Նկարները երբ տեսնես այն բոլոր հարուստ ու գեղեցիկ քաղաքներուն եւ միտքէղ կը հայհոյես այն շուներուն որ վրան նստեր էն, խելքդ կ՛ըսէ որ "պէտք չունինք այն հողերը at the moment" բայց սիրտդ կ՛այրի եւ ետ կ՛ուզէ ինչ որ մեր հայրերը եւ մեծ հայրերը կ՛ուզէին ետ ունենալ: ՀՅԴին հողի պահանջը լաւ բան է քանի որ միշտ ողջ կը պահէ այն երազը որ շատ Հայ ունի while at the same time կաշխատինք որպէսզի Հայաստանի տնտեսութիւնը զորացնենք եւ ինչ որ priority պէտք է ըլլայ at the moment for the survival of the fatherland.