Irish Writer Slams Israel's Stand On

[Armat]

Irish Writer Slams Israel's Stand on

Armenian Genocide in Jewish Paper

By Harut Sassounian

California Courier Publisher

 

The Israeli government's shameless position of not recognizing the Armenian

Genocide has had a devastating effect on its image abroad. Besides

offending Armenians, Israel's denialist policy has had the regrettable

effect of making people around the world less sympathetic towards Jewish

suffering in the Holocaust. After all, if Israeli officials, for

misperceived political gains from Turkey, are willing to deny another

genocide, wouldn't that cause a lessening of sympathy for the Jewish

victims of the Holocaust? How would Israeli officials feel if other nations

emulated their cynical behavior by starting to deny the Holocaust for some

ill-begotten political gain?

Armenians have repeatedly expressed their indignation at the Israeli

government's denial of the Armenian Genocide. Even more importantly, many

righteous Jews have severely criticized the position of Israel on this

issue. The Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz recently published a powerful

commentary by one of its regular columnists, Thomas O'Dwyer, castigating

the government of Israel for siding with Turkey on the denial of the

Armenian Genocide.

Contacted by phone in Israel, O'Dwyer told this writer that even though he

is an Irishman, he was deeply offended by the double standard practiced by

the Israeli government on the Armenian Genocide. He wanted to give the

Israeli officials a piece of his mind. He did not mince his words. Here are

some excerpts from his column:

"If the victims of genocides cannot depend on the support of the

descendants of the Holocaust - where on earth will anyone ever find truth

and justice? ...How sickening ... is it to watch the disgusting

machinations of the Jewish state when it comes to its cowardly refusal to

speak out stridently against the deniers of the Armenian genocide.

"After a newspaper item appeared ...saying that an [israeli] government

brochure mentioned that a 'third generation survivor of the Armenian

holocaust in 1915' would light a torch at the Independence Day ceremony,

Turkish embassy hysteria went into its customary overdrive in protest. In a

remarkable act of craven capitulation to denial, the Knesset and government

caved in and actually printed 2,000 new brochures for the ceremony. The

revisionist version of history expunged the truth and replaced it with a

description of the torch-lighter Naomi Nalbandian as a 'daughter of the

long-suffering Armenian people' and her grandparents as 'survivors of

historical Armenia, 1915.'

"The Ottoman Empire ethnically cleansed and murdered 1.5 million Armenians

between 1915 and 1918. The Turkish army drove hundreds of thousands of

Armenians through the Der Zor desert where they died from hunger and

thirst. What is more, the government sanctioned raids by Turkish soldiers,

who destroyed whole Armenian villages, not sparing even the women or the

children. The Armenian population was completely wiped out in Western

Armenia....

"Modern Turkey continues to vehemently deny these crimes against humanity

and fights ferociously around the globe to bury the historical facts. And

again this week - and not for the first time - we have witnessed the State

of Israel's complicity in the lie, because it is scared of upsetting its

only friend in the Muslim states. This is political expediency at its most

morally bankrupt. Tripping over itself in its stupid defense of the

untenable Turkish position, the Israeli Foreign Ministry has again and

again played an active role in suppressing even discussion of the issue.

" 'Outrageous,' is how [historian] Deborah Lipstadt ...has described the

Turkish denial. 'The Turks have managed to structure this debate so that

people question whether this really happened.' Now shouldn't that sound

familiar to any Jewish ear? ...Lipstadt was one of 150 scholars and writers

who signed a Washington Post ad condemning Turkey's persistent denial of

the Armenian genocide. Among the others signing was no less a person than

Prof. Yehuda Bauer, the academic director of Yad Vashem. 'We and many

others have accepted the United Nations definition of genocide and there

can be no argument about [the Armenian case] being genocide,' he said at

the time.

"During a similar row several years ago the then Armenian foreign minister

said in an interview: 'There is some discrepancy between Israel's words and

their deeds on genocide. Israel has to show a moral authority since we have

gone through a similar history and experience.'

"What is shocking is that there should be any question whatsoever of Israel

denying the murder of a nation. The sooner the Turks come clean, admit the

crimes of their great-grandparents, and get it over with, the better for

all humanity....

"Turkey's denials of the Armenian massacre will not endure - but the memory

of Israel's refusal to speak out against the denial just might. 'Who,

after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?' asked Adolf

Hitler when persuading his fellow thugs that a Jewish extermination would

be tolerated by the West.

"Of course there is one Turk you can quote who still commands almost

reverential respect from his fellow countryman - Kemal Ataturk, the

legendary founder of the modern nation. In an interview published on August

1, 1926 in The Los Angeles Examiner, Ataturk talked about the former Young

Turks in his country: 'These left-overs from the former Young Turk Party,

who should have been made to account for the millions of our Christian

subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse from their homes and

massacred, have been restive under the Republican rule.' When we have the

word of Ataturk himself, we don't need to be accused of 'pandering to the

views of the enemies and haters of Turks' as one Turkish diplomat once

wrote to me for daring to question the lie....

"The three rulers of Turkey as a triumvirate during the time of the

genocide were Jemal *****, Enver ***** and Talat *****. Of them, British

Viscount James Bryce said in a speech on October 6, 1915: 'The massacres

are the result of a policy which, as far as can be ascertained, has been

entertained for some considerable time by the gang of unscrupulous

adventurers who are now in possession of the government of the Turkish

Empire.'

"After the German ambassador persistently brought up the Armenian question

in 1918, Talat ***** said 'with a smile': 'What on earth do you want? The

question is settled. There are no more Armenians.'

"Later, Prince Abdul Mecid, the heir apparent to the Ottoman Throne, said

during an interview: 'I refer to those awful massacres. They are the

greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were

entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began

that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. I

asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres

that had been our shame and disgrace under [sultan] Abdul Hamid. The only

reply I could get from him was: 'It is decided. It is the program.'

"Keep on denying, folks. But remember, the dead won't let you forget."

O'Dwyer's critical words are fully justified given the Israeli government's

cowardly position on the Armenian Genocide. He should be highly commended

for his uncompromising support for the truth. The Jewish newspaper Ha'aretz

should also be commended for having the courage to publish a column that

strongly condemns the Israeli government on this issue.

[America-Hye]

Intersting that the Israeli Ministers who have most fervently expressed recognition of our Genocide have been liberals, with the exception of Peres who plays both sides of Israeli politics.

 

Contrast this with the present PM Sharon, who is a hawks- hawk, and cozy with the man in the US Whilte House.

[Caucasian]

Israel is the biggest stone on your way to make the world acept the genocide. Because they want to be seen as the only race that faced genocide(Holocaust) on the earth. If Armenian Genocide gets recognized, other nations will try to get money or lands this way Edited September 1, 2003 by Caucasian

[KnightOfArmenia]

It's not just for water that Israel stands against the Armenian Genocide; the policies they are pursuing against Palestinians now aren't what anyone would consider "mild." There is a fear among the government that if the Genocide gains full international recognition and reparations, either of land or of money, are paid, then the Palestinians would have a case against Israel some time in the future.

[Boghos]

Israel and slave workers/concentration camp inmates have been and still are compensated for the terrible crimes against them. Isn´t that enough of a precedent ?

 

Israel is alligned with Turkey solely out of realpolitik considerations. This is by the way how most if not all alliances are set up. The price for not believing this tends to be a high one.

Edited September 1, 2003 by Boghos

[America-Hye]

There is a Jewish Holocaust monopoly of unprecendented proportions. EVERYTHING about genocide is filtered through the Jewish sieve. We have the righteous Jews who understand our story, but there are some very powerful Jews and Jewish organizations who want to maintain this monopoly at all costs. Involved with this also is the EMBARASSMENT that many of the central operators of the Armenian Genocide were hidden apostate Jews, who were Moslem only on the surface. Thus the Jewish forces in the worldwide media want to keep the Genocide in "the can." They even lobby for other interests and interest groups to deny what happened to our families. No one can imagine what they put Harvey Weinstein through for his adamance to distribute the Ararat movie. Egoyan did not produce a movie of the quality of Shindler's List or Yentyl, yet they ragged on Weinstein nevertheless, caling him a traitor.

 

We need a Theodore Roosevelt to break up this monopoly like he broke up the Capitalist monopolies of the late 19th century.

[KnightOfArmenia]

Boghos, there was a difference in the Armenian and Jewish genocides, in so far as the ways that they were carried out. "Concentration camp" has become synonymous with "genocide" for many of these people, and if you weren't rounded up, put into a camp, and gassed, but were, instead, rounded up and left in the desert to die, or shot en masse, then it isn't the same thing. If the latter gains international backing as well as the former, they feel they might be in trouble.

[Boghos]

There is a Jewish Holocaust monopoly of unprecendented proportions. EVERYTHING about genocide is filtered through the Jewish sieve. We have the righteous Jews who understand our story, but there are some very powerful Jews and Jewish organizations who want to maintain this monopoly at all costs. Involved with this also is the EMBARASSMENT that many of the central operators of the Armenian Genocide were hidden apostate Jews, who were Moslem only on the surface. Thus the Jewish forces in the worldwide media want to keep the Genocide in "the can." They even lobby for other interests and interest groups to deny what happened to our families. No one can imagine what they put Harvey Weinstein through for his adamance to distribute the Ararat movie. Egoyan did not produce a movie of the quality of Shindler's List or Yentyl, yet they ragged on Weinstein nevertheless, caling him a traitor.

 

We need a Theodore Roosevelt to break up this monopoly like he broke up the Capitalist monopolies of the late 19th century.

I don´t disagree. I just don´t think that the Israel-Turkey axis has any meaningful such component. The Holocaust simiarly to the Genocide is much more a diaspora issue. Moreover it is abundantly clear that important (whatever that word means) Israeli and Jewish intellectuals and other prominent figures have come in defense of the Armenian position, including the director of research at Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Museum (this has been reported in this site at length).

 

It is obvious that the Jewish lobby has been supportinh Turkey in the US. Myself and others have posted to that effect. But, again, Turkey-Israel has a different genesis and the Jewish monopoly of Holocaust is more a consequence of others inability than anything else. Not that they don´t make an effort but we cannot atribute to them what essentially is not their responsibility. Unless we continue to blame the whole world for our problems, as usual.

[Palestine]

I, as a Palestinian and a human being, denounce all genocides and Holocausts

that have been perpetrated against all humans. It amazed though how ONE

group of people like to own a definite monopoly on suffering and deny

others their suffering in history. Any decent historian will tell you that what

happened to Armenians in 1915 was clear-cut genocide and a Holocaust. It

is the duty of every Armenian to educate world opinion about these facts. This

duty is double for the vast Armenian populace in the USA, where many Armenians

are educated and influencial. Lobby the congress toward recognition of your

Holocaust. Elie Weisel has no right to deny you what actually happened to you!!

Armenians should pool money and open a Armenian Holocaust Museum and invite

everyone, including the scum Weisel, so that he can see for himself the pictures

and the numbers of killed and displaced.

 

Turkey is a regime that continues to deny people such as the Kurds, even the basic right to speak Kurdish. Turkey is in denial to the events of 1915 much as Israel is in denial for what it did to us Palestinians in 1948. So the two pariah states have forged a common destiny and are close allies. Both states are offenders of human rights yet they get unprecedented support from the US. This is a travesty.

 

The Armenian people/organizations should forge ties with other people who have

suffered in recent histories so that the story may be told. Ties ought to be established with the African-Americans and Native Americans and Arab-Americans

and they ought to endorse candidates for President and donate money for candidates who are willing to listen and acknowledge history. The Jews have

turned the endorsements of candidates that support their agenda(Israel of course)

into an art. Why not the Armenians? The Armenians are very talented people and

have reached high places in the diaspora. It is a disservice for the victims of the

Armenian Holocaust that their story has not been told.

 

Long Live Armenia

Long Live Palestine

[America-Hye]

We Armenians welcome your support of our cause. As a small minority in the state of Israel, however, we can not take sides in your struggle. We undestand the plight of the Palestinians. Yet the problem is not Yossi Sarid or the other liberal Israelis. The problem is Ariel Sharon and his ilk. When I was in Jerusalem, I was shocked that Sharon had set up a residence in the middle of the Arab Moslem quarter. This residence was armed to the teeth with Israeli soldiers. I saw so many beautiful places in Israel. The Moslem Quarter of Old Jerusalem was definitely not one of them. Could not Sharon have found residence at a location within Israel more in line with his standing at the time?? He also made it his business to "tour" the Dome of the Rock just before his election with Barak. He KNEW that the Palestinians would go berserk. It was for his political purposes against Barak. He is to Israel what the Gamavors are to the Armenians, the one who goes out of their way to antagonize the opposition.

[Armat]

Palistine

I agree with your basic massage that Armenians should do everything possible not to let the Armenian Genocide become another forgotten tragedy with the Turkish footnotes of “so called Genocide” “deliberate relocation” which simply infuriate my being to the core. I do want to say that many prominent Jewish scholars did endorse a petition to recognize the AG along with many none Jews. In the end the ball is in our courts not in Turkish or Jewish. I strongly supported the Palestinian issues in the past even attended a fund raising event and contributed. Best wishes.

[Arpa]

I'll be damned!

Whatever happened to all our brothers ans sisters who have been drumming on the theme of "Armenians and Jews are made of the same material, our history, legacy, destiny, past present and prsent and future are parallel, that our salvation will come from TelAviv...blah, blah, blah". Ad nauseam ad infinitum.

It took me several posts to show the contrary to latest of which Mosjan Was looking for me to kiss me on the forehead.

It took us sometime, not me, I had known from time immemorial that we had absolutely nothing in common. It took some of us to finanlly see the light, so to speak, when the light shone from TelAviv to Ankara and visa versa. One had to be blind to not see this ten years, twenty years, fifty years and 5000 years ago.

I'll have to confess though, we do have one thing in common, that is our mutual xenophobia. No one can be a Jew except a Jew, no one can be an Armenian ecxept an Armenian (definitions please?).

To corroborate my point as to how many times we have used the word Jew/Jewish on this forum, I conducted a simple search, I had 20 , yes twenty pages with 20 items in each page that is 400 times that we used that word. I did not open them, I know what was said in 90% of them.

I challenge anyone to go to a Jewish site and see how many times they have mentioned "Armenian". How about a Paletinian site?

 

So, what else is new? How many times do we neeed to be hit over the head to finally open our eyes and see reality.

In closing. Palestinians, Jews, Armenians we all have our problems neither is exactly the same, each need to solve their problems best suited to their needs and dreams.

We wish everybody success and just resolution to their plight as long as it does not infringe on one another's rights and cause genocides.

[America-Hye]

Arpa,

 

Methinks that YOU have a problem with JEWS or a fixation on JEWS. Your emotions wherever they come from, are ruling you not your intellect. I agree that WE have to solve our own problems. Accept that the Israelis and Jews are allies, although this bond sometimes gets real thin. Accept the support that we get from the righteous Jews and realize that the hawks in Israel and US are not our friends. I know of some Armenians in Jerusalem who prefer to be under the hands of the Jews to being under the hands of the Palestinans. That is NOT our battle. Eventually the Jews will realize that the Turks are using them. Eventually they will remeber how they wer treated under Turkey between the two World Wars. Thousands of Jews drowned in the sea due to Turkish policy and thousands of Jews who died in Turkish forced labor camps because they could not pay their exhorbitant taxes.

[Armat]

I challenge anyone to go to a Jewish site and see how many times they have mentioned "Armenian". How about a Paletinian site?

I don’t think Armenian are fixated on the Jews as you keep repeating but rather in this specific thread as you well notice is about the Armenian genocide and the article I posted on this thread under Genocide is perfectly appropriate. When a powerful minority has enough say in matters concerning the AG then it is THEM the Jews who intervene in our “problems”

The reasons Jews don’t talk about the Armenians are obvious! but imagine if you will if Armenian state officially denied the holocaust and if Armenian Americans had enough power and influence to monopolize the public opinion constantly then I am sure you will hear Jews talk and scream about the Armenians on every opportunity.

[phantom]

There is a Jewish Holocaust monopoly of unprecendented proportions. EVERYTHING about genocide is filtered through the Jewish sieve. We have the righteous Jews who understand our story, but there are some very powerful Jews and Jewish organizations who want to maintain this monopoly at all costs. Involved with this also is the EMBARASSMENT that many of the central operators of the Armenian Genocide were hidden apostate Jews, who were Moslem only on the surface. Thus the Jewish forces in the worldwide media want to keep the Genocide in "the can." They even lobby for other interests and interest groups to deny what happened to our families. No one can imagine what they put Harvey Weinstein through for his adamance to distribute the Ararat movie. Egoyan did not produce a movie of the quality of Shindler's List or Yentyl, yet they ragged on Weinstein nevertheless, caling him a traitor.

 

We need a Theodore Roosevelt to break up this monopoly like he broke up the Capitalist monopolies of the late 19th century.

Do you have any information about the Harvey Weinstein issue? I'd like to know more about what the Jews did or said to him for making Ararat. Any newspaper articles, etc. would be helpful. Thanks.

[MJ]

I challenge anyone to go to a Jewish site and see how many times they have mentioned "Armenian". How about a Paletinian site?

I don’t think Armenian are fixated on the Jews as you keep repeating ...

Armenians are very much fixated on the Jews. That fixation has a very simple and quintessential characterization - jealousy. Everything Armenians do is to repeat or mimic the Jews. Jews have a Genocide memorial, Armenians do it too, Jews present themselves as an exclusive category of victimized people – Armenians do it too. I can continue this list on and on.

 

I can also guarantee you that if Jews had not been compensated for their Genocide; Armenians would have not pursued it either, for example.

[phantom]

Armenians are very much fixated on the Jews.  That fixation has a very simple and quintessential characterization - jealousy.  Everything Armenians do is to repeat or mimic the Jews.  Jews have a Genocide memorial, Armenians do it too, Jews present themselves as an exclusive category of victimized people – Armenians do it too. I can continue this list on and on. 

 

I can also guarantee you that if Jews had not been compensated for their Genocide; Armenians would have not pursued it either, for example.

You're right, we even went and got big noses, hairy legs, and made lots of money just to copy the Jews.

 

Obviously, I'm being sarcastic. I don't agree with you. The publication of the Jewish struggle may have caused us to undergo awaking regarding the Genocide, but I don't think we are struggling for Genocide recognition because we are jealous of anyone. I don't think Armenians are that petty, especially given the enormous cost of genocide recognition to the development of Armenia in terms of bad relations with Turkey and expenditure of funds by the diaspora.

[Armat]

I don't agree with you. The publication of the Jewish struggle may have caused us to undergo awaking regarding the Genocide, but I don't think we are struggling for Genocide recognition because we are jealous of anyone. I don't think Armenians are that petty, especially given the enormous cost of genocide recognition to the development of Armenia in terms of bad relations with Turkey and expenditure of funds by the diaspora.

Phantom

I agree with you.If some of the Jewish organizations and state of Israel did not deny the AG and hinder it's recognition efforts then we would have nothing much to discuse about the Jews.

[Takoush]

Phantom

I agree with you.If some of the Jewish organizations and state of Israel did not deny the AG and hinder it's recognition efforts then we would have nothing much to discuse about the Jews.

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DITTO.

 

 

Anahid