Censorship at it's WORST

[Sip]

This is one of the rare instances that I am trully pissed. I didn't know exactly where to put it, but I guess in this instance, this section is somewhat appropriate ... in any case, I had to get it ouf of my system so sorry! I was just watching "A Few Good Men", my MOST FAVORITE movie EVER on TNT (a US cable channel) ... and they have as usual, butchered one of the BEST dialogs ever in a movie (in my opinion), to make it more "appropriate".

 

In one of Col. Jessup's lines he says:

 

"I want you to stand there in your faggoty white uniform, and with your Harvard mouth extend me some f-ing courtesy."

 

They replaced the word "faggoty" with "girly"

 

I mean COME ON! First of all, why screw around with such a GREAT movie? If not the best movie of all time? Second of all, why is putting down "girls" better than "homosexuals"? Isn't both of those just as bad?

 

These TV censors in the US make me SICK. They try to do something right, but it comes out completely wrong. I hope they get out of this censorship phase soon. Either show it correctly, as it was originally intended to be, or don't show it at all.

 

This is one of those things that disturbs me a lot when I see it, but I usually don't care about it because they change "ass" to "butt" or "bull shit" to "baloney" or the f-word to "freak". It usually is just a simple meaningless "word substitution" (most of the time, when the bad words don't really have any bearing on the content I don't care at all).

 

[ November 16, 2002, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Sip ]

[Guest Fadi]

Sip is human, Sip is human, Sip is human... For the first time in the history of hyeforum we have a recorded event of him being pissed of something. I'll drink for that. :-)

[nairi]

I thought German dubbing was bad until I saw Scent of a Woman on Russian TV.

[Boghos]

The censorship you are refering to is just but a very small expression of political correctness in America.

 

The land of individual freedom, where KKK can march on the streets and you can have an American Nazi Party, the right to bear guns, etc is also one of the most conservative societies in the world.

 

Tocqueville´s Democracy in America should be mandatory reading, especially for those that have some sociological interest in the foundations of American society.

 

Junior will only make it worse.

[Sip]

... you better find another excuse to drink since if this is the only "reason", you won't be drinking much

 

But whatever you do, don't screw around with "A Few Good Men" because that will make me

 

Boghos, I fully agree, except for the mandatory "reading" part

[MJ]

TNT is a basic channel, and each household is equipped with it. It would be nice to be able to sit with your family and watch a movie with your children without an embarrassment.

 

For those with taste got more spicy language, there are the HBOs, CineMax, etc.

[Guest Fadi]

quote:

---

... you better find another excuse to drink since if this is the only "reason", you won't be drinking much

---

I don't drink :-)

[nairi]

A few good men? Pulp Fiction? Or Cinderella?

 

The way it works in Holland: adult movies are shown at night (after 9pm), children movies in the morning/afternoon. No one seems to have a problem with it here, and no censorship is needed.

[Sip]

I couldn't agree more. However, in this case, I don't think a "girly white uniform" is any less embarassing than a "fagotty white uniform" ... if not, it's probably even MORE embarassing since they are using "girly" as an insult (where fagotty is already an insult).

 

I hope people don't want to teach their daughters that there is anything wrong with being "girly", cause that certainly what TNT seems to want to imply and it's what ticks me off. In essense, the problem here is that they are affraid of the very vocal homosexual community as opposed to the much larger, yet somehow less vocal female community.

[Sip]

Oh and "A Few Good Men" is not my most favorite movie just because of it's punchlines and fantastic dialogs (not to mention the superb acting talent) ... no, I was much more touched by the message it's trying to send.

 

Who was really the bad guy in that movie? There is no clear cut answer since EVERYONE made the correct decision, yet somehow everyone lost (except the lawyers )

 

That's how you teach your childeren about life! Well, at least that's how I would if I ever had any childeren.

 

[ November 18, 2002, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Sip ]

[nairi]

I do.

[Boghos]

Dear Sip,

 

What is a "childeren" ? some kind of Tavrizian dialect ?

[MJ]

I am not claiming that one edition (referenced by you above) is better than the other. I am defending some reasonable censorship.

[Sip]

Gotcha and I agree. Nothing worse than sitting around the TV with your grandparents (in my case) and then all of a sudden clothes start flying all over the place on TV and the camera starts panning up and down some bed covers that seem to be moving with the occasional hint of some strange body parts protruding from below ... my grandpa seems to get a kick out of it though ... but my grandma makes all sorts of faces at him with the rolling eyes in disgust.

 

Boghos: Geez! I make like 2 or 3 spelling errors per day and I'm a Tavriztsi now? I sometimes wish there were only 2 letters in the alphabet ... ANY alphabet ... that would drastically reduce the chances of making a mistake

[Boghos]

I hope there is nothing wrong in being a Tavriztsi...You know there is a funny thing that I have seen happening quite a few times here: my grandma and people of her generation do not speak Portuguese with perfection, but they have some kind of Portuguese dialect that they speak among themselves and another one that they use when speaking with other Brazilians. Each has a different set of mistakes.

 

On spelling: well you know even America born and raised monolingual people commit so many attrocious mistakes...you probably are in the 99 percentile...

 

[ November 18, 2002, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Boghos ]

[nairi]

This is what I love about Dutch TV: they warn you beforehand. Besides my grandmother is usually in bed by 9pm... Plus, the "worst" kinds of movies/docs/shows etc. are not shown before 11pm, and x-rated stuff only after 1am. In short, nothing to worry about, and NO censorship needed!

[Boghos]

[nairi]

1:45am. Bedtime! Bari gisher.

[Harut]

just about the time for the good movies to start.

[MosJan]

By-SeaphajanIk - "If not the best movie of all time"

 

The best movie of all times 01 99 - BA

[THOTH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sip:

...I was much more touched by the message it's trying to send.

 

Who was really the bad guy in that movie? There is no clear cut answer since EVERYONE made the correct decision, yet somehow everyone lost (except the .

---

If you think this then I think you miss the main point of the movie. The actions of jessup, Kendrick & those who murdered Santiago ( who had a medial conditon etc) - were wrong (very wrong) - pure & simple...etc

 

And/but I do agree - great movie.

 

I absolutly don't like the idea of doctoring any movie for any reason unless the director and such are parto fit...even then. If the movie is considerd "inapropriate" then its up to the parents to decise not to watch or tro cut away etc as needed. I am a parent - I undrstand these concerns - but....other issues as well.

 

One issue is this idea that grandparents & even in some case children) cannot be exposed to certain language or certain sexual activities. Sex is a good thing - am i wrong here? Sure kids may not understand or such - and you curt away etc. But grandparents?

 

The language issue. I very rarely use such language myself (unless I hammer my thumb or such) - and I personaaly don't like it. But this is the real world people (or at least the hollywood version). Anyway - I object to censorship if it means altering the artistic product. Watch somethinfg else or be the censor yourself for you children (or yourself)...

 

Otherwise the time method with naughtier stuff 7 what not on later makes sense to me...and they do this somewhat in the US.

 

But the puratinsim in many peoples attitudes i actually find more disturbing then the language or sex & such (I like the sex part [for] myself...LOL)....

[THOTH]

A few Good Men is a Rob Reiner film - so it should be clear where his biases are concerning (who is) good and bad. It was meant to illustrate the coruption of the Preatorian Guard type of attitude and that we must act to protect (and at least recognize) those who are less able (medically or whatever) etc like Santiago. This, I think is the underlying message - and one that many military folks had a lot of heartache over. Sure - Jessup & Kendrick were caricatures (but very well done ones!) - and they were certainly bad guys - even if they (and you) didn't think of them(selves) as such...and perhaps most of the time they were good guys doing their duty - but obviously it shows the perils of being too lock step in your beliefs/actions (and thinking that you are above the law)...again - great movie! And did Jessup's actions save lives - in this case - I don't thik so - in any event there are certainly better (& more honest) ways to handle these things...why didn't they just transfer Santiago? NO - they wanted to humiliate him and hurt him - whip him into shape - etc....twisted, thats all...And attitudes like Jessup's lead to all sorts of (more serious) abuses - consider Iran Contra (Ollie North) and various CIA episodes of the 60s & 70s etc...

 

As for th sex thing...well my kids self censor - which is funny to watch - they duck under the covers/turn away when so much as a kiss is onscreen and ask when its over. But yes, in case you were wondering, no - we don't let them watch sex scenes in movies and we try to minimize exposure to "bad" language (and when sometimes we fail we admonish those on screen, and the kids often join in - LOL). But as far as the language thing - I think the kids are more influenced by what we (the parents) say and how we express ourselves then the TV - and we don't use such words. Though at a certain point the language that their peers use will also have great influence...and what can be done there?

 

And as far as Grandparents go - well my father's (non-Armenin) mother - a real country gal - could and did often talk as spicy as anyone I ever met! And my mother's mother - normally very well spoken (no bad words ever)...well once when I was a child (maybe 10 years old?) we were at a large Armenian gathering of some sort (don't remember what it was about) and my Grandmother and a bunch of other old Armenian ladys were gathered around to themselves and talking exitedly and luaghing away. I later asked my Grandmother what it was all about and she told me that they ahd been telling bawdy jokes! So don't assume your Grandparents are chaste & such - just because they are old (just the opposite most likely! - actually almost by definition)...sure there are generational differences in terms of acceptability of language and nudity or whatever...though not all fall into this convention. Don't forget - they are adults too! (and can decide for themselves)

[Sip]

Jessep: You ever served in an infantry unit son?

Kaffee: No Sir.

Jessep: You ever served in a forward area unit?

Kaffee: No Sir.

Jessep: You ever put your life in another man's hands, and in return, asked him to put his life in yours?

Kaffee: No Sir.

Jessep: We follow orders, we follow orders or people die, it's that simple. Are we clear?

Kaffee: Yes, Sir.

Jessep: Are we clear?!

Kaffee: Crystal.

 

I'm not so sure Thoth. I actually think Jessup's actions may have saved lives (to borrow his own words) ... our laws and common sense don't just directly apply to their situtation. They have to "follow orders or people die".

 

Of course no one intended to kill Santiago, just to teach him a lesson (Code Red). Anyway, I see what you are saying but I don't think I agree. I don't think the good and bad guys are that well defined in that story. In any case, I'm sure you'd agree that there are instances in real life where each individual in a group can make the seemingly correct decision at the time, while the outcome is just horribly wrong.

 

It's not that grandparents cannot or should not be exposed to sex or foul language ... it's just that I get this chill down to the bone every time it does happen! I really can't explain it ... it just seems so wrong. Yah, it must be the "pure Armenian" genes talking here. Who knew ... seems like I do have them.

 

As far as children, I wouldn't really know since I don't have any. Since I won't have children any time soon, fortunately I don't have to worry about that one! But again, somewhere from deep down inside something is telling me "sex is bad" when children are around.

 

[ November 27, 2002, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: Sip ]

[Azat]

Sip, you would like this. This is a crank phone call by a guy who records lines from movies and pretends to be someone else by playing these lines from his PC.

 

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/jacknich.mp3

 

You can also find other calls here http://www.ebaumsworld.com/morepranks.shtml

[Dan]

butchered one of the BEST dialogs ever in a movie (in my opinion), to make it more "appropriate".

I don't think it was to make it more "appropriate" per se. And I don't think it was to avoid making a "homophobic" remark - I actually think changing "faggoty" to "girly" is more of an insult to gays than it is to just leave it at that. I would understand if someone called me a fag, but I would really be if someone called me a sissy.

 

I mean COME ON! First of all, why screw around with such a GREAT movie?

Cos they need to re-assure themselves from time to time that they've "got the power"? Maybe? At any rate, censorship of any kind makes me sick.

 

Second of all, why is putting down "girls" better than "homosexuals"? Isn't both of those just as bad?

Yes, they're both just as bad. Now the question remains, if the scene was indeed inappropriate and they so wanted to remove the inappropriateness, why didn't they just chop off the whole scene - or change a setence or two?

 

These TV censors in the US make me SICK. They try to do something right, but it comes out completely wrong.

Yep. Very true.

 

Dan

Edited April 25, 2003 by Dan