What do you think about reading BOOKS?

[Sip]

I know. Books are good. All smart people read books. You read books you learn a lot ... but do you?

 

I have never liked books. I think they are outdated as a form of conveying information and that they are not too effective. They have been the only source we have had since the beginnings but I want to see what you think about this. But let me first be clear!

 

I think books are great for "fiction", "novels", and that type of stuff which exercise human imagination, feelings, etc. I see great value in letting the mind sometimes form the picture of what is happening as opposed to just showing it. But I also don't think that one necessarily "learns" by reading too many of those types of books.

 

I am talking more about human learning. I don't know how many times I heard teachers and adults say don't watch too much TV. Read a book instead. But I really don't see their point. I can learn SOOOO much from television and computer (audio-visual sources). We have these stations in the US called Discovery channel, Learning channel, History channel, etc that are simply amazing in their content! I have seen and learned things from there that would have been almost impossible for me to learn from books. And most important of all, they are VERY efficient and don't bore me.

 

I know that the right side of my brain has porbably been on vacation since the early 80s. But ... what do you think? Don't you think that books are fairly inefficient and archaic means of communicating knowledge? Every book that I have ever read has bored the heck out of me. So boring ... word after word after word ... Ever heard the phrase "a picture is worth a thousand words"??? (amazing that only childeren's books have lots of pictures ...)

 

So what do you think? Are you one of those people that claims to have a "great time" reading books? Do you read books for entertainment?

[sdcheung]

yeah I like reading Books.

I also go for the Audio Books.

 

some books just consume you and you can't put it down until the last page.

[alpha]

Sip, allow me to disagree with you about your assessment of books. They are not only means of transforming information, but also they help shape people’s analytical skills about various topics. Books enrich your vocabulary and improve ones communication skills. The only way I preserve my knowledge of Russian is reading Russian literature, so in a way I can attest from my own example that books help in shaping ones communication skills. Plus reading is not only confined to books. I am a big news junkie and consumer of magazines. You can learn a lot by reading reputable and interesting magazines. I am sure you have flipped through National Geographic. Don’t you think it gives a lot more than watching Discovery Channel or History Channel?

[MosJan]

Alpha ? es vor qamin ??

 

Barov yekar

[Azat]

I use to love to read books, and I have a large library at home(probably over 5000 books), however I have not had a chance to read a book in the last 3-4 years. That is outside of picking up a book to look up as a reference for something for some programming solution.

 

There is just not enough time between personal life, work, sleep, HyeForum, LA Times website, BBC website and all the industry rags that I get. I am not saying that I do not read, because on a daily basis I probably read more than I did while I was at school, but I read mostly from the above list and not books.

 

With that said, I do plan to start reading books again as my "dot com" career comes to an end and I go back to a large corporate environment.

 

Hey Alpha - have you been watching the PBS special for the past two Wednesday nights called Commanding Heights? It is a wonderful show based on the book by Daniel Yergin and Joseph Sanislaw. BTW, If anyone is interested you can view the entire show online.

[Harut]

This is for you Sip.

------

 

Karda, ay im manuk,

Karda gri, tarin bolor:

Kardatsoghi xelqn e ktrum,

mitq@` paytsar u lusavor:

 

Girq kardalov, du griqerum

Shat noranor ban kimanas:

Shat-shaterits, shat banerum

mtqov heru kslanas:

 

Du kimanas inchu mardik

Petqe apren irar hamar,

Inch e mardkants tsavn u kariq,

Inch e luys@, inch e xavar:

 

Karda, ay im manuk,

Karda gri, tarin bolor:

Kardatsoghi xelqn e ktrum,

mitq@` paytsar u lusavor:

[MosJan]

mi shabat arach yerevanist 200 ngrger statsa, hoyakap gortser kan mej@.

 

der sranq petqe spasen, hima u hima Soromon Tehleryani Gorqn em artat@pum, sa verchanam, mi nor ban k@gtnem.

 

bayts te grqits el lav ban menak conyakn, yerkusn el tanum en, isk conyak@ aveli heruu en el sev u muth jampeqov.

volor molor janaparhner janaparhner, ur en tanum ur en tanum ~~~~~~~~~

 

te esi vor terits hishetsy, chem el hishum.

[Hyeflyer]

The TV and radio are entertaining and can be a good sorce of partial information on their subject matter,but a book cant be beat.Find a TV show about plant or animal genetics that is subject specific.You wont as they only give a broad view to the subject.I might be the odd ball as fiction bores the hell out of me.Give me a science or history book anyday.I often tell my better half Steven King would be a pscyo killer if he didnt act out his bizare thoughts on paper.So books do have a value still evan though there is the electronic media.

[Twilight Bark]

Dear Sip,

 

Can you read your monitor in the bathroom? Can you carry your monitor around? Can you scribble on your TV? Can you spill coffee on your laptop or drop it into the water and say "Oh well, I'll just get another copy?" Does the word "ergonomics" ring the bell?

 

If and when the digital media become as friendly as an old-fashioned book, there will be no reason to stick with paper. Until then ...

 

As for TV as substitue for books, that's laughable. As highflier said, it may be good in sparking curiosity about a subject, but if you want to really learn about it you need to read a book (or its digital equivalent when it becomes convenient enough to throw around). Sip, you have allowed to be babysat by the mainstream culture too much and for too long. Wake up and start reading books that interest you, not those that "respectable" people say should interest you. Then see where it takes you. If you still cannot gather enough patience to read through a book on a subject that otherwise interests you, perhaps the problem lies elsewhere.

Good luck on your adventures.

 

Twilight Bark

[Azat]

Dear Twilight Bark,

 

>>Can you read your monitor in the bathroom?

Yes.

 

>>Can you carry your monitor around?

Yes, I do it all the time.

 

>>Can you scribble on your TV?

Yes, I can and do all the time.

 

>>Can you spill coffee on your laptop or drop it into the water and say "Oh well, I'll just get another copy?"

I can, But I do not want to because it costs alot.

 

>>Does the word "ergonomics" ring the bell?

Yes it does. In fact my monitor is much more ergonomic than any book you can show me.

 

Allow me to ask you few questions.

Can you read your book in pitch dark? Can you increase the font size, or change the font on the books you are reading just in case the font is not compatible with you? ("ergonomics" remember?) Can you get additional information on the Author or anything in the book within that book? Can your book remind you that you have meetings, or allow you to listen to music, or lookup a phone number, or lookup a phone number and act as your navigation device, or even allow you to play challenging games with it?

 

Do you want me to list more things that you dream of doing that you can't with your book?

 

Oh just in case you want to come out of the 1980s, my "monitor" is a Sony Clie 760C with a 56K wireless modem, 64K color screen and 142 Megs of RAM.

 

BTW - If you need to research something, do you fall in the trap of these so called "mainstream culture" and use modern tools or do you just use the library with the old fashion card catalog system to find your books.

[Azat]

Dear TB,

 

I am glad that you are impressed by my "whiz-bang gadgets" as you called it. I wrote it specifically to impress you.

 

I should ask you to reread my answer because I never said that I take my "whiz-bang gadget" with me to the bathroom with me. Nor do I ever take a book, or a magazine or the morning paper. When I am in the bathroom, it is for other reasons.

 

The thing that I do not understand is why you feel that my ""whiz-bang gadget" is not as simple as your book when it comes to performing that function. And I would say that the future is not here yet because people like you do not want to convert over to the digital format this making it much more expansive to create e-books thus not enough e-books out there for people who have converted over. You get the picture. It is a bad cycle.

 

I think knowing the color of the authors socks and underwear may enhance the points that you are trying to comprehend in the book. Try it, promises you wont be disappointed.

 

Azat

[Azat]

Dear TB, my point, which I am sure you understood very well, or else you would have not commented, was that you are no better than any one in the mainstream culture. You are one of the many who make the so called "mainstream culture". No better, no worse.

 

>>Disappointed

Sorry if I disappoint you.

Azat

[Twilight Bark]

Why would I want to do that? Unless I am 10 years old and enjoy reading my books under my blankie, or a soldier trying to read a darn manual to operate that darn gadget that somebody named Azat invented.

Yes, it's called a magnifying glass, and has been around for centuries

Ditto for a pair of glasses. Or contacts, which have been around only for decades.

 

If the publisher was silly enough to publish the book with ancient gothic fonts, I am smart enough to deduce that the contents are probably not worth reading.

 

Refer to my previous comment about attention spans. We don't constantly interrupt people during conversations whenever something pops into our minds, not only because it is rude (which is irrelevant in this context) but also because we want to get the whole picture of what he/she is saying, want to digest the ideas, and see if the whole packege put together makes sense. A book is much denser with (hopefully) well thought-out arguments, and we do well to focus on what's written and give it a chance rather than hyperactively jump from place to place in a futile attempt at cross-referencing everything. The frantic "discussions" on some TV "news" shows how superficial and dangerously misleading their "conclusions" can be.

When the digital gadgets become a lot more like ordinary paper books in the way they "interact" with people, I will be the first in line to buy them, and my book (I will be able to call it that) will be able to do that and much more hopefully.

[Twilight Bark]

Really? You mean you really believe in your straw-man argument? To the contrary, if I understood what you meant I would feel no need to address it. All I could deduce is that it was a rethorical device called "straw-man argument".

 

I don't remember saying or thinking I was "better" than anybody. I do, however, think that we sould all make an effort to step back and be skeptical about where the "mainstream" is taking us, and evaluate it for ourselves analytically. When I say "mainstream", I am basically referring to "peer-pressure". Thus the "mainstream" in the editorial room of an "out of mainstream" publication is entirely different from the "mainstream" in a big-circulation daily. My basic point is to avoid the herd mentality, that is all. I hope I am clarifying my terminology, which is often not all that clear at the outset.

 

I can only take that as a compliment, as I often feel more inadequate than superior. In any case, I probably don't deserve the compliment, as I am not really in a position to contribute to the "mainstream culture" appreciably. If I could, I would. And I would still hope that the consumers of my contribution take it with the appropriate reflection and tought.

[Twilight Bark]

It is not as simple because it still feels wooden compared with leafing through a book. It takes longer to do many of the things you take for granted in a book, and that is a non-starter regardless of other nifty features.

 

People adopt something when they see the value. The reason electronic books have been slow to take off is not because people are dumb. It is because they know value when they see it, and it's not there yet in current technology. I have no doubt that the technology will advance to the point where paper books will become marginalized. At that point, our discussion will be completely meaningless, because we will have a new object that will be able to function as a paper book, and be able to do much more if and when we want it to.

[Hyeflyer]

AzzatThe bathroom is the most relaxing and quite room in the house and it would be the last place I would bring a electronic devise because of the water eletric factor.Have you ever heard of candles.It is quite relaxing light to read by if the power goes out and you can't recharge your laptop.A book doesn't need batterys or recharging.Hell its very relaxing to go to the collage library and spend the day doing research.:)Its not out dated yet,till then.

[Guest Fadi]

I adore books... and keep them even if I don't read many of them anymore... its like a collection... yep I don't have as much as Azat, but I know I have many of them... the majority are of course French one, from Voltaire, Victor Hugo, Zola etc...

[Azat]

TB, I must first apologies about the mainstream comment as I did misunderstand your definition of mainstream.

 

Dear highflyer and TB, I think that you need to add more fiber to your diet as it seems you have too much time in the bathroom.

 

>>It is quite relaxing light to read by if the power goes out and you can't recharge your laptop.

This happens alot in CA. I always wonder what I am going to do as I run out of juice in my battery.

 

As to reading in dark. I am sure you knew what I meant on that as well, but if you did not let me clarify it a little as say inadequate light. Happens all the time. Do you travel alot? If you do, then do you feel that the light in the plane is adequate?

 

Just as I do not discuss what I do in eh bathroom, I also do not discuss what I do under my blankie, but if you are that interested, I can give you details. I am sure you can do without it.

 

Believe me I know how things get accepted and why. We are at an early stages of e-books, but it is much further along than you think(I may be wrong)

 

I also need to mention to you that I love books and I am not against them in any way. I just feel that the time has come for people to take their "monitors" to the john if they spend too much there.

 

>>Yes, it's called a magnifying glass, and has been around for centuries

The minute I asked my question, I knew you were going to say the above. But once again, I was talking about convenience and ergonomics and how "whizbangboom" gadgets do provide you that.

[Sip]

http://zr2.cs.ucla.edu/Sip/zr2/bathroom.jpg

 

You guys have all made very interesting points. I will reply to them shortly (I am crazy busy at the time ...) I just couldn't wait to post a picture of my bathroom to clear up any confusions you may have.

 

PS: It's not my real bathroom but I do have wireless internet at home and at UCLA (as well as several laptops and PDAs) so sometimes you DON'T want to know where I am posting from

[Twilight Bark]

Dear Azat,

I am so impressed by your technological prowess. I am also so glad that you take your gadgets to the bathroom with you. However, one still cannot escape the simple observation that the electronic books have some way to go to match the user-friendliness of a simple book. If you care to read a bit more attentively, I am anticipating the replacement of paper books by digital gadgets in the future. All I am saying is that the future is not here yet, except for those enthusiasts who are willing to ignore the limitations of a clumsy gadget with whiz-bang features but lacking some of the basics. And I am not dreading that future either; I am looking forward to it. As for the rest of your comments answering points that I never made, allow me to agree with you that search capabilities offered by digital media are certainly very valuable in the "search" mode of reading. I for one, find what internet allows me to do perfectly compatible with my way of doing things. However, having an attention span longer than the clock cycle of a processor, I can enjoy reading my book and digest the points made in it before dashing off to check the life story of the author, or what color socks he prefers wearing, or for that matter, what Azat thinks about it.

Regards,

TB

[Twilight Bark]

You assume too much. And if you think creating a straw-man argument by pretending that I am equating the rational use of useful new technologies as mindless surrender to the mainstream culture is a legitimate tool in debating a subject, I must say we are off to an unpromising start.

Disappointed,

TB

[Sip]

Ok here I am again ... I really need some sleep but I find this topic very interesting ... just forgive me if I seem to be blabbering at times ...

 

First about the "mainstream" thing: I am under the impression that the "mainstream" advocates the reading of books as the thing to do! Actually, here I am going against the mainstream ... if you don't believe me, just read all the replies and you'll see I am alone in my thinking about books

 

Now about "reading": I am not disputing the value of reading. I think reading is a basic means of communication which will not go away so easily. Whether digital or not, interactive or not, reading will be around for a LONG time I think.

 

About books: I am talking about the 1-dimensionality of it. You start on page 1, you work your way to page n, moving your eyes over word k-1 before going to work k. Word after word, page after page, until you're done. I just get extremely bored with that. My mind typically wonders around and I can't focus since the process is sooooo sloooooooow (maybe I need speed-reading practice?)

 

On a computer however, I can do 5 things at the same time, switch back and forth, jump forwards and backwards, search (yes, it is VERY important to me and I do it all the time while reading), lookup words/concepts I don't know, and even get side-tracked and follow a different tangent than where the flow of the text is trying to taking me.

 

About TV: I think it is a fantastic medium. Unfortunately, it is not being used the way it should. Most "mainstream" programs SUCK. BUT, a huge book can be efficiently condensed into a short 1 or 2 hour program since instead of spending 30 pages describing the scence, they just show it to you in 1 frame!!!! The 3 paragraphs used to describe a sound ... you just hear it! Example: How long does it take to describe an elephant, how it moves, how it behaves, how it eats ... in a book? How long does it take to do the same on TV? Which one is really better? I think the difference is obvious.

 

Another example: I always hated "History" in school. It was torture for me to read about history. But I actually love the History channel we have here. I have learned A TON of stuff about ancient egypt, Word War II, US History, European History, etc etc just by watching that channel. I would have to spend hours and hours reading books to get the same info. Here, I just have the TV on while I am working on my PC. I pick up an amazing amount of info that way. The beauty of it is that I don't even really have to pay attention (as opposed to a book where you have to read each paragraph carefully). I just glance over every few seconds and I can immediately reconstruct what happened in between because things are so visual and auditory (as opposed to plain text).

 

About communication: I have read very few books. Most of them were required in school. Yet, I am often told that I have good communication skills both in terms of speaking and writing ... hmmm or should I say "well communication skills" ... I have never really had formal training in any language except maybe one college class in English (required). I obviously can't attriubte it to reading books. All I can conclude right now is that clear and organized thinking leads to clear and organized communication abilities. Do reading books help? Maybe ... are they necessary? I'd say no.

[Sip]

By the way, Harut jan, shat shnorhakal em ... che gidem kani dari er vor yes ayd votanavore chei lsel!!!! (yerevi mi 20 dari ke lini) Ah .... good memories ...

[Hyeflyer]

I still am glad to get a book as a presant.This morning my better half gave me a copy of(The William Saroyan Reader.If it had been burned to disc it would have ment nothing to me.It was the fact it is a REAL BOOK that is important.It is also the fact she is proud of my being Armenian and knowing a book by Saroyan would be important to me.The story I am reading from it now is (The Armenian Writers).I have read many of the contents allready but to be able to review them again at my lesiur is most relaxing.

[Twilight Bark]

Dear Sip,

That picture is hilarious. I laughed out loud at the sight (which I rarely do in front of my computer). As you tickle us with "baits" to promote interesting discussions, I tickle you by accusing you of bowing to the "mainstream". Thanks for taking it in good humor, as it was intended.

Twilight Bark