What do you think about reading BOOKS?

[Twilight Bark]

Your "mainstream" is the geekdom in which you spend your "professional" part of your life Your "mainstream" and, say, highflier's "mainstream", although intersecting, are significantly different in many areas.

 

Books are anyting but 1-dimensional. You can very quickly jump to any page or paragraph. A good table of contents and a good index makes it even easier. Nothing prevents you from reading the concluding chapter first, to see what the whole thing is about (something I often do ).

 

But one can do the same while holding a book in one's hands. There are no proximity alarms going off when a book approaches a digital device

 

As I agreed earlier, TV and radio have their place. I enjoy learning a lot from both of these sources. However, there is a level of depth and proficiency that is simply impractical to achieve regardless of how excellent the program is.

 

"Hatred" of history is of course very common because it is taught extremely poorly all around the planet. Only very few people survive the active dicouragement they receive in their formative years. There is another component in your case though . Yes, that "mainstream" thing again. "History is bunk" summarizes the North American attitude. The mainstream culture in the US implicitly carries the message that we should forget the past and look to the future. It is of course self-serving for two reasons. Having a very short history, Americans feel left out when discussing anything that goes further back than the period in which their country ascended to be a world-power (and eventually the only superpower). It is therefore convenient to brush aside much of history as "irrelevant". A related but distinct second reason is the still prevalent "manifest destiny" attitude. That is, America has a God-given right and duty to lead the world into the future, and that such leadership is the most important aspect of current human existence. Some even go so far as sincerely (but not necessarily consciously) believing that what is good for America is by definition good for the whole humanity. As a silly example avoiding history, observe that the American mainstream culture encourages children to be fascinated by dinosaurs and other prehistoric curiosities, as a substitute for real history. Medieval history would be a distant second as far as "past stuff" goes, and forget about anything older. As the American culture spills over to other parts of the planet, its idiosyncratic features also get adopted. It is amusing to watch.

 

A more crucial point to consider is what one has to communicate. I'd rather listen to a stuttering man that sprinkles his torturous and tortuous speech with lots of "ums" and "aaa"s but has deep insight, than a smooth talking "communicator" whose discourse has perfect "left-brain" logical connections and perfect internal consistency but is based on a completely false or fatally superficial view of reality.

[Sip]

Ouch! All I got to say is touche'

 

I am starting to realize that your statement is very true. Most of the kind of knowledge I seek is not in the from of a book yet. I was actually thinking about this quite a bit today ... it is not uncommon to refer to a computer related book from the early 90s as "that classic piece of work by so and so" Actually, I was recently contacted to write an article to be included in a new encyclopedia ... it took a few months and the book is about to be published ... but as I realized that several things in that article are already out dated!!!

 

I wonder why that is. It is clear to me that books do not have any advantage over the type of medium that TV provides. Yet TV is mainly being used as purely an entertainment tool I am thinking that maybe the costs of achieving that "depth" and "proficiency" in a program do not justify the effort. Maybe it's that they will not have a large enough audience to even recover their initial costs of "publishing" ... never the less, it is very puzzling to me. I find that people in general are very slow to accept change ... and usually only when there is significant gains to be made to they actually do a "switch" ... for examle, it is obvious that the land-line telephone is by far an outdated means of communication. Yet people still insist on having one at their house !!! They often get shocked when I tell them that I don't have a phone number where I can be reached ... they think I am trying to brush them off or show-off my "geeky-ness" whatever that is ... but I don't think that's true.

 

If I were to approach a random person on the street about 10 years ago and tell him that 10 years from that date he would most likely be sitting in front of a computer, browsing, chatting, emailing, playing games, he would have looked at me and called me a geek and a feak of nature! The geeks were the ones messing around on usenet groups and the BBS'es. But now, it's like you can't be cool unless you have an email account or instant messaging!

 

About History: FYI, I have only been in the US for the past 11 years. Most of my pre-highschool and elementary education I got in Iran ... a couple of years in Germany. My hatred of history (it's not really a hatered of the subject ... just hatred of the massive amounts of readings it requires) manifested itself long before I ended up on the North American continent.

[nairi]

You do have a point here. People have different ways of learning. A friend of mine learns everything by ear. She goes to lectures, reads her notes, hardly scans over her books and passes all her exams with the best grades.

 

Then there are students who learn visually. They can't understand spoken or written words; they have to see it in an image.

 

And then there are people who are only capable of understanding something when reading it.

 

Sip jan, you do not need to understand or analyze every single word in a book. A good student learns the main essence of a book and skips details that he or she does not yet have the knowledge to understand. A fanatic student who is afraid to move on unless he understands every single word, footnote and detail will become stressed, run out of time and end up understanding and remembering less than a student who concentrated on the essence rather than the details. If you start reading like this, you'll get through a book faster than you think. Meanwhile you'll learn stuff you'll never be able to find anywhere else (for the time being anyway).

 

Also keep in mind to take breaks, eat and drink every now and again. Hardly anyone is capable of concentrating on one thing for long periods of time without taking a break. There is a reason why lectures don't last more than 45 minutes at a time and students are told to eat and drink properly before attending seminars.

 

Btw, Parska-Hai es? Welcome to the club!

 

Nairi

[nairi]

Come to think of it, here's a passage from a book you might like:

 

[nairi]

...first published in 1946.

 

Nairi

[Sip]

Thanks for all the hints. I really got pumped up to pick up a book and try again. I will try to keep the suggestions in mind although they are easier said than done. I guess with anything one needs practice ...

 

Oh don't worry about this. I got this part mastered perfectly.

 

Ba inch!

[nairi]

What?

[Rubo]

Hi guys I am back and took all my teeth out

 

So what do you think? Are you one of those people that claim to have a "great time" reading books? Do you read books for entertainment?

 

Yes I do enjoy reading books. Some perspectives.

1. How did you (plural) learned to read in the first place? -Books

2. If programming is your chosen profession, didn’t you learn the codes from a book?

3. When you bought your first PC, electronic gadgets, didn’t you read the manual the little booklet?

4. Watching TV is generally considered a main stream past time and book readers generally are the minority hence not the main streamers.

5. Personally looking back at my life everything that greatly impressed me were the results of reading a great book. This process is still going on. I am reading at the present “the seven habits of highly effective people” by Stephen R.Covey and highly recommend it.

 

Regards

[Rubo]

Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis

 

Great book, I read this three times at different periods in my life and still didn't bore me. I specially like the passages when Zorba talks about his contempt for nationalism. Thanks Nairi for mentioning.

 

Sip

I promise this book "Tropic of Cancer" by Henry Miller Is hilarious (I know you like to laugh) and thought provoking and is loaded with sex. What can be more entertaining?

[nairi]

Here's one of my favorite passages, Chapter XII:

 

(A letter from Karayannis writing from Africa, near Tanganyika)

 

"When are you going to make up your mind to come here to me, you damned limpet clamped to the rocks of Greece? You, too, have turned into a typical lousy Greek, a tavern-loafer, a wallower in café-life. Because you need not think only cafés are cafés; books are, too, and habits, and your precious ideologies. They are all cafés. It is Sunday today and I have nothing to do: I am on my estate and I'm thinking of you. The sun is like a furnace, and there has not been a drop of rain. Here, when the rain does fall, in April, May and June, it's an absolute deluge.

"I'm all alone, and I like that. There are quite a lot of lousy Greeks here (Is there anywhere this vermin doesn't get to?) but I don't want to mix with them. They disgust me. Even here, you damned tavern-loafers - may the Devil take you - you've sent us your leprosy, your miserable back-biting. That's what is ruining Greece - politics! There's card-playing, too, of course, and ignorance, and the sins of the flesh.

"I detest Europeans; that's why I am wandering about here in the mountains of Usumbara. I hate Europeans, but most of all I hate the lousy Greeks and everything Greek. I'll never set foot in Greece again. This is where I'll finish up. I've had my tomb made already, in front of my hut, here on the wild mountainside. I've put up the stone and myself carved these words in large capitals:

 

HERE LIES A GREEK WHO HATES THE GREEKS.

 

"I burst out laughing, spit, swear and weep whenever I think of Greece. So as to see no Greeks and nothing Greek, I left the country for ever. I came here, brought my destiny with me - it was not my destiny which brought me: man does what he chooses! - I brought my destiny here and I've worked and still am working like a slave. I've been sweating and will continue to sweat by the bucketful. I am fighting with the earth, the wind, the rain, and with the workmen, my red and black slaves.

"I have no pleasures. Yes, one: work. Physical and mental, but preferably physical. I like to exhaust myself, sweat, hear my bones crack. Half my money I throw away, waste it however and wherever I feel inclined. I'm not a slave to money: money is my slave. I am a slave to work, and I'm proud of it. I fell trees; I have a contract with the British. I make rope; now I've started planting cotton too. Last night, among my negroes, two tribes - the Wa'yao and the Wa'ngoni - began fighting over a woman - over a whore. Just hurt pride, you know. Just the same as in Greece. Insults, brawls, and then come out the clubs. They broke one another's heads over her. The women ran to fetch me in the middle of the night, and woke me with their yapping, to go and arbitrate. I was angry, told them all to go to the devil, then to the British police. But they stayed there howling in front of my door the whole night. At dawn I went out and arbitrated.

"Tomorrow, early, I am going to scale the Usumbara mountains, with their dense forest, fresh waters and everlasting greenness. Well, you lousy Babylonian Greek, when will you cut adrift from Europe?... 'that great whore that sitteth upon many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication...!' When will you come, so that we can climb these pure and wild mountains together?

"I have a child by a black woman: a girl. I've sent her mother away: she cuckolded me in public in the full glare of the midday sun, under every green tree in the neighbourhood. I had enough of her, and threw her out. But I kept the girl; she's two. She can walk and she's beginning to talk. I'm teaching her Greek; the first sentence I taught her was: 'I spit on you, you lousy Greeks, I spit on you, you lousy Greeks!'

"She looks like me, the little scamp; she's only got her mother's broad flat nose. I love her, but just as you love a dog or a cat. Come out here and get a boy by a Usumbara woman. We'll marry the two of them one day, just to amuse ourselves, and to amuse them, too!

"Goodbye! May the devil go with you, and with me, dear friend!

"Karayannis, Servus diabolicus Dei."

[Rubo]

Nice passage Nairi

 

Fiction and its revelance in life

 

One can say that everything we hear, smell, feel is in the orbit of fiction processed in our minds. Between the object and the observer there is the mental process which takes place and I am certain that it is not what is exactly out there since I am a human being and therefore process the data in specific human way .For example color and sound are far more dynamic and complex and the range of their potential to hear and see is extremely limiting for humans therefore what we see is fictionalize idea of what sound, color is. Ok let’s go back to literature and the value of fiction.

Dry data is extremely limiting to understand reality and its power has largely exaggerated. For example there are hundreds of books written about the Armenian Genocide and yet they have failed in large part to convey sense of empathy or understanding what took place. Dry facts like 1.5 million Armenians killed does not by itself say much but in fictionalized form, if a writer can depict and bring real life like characters caught in the times and lived the horror of it then it may be more effective in bringing the gaps between people closer. Another fictionalized work is “Shindler’s list” (the book form originally) which was lot more effective in its portrayal of the Holocaust experience then dry bare none fiction works. In generally literature fills the emotional intellectual content, which brings the bare facts to life, and without fiction the reality would become staid dry place and without poetry, fiction, understanding, empathy life would become monotonous existence.

 

Regards to all

[Harut]

OK, let's rename HyeForum to HerForum.

[Sip]

No. The manual, the quick start guide, and the registration card, as well as all plastic wrappers get put away with the box in my closet for "future reference" .

 

The most amazing thing I have bought so far has been a CD drive for my computer. Oddly enough, the manual came on a computer readable CD!!! The only way you could access the installation instructions was to actually install the drive on your PC first

[Rubo]

Sip jan,on a different note don’t you find most Japanese electronic manuals to be moronic? Japanese are great at many things but understanding English is not one of them. You are better off not reading the manual.

They should stick with pictures! I bought a Casio 4pix digi camera and read the manual at least fifty times and still don’t understand it. I heard that Japanese subcontract their products to cheaper countries such as china or Philippines. I won’t be surprised if some Chinese answers the phone…

Yea, yeo, me do camera mannualls. Me are very good in English ,Chin younooong stop looking at the diKshinary,put that playboy away will ya chin ,or you will get spanking with chopsticks.