vegetarians

[hasmiek]

I have to get rid om my frustration for a second.

 

About 8 years ago I decided not to eat meat anymore. Back then it was a pretty big decision, and mostly difficult for the people around me who got completely confused in what to cook when i would come to dinner. Now my brother and my parents also are vegetarians, so in fact is great.

 

The problem now is that people, and mostly the armenians i know don't seem to understand that_

1.fish and chicken are also animals. so i won't never eat them.

2.I won't eat kofte or meaty dolma 'for just once'. no matter how good it is supposed to taste.

 

The idea of eating meat makes me sick. I see and feel the mistreated and tortured animals when i just even think about it. And i get sick of defening myself, while i know i'm doing the good thing.

 

-i had a armenian dinnerparty last night, and had the same 'why don't you eat meat' discussions as always, and it still pisses me off. ...

 

[ March 18, 2002, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: hasmiek ]

[khodja]

Hasmiek,

 

When I visited Armenia, there was a young local Armenian girl on the bus, who not realizing my advanced age, sat next to me on the tour bus. She was very animated in her conversations and was very obvious about how she felt concerning me. The conversation proceeded in Armenian, albeit her Eastern Armenian being more difficult for me to understand than my Western Armenian for her to understand. This back-and-forth banter went on for about 1/2 hour. The conversation never proceeded to to the matter of my unapparent advanced age. I mentioned that I was a pure vegetarian and alluded to my beliefs when it came to eating meat. At this point she rose from her seat, stated that she does not agree that Armenians should not eat meat, stated that she is a Christian and moved to another seat. I still believe in the Jesus Christ I learned about in my Protestant Church. I am open to Eastern religious beliefs, but did not discuss these with her. She had assumed that I was a Hindu.

 

I have been to Armenian family dinners where I have been harrassed by family members about my vegetarian diet. My cousin secretly put meat products in the dinner she served me, just to get me BACK IN LINE.

 

Bravo to you for standing your ground. These "eshoo-kloughs" don't know how beneficial this diet is. At the time I visited Armenia, I appeared to be 20-25 years younger than I am. The Russian border guards (why Russians now and not Armenians?) closely scrutinized my passport thinking I was not truly me and the persons at the hotel were astounded.

[Azat]

Dear Hasmiek,

On January first it was my 9th year since I stopped eating meat(my sister stopped a year after I did too) and to this day even people close to me offer me meat dishes as if they feel that I may just say "ya, why not, I know you make great kebab, so I will have some".

 

I however do not get pissed or upset, I make fun of the situation unless they get to a point of harassment and then I would make some shocking statement about what they are eating and it all stops.

 

I do have to say, initially it was a hard decision as so many Armenian dishes have meat in it, but now I am so happy because I have discovered that Armenian cuisine offers so many dishes without meat.

 

(The one thing I have tried to give up and have never been able has been cheese. I still use cheese in my daily diet)

 

BTW, I personally am not sick of "meat" per se. I enjoy cooking in general and I make great meat dishes. I just never get a chance to try them out.

[hasmiek]

well,

 

i usually don't really get pissed of at people who try to make me eat meat. But yesterday i did. it was because those people didn't seem to learn and tried to make me feel guilty about it. [oh, i thought you DID eat chicken, I made it ESPECIALLY

[bellthecat]

Like a lot of things - as long as you keep your beliefs to yourself then others have no right to object. But when you start forcing your fanatical opinions onto other people then they have every right to feel angry. And refusing food that others have taken the time and effort to prepare is a particularly rude thing to do.

 

I can also understand why Armenians in particular should be so hostile to you. Perhaps their parents or grandparents almost starved to death - and for you to be now so extreme about what you will and will not eat would be deeply insulting to their memory.

 

Steve

[bellthecat]

Oh - and not just Armenians, many people starved to death in Holland during the second world war.

[hasmiek]

well,

 

i usually don't really get pissed of at people who try to make me eat meat. But yesterday i did. it was because those people didn't seem to learn and tried to make me feel guilty about it. [oh, i thought you DID eat chicken, I made it ESPECIALLY for you, who's gonna eat it now???...you know the deal, i've eaten there loads of times and every time it's the same story. and next time i'm

probably going to call them the day before I come there to make sure they even try to remember.

 

hagarag, great that you feel so good in health with not eating meat...i have to say that since my dad stopped eating meat his health is way better, and he looks more lively aswell. Cant be a coincidence!

[hasmiek]

the fact that people still starve to death in some places in the world doesn't count any more?

 

That animals are treated like trash hurts me as much as people dying of hunger. And a lot of hunger, and environmental problems in the world have to do with the meat industry.

 

I don't think it's rude to refuse food that people made for me. I think it's rude to not respect my beliefs. I don't care if people eat meat on the same table, that's their bussiness. they should respect were I stand in this issue.

 

[ March 18, 2002, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: hasmiek ]

[khodja]

Bellthecat,

 

Your latest comments confirm for me why the Turkish-Armenian dilemma can not be solved. YOU are as pig-headed, if not MORE pig-headed than the Armenians I know. Are you a typical Turk? I sit with friends and family whrer they are eating steak-filet minion, pork, chicken and fish. I do not assuage them for what yhey eat. What bothers them is that I have chosen a different path. Just my being there in front of them and not eating what they eat is problematical for them. Live and let live is my motto. When the Ittihadist leaders brought a member of my family to their headquarters and stated to him that he was very important to Turkey's future, but that if he did not renounce his Christianity, they would have to have him executed, that was Turkish pig-headedness to the extreme.

 

So we have here both pig-headed Armenians and pig-headed Turks, namely you.

[khodja]

Hasmiek,

 

These relatives are playing a sick psychological game with you. It is a control mechanism. They know that you are vegetarian, but insist that you eat the chicken that they have prepared. They are being Levantine, sly dogs. This is typical for Armenians. I remember a family dinner with prominent Armenian members of my family. When I did not eat anything but the salad at their home, they acted as if I was a traitor to the Armenian cause. These big players on the Armenian scene screaming at me "What kind of an Armenian are you? You don't eat our food." There are many delicious Armenian dishes which are totallly vegetarian, but they chose to serve only the meat dishes, so they could make me squirm.

[MosJan]

Congratulations to bellthecat and hagarag you get the gold medal for turning vegetarian topic to another Armenian-Turkish topic /

 

!!! BRAVO !!!

[Azat]

Steve,

Based on your statement, I or anyone else should not be a vegetarian because there are people who are starving to death today and who knows maybe the person who is offering me the food has some relative in those parts of the world.

Azat

[khodja]

It has been proven that you can adequately feed a larger number of people by using resources to produce vegetable foods only, instead of channeling these resources into meat and dairy production. Also, the polluting by-products of vegetable products are much less polluting than the by-products of animal food production. So your argument, Mr. Steve. does not hold water.

[khodja]

We vegans are experts at methods of sustainable agriculture which will not deplete the land or rivers. Furthermore many crops are produced in Armenia.

[Harut]

common you guys.

who were our ancestors already?

monkeys or cows.

[THOTH]

I understand hasmeik's point completley. Though i am in no way a vegan - many of my close friends are and so are some of my Armenians reletives - so I always have to be sensative when preparing meals for guests etc. And I have seen the pressure put upon vegans by "normal" meat eating Armenians...LOL (It is just the Armenian way - as long as it doessn't go to far I say have a laugh about it and perhaps take an oppurtunity to educate if possible)

 

I think you all have misunderstood Bellthecats initial commet in this thread - I don't think it was advocating - just observing. (regarding the possible Armenain perspective).

 

There can be arguments for or against vegatarianism versus meat eating as well as the impact of each on the environment. Somehow I think that there is a balance somewhere - but there are certainly pollution (and perhaps health) issues common to both that could be better done. (always more of a problem when conglomerates get involved...efficiency is often at the expense of the future or some other enterprise next door...and why should they care if it is ugly - etc - they live in another town anyway...)

 

And sure - it may be (somewhat) rude to turn down food preparred for as a guest - but really now - what if you were allergic. And heh - there are certain things that I just don't eat (I do try new things though) - we all have preferrence/idisychrancies etc and certainly the decision to be vegan should be respected - and in many cases this alters the digestive process where it is basically not possible to ewat meat without getting sick - even if one whished to just to make Auntee happy etc...

[khodja]

Harut,

 

Not all vegetarians are Hindus. Vegans don't eat milk products either, nor chickens, pigs, ducks, snails, fish, etc. We do not revere cows nor these other animals as our ancestors, as Hindus do. Come on, Harut, get your facts straight.

[Harut]

do they eat dogs? :comfused:

 

man, you think too hard.

 

take it easy.

[Harut]

do they implement their lifestyles to their babies too?

if so, poor babies.

[khodja]

The only milk that humans should feed on is the natural milk of their mothers, and only until they are weaned from this. Cows milk should not be consumed by humans, infant nor adult. It was devised by God for baby cows, not baby nor adult humans.

[khodja]

Vegans don't eat dog meat or the meat of ANY animal, nor anything that comes from an animal.

[MosJan]

instead of arguing or getting frustrated, one of you might teak 2 minuets of your time and explain the rest of us, what can a vegetarian eat or what can't a vegetarian eat, lintel more dateless then all of us might understand.

 

Movses

[khodja]

Vegans eat only grains, vegetables, fruits, beans and the by-products of any of these.

 

Lacto-vegetarians eat the above, and milk and milk products.

 

Ovo-vegetarians eat all above and eggs and egg products.

 

Some partial vegetarians eat these and only fish.

[MosJan]

Thank you

[Sip]

I like EVERYTHING except tomatoes. I am a lot like the garbage disposer in the house. Whatever is left over, I eat (except chunks of tomatoes). This way, the environment is saved from all the trash that we produce in the kitchen

 

On a serious note, I can respect being a vegatarian for health reasons. The only thing I don't agree with is the tortured animals business. What about all the plants that you "torture" and eat? Why should animals get better treatment than plants?

 

By the way, I want to be clear that I don't disrespect anyone's decision to live in any way they want. It's just that this particular choice (about being vegeterian), I don't understand ... and why not just cut back on meat? A chicken a month doesn't sound that horrible.