gamavor Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by hagarag:"Atta Boy" is an American idiomatic expression which means "bravo" or "good boy." It is a way to praise someone for good deeds or good words.Thanks:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Originally posted by gamavor:Arpa, the map of the Armenian Empire seems to me somehow incorrect. The "jamanagavor" territories close to and along side Pontus, were not "jamanagavor", but constant for the time being and also for many centuries had thriving Armenian colonies.As to Constantinople (Istanbul is a dirty word in my vocabulary) it is well known that many Armenian nobility find refuge there and were granted special status within Byzantium, as well as many Armenian princely houses were part of Byzantium nobility. =======For centuries we chased that pot of gold, we practiced the "our hats hon kats" philosophy and when the hats turned into poison... we are still suffering the damage. Armenians have never accepted tha fact that they are an eastern people. Of couse! Who would want to be lumped with Persians, Arabs and other "disgusting" people? We have always tried to pass as Europeans, get close to Europe and act as such. Hence the large Armenian colony, "refuge" in Istanbul/Constantinople. Those who deny their heritage, pretent to be what they are not will have little to complain when the knife comes down in a foreign Land. I have often compared our Genocide with others' massacres and have pointed out the difference that "we were massacred on our own ancestral lands". Maybe. Istanbul was never "our ancestral land". This in part answers Raffi's rebuttal to my "when and by whom was Istanbul promised to us"? Of course it was not promisde by anybody at anytime but we seemed to not know this. We left our ancestral lands and sought prosperity and comfort at the edge of Europe. We did meet the edge, yes we did, we saw the edge of the sharp Turkish sword. PS: Is it a joke about the camels. As far as I know they were only "transiting" Armenia? It was not only a joke it was also a parody and satire.I am sure there were camels in Armenia one time when we had deserts and expansive plains. The camel is nocknamed the "ship of the desert" and it is perfectly suited with its wide padded and insulated foot. Modern Armenia has very little desert, one can only fir one or two camels in it. Armenia is a rocky, craggy and mountainous, camels cannot thrive and work there. That is why we have so many jackasses and mules (interpret this as you wish), they are perfectly suited for the terrain with their long ears, stubborness and hard hooves.As to my remark about "the camel is extinct in Armenia since we could not agree whether it was 'miasapat' or 'erksapat', or rather 'bazmasapat', it was in reference to the millions of political parties and factions, you may also notice that 'misapat/erksapat' was a parody of "miabnak/erkbnak". Our church is a "miabnak" (monophysite, whatever the hell that means) as opposed to the Universal Church that is "erkbnak"(diphysite, whatever the hell that means) Miabnak=having one bnutyun, one nature etc. Do camels fly? See my next post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I'm one of the few that believes that we are the center of the Civilization:) That said, I don't think we should strive to come close to Europe, but Europe should strive to come close to us, where basically they originated from. So, there is NO special place in my heart for "going West", because we are the West. As to monophisyte vs. dyphysite, I guess that was part of the same tendencies to coop us. In essence there is no difference. The difference is created only for the purpose to be different, which is convenient for everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffi the Illuminator Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Originally posted by Arpa:Originally posted by gamavor:[qb]Arpa, the map of the Armenian Empire seems to me somehow incorrect. The "jamanagavor" territories close to and along side Pontus, were not "jamanagavor", but constant for the time being and also for many centuries had thriving Armenian colonies.As to Constantinople (Istanbul is a dirty word in my vocabulary) it is well known that many Armenian nobility find refuge there and were granted special status within Byzantium, as well as many Armenian princely houses were part of Byzantium nobility. =======For centuries we chased that pot of gold, we practiced the "our hats hon kats" philosophy and when the hats turned into poison... we are still suffering the damage. Armenians have never accepted tha fact that they are an eastern people. Of couse! Who would want to be lumped with Persians, Arabs and other "disgusting" people? We have always tried to pass as Europeans, get close to Europe and act as such. Hence the large Armenian colony, "refuge" in Istanbul/Constantinople. Those who deny their heritage, pretent to be what they are not will have little to complain when the knife comes down in a foreign Land. I have often compared our Genocide with others' massacres and have pointed out the difference that "we were massacred on our own ancestral lands". Maybe. Istanbul was never "our ancestral land". This in part answers Raffi's rebuttal to my "when and by whom was Istanbul promised to us"? Of course it was not promisde by anybody at anytime but we seemed to not know this. We left our ancestral lands and sought prosperity and comfort at the edge of Europe. We did meet the edge, yes we did, we saw the edge of the sharp Turkish sword. Even though some Armenians were "uprooted" so to speak in the western part of Turkey (ie. Istanbul/Constantinople), the majority of the massacres and deportations, according to what I understand took place on our ancestral lands in the east which at the time was occupied by the Ottomans. Some scholars argue the reason for this was because the eastern part of Turkey was too close to Europe and would probably attract too much "attention" so to speak. And as for those of you that would like to visit Turkey, by all means do so. Personally, I choose not to because I think I would get into "problems" LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffi the Illuminator Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 OOPS! :S (sorry! still learning lol) Ok here's my message so no one get's confused as to who said what and also I don't get sued by anyone here for plagiarizing or not following proper citation procedures : Even though some Armenians were "uprooted" so to speak in the western part of Turkey (ie. Istanbul/Constantinople), the majority of the massacres and deportations, according to what I understand took place on our ancestral lands in the east which at the time was occupied by the Ottomans. Some scholars argue the reason for this was because the eastern part of Turkey was too close to Europe and would probably attract too much "attention" so to speak. And as for those of you that would like to visit Turkey, by all means do so. Personally, I choose not to because I think I would get into "problems" LOL --------------------“Once you decide to "titillate" instead of illuminate, you're on a slippery slope” (Bill Moyers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffi the Illuminator Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Raffi the Illuminator:OOPS! :S (sorry! still learning lol) Ok here's my message so no one get's confused as to who said what and also I don't get sued by anyone here for plagiarizing or not following proper citation procedures : Even though some Armenians were "uprooted" so to speak in the western part of Turkey (ie. Istanbul/Constantinople), the majority of the massacres and deportations, according to what I understand took place on our ancestral lands in the east which at the time was occupied by the Ottomans. Some scholars argue the reason for this was because the eastern part of Turkey was too close to Europe and would probably attract too much "attention" so to speak. And as for those of you that would like to visit Turkey, by all means do so. Personally, I choose not to because I think I would get into "problems" LOL --------------------“Once you decide to "titillate" instead of illuminate, you're on a slippery slope” (Bill Moyers).ARGH! SORRY! I MEANT THE WESTERN PART OF TURKEY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Raffi the Illuminator:OOPS! :S (sorry! still learning lol) Ok here's my message so no one get's confused as to who said what and also I don't get sued by anyone here for plagiarizing or not following proper citation procedures: Hi Raffi To quote someone, you click the icon located above the post. If you're planning on editing/shortening their post, make sure that "Quote" and "QB" tags are closed - ie. if there is a "Quote" tag, there msut also be a corresponding "/Quote" tag. The tags must of course be enclosed in square brackets like these: [tag] To edit your own posted (instead of posting again) you can click the icon. Hope this helps [ March 05, 2003, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: vava ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffi the Illuminator Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Ok thanks Yes it does help quite a bit......Sorry if I'm clogging up the forum here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) To open an old thread. Many participants are not active anymore. I just received this book dedicated and autographed by the author. http://hairenik.com/armenianweekly/fea12010701.htm My question. Have any of us participated in such a nostalgically tearful “pilgrimage”? How many of us have the desire? The authors ancestors hail from Arabkir, later Akn/Agn the birthplace of Siamanto, where he finds his family‘s house which now is occupied by a local family. Given that many of our readers hail from places other than Kilikia and Western Armenia, how many of us desire to visit t'hose places? Օհան, դու քո պապենական աշխարհից մի երկու ժամ հեռու կապրիս, դու Այնթապ այցելած ես, կամ կը փափաքիս? Օհան, խնդրեմ մեզ գրիր «ուխտ/ ուխտաւոր» ի մասին From the Websters. Main Entry: pil·grim Pronunciation: \ˈpil-grəm\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French pelerin, pilegrin, from Late Latin pelegrinus, alteration of Latin peregrinus foreigner, from peregrinus, adjective, foreign, from peregri abroad, from per through + agr-, ager land — more at for, acre Date: 13th century 1: one who journeys in foreign lands : wayfarer2: one who travels to a shrine or holy place as a devotee3capitalized : one of the English colonists settling at Plymouth in 1620 I have been solicited several times to join such a “pilgrimage”, Thanks, But no Thanks, for me. Finally. Let’s see what Toumanian says about “pilgrimage/Ուխտաւոր”. Above I had posted the opening lines. Below the full text. Toumanian must be turning in his Sacred Grave for being repeatedly RAPED by that stupid “un-orthography”, he certainly did not write it that way in 1893. I am too lazy to correct it, cross all the T’s and dot all the I’s. ===== ՀԱՅ ՈՒԽՏԱՒՈՐԻՆ Յ ովաննէս Թումանեան Գնա՛ս բարով, ա՛յ ուխտավոր, Երանի քեզ, հայ ուխտավոր, Որ կարոտով ու սիրառատ Ուխտ ես գնում դեպ Արարատ։ Զեփյուռներով, ծաղկանց բույրով, Ինչպես ծնող սիրագորով, Քեզ կողջունեն զմրուխտ հագած Գեղամ սարերն ու Արագած, Ու կարոտած աչքի նըման Քեզ կըժպտա վճիտ Սևան, Որ լեռների շուքերի հետ Խաղ է անում, խայտում վետ-վետ, Փայլփլում է ծըփանքներով, Հորինում է լույսերի ծով, Եվ մերթ վշտով ու տխրությամբ Սևանում է, ինչպես մութ ամպ... Հապա էն սա՜րն, էն սար հսկան, Էն սարերի սարն ու արքան, Լազուր երկնի ծոցը մըտած, Ճերմակ գլուխն ամպեր փաթթած, Ահա կանգնեց ծանր ու տրտում Քու առաջևն ու քու սրտում... Է՜, նա արդեն քանի սև դար Պերճ գագաթովն իր ձյունափառ Շողշողում է, փայլատակում, Եվ ուխտավոր հայի հոգում Հպարտության ծնում թունդեր Եվ սիրելի երազ՝ թե դեռ Էն երկնահաս Մասյաց կատար, Ուր հին տապանն առավ դադար, Դադար կառնեն փառքերն մեր հին, Որ նորափայլ իջնեն կըրկին... Հենց խոնարհես աչքերըդ ցած, Լայն դաշտի մեջ, առջևդ հանկարծ, Մառախուղից իր խաչի հետ Կըբարձրանա մի սուր գըմբեթ, Որ կըխոսի մարդու հոգուն՝ — «Խաղաղութիւն ամենեցուն»... Էնտեղ էն հին դարերից վեր, Երկնաքարոզ, հուժկու ձայներ, Սահակ Պարթև, Ներսես մեծին Խաղաղություն քարոզեցին։ Էնտեղ լցված ահեղ հոգով, Աստվածային իր տեսիլքով, «Էջմիածինն ի Հօրէ», Որ Հայաստան լուսավորե։ Ու լույսն առան ծավալեցին Լուսավորիչն ու մեծ Տրդատ, Ու տակավին այնտեղ կեցած Կըսավառնեն հոգիացած։ Edited May 11, 2009 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hosank Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 vorovhedev an nuty massin ge xossink, essem vor yes ge papakim turkya ertal, yev kal amare yerp jamanag kdnem ne, sirov g'ertam bolis, engeroch ounim hon. g'ouzem al sebastia ou adana yertal, im endanikis babenagan hoghere. paits chem haskenar inchoo hayutiuni hamar havanapar medz harts e turkyia ertal? i think that throughout the last century, as armenians we have had many perceptions about turkey and turks which may need to be updated, or either way the best way to know what you're talking about is to see it first hand...and this goes not only for turkey but for armenia herself. hajoxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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