Harut Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 if most of the ancient Armenian "nakharar"s and other rulers were non-Armnians, then what were Armenians doing at that time. they were out of town??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh00t Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 Inch geses gor 'lan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernaut Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 Harut, they claimed to have non-Armenian ancestry (this as yet has not been proven), but they were in fact as much Armenian as the common folk, unfortunatelly in many cases our nobles did not act in the interests of the general populance, but this was also the case elsewhere before the arrival of the concept of nationalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 If they were truly of Armenian ancestry, why would they claim to be non-Armenian? To rule over a people and claim that you are not one of them is total idiocy. Unless you are truly not one of them and it is so obvious that claiming otherwise would futher diminish one's credibility in the eyes of the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernaut Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 quoteIf they were truly of Armenian ancestry, why would they claim to be non-Armenian? To rule over a people and claim that you are not one of them is total idiocy. Unless you are truly not one of them and it is so obvious that claiming otherwise would futher diminish one's credibility in the eyes of the people. As I said the concept of nationality did not come into being untill late 18th Century (French Revolution and Napoleon). Before that people thought differently, and how should I know why they claimed non-Armenian ancestry, maybe just to be different. Also, in many other kingdoms the nobles were of different nationality than to the commoners. For example, the ruling class in the Baltic states was German, and the ruling class of England was French immidiatlly after the Norman Invasion of 1066. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted October 11, 2001 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2001 another thought that bothers me. so many people claim that Armenians have Chinese genes because of Mamikonians.isn't that kind of absurde???? even if we suppose that Mamikonians (or rather, their origins) were Chinese in ethnicity. how many Chinese-Mamikonians came to Armenia?????? 1? 10? 1,000? or a million?? i suppose no more than 10 or so. then their children and grandchildren married to Armenians, for sure. and now you are saying that those 10 Chinese people from 1,500-2,000 years ago have segnificantlly affected our haritage???? i don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThornyRose Posted October 11, 2001 Report Share Posted October 11, 2001 Good points, Harut. It's like a lot of people referring to Mongols when name-calling Turks - and it is like Turkish ultra-nationalists claiming to belong to some Turkish race which is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted October 11, 2001 Report Share Posted October 11, 2001 Harut, The Mamikonian genes would have primarily affected a small group of Armenians, primarily among the nobility. The Mongol genes, however, would have spread more evenly among the populace. It is rarely spoken that some Mongol leaders and soldiers converted to Armenian Christianity. The reason some of us emphasize these things is because of the obstinacy of some Armenians who claim that we are ethnically SO pure. The Turks never claim this. Nevertheless 10 people from 1600 years ago would exponentially spread their genes to a sizeable number of Armenians. Go into a diverse Armenian crowd and you can ascertain Asian features among some of the faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThornyRose Posted October 12, 2001 Report Share Posted October 12, 2001 Khodja, in a pool so dilute with those genes, how can you actually notice anything? My mother is Circassian, but nobody notices I am the daughter of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted October 12, 2001 Report Share Posted October 12, 2001 Thorny, It has to do with recessive genes. My cousin lives in what was until a few years ago a very conservative community that was exclusively Anglo-Saxon. Only a few Italian-Americans and Armenian-Americans has been allowed reluctantly to purchase homes there. An Anglo-Saxon couple, who were born and raised in the American South had been homeowners there for some 20 years. Their first three children had the appearance of Northern European children. The fourth had pronounced African appearance. Geneological research revealed that both the husband and wife were descended from the progeny of master-slave unions in pre Civil War America. In California there are descendants of the Mexican landowners who in 150 years have lost any appearace of being of Mexican heritage. This in just a few generations. With the right combination of parents, however, the recessive genes may prevail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted October 12, 2001 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2001 khodja,you are explaining those genetic stuff well.but how would you explain so many Armenians looking very like Europeans(white) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted October 12, 2001 Report Share Posted October 12, 2001 The original peoples of the Armenian region were white as well as were the Armens, French, Hebrews, Assyrians. That does not preclude the assimilation of Asians and even East African peoples. Just look around a large Armenian crowd. The mix is apparent. You can find the Scandinavian, Balkan look, Semitic look even Asian look tendencies. We are a mixed bag genetically. This was confirmed recently by a DNA study of the Y-chromosome (male chromosome)of a cross section of Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted October 15, 2001 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2001 who were the original people of Armenia??? Armens, people of Hayasa, Somkheti, Nairi, ....??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted October 23, 2001 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2001 quote:Originally posted by khodja:The Mamikonian genes would have primarily affected a small group of Armenians, primarily among the nobility.Yes, correct, very small group of Armenians. quoteNevertheless 10 people from 1600 years ago would exponentially spread their genes to a sizeable number of Armenians.10 people from 1600 years ago VS 1 million people from 1600 years ago doesn't make much of a difference, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted October 23, 2001 Report Share Posted October 23, 2001 The genticists can sort it all out if the politicians allow it. Given the cult of superiority that both Armenians and Turks harbor, I suspect that such truths will not be revealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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