ara baliozian Posted June 1, 2001 Report Share Posted June 1, 2001 OR: THAT WHICH SAROYAN REFUSED TO SEE**************************************************Saroyan introduced Armenians to the world and he was smart enough to know that when you do the introductions in a social setting you are not under oath; you don’t need to say "This is my cousin, Jack S. Avanakian who happens to be a damn fool!" What you say instead is: "My cousin Jack." Saroyan himself was willing to concede that his Armenian characters in his books are "stylized" – a euphemism for distorted to fit a specific image or worldview. And to Saroyan the world was a wonderful place populated by wonderful peopleAs for the dark side of life: he let others handle that aspect of reality. And others did, among them our own writers, among them the 5th century historian Yeghishe, who said: "If a nation is ruled by two kings, both the kings and their subjects will perish." Gentle reader, imagine if you can a nation ruled by five mini-sultans, fifty phony padishas and five hundred fat-bellied *****s. On second thought, no need to imagine anything: just take a look around yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 1, 2001 Report Share Posted June 1, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:OR: THAT WHICH SAROYAN REFUSED TO SEE**************************************************Saroyan introduced Armenians to the world and he was smart enough to know that when you do the introductions in a social setting you are not under oath; you don’t need to say "This is my cousin, Jack S. Avanakian who happens to be a damn fool!" What you say instead is: "My cousin Jack." Saroyan himself was willing to concede that his Armenian characters in his books are "stylized" – a euphemism for distorted to fit a specific image or worldview. And to Saroyan the world was a wonderful place populated by wonderful peopleAs for the dark side of life: he let others handle that aspect of reality. And others did, among them our own writers, among them the 5th century historian Yeghishe, who said: "If a nation is ruled by two kings, both the kings and their subjects will perish." Gentle reader, imagine if you can a nation ruled by five mini-sultans, fifty phony padishas and five hundred fat-bellied *****s. On second thought, no need to imagine anything: just take a look around yourself.Ara Baliozian,I liked what you said. That rocks. I have a doubt about one line, like this one "Saroyan introduced Armenians to the world"Don't you thing that sometimes those who "INTRODUCE", should care also about introducing others...May be, because of this natural "human" dilema, that we don't have that many serious "introducer"-s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 Mr. Baliozian, How do you introduce Armenians to the world? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 Or maybe you introduce Armenians to themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted June 2, 2001 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 you introduce armenians to the world by giving them a human face; until saroyan, armenians were known as starving victims of turkish atrocities...as for introducing armenians to themselves: i have been trying to do that without much success, alas! / ara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 I can't diasgree with you, MJ!Actually, this relationship looses its charm.I do agree with you, MJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 quote:Originally posted by naira:I do agree with you, MJ! Don't let it threaten you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 quote:Originally posted by MJ:Don't let it threaten you. Oh, you are such a "nasty kid", MJ!Oops: "...that was the first threatening..."Do you see what I'm going through? Some SM stuff relationship? But I do resist... I don't know for how long... Don't worry, honeybunny!I won't let it threaten me! Promise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 What does SM stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by MJ:What does SM stand for?Log on private, kid!I can't explain it in public! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by naira: Log on private, kid!I can't explain it in public! I am underaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 Do you think that SM is for underaged?Hm, poor boy! Log off from private talk then! [ June 02, 2001: Message edited by: naira ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 Do you believe this??? A shiny day I was sitting in my balcony and reading local papers, I came across to an article, which was about a kiwi painter, living in Northland, far away from Auckland about 4 hours, named Toki Aram... I got excited more and more, by looking at his picture on the paper and some of his works. He was nice looking face, white hair, deep smile. I couldn't hold my breath, I jumped on my telephone and dialed the number that was on the paper. A very friendly sound answered me. Yes, He was Toki Aram! I started asking him questions and got these answers.-Irish in origin, Aram is his artistic name, he is using it just to keep his promise to armenian couple from Australia, who helped him to sell his works in an exhibition, under one condition: You must sign the name Aram, as a rememberence of one of armenian International writer's, Saroyan's, who have a book named ''My name is Aram'', and you are looks like that guy... Toki Aram finished his story telling me that he has already read all the works of Saroyan and he knows lots of thing about Armenians...I was surprised, he was surprised and we became a very close frinds on line. Almost every week he was calling me just to read his new poetry to me, or to tell me something new about his novel. After several months he came to Auckland to see me. We had great time together. He is my best friend now, although he is in 60's.Now I'm trying to visit him in his place, where people can only ride horse, watch the whales and eat from their garden... Interesting, isn't it? This is what can Saroyan still do!--------------------------------Dragon P.S.Hope you understand my English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian: until saroyan, armenians were known as starving victims of turkish atrocities...Dear Ara,Let me disagree with you, please, in this. Hardly any significant number of non Armenians has read Saroyan, or has even heard his name. Saroyan is not Hemingway, and not even Scott Fitzgerald. Perhaps, at best, he has introduced Armenians to Armenian Diaspora, and has portrayed an image beyond that of "starving Armenians" to the Armenians themselves. In my view, Armenia(ns) was(were) introduced to the world as a result of two things: 1. Karabagh (being the first movement in the USSR over which the Kremlin has lost its control); 2. Earthquake (due to the fact that chronologically it has overlapped with the visit of Gorbachev to the UN Assembly, which was being highly publicised).[ June 02, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by dragon:P.S.Hope you understand my English Can't be better explained, Dragon! Touching story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted June 3, 2001 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 about saroyan:in the 1950s saroyan was translated into all the major languages of the world: in greece i read him in greek, in italy i read him in italian; even the existentialists in france were his fans..../ ara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:about saroyan:in the 1950s saroyan was translated into all the major languages of the world: in greece i read him in greek, in italy i read him in italian; even the existentialists in france were his fans..../ araYeah, I agree!Where is he now, Saroyan? Condemned to remain an anonymous intellectual? Today he could help. May be one day he will return. I don't exclude this possibility. Human litarature knows many examples, when an ancient writer became recognised as a phenomenon and genious centuries later after his death.But again, the question will be, where is he, Saroyan, today, the one who was well-knwon when he was alive.Don't you think that the answer should be diged out from a deeper root than just his armenian origins.[ June 03, 2001: Message edited by: naira ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted June 3, 2001 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 many writers are popular when they are alive and forgotten... or almost... after they die...in france you have the example of Anatole France and to some extent even Sartre...who is far less popular today than when he was alive...literary fortunes and popularity are "sometime things..." / ara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:many writers are popular when they are alive and forgotten... or almost... after they die...in france you have the example of Anatole France and to some extent even Sartre...who is far less popular today than when he was alive...literary fortunes and popularity are "sometime things..." / araAra,sweet heart!You are missing something. We are not talking about dead people.Besides, I live in France. I won't say that Anatole France is forgotten here. In bookinist environment he still has his fans. Talking about Sartre, he is present in evryday's French life. Cinema, Television, Print media, CD-ROMs, scetches, anecdotes.This is how ends up a strong personality.Though his rediculous physical appeareance Sartre stays a modern countryman for many French and non-French "average" citizens.Sartre is a thinker and visionary as well. Folks like him never disappear, without being beaten by someone or something stronger.I hope you understood my point.---P.S.It's kind of a nice to have you arround.Looks like you quit feeling alone.Nice to see you, Maestro![ June 03, 2001: Message edited by: naira ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted June 3, 2001 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 in that sense saroyan is also alive and well too... the critical fire that has been directed against sartre has been so strong and almost unanimous that he is no longer an influence...ditto for anatole france...their names are around yes, but their influence has plunged...by the way, i am a fan of both writers.../ara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:in that sense saroyan is also alive and well too... the critical fire that has been directed against sartre has been so strong and almost unanimous that he is no longer an influence...ditto for anatole france...their names are around yes, but their influence has plunged...by the way, i am a fan of both writers.../araSorry, honey!I should disagree. You cannot estimate an influence of a person by the critic interpretation of his deeds. I still reapeat what I say above. It is not a "blow-up" or put-up story. Neither my personal ambition to stand for Sartre's influence in the modern French culture and mainstream philosophy.Sartre for today's France is one of biggest man of this century. If you know a bit the French phylosophical legalised "undergound" actuality, you should have been studied or read Bernard-Henri Levy's interpretation of Sartre as a thinker.Let's skip what Bernard-Henri Levy analysed, let's take the other aspect of his intention.He chose Sartre intenionally by knowning if you want to immortalise yourself try to oppose yourself to epoque's main think-tanks.This is actually another reason ton affirm that Sartre is important for French and non-French societies.Yesterday, I've been in Beabourg, I hope you know what is Beaubourg. There was an exposition named "Les années Pop", dedicated to post-war (WWII) evolution of human society in a 15 minute film which was broadcasted on three video screens in that exposition puts Sartre in the same row with Martin Luther King, Maryleen Monroe, JF Kennedy, Gagarin, Vietnam, Woodstock, May 1968, Cohn-Bendit and other idols and symbols of that epoque.I'm not fond of symbols. But I think that resumes how French view the position of Sartre in their society. And not only the French ...Sorry. Your opinion on Sartre influence is more like a ordinary "jelousy". I didn't notice a slightest presence of any serious argument...Is it you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted June 4, 2001 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 sorry again: i too must disagree....sartre's marxism and rapprochement with stalin and support of cuba's castro have dimninished his stature as a thinker.his thinking was motivated not by objective analysis but byhis hatred of the french bourgeoisie of which he was himself a member. i hate the bourgeoisie too, regardless of nationality, but i don't allow it to blind me to the dangers and crimes of fascism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:sorry again: i too must disagree....sartre's marxism and rapprochement with stalin and support of cuba's castro have dimninished his stature as a thinker.his thinking was motivated not by objective analysis but byhis hatred of the french bourgeoisie of which he was himself a member. i hate the bourgeoisie too, regardless of nationality, but i don't allow it to blind me to the dangers and crimes of fascism...I thought we were talking about the influence and historic personalities who stayed in human history. I'm avoiding to discuss Sartre philosophy. It's much more large scaled and controversial than those those critics who label his thoughts by narrowing it and decorating with a cream of communist doctrine.Ara, we were talking about influencial personalities. And about "introducers"... look where we came up to! See the difference, honey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:In his memoirs (LES MOTS) Sartre himself is willing to concede that most of his early thought was misguided. His honesty was one of his most admirable qualities and I admire him for it. But again the central message of his philosophy (a combination of Husserl and Marx) has been bypassed. He is part of world literature, of course, and his name will never be forgotten; but compared to his position of eminence when he was alive, his stock has gone down considerably. By contrast, Camus’ has gone up – always comparatively speaking, of course…perhaps because Camus was smart enough not to be taken in by Soviet propaganda. Another writer who has been gaining in reputation is Marcel Proust. Still another whose stock has gone down is Kazantzakis…If we strayed too far from our original thread, please ignore this!I'm not going to ignore this, honey!In the contrary I start enjoying to meet you so often. I find you charming and so viril. Because you are the one of those rare "survivors" of Armenian literature who do not give up and still continue to strugle. One of those thinkers who lead probably "bohemian life" but still drink water from "public" spring, puting themselves in the same row with regular mortals.May be you'll find your ultimate work as many Maestros who launch themselves "en quête de soi-même à travers les autres" eternal process.I don't know what would happen to us if writers like you didn't exist in this forum.Probably I'll answer with the words of Jean-Paul Sartre: "Le monde peut fort bien se passer de littérature. Mais il peut se passer de l'homme encore mieux..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:as for introducing armenians to themselves: i have been trying to do that without much success, alas! / araLOL...I see your genle reminder, Maestro!Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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