MJ Posted December 12, 2002 Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 It seems like there haven't been any discussions on the subject of upcoming presidential elections in Armenia in the forum. Any ideas of who would win, why and what to expect from that victory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Posted December 12, 2002 Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 Well, MJ, I don't know exactly how it works in Armenia, but it has crossed my mind that maybe the Forum could deliver a president and however this may sound stupid I'm not joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 I think we should ask Harut to consider. He is the most promising candidate, here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted December 12, 2002 Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 MJ, I know I sound like a fool, but I do not even know who is running for the presidency or what they stand for. I assume Robert Kocharian is running, but who else. Do you know? Azat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 Azat, I don't have the list. I have been told there are about 16 candidates. Some known names mentioned were Vasgen Manukyan, Artashes Geghamyan, Stepan Dermerchyan. Obviously, Kocharyan is on the top of the list. From what I see, it looks like we are going to rise to wish long life to Kocharyan. , unless we can persuade Harut to run and present HyeForum's platform. BA!? [ December 12, 2002, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: MJ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted December 12, 2002 Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 Hey MJ was Vasgen Manukyan a professor of yours in school? He is/was the head of physics faculty in the state university, right? I do not know that other guys with the exception of Kocharian. So how do Armenian elections work. Does someone have to have a clear majority to win(whoever gets the most votes)? Or do they have a runoff until someone gets 50%+1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 No, Azat. He has not been a professor of mine, but I have known him well in my past life - before my reincarnation. When I was a student of Yerevan University, he was an assistant professor at the applied math department. Then he became the first prime-minister of independent Armenia. My understanding is that in Armenia, to win elections, one has to garner more than 50% vote. My understanding is that this is the story behind the 16 candidates - to make everything possible to force a second round of elections, so that then to unify the opposition. But I think it is not going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Posted December 12, 2002 Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 What does the Armenian political system look like? Can anyone explain how it works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by EZ:What does the Armenian political system look like? Can anyone explain how it works?Found it myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 13, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 Dear elly, Sorry I was late. I was about to refer you to the 4th century A.D. manuscripts of Pavstos Buzand, who attests to the fact that Armenians are the authors of the concept and the first implementation of Democratic Society. So, yes, Armenia is a Democratic country for about 1700 years and a role model for the rest of the world. If you don’t believe me, read it yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 [ December 14, 2002, 05:31 AM: Message edited by: EZ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 MJan. Don't tease me please. I tend to believe everything, because I think anything is possible. I can't find proof of what you are saying. If it's not a joke, can you give me a url? Would save me time. And you can add to your pledge of loyalty list "# Everything good on this earth was invented by Armenians". [ December 13, 2002, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: EZ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 yete jisht@ uzum eq imanal - mez prezident petq chi !!! Mez MARD a petq vro et yerkir@ votqi kangnetsny te che ov klini prezident kam chi lini - tarberutyun chuni - chgitem - yes gnam - qani avel pakas baner chem asel - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 Martin - yes im dziyn@ qez em talsi !!! lurj ban em asum Martin vor du prezident lineyir inch kaneyir ? kam inch cheyir ani ? xndrum em Hakirj MOvses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 14, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 Like the old Yerevan joke said, "I will declare war to America and will surrender immediately." P.S. Just kidding. [ December 13, 2002, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: MJ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 quote:Originally posted by MJ:Like the old Yerevan joke said, "I will declare war to America and will surrender immediately." P.S. Just kidding.Ha anybody seen the farcical movie "The Mouse That Roared"? I think Peter Sellers was the leading actor.That is the exact scenario that MJ is suggesting.By all means, find it and view it. It perfectly fits the present Armenia saga.Mote; If you can't find it at your neighborhood video store I can furnish a synopsis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 14, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 OK. On a slightly more serious note... I would have tried to inject a positive outlook for the future of Armenia and faith in our abilities. Would try to elevate the moral of the nation. Next, I would try to create a climate of cooperation in the country and make everyone who loves Armenia - from Idjevan to Goris, from Stepanakert to Paris, from Los Angeles to Watertown MA to feel that they are the owners of Armenia. I would come out and say, "This is our last chance in history - make it or break it. There is not going to be another Armenia. This is the only Armenia that has realistically ever existed and is going to exist." I will say, "Leave the symbols aside (read screw the symbols). 1000 symbols are not worth a human life. 10000 symbols cannot substitute a Homeland." I will also tell them, "Life is competition if you want to win it, go and win - no one will deliver it on a silver plate to you." Then I will bring together all the thieves, criminals, mobsters, state employees … and will say, " whatever you have plundered is enough - there is nothing even left to plunder. Either leave or do something good. Try to become good. This is your only alternative. The other alternative is death for all of us. " Next, I will assign Boghos as Prime Minister, Alpha as the Head of Central Bank, Arpa as Minister of Culture, TB as the head of Counterintelligence Service, will promote Steve/Bellthecat for a leading position in the Academy of Sciences of Armenia. I will also ask Thorny Rose to become the Ambassadore of Armenia in Turkey. Then, I will buy a vineyard in Dilijan, resign from my post (and ask to Garo to take over so that things can get done) and have these guys to run the country. And I will invite you, Mosjan, to my vineyard and will play nardi with you and talk about how good it was years ago to invest so much time and resources in Hye Forum. Then we will grab Thoth and go to the basement to have him choose the best barrel of wine and the three of us will enjoy it for the rest of the time - while the youth works – they would have a lot of work to do, including to figure out what position to assign to each member of Hye Forum to. Their time to drink wine will come when they would get the work done. Forgot to say… someone would need to screw a new light-bulb in the basement – that’s the problem the three of us would need to solve. I hope we would have some minimum wage immigrant employees from some of the newly accepted to the EU countries do it for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 quote:Originally posted by MJ:I think we should ask Harut to consider. He is the most promising candidate, here.actually, this was my dream as a kid, to become the "mets" of the country. i haven't given up yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 it seems Kocharyan is going to win this election too. even though what we hear here about him doesn't really sound nice, people in Armenia seem to be favoring him. togh Geghamyan@ ha iran jghi te "jhoghovurd@ qez chi uzum Kocharyan!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigrannesIII Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 Kocharyan is going to win, which is a double-edged sword. For starters, we'll maintain the hardline stance on Artsax- ever since LDB I've been scared that anyone else who comes to power will sell out Artsakh. Secondly, foreign investors will see a democratically (or should I say "democratically"?) elected leader re-elected, which shows stability and will attract more foreign investment. In Georgia and Azerbaijan, however, those countries may very well go straight to hell when their dictators die. The negative side, is that Kocharyan is (probably) just as corrupt as any other politician. With Kocharyan being re-elected, it will also mean that Raffi Hovanissian WON'T be President, which is unfortunate because he's probably the most qualified candidate. After him, I'd probably say Kocharyan then I've heard rumblings from people that Demerchyan is another candidate who at least cares about the yergir and not his pocketbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Harut:it seems Kocharyan is going to win this election too. even though what we hear here about him doesn't really sound nice, people in Armenia seem to be favoring him. togh Geghamyan@ ha iran jghi te "jhoghovurd@ qez chi uzum Kocharyan!!!""even though what we hear here about him"... Are you saying that what you get to hear "here", is not what they get to hear "there"? It's been suggested/mentioned several times here that Kocharyan is corrupt and that there are (beter, more honest?) alternative candidates. Why would the people vote for Kocharyan then? I don't get this. Either democracy in Armenia is a farce or curruption has become a way of life for everyone, including the ones that don't profit from it. Sorry if I'm jumping to maybe the wrong conclusions but the way I see it, it doesn't matter whether corruption is a cause or a consequence. It's an illness, that should be cured in order to make a healthy (way of) life possible. Actually, I think this illness could very well be ennemy #1 for the Republic of Armenia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 14, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 quote:Originally posted by EZ: Either democracy in Armenia is a farce or curruption has become a way of life for everyone, including the ones that don't profit from it.Dear Elly, It is very easy to corrupt helpless people - all you do is make them believe that there is no hope for better future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 I found this (http://www.aaainc.org/armenia_week/12-06-02.htm): December 6, 2002 FOURTEEN CANDIDATES SEEK REGISTRATION TO CHALLENGE KOCHARIANIncumbent President Robert Kocharian will face up to fourteen challengers in the upcoming election set for February 19. The deadline for submission of applications to Armenia's Central Election Commission (CEC) passed at 6:00PM local time today. In the upcoming weeks each nominee will have to collect at least 35,000 signatures for official registration as presidential candidates in the first half of January. Also this week, the CEC officially limited financing for each candidate's campaign to pre-election funds of no more than $103,000. Campaign donations are limited to roughly $350 for individuals and $860 for businesses. Financing by foreign citizens, the Armenian government and charitable or religious organizations is illegal. According to the Armenian Sociological Association (ASA) and other observers, only four nominees are capable of posing a serious challenge to the incumbent. They are: Artashes Geghamian of the National Unity Party, non-party candidate Raffi Hovannisian, Stepan Demirchian of the People's Party and Vazgen Manukian of the National Democratic Union. A recent ASA survey found that close to a third of all respondents have already decided to vote for Kocharian, with the top opposition candidates polling between five and ten percent. Close to a half of all respondents said they are undecided or inclined not to vote. Over the past two weeks, Kocharian's nomination received endorsements from the Republican, Country of Law (Orinats Yerkir) and Democratic Liberal (Ramkavar Azatakan) Parties, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutiun) and several organizations comprised of local self-government, business and humanitarian leaders. "Considering the disarray in opposition ranks, it is not overly optimistic to expect Kocharian to receive over 60 percent in the first round," said one pro-presidential analyst. The opposition "alliance" of 16 parties, established earlier this year around their commonly espoused goal to unseat Kocharian, has produced nine nominees. Another factor playing to Kocharian's advantage is that ex-President Levon Ter-Petrossian refused to accept the nomination of the former ruling Armenian Pan-National Movement. Below is the list of nominees and their affiliation, arranged in the order of application to the CEC:Stepan Demirchian People's Party Aram Karapetian Constitutional Rights Union Paruir Hairikian Self-Determination Union Artashes Geghamian National Unity Party Robert Kocharian Unaffiliated Raffi Hovannisian Unaffiliated Ruben Avagian United Armenians Party Vazgen Manukian National Democratic Union Garnik Margarian Socialist Armenia Union Aram Sargsian Democratic Party Aram Harutiunian National Accord Party Arshak Sadoyan Union of National Democrats Vladimir Darbinian Communist Party Aram Sargsian Party of the Republic Petros Makeyan Democratic Fatherland Party (Sources: Arminfo 12-2, 3, 5; Noyan Tapan 12-2, 5; R&I Report 12-3; RFE/RL Armenia Report 12-4, 5; Central Election Commission 12-5) [ December 14, 2002, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: EZ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 quote:Originally posted by MJ: quote:Originally posted by EZ: Either democracy in Armenia is a farce or curruption has become a way of life for everyone, including the ones that don't profit from it.Dear Elly, It is very easy to corrupt helpless people - all you do is make them believe that there is no hope for better future.I know Martin. I'm just trying to figure out what's happening over there and what should be changed to make things better. If corruption is an accepted way of life for everyone then nothing will change (any time soon), unless something happens that will wake people up. In one of your recent postings you said that with the improvement of the economic situation also corruption will become less. But that will take ages, plus it's a kind of chicken-egg situation. I think that diaspora Armenians could play a major role in 'curing' the illness as I called it. They are NOT helpless, they KNOW a different way of life and they can show how to live it. So, I'm all for starting a campaign against corruption, coming from the diaspora. I even believe that diasparoan should try to participate in RoA politics. And for the new government, I would suggest to add an anti-corruption Ministry. [ December 14, 2002, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: EZ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 14, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 quote:Originally posted by EZ: Over the past two weeks, Kocharian's nomination received endorsements from the Republican, Country of Law (Orinats Yerkir) and Democratic Liberal (Ramkavar Azatakan) Parties, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutiun) and several organizations comprised of local self-government, business and humanitarian leaders. Like the hymn of Russian Monarchists goes:"Bojhe czaria khroni.." - "God Keep the Czar." [ December 14, 2002, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: MJ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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