Opinions from an Outsider

[gen7474]

qed Edited August 4, 2003 by gen7474

[khodja]

You are getting a very small sampling of Armenians here in this forum. Many of the more progressive Armenians were railroaded out of the community years ago. The Armenians were so under attack over the centuries that they have deveolped an extreme traditional approach as a survival mechanism. To admit that we are an ethnic mixture of Thracians and the indigenous Urarteans, with elements of Mongol, Jew, French Assyrian, Greek would undermine the myth that we are genetically very different than the Turks. Culture is what sets us apart, so therefore the extreme ethnocenticism and xenophobia.

[THOTH]

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Originally posted by gen7474:

Over the past several weeks I have had the opportunity to read many of the things that have been written on this and other web sites concerning Armenians. For the most part I see an extreme traditional view with an attempt to maintain some type of "originalness". Many of the statements and views openly against almost every single race, religion and creed in the name of preservation.

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Please enlighten us regarding what other web sites you have viewed. There are some I think that certainly fall into this category. There are many more that portray Armenian culture (etc) much better - perhaps you have not seen a suficient sample. You should be aware that there are several web forums that are sponsored by a few hateful folks way out of the mainstream - more as platforms for anti-semitism and the like. Do not confuse these with mainstream Armenian views - these extremists have other agendas. That being said - yes many Armenians are highly nationalistic and (sometimes overly) Armo-centric...there are various reasons for this, but to ignore the many enlightened, learned and other Armenian sites and populace is a mistake on your part - and amounts to shoddy (or perhaps biased?) research on your part IMO.

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

Interesting considering Armenians by themselves are very much a mixture of a number of differnet races, religions and creeds. It seems extremely difficult to communicate with such Armenian traditionalists as it always resorts to cultural or other biases. Understanding that Armenia was the first country to adopt Christianity, does it seem odd that such behaviours are against the very teachings of the said religion.

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If you claim Armenians are a mixture of peoples then you obviusly know more then you are letting on because most casual observers would not know/understand this. Please tell us how you obtained this knowledge and I am curious regarding your own ethnic orientation. I think it is a stretch to call Armenians a mixture of different races, creeds & religions etc. Armenians are predominantly Christian and have been for 1700 years - this is a very defining characteristic. And while we (like any group) are composed of a mixture of racial/ethnic elements by and large I would consider Armenians to be - on the whole - very racially and culturally homogeneous - certainly in comparison to many other peoples. As for nationalistic/xenophibic etc type of behaviors being un-Christian - perhaps this is true philosophically at the fundemental level - in my experience this is rarely practiced - and not just by Armenians.

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

I am simply interested in learning about other cultures for research purposes,

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Please tell us more. Are you interested in researching cultures or are you doing so - where, in what discipline, for what program? What is your project?

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

and true it may be unfair to make any conclusions about a community based on their own online communities, but difficult to ignore considering the sheer anger, hostility and rage with feelings of killing, murdering, abandonment of parents, and the obvious disregard for other human beings who are not Armenian that are themes one sees over and over again.

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Yes - do not make such conclusions. You must meet Armenians in person before you make any such observations. Obvioulsy you must also note the presence of such elements and then ponder why these extremists are amoung us (and are we so unique?). Because of our very recent history as a nation (and as people/families) that have experienced such great trauma - this intensifies the distrust and negative reactions towards others (particularly traditional "enemieds" - ie the turks) among some/many of us. Also our long history of survival among/between/within much larger hostile powers has affected our physche. Don't ignore that Armenians are at the same time among the most loving and friendly and passive/peace loving people on earth - IMO. We just want to be left alone.

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

Unfortunate, considering these are not the values taught by your religion and suppose to be upheld by normal civilized people and proud civilizations.

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This comment strikes me as odd - could you elaborate? What is your knowledge of Armenian Orthodox or Christianity in general? What is your standard? (for normal, civilized and proud)

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

It may be that such a random sampling of opinions are from young, uneducated persons who are closed minded and have not yet had the opportunity to braoden their minds to their own opinions.

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agreed - though there is a difference between being uneducated and being narrowmineded. Basically I would agree with this contention however.

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

Surely, many of the thoughts run common and seem to based on some deep rooted anger.

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Do you have any apreciation of why Armenians might be angry?

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

I am simply an outsider loooking in. My thoughts are simply an observation and are not intended to be malefocent. If I detract such opinions from the information on these Armenian online communities, what about all the other odars (strangers).

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Yes - I certainly feel embarrased by some of what i see. If you are researching/examining other cultures can you tell us if (you believe that)Armenians are unique in this?

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

If you are proud of your culture/heritage it should be good enough to show and not be the basis of unruly ignorance. I am interested in seeing if any of the responses to my opinions will have thought proviking dialogue or the very support of my observations.

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Kids - what can I say. Are they not unruly somewhere else - etc? Don't make the false assumption that these behaviors define Armenians.

[Sip]

That is a very interesting point and I have often thought that myself. However, on this board at least, there seem to be a number of very open minded and intelligent people, as well as a number of very close minded traditionalists, as well as a number of conservative religeous types. I don't think your observation that most will dismiss anything non-armenian is true ... also, I am not sure about what you mean about feelings of killing, murdering, etc etc for beings who are not Armenian.

 

I am an Armenian and I have never had those feelings!!!

 

As always, stereotyping never works. Generalizing from a small sample also rarely works. Keep in mind that anything you see, including this, is basically individual opinion and personal statements.

 

What you have to keep in mind is that Armenia is a christian country isolated in a very hostile environment. I am sure you are aware of the systematic attempts that have always existed to erradicate this small nation. If the Armenians did not have this amazing sense of national and self pride, they would not have survived for so long. It may be difficult to understand for someone who has not been in an environment like that.

 

I have never been in Armenia but I was raised in Iran and we faced similar situation there after the Islamic revolution. If we didn't have our Armenian pride, if we didn't have guts to stand up and say we WILL KEEP OUR SCHOOL open, we will continue to teach armenian to our childered, we would have disappeared

[Twilight Bark]

Any reasonable mode of observation would be inconsistent with your summation, especially regarding this forum.

 

Armenians are one of very few surviving cultures that cherish and celebrate their mixed origin. That has always been the case throughout their history. As for the difficulty in communicating with "traditionalists", it is no different from the problems with the "traditionalist" strain of every culture on the planet. There is nothing particularly useful in singling out the Armenian conservatives.

 

Irrelevant.

 

I suspect not ...

 

These are the "observations" of someone with a big dose of wishful thinking in his/her mind. Apart from an exceedingly small fraction of Armenians, such ideas are thoroughly alien to the Armenian culture. Even in the grossly distorted landscape projected by the Internet forums such talk is rare among the Armenians (or most other cultures). Your "observation" reflects almost entirely what you wish to see, and not how things actually are. Imagining Armenians to be little more than bloodthirsty, self-centered savages is soothing for a Turkish soul perhaps, but it collides rather ungracefully with reality.

 

Selective sampling, and creative filtering of the already distorted results are usually not good bases for a fruitful dialogue.

 

Your "observations" (i.e. wishful thoughts) are especially inapplicable to this forum, which has a remarkably high degree of civility, tolerance and intellectualism. In fact, this forum is a good representation of mainstream Armenians, who usually don't bother posting or even reading internet forums for the simple reason that a typical discussion forum is a nasty place with little or no information or insight. Stick around (for real this time), and observe.

[Twilight Bark]

Actually, the this forum is pretty good in representing the diverse viewpoints that exist in the mainstream.

 

This is very old news to many (most) Armenians. Even the rabid chauvinists are well aware of Armenians' origin. Most mainstream Armenians know that Turks have assimilated massive numbers of Anatolian peoples, and that their ancestry includes quite a few Armenians.

 

As for the Thracian immigrant hypothesis, let go of it already. Hayasa-Azzi province is the origination point. The people of Urartu then added into the ancestry in big numbers after the fall of their kingdom. And then the others added over time. Thracian immigrant(i.e. "Phrygian colonists") stuff is a fine hypothesis (with holes in it), but does not merit the status of history.

[TigrannesIII]

mixture of religions? are you crazy? there is only one.

[Juggernaut]

Wow! talk about pulling things out of ones A$$. I am escpessially interested where you got the bit about 'murdering' and 'abandoment of parents'.

[gen7474]

After having written my original posting, I had the opportunity to read the follow up posts. I am encouraged and admire those of you who have attempted to share and provide explanations of why one may reach the observations I have. To the others who simply support my thoughts and observations, it does very little to be sensitive to your needs when the automated reflex is hostility and instinctual references to "turkish souls" or "a$$" etc. You do a great disservice to those who are trying to be sensitive to understand you and help other Armenians within our local communities. I beleive that you yourself should examine your priorities and true intentions. If Armenia and Armeninans are of pride and importance than you should do whatever you can to help people understand your feelings/emotions/beleif systems rather than attempt to create and perpetuate such barriers.

Nevertheless, to answer some of the questions that have been raised and to form a framework of where I am coming from, I have absolutely no affiliation, heritage, direct or indirect links within that part of the world. I had only known very little about Armenia and Armenians until recently and thus had no biases or presumptions against or for Armenians. In my line of work, I deal with people from every heritage, culture and orientation. It becomes important to be sensitive to a persons past and culture. It just becomes very difficult for me to understand why certain idealogies are common, irrespective of the denial by some of the posts. My statement on "murders, killing etc" were based on the vast number of views in reference to the desire and evokable interest to kill people in one ethnic group (i.e. Kurdish, Turkish etc.) to people who may assimilate to "American" culture or those associating with Armenians. One does not have to look too far to view such opinions, several posts below this one is a post by Hakod titled "..To kill someone just because it is an odar ...". These types of posts are a reality and are more common than I have seen among any other culture. Prejudice exists in all forms. It is a good idea to preserve heritage culture customs etc, however I personally do not beleive that such should come with the belittling of all others, such as Black, Chineese, or non-Armenians in general. There are strong views against such people expressed consistently on these sites. The bottom line is that culture is fine and an integral part of life. In many instances including Armenians it is a direct extension of religion. Many of the customs, traditions and even social interactions are the extension of religion. Hence, one cannot ignore what it is said in your religion and claim that the religion is irrelevant and hail the culture/customs. Afterall it is your faith that will be questioned not your culture. Nevertheless, I have kept a very open mind and over the many weeks of reading, this is the first post I have written. My opinion as an outsider would be that Armenians are no worst nor any better than any other person in this world. One should seek humility and humbleness as they are strong moral character traits that are respected and valued. Whatever has happened in the past (history) is something that should be remembered but in my opinion not shape nor be carried into everyday life, as it is these negative feelings that are transgressed to all around you especially odars. Finally, animosity, and hatred can only fuel stress and disease and not necessarily be conducive to healthy living. I bid you farewell, and support those of you that make our communities (which include Armenians) a better place for all.

[sen_Vahan]

If you say that the statements are against almost every single race, please, show that.

Well, if you decided to find out something about Armenian culture (as I understand) the Internet Forums are not the best place to go. Are you going to the Internet when you want to find a nice girl? Yes or No?

If it was an attempt to learn Armenians' opinions worldwide then I can only say that opinions are really diverse here - with a lot of contradictions! Don't you agree?

Vahan

[sen_Vahan]

"After having written my original posting, I had the opportunity to read the follow up posts. I am encouraged and admire those of you who have attempted to share and provide explanations of why one may reach the observations I have. To the others who simply support my thoughts and observations, it does very little to be sensitive to your needs when the automated reflex is hostility and instinctual references to "turkish souls" or "a$$" etc."

 

Yes, people react differently to the absurd.

 

" You do a great disservice to those who are trying to be sensitive to understand you and help other Armenians within our local communities. I beleive that you yourself should examine your priorities and true intentions. If Armenia and Armeninans are of pride and importance than you should do whatever you can to help people understand yoor feelings/emotions/beleif systems rather than attempt to create and perpetuate such barriers."

 

Your observations in this forum seem strange to me. The approach you have - take 1% of what was said here and propagate to all others - is very non-scientific. If you are not doing any scientific research about the cultures then you probably observing what you would like to.

By the way, thanks for showing us the negative sides of people here, I really appreciate that.

 

" In my line of work, I deal with people from every heritage, culture and orientation. It becomes important to be sensitive to a persons past and culture. It just becomes very difficult for me to understand why certain idealogies are common, irrespective of the denial by some of the posts. My statement on "murders, killing etc" were based on the vast number of views in reference to the desire and evokable interest to kill people in one ethnic group (i.e. Kurdish,Turkish etc.) to people who may assimilate to "American" culture or those associating with Armenians. One does not have to look too far to view such opinions, several posts below this one is a post by Hakod titled "..To kill someone just because it is an odar ..."."

 

Your calm approach is very nice but as I wrote before the opinions here are very diverse, they are full of contradictions. Go to the Russian foRums(if you can find one) and see what many Russians think about the war in Chechnya. But in this case too they do not represent all the Russians.

 

"These types of posts are a reality and are more common than I have seen among any other culture. Prejudice exists in all forms. It is a good idea to preserve heritage culture customs etc, however I personally do not beleive that such should come with the belittling of all others, such as Black, Chineese, or non-Armenians in general. "

 

WELL, IF YOUR task is to find the negative sides of the cultures then I can understand you. It seems to me that is what you are doing. No?

 

" Whatever has happened in the past (history) is something that should be remembered but in my opinion not shape nor be carried into everyday life, as it is these negative feelings that are transgressed to all around you especially odars. Finally, animosity, and hatred can only fuel

stress and disease and not necessarily be conducive to healthy living. I bid you farewell, and support those of you that make our communities (which include Armenians) a better place for all. "

 

I absolutely agree with you in this point. But if you consider Armenians as very agressive beings today then I can only say you should get in touch with Armenians, and that will probably help you understand them better. I can only say that Armenians have the ability to FORGIVE (perhaps because of their religion).

Vahan

[THOTH]

To gen7474: First let me state my bias towards you - I believe that you either post here with a preconcieved agenda of some sort (somewaht negative towards Armenians - in particular you are insulting to a people with a rich, yet tragic filled history as we have - without any demionstrated knowledge of who we are as a people)...or you are just doing your best - but your best is reflective of your being a mediocre (at best) student in the somewhat lacking New York public schools system...so which is it?

 

Is your agenda to somehow dis Armenians by telling us we are nothing special, that we should forget the past as it has no value and by the way you find us mean spirited/bigoted etc toward outsiders? Well you obviously got through school on crib notes and not by actually reading up on your subject matter - if you are at all serious I suggest that you do so before assuming that you know all the answers. Sorry to sound harsh - to cut to the quick as it were - but I cannot but help to see your postings as disengenuous.

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

After having written my original posting, I had the opportunity to read the follow up posts.

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Yes you heard but you obviously did not listen.

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

I am encouraged and admire those of you who have attempted to share and provide explanations of why one may reach the observations I have.

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No not exactly - some/many of us are very honest concerning our faults as a people. Where is the Ara Balozian of the Turks I might ask. Sure there are some critics - but I venture none who cut to his level. That he is part of a tradtion among our people (even if marginalized) is a sign of maturity and confidence IMO. This says an awful lot about us. And trhat we can debate amongst ourselves so freely (some exceptions of course). that we can have a magazine so balanced as AIM (I am mightily impressed by that magazine and what it says about us...) etc

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

To the others who simply support my thoughts and observations, it does very little to be sensitive to your needs when the automated reflex is hostility and instinctual references to "turkish souls" or "a$$" etc. You do a great disservice to those who are trying to be sensitive to understand you and help other Armenians within our local communities. I beleive that you yourself should examine your priorities and true intentions. If Armenia and Armeninans are of pride and importance than you should do whatever you can to help people understand your feelings/emotions/beleif systems rather than attempt to create and perpetuate such barriers.

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Are you certain that you don't live in Glendale?

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

Nevertheless, to answer some of the questions that have been raised and to form a framework of where I am coming from, I have absolutely no affiliation, heritage, direct or indirect links within that part of the world. I had only known very little about Armenia and Armenians until recently and thus had no biases or presumptions against or for Armenians.

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I don't believe you...though no matter...could be true...what was your GPA BTW?

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

In my line of work, I deal with people from every heritage, culture and orientation.

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Every...? Lets see - you live in New York....Your a Trash Man! (sorry, sanitation engineer...union no doubt...probably drive a Mercedes...)

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

It becomes important to be sensitive to a persons past and culture.

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You have not been IMO (not that you have been really blatant - more subtle IMO...and if I'm wrong and its just the school system then I am truly sorry....). Your errors lie in gross omission and unsupportable generalization IMO. (to the point of meaninglessness)

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

It just becomes very difficult for me to understand why certain idealogies are common, irrespective of the denial by some of the posts. My statement on "murders, killing etc" were based on the vast number of views in reference to the desire and evokable interest to kill people in one ethnic group (i.e. Kurdish, Turkish etc.) to people who may assimilate to "American" culture or those associating with Armenians. One does not have to look too far to view such opinions, several posts below this one is a post by Hakod titled "..To kill someone just because it is an odar ...". These types of posts are a reality and are more common than I have seen among any other culture.

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"Vast numbers" - "More prevelant" etc etc - please enlighten us on the caomparative analysis you have done. And did you include Turks in said survey? LOL. I don't know how many times I've heard - "And we didn't commit Genocide against you guys - you were the violent ones - but we are tirring of hearing it from you - so watch out or we will finish the job..." (I think one could do quite an elaborate research project on this one - and in a number of fields of study...)

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

Prejudice exists in all forms. It is a good idea to preserve heritage culture customs etc, however I personally do not beleive that such should come with the belittling of all others, such as Black, Chineese, or non-Armenians in general. There are strong views against such people expressed consistently on these sites.

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There are? - consistently? Really? Please enlighten us concerning the specific findings of your statistical survey....(I'm sorry but these blanket statements just don't cut it - I reject your hypothesis - even if there exist individuals who beleive such (and sure they do) I do not think you can make this generalization (unless you have either an agenda or your statistics class was taught by a nun)

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

The bottom line is that culture is fine and an integral part of life. In many instances including Armenians it is a direct extension of religion. Many of the customs, traditions and even social interactions are the extension of religion. Hence, one cannot ignore what it is said in your religion and claim that the religion is irrelevant and hail the culture/customs. Afterall it is your faith that will be questioned not your culture. Nevertheless, I have kept a very open mind and over the many weeks of reading, this is the first post I have written.

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Sorry you lost me here...LOL - you really must explain this one...what exactly are you trying to say with this one?

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

My opinion as an outsider would be that Armenians are no worst nor any better than any other person in this world. One should seek humility and humbleness as they are strong moral character traits that are respected and valued.

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To be so small as we are and to be humble etc...is to just be ignored completely....and will showing humilty etc garnewr the respect of the Turks etc - I think not. Don't get me wrong - there is nothing inherently wrong with your contentions...they only get a people so far though. I think Armenians as a people do demonstrate these characteristcs anyway- we are by and large a quiet - keep to ourselves sort of people. Sure we have a few hot heads & what not and plenty of cultural pride - but I don't see anything wrong with that - after all we are a small people so we can have pride in our achievements....and we are not "just like" everyone else - there is diversity in the world and we can't just ignore that which make us who we are - and I argue that this is much more than just the religion - though obviously that and the language - as well as the other customs, foods, professions etc makes us who we are. And if we see no value - no reason for being different or special....then we will not be...

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

Whatever has happened in the past (history) is something that should be remembered but in my opinion not shape nor be carried into everyday life, as it is these negative feelings that are transgressed to all around you especially odars.

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Who says these are just negative things. Sure we have had our trgedies and this significantly shapes us and is a part of us - but if you think this is all we are then you have not nearly looked deep enough. And unfourtunatly for us - the Genocide is not "just" history - its active denial makes it current. Again, if you cannot understand this then you are being delibertly unsympathetic and open to our experience and who we are - IMO

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

Finally, animosity, and hatred can only fuel stress and disease and not necessarily be conducive to healthy living.

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agree for the most part. Again you have pegged (the majority of Armenians all wrong - IMO

 

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Originally posted by gen7474:

I bid you farewell, and support those of you that make our communities (which include Armenians) a better place for all.

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Well - thats the vast majority of Armenians (a positive force in the community). There are plenty of peoples more insular and negative towards outsiders then we are - please attend an Armenian festival or gathering sometime...do your research properly....though it seems to me you have already had your mind made up - and have not allowed yourself to be open to suggestions to the contrary...pity that...(for your sake)

[Hyeflyer]

ThothIt is a fact many look for faults in other ethnic communitys before they look in thier own.At least we have a Ara.

[khodja]

Gen7474,

 

One can not seperate the present from the past.

 

Lets us say that you were raised in a family of a grandmother, father and mother.

 

The grandmother suffered from manic-depression exacerbated by the fact that her husband, parents, siblings, nieces and nephews were all brutally murdered.

 

The father, who was studying in Europe at the time of the Genocide, had to leave school at a young age to support his now mentally-ill mother and child sisterThis scion of one of Ottoman Turkey's elite Armenian families had to struggle for the rest of his life to make a living in a strange land.

 

The mother would wake up in the middle of the night at the slightest noise, no doubt engendered by the fact that as an infant she had to run from Ottoman Turkish soldiers hellbent on murdering her. This woman later became friends with the African-American physician who save her life through emergency surgery and one of America's most famous actresses of the Jewish faith.

 

I suggest that you meet and get to know Armenans of all faiths, Protstant, Catholic and Gregorian, as well as, those Armenians who have intermarried with Jews anbd converted to Judaism. You have based your conclusion upon the rantings of a fsmall number of pwersons you have encountered in internet forums. Are you sure that all these persons are Armenian. The most anti-Jewish (aka anti-Semitic) poster on these Armenan forums is not an Armenian but a Sicilian Italian Catholic.

There are also Palestinians who post in these internet forums masquerading as Armenians, as well as Turks and Azeris masquerading as Armenians, trying to make trouble for Armenians.

[Juggernaut]

I am sorry if I seemed insensitive, but I neither have the time nor the patience to answer each and every point of your post, escpessially since as the others have pointed out you dont seem to know what your on about. And you still havnt enlightened us, as to where you got the 'abandonment of parents' part.

[Anshnork]

To me, it is very obvious that gen7474 has very little racial consciousness and is completely inexperienced in dealing with Armenians. Even though she's quick to say that she had no bias against Armenians and that it's wrong to discriminate, she's very comfortable forming negative stereotypical ideas about us and judging us with these misinformed prejudices. Had she truly cared about learning about Armenian culture, she would have tried associating with Armenian people and immersing herself into our culture. It's unbelievable that she would actually think that she can accurately and objectively determine the attitudes and beliefs of and entire CULTURE simply by skimming a few internet postings! Furthermore, she obviously didn't "study" many of the postings in this forum as she claims. I personally do not see a prevailing conservative attitude, but see many more progressive, open-minded individuals. She must be basing her research solely on the postings of Arthur.

 

Moreover, even though gen7474 is quick to label Armenians as uncivilized, she fails to see that the same problems she noted in Armenian culture exist in the American mainstream culture as well. Does she honestly believe that racism is limited to the armenian community? She ignores the fact that racism occurs in other Christian societies, and chooses to single us out and make us look like hypocritical heathens. This is not to justify the racism and other problems that exist in Armenian society, but it is unfair to portray us as the "mal-functioning" culture.

[Twilight Bark]

Translation: I love people that agree with me. Even more so when they try to provide justification for my thoughts.

Translation: I hate to be contradicted. I am a very logical person, and that means that whoever disagrees with my assertions is "instinctual" and irrational.

 

A side note from the translator: Lumping "Turkish soul" and "a$$" together into one category is not appreciated in this enlightened forum. When I say "Turkish soul" I mean it in a neutral, dispassionate sense, and not as some sort of an insult. You have been informed.

That is exactly each reply to your post tried to do, including the that has "a$$" in it (crude, but not without descriptive merit). You simply brush aside what you do not want to see.

Excuse us if we do not take your word at face value. Your post indeed reflects a deep-rooted bias. Pseudo-scholarly sentences are nowhere near enough to cover it. As for the reasons for the bias, one can only speculate.

What are you talking about? I have not seen any such posts in this forum. As for other forums, I have seen similarly outrageous posts by hot-headed Armenians and I tried to talk some sense into them to no avail. There are some very legitimate reasons for the rage that you encounter. The way they are digested into a world view and expressed often leaves a lot to be desired. First of all try to understand why these people are so enraged and frustrated. Then tell us your opinion on how these frustrations can be channelled for the betterment of humanity and the world. You can be sure that we would all be interested. However, I have a suspicion that doing such a thing was not your intention.

Congratulations on your profound discovery that the vast majority of internet sites are the garbage bins of culture. And generalizing from them is done either by the extremely naive or the garden-variety ill-intentioned. Which category do you fall in?

Religion is largely irrelevant in the sense that the Armenian brand of Christianity is quite different from the Western European tradition or even the Orthodox one. Each religious tradition cast Christianity into the pre-Christian cultural characteristics of the population involved. Thus you have the Europeans distorting the teachings of Jesus into a unqualified monstrosity for a very long time, Americans turning it into just another business that trades in souls, and Armenians practicing it with their traditional pacific and non-proselytizing fashion. Given enough time after conversion, the style of the religion reflects the culture more than the other way around. That is also why I categorically reject the notion that Armenians bear even a particle of responsibility for the barbarisms of their European (including North American) "co-religionists".

No, it is rather obvious that you haven't.

An information-free statement.

[henry]

Interesting considering Armenians by themselves are very much a mixture of a number of different races, religions and creeds.

 

HUH? - we have one race (doesn't matter where we were born) we are all Armenians. Religion - Christian.

Conclusion: you're not making sense.

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seems extremely difficult to communicate with such Armenian traditionalists as it always resorts to cultural or other biases.

 

HUH - what traditionalists?

 

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Understanding that Armenia was the first country to adopt Christianity, does it seem odd that such behaviours are against the very teachings of the said religion.

 

HUH? what behavior (u mean not being perfect), show me one race that's perfect.

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I am simply interested in learning about other cultures for research purposes, and true it may be unfair to make any conclusions about a community based on their own online communities, but difficult to ignore considering the sheer anger, hostility and rage with feelings of killing, murdering, abandonment of parents, and the obvious disregard for other human beings who are not Armenian that are themes one sees over and over again.

 

WOW - you have strange way of learning. Interesting, that you have come to this opinion, without research.

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Unfortunate, considering these are not the values taught by your religion and suppose to be upheld by normal civilized people and proud civilizations.

 

LOL - What are you talking about?

 

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It may be that such a random sampling of opinions are from young, uneducated persons who are closed minded and have not yet had the opportunity to braoden their minds to their own opinions. Surely, many of the thoughts run common and seem to based on some deep rooted anger.

 

HUH? ohh one more thing it's not persons but its individuals.

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I am simply an outsider loooking in. My thoughts are simply an observation and are not intended to be malefocent.

 

Yeah, you have thoughts that needs more learning to do and stop generalizing.

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If I detract such opinions from the information on these Armenian online communities, what about all the other odars (strangers). If you are proud of your culture/heritage it should be good enough to show and not be the basis of unruly ignorance. I am interested in seeing if any of the responses to my opinions will have thought proviking dialogue or the very support of my observations.

 

Here's an opinion: Before you say something, do your homework first because people could think ur just another person who talks too much with Loud voice (FYI: usually they'll point and laugh).