THOTH Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 Kazza, I don't see this Christianity Exposed poster to be serious at all. In fact, I don't think this person has ever been in any type of relationship - unless of course we count the one he has with his hand. I can make plenty of arguments for the benefits & joys of casual sex - and in fact (except for the issues of AIDs & STDs in general) I would say there should be much more of it. People are too uptight in my opinion - and much of this is becuase they don't have the good release and fun play that good sex offers. I really think that many of the moral strictures and other forces that cause people to be so tight and denying of sex and their sexuality are just plain wrong and do much more harm then good. There are so many people with problems because they cannot express themselves sexually (with/to the opposite sex in general) and because they are not relaxed enough to enjoy their sexual selves and are all pent up with false inhibitions etc(I could go on and on about this...but I think you get the idea). On the other hand I am a big proponent of serious relationships and marraige and all of that stuff and this is really what I actually know more from my experience. Yea, nice sex is one thing, in and of itself (and it is good), but it is at best a sideshow compared to a real relationship and marraige (of which the sex should be of course a major component). Of course there is so much more to building a relationship with someone then just the sex - and our Christianity exposed commentator has basically missed all these points. Love of another (giving oneself, caring, comprimise, growth etc), the union of two people - goals, interests, likes/dislikes, home, lives (at least for a time and hopefully much longer...through stages of life...and to be together...till the end of life) are beautiful things that define us for our lives - that give our lives true joy and meaning. And of course, as Mike correctly points out, there is the issue of children - and through them people/couples are able to make so much more out of just themselves. The joy (challenges)and signifigance of bringing children into the world and raising them is just to me, beyond words. And it really speaks to all of the factors of why the joining of two people as a couple is so special - sacrifice, cooperation and love. Of course unwanted children in homes with non-loving or otherwise troubled relationships/people is a whole 'nother matter...(I think this may explain some of chritianity exposed problems dealing with things realistically).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 An old joke comes to mind after reading ChristianityExposed.com message, that “Love is a creation of the Communists, because they don’t have money to pay for it”. If the relationships between men and women are reduced to merely satisfying sexual desires or reproduction (kids) , than humans are not much different from animals.After all a man can always resort to the services of a prostitute, and a woman to a gigolo.With respect to the kids, one can always adopt one.The key is this special physical attraction that can grow to something more than sex, kids, etc. Relationships without intellectual and emotional compatibility are dead born. P.S. I would never go to bed with a lady who is "oversized" or looks like Cruella DeVille.I hope most of the people here are aesthetic! Sorry if anybody is offended. [ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: gamavor ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilafhead Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 quote:Originally posted by gamavor:I would never go to bed with a lady who is "oversized" or looks like Cruella DeVille.Never say "never". Even Cruella DeVille looks good sometimes... [ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: Aghmug ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThornyRose Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 Pappy, most people seem to be practicing the EXACT opposite of what you are talking about... LOLOLOL!Myself, I find this which ChristianityExposed.com (get yourself something shorter, will ya???) says to be bewildering in a way... Saying that I don't practice it per se is an understatement - I don't at all! Still...I think there is always a quest to overcome out limitations and downplay some of the "silliness" we practice - and this is partially it... But it condemns a group for being who they are - human beings "programmed" in a certain way... While we have certain instincts given to us by "Mother Nature," this contradicts that. Human beings are social, yes, but not were not intended to be "bored" enough to f*ck with everyone... I do believe myself that, at the end of the day, women are oriented to choose a "best mate" instead of giving birth to offspring of who knows which traits... Picked this one up from the corner, that one up from the end of the street, etc.,... Nope. I do think the female partner of any pair is into commitment... I think this is the natural thing, not "artificial inhibitions"... Formal marriage, I think, is a way to safeguard that in societies where corruption is existent... By that, I don't mean **** but other factors... Stress, gain (translating into stress), responsibilities (also translating into stress), etc...Now, don't get me wrong... Just because I talk about being natural and apes happen to live in clans of alpha-males and several females, we are not going to... Myself, I wouldn't change a boyfriend a day like I change my underwear, so this is not an issue for me...However, I sort of find joy in what C-E.com says, because it reminds me of what I felt when I realized how ridiculous it is for human beings to eat meat, laying off all that political-medical bull-crap we are fed, yet realizing that, whether conditioned to eat it or our bodies are forever in yearning of something just strong enough to stock up some nutrients before facing the next day, we like meat and we are happy. Why ruin it, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 I am not saying this is all women - or even most or what not - and sure it is not perhaps the norm. I was initially very suprised by the findings of the study...however it does make a certain amount of sense...you can't ignore that it occurs (and understand why)...And now of course - in most Western nations - virginity before marriage is no longer the issue it used to be...I've never had the "deflowering" experience myself (except my own...many moons ago! LOL)...most all the women I've ever been with in my life (not legions certainly) were at least as "experienced" as I...(of course that did change after a point...and being happily married and well satisfied now I know longer am collecting data on such...at least not first hand). quote:Originally posted by Aghmug: ??? I think you grossly underestimate the love and devotion of women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilafhead Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 I still don't understand how marriage is a mechanism that allows women to sleep around. That's the part I don't get. If anything, in more traditional societies, the man thinks he owns the woman after marriage and that she should stay home, cook and take care of the kids while he fools around. No? Also, although I have no science to back this up, my guess is that when a woman does cheat it's partially or totally the husband's fault. Whereas men can be pigs and cheat on a woman who's done nothing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilafhead Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 quote:Originally posted by gamavor:No Aghmug, I have never been that much drunk.... Next time I get to Houston (I have a client there), I'll show you some real drinking! And none of this wine nonsense either. Strictly beer, my brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 Beer on our table? I think you should ask MJ for permission! P.S. Be honest Aghmug. Tell me that this "client" thing is only in case your wife sneaks in the Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 quote:Originally posted by Aghmug:I still don't understand how marriage is a mechanism that allows women to sleep around. That's the part I don't get. If anything, in more traditional societies, the man thinks he owns the woman after marriage and that she should stay home, cook and take care of the kids while he fools around. No?Why don't you get it, Mike. That's exactly when she is given the opportunity to sleep around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilafhead Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 No wonder you single guys talk about the old country so much! Traditional countries here I come!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 Aghmug, I am going to Europe in November to escape a little from the suffocating traditionalism that I am soaked in. Would you like to join? I'm sure you have "clients" in Europe too. Take care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilafhead Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 Bathing is outdated. Let's face it, cleaning ones body of dirt and bacteria is unnatural, and barbaric. A bath is a stupid sacrifice. If you love someone, you should encourage that he/she be free to smell and look however he/she wants. Only weak people still "take a shower." What is bathing? A desire to get clean, plain and simple, a feeling of a need to wash away the dirt. Showers and tubs should be ONLY places to have sex and with no soap involved. Don't you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 Thorny just a quick point - Do you understand that the institution/act of marriage in part is a mechanism that "allows" or formalizes women's ability to fool around with multiple partners...etc. In traditional societies women must be virgins before/for marriage...but afterword of course it is no issue! Studies have been done of working class children & parantage with findings that some great percent (forgot how much - but astonishingly high) were not fathered by their fathers (guy maried to the mother) but by others. The man a woman might choose for a life partner, to provide high/decent standard of living and help care for children etc may not in fact be the ideal love interest (for exiting times in the sack) or genetic pool provider for the offspring...etc This after marriage cheating thing is almost formalized in many societies (by the very nature of the virginity requirement to marry) etc...such a strange and twisted around world we live in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 Originally posted by Aghmug:[QB] Never say "never". Even Cruella DeVille looks good sometimes... No Aghmug, I have never been that much drunk.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilafhead Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 quote:Originally posted by THOTH:Do you understand that the institution/act of marriage in part is a mechanism that "allows" or formalizes women's ability to fool around with multiple partners...etc. In traditional societies women must be virgins before/for marriage...but afterword of course it is no issue! ??? I think you grossly underestimate the love and devotion of women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazza Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 Lots to say, lots to say....back in a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThornyRose Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 quote:Originally posted by THOTH:Thorny just a quick point - Do you understand that the institution/act of marriage in part is a mechanism that "allows" or formalizes women's ability to fool around with multiple partners...etc. In traditional societies women must be virgins before/for marriage...but afterword of course it is no issue! Studies have been done of working class children & parantage with findings that some great percent (forgot how much - but astonishingly high) were not fathered by their fathers (guy maried to the mother) but by others. The man a woman might choose for a life partner, to provide high/decent standard of living and help care for children etc may not in fact be the ideal love interest (for exiting times in the sack) or genetic pool provider for the offspring...etc This after marriage cheating thing is almost formalized in many societies (by the very nature of the virginity requirement to marry) etc...such a strange and twisted around world we live in...Whatever, Pappy...Fact is, I don’t see any point in marriage unless one plans to have kids... But I also made friends with lotsa people my age at work who had elder brothers and sisters, some of them doing post-graduate stuff abroad, who thought EXACTLY the same way but happened to succumb to their families’ whims... Family’s pooches, that’s what I call them... (Hope I don’t ever end up like that! Would be the first major joke of the century!)I guess it has to be different in countries where the population is mostly Muslim... Take a look at Arab countries and Iran, and you see that the mere suspicion of infidelity gives the man enough right to kill his wife... Alas, we have cases like that here, too, albeit much fewer in number, less in frequency, etc. (And they say these honour killings have nothing to do with Islam – geez, what, so many coincidences!)“Christian countries” are different, of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazza Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 Thorny, I kinda agree with you. The greek people that I hang about with(I don't really hang around with a lot becasue we have different outlokks on life..) are all into marriage and engagement, even if they are in universities and getting good degrees. It's like engagement is their sole purpose, even boys and girls alike. I think that is kind of a bit sad. Muslim and Christian alike, but I think it might be a bit of a middle eastern thing. It's like when I see their families there all like to me.. WHHHATT???!@ Youre STILL single? Where is your boyfriend/husband? I hear your going away, in your forum. We WILL miss you. I hope you have a good time, but I hope you find time to post to us occassioanlly too although you might be busy with other things. (I think you will!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThornyRose Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 quote:Originally posted by Kazza:I hope you find time to post to us occassioanlly too although you might be busy with other things. (I think you will!)You betcha I will be busy... Though, I admit, "cold turkey" on the internet always brings about the worst of withdrawal symptoms... ))): I do hope, however, that I will be kept busy busy busy so as to not find time or the need to stop by an internet café.You other folks out there - I will return on the 28th at the latest... Leaving tomorrow afternoon. Tomorrow this time around, Thorny will have been on the road for three hours and a half... Yup.I do look forward to the possibility of sleeping in the afternoons, before dinner... Even if just a couple of times... LOL! MMMM, I love sleep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 What are you doing there gamavor? Is it a sort of new dancing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 mmm.... you are close, but the Forum etiquette will be grossly violated if I go to some details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilafhead Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 quote:Originally posted by gamavor:P.S. Be honest Aghmug. Tell me that this "client" thing is only in case your wife sneaks in the Forum. You must single, otherwise you'd know that sometimes one woman is two too many! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 Correct! I'm happily single! My offer for a trip to Europe is still valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 Originally posted by Aghmug:[QB]I still don't understand how marriage is a mechanism that allows women to sleep around. That's the part I don't get. If anything, in more traditional societies, the man thinks he owns the woman after marriage and that she should stay home, cook and take care of the kids while he fools around. No? I have quasi-scientific explanation to your question, although it might be insufficient.The essential term here is security. Once she/he has the filling that … aha..’he is main , I’ve got him’ then she/he starts looking around for somebody else. Usually men are victims of this kind of instincts, since by nature they are the hunters. Of course, it all depends of the partners. If they are mature and experienced enough these kind of silly games are easily recognizable and overruled. Cultural and social environment as well as self-confidence and lifestyle stereotypes also play a major role in the relationship. As I have said before, if they are not compatible, soon or later either one of them would look like a “noble deer.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elovna Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 Just a comment to all of you. I live in a not so traditional society, was never married, mother of 2 kids. In the past few years I had the opportunity to experience the Armenian culture as well as the American one from closer distance. I was amazed to discover what's underneath all that tradition at least as far as love, sex and relationships are concerned. My conclusion is that however I am the one with the reputation of being so 'free' and untraditional, 'they' actually deserve the medaille for it. To escape from tradition you don't need to go all the way to Europe.... Gamavor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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