Armenian Girls

[THOTH]

Not this again - its Artur - the holier then though male Armenian "slut" throwing stones again - like a good Christian.

 

What is worse - people - adults (male or female) who enjoy sex and don't mind saying so - or hypocrites (certain Armenian men recently in the West - righteous sounding yet loose morally themselves) who preach to others what they themselves cannot practice? Who set this standard for women claiming that they are holding them on a pedestal - when in fact they clearly hold women in low esteme and are fearful of women as equals with the rights that any human should possess. No Mr. Armenian Taliban want-to-be...you should be embarrased by your slavery era attitudes and your poor understanding and over-generalizing of Western ways.

[khodja]

BRAVO Winston, I could not have said it better myself. Artur, an Armenian Taliban wannabe!!!!!!

[Harut]

oh, you bet they do.

 

Artur, norits ankap-ankap baner es asum. karogha du kusanotsum es metsatsel?

[Harut]

so, if i like having fun with prostitutes then i have to marry one?

[Arturian]

Guys, i can't believe at your ages men can act like clowns. Ok,,,, Step by step.

 

1. What do you know about Talibans? And what do you know about Armenian culture? My attitudes are based on Armenian culture, not Talibans' one, because I don't even know them. I was raised like this. I've known talibans by their name. Moreover, I disagree with their attitudes! They are muslim extrimists... you should think before you talk. Example for you if you still don't get: if an armenian lives in Afghanistan and excepts the Aghani (i.e. Muslim) culture and mentality he will be as disgraceful as you are, because it is not ours, so to support theirs while turning their back for our ways is disgraceful for a person who calls himself an Armenian.

 

2. Look at you before calling me a taliban wannabe. You have nothing Armenian in you as 99% of so called Armenians on this forum. At least keep your mouth shut when we an Armenian person talks about his culture otherwise you are disgrace of your nation. Thoth, what the hell do you know about Armenia? You mother is an Armenian as far as I am aware of... you've lived all your life in the US and raised by american man... So, what is it then? Proud Armenian who disagrees with Armenian culture but still calls himself an Armenian? Man, at least try to respect ... i know what is mentality and it difficult to thing to be changed ... but at least respect you mother's forefathers' lifestyle otherwise you act like a turk!

 

3. To that person who wonders what happened to Armenian girls: HOW do you expect in american society so called armenian girls to be moral? Ask yourself: how do you raise you girls? They are total reflection of american mentality ... and what do you expect then? of course she will be a slut, and she will use the F* word and she will sleep aroung like a latest prostitute. Raise your daughthers properly, so in future there wouldn't be a case when a person comes to the forum and asks: "what happened to our girls... " My answer: nothing happened to Armenian girls.

 

3. Hagarag ... hell with them ... prostitute is a prostitue ... they don't have a nationality ... disgrace upon thei fathers ... who's daughters go to UAE to earn money!!! I can tell to these sluts to go an spit to the faces of their brothers as they are disgrace. God knows, there weren't that many prostitutes 20 years ago ... in Armenia you could count them on fingures ... now it is changing. GOD forbids, but If I could only have a right... I would execute all of them to clean my nation of such disgrace! That's my word!

Also ... why on earth did you jump on me and started this issue? What did you thoth start this endless discussion again? What did I say? I told person that Armenian girls don't use the word F ... is that disgrace if a girl clean? What's the matter with you? You are both lost ... hell knows where ... but your reaction is weird!

 

4. I am not here to waste my time ... so my dear yankees, I will leave you with this topic as I am flying to Moscow in 4 hours... what I am asking is only to respect, respect what your forefathers have for God's sake died for ... to keep our culture our christian values and our pride!

 

God bless you all!

 

[ May 30, 2002, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

[Harut]

Artur, you are missing something. it is one thing to be Armenian and totally another not to follow any traditional Armenian norms.

 

you can't say to someone if she is not follow traditional Armenian norms than she is not Armenian. it's radiculous for me. and i think hurtful for Armenians born in America.

 

another thing, i used to be on your side a while ago advocating that the society you were born and raised was like that (traditional Armenian) and that is wrong to judge harshly someone who was taugh that way.

but the same thing applies to them too. people here were born in American society, and that is what they take as the norm.(i don't meat to say that using f word is the norm, but it is not as fatal for them as for you).

 

now, maybe i'm wrong about why they argue with you. maybe they have different issues. i'm not sure. but i see at least those mentioned above that are argueable.

 

and btw, a question for you.

what do you call a girl living in Armenia, speaking Armenian only, who has been living only in Armenia for all of her life, but who also has a dirty mouth?

[Accelerated]

The actions and beliefs of a few idiotic Armenian men and financial difficulties of a few young women, does not mean ALL young Armenian women should let go their pride.

[THOTH]

OK - Armenian whore-man. Let me just say that I find you very amusing. Do you ever look into the mirror other then to preen yourself?

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARTURian:

Guys, i can't believe at your ages men can act like clowns. Ok,,,, Step by step.

 

1. What do you know about Talibans? And what do you know about Armenian culture? My attitudes are based on Armenian culture, not Talibans' one, because I don't even know them. I was raised like this. I've known talibans by their name. Moreover, I disagree with their attitudes! They are muslim extrimists... you should think before you talk. Example for you if you still don't get: if an armenian lives in Afghanistan and excepts the Aghani (i.e. Muslim) culture and mentality he will be as disgraceful as you are, because it is not ours, so to support theirs while turning their back for our ways is disgraceful for a person who calls himself an Armenian.

---

Your attitudes speak for themselves. Its funny though that you (have the gaul to) call Taliban extremist. By the same token you are extremist to me - in the very same way of Taliban - (and yet you cannot seem to see this). As for myself - I am the result of my upbringing and environment. I cannot say how lucky I feel to have had the parents that I did and to be blessed with the prosperity and openess of the society and environment in which I was raised. Your view that one (of Armenian heritage) who accepts and lives (basically) according to the culture of the nation in which they live - that this is somehow disgraceful - not only goes against Armenian (Diaspora and otherwise/prior) hitorical record/norm - but is so utterly unrealistic to be laughable. I can just see your version of Diaspora Armenians - some kind of new Amish people - stuck in a past century. You have no comprehension of time - you are stuck in an unchanging mentality...and this my friend is very unArmenian (unless you accept that you are some Soviet form - and this is your norm - unchanging & such - but this is not Armenian in the larger sense - we are a worldly & progressive people - you have it all wrong)

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARTURian:

2. Look at you before calling me a taliban wannabe. You have nothing Armenian in you as 99% of so called Armenians on this forum. At least keep your mouth shut when we an Armenian person talks about his culture otherwise you are disgrace of your nation. Thoth, what the hell do you know about Armenia? You mother is an Armenian as far as I am aware of... you've lived all your life in the US and raised by american man... So, what is it then? Proud Armenian who disagrees with Armenian culture but still calls himself an Armenian? Man, at least try to respect ... i know what is mentality and it difficult to thing to be changed ... but at least respect you mother's forefathers' lifestyle otherwise you act like a turk!

---

Any who calim that 99% of folks on a "Hye" forum have no Armenian in them is clearly off the mark and trhe one in the minority. Your version of Armenian is not the only one my boy. And FYI - my mothers forefathers - on her mothers side were Ottoman Armenian from Istanbul/Constantinople - they were very cultured (and liberal) - they knew fine things - from Europe & such - my Grandmother spoke 7 languages fluently - was tutored by Gomidas, sang in his choir...her mother rode horses, ran businesses, schools (for girls as well as boys) and smoked a pipe! Sure - my grandfather was from a poor family of Anatolian farmers - (and I "farm" a bit myself in a sense - and certainy still own many acres of prime farmland (that I rent out)...but certainly I don't need to aspire to be a farmer (as noble a proffesion I believe it to be). No - like nearly all other Armenians in the Diaspora - I want to succeed in the culture that I am (find myself) in. I want the best for my children - the safest environment - the best education - lucrative careers - etc. This is called being human - and is consistent with the Armenian experience in the Diaspora. And why do you think hundreds of thousands leave Armenian every year? To spread Armenian culture to the world? No - idiot - it is because they want the best life that they can have for themselves and their children. You seem to miss this point entirely. Until you grow up a bit and understand these things your commentaries will be menaingless and useless. And don't think to preach to me *******.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARTURian:

3. To that person who wonders what happened to Armenian girls: HOW do you expect in american society so called armenian girls to be moral? Ask yourself: how do you raise you girls? They are total reflection of american mentality ... and what do you expect then? of course she will be a slut, and she will use the F* word and she will sleep aroung like a latest prostitute. Raise your daughthers properly, so in future there wouldn't be a case when a person comes to the forum and asks: "what happened to our girls... " My answer: nothing happened to Armenian girls.

---

Look - saying this does not please me or make me happy - but I gather that there are many many more Armenian prostitutes from Armenian then prostitutes of Armenian nationality in the Diaspora - both by numbers & percentage. Does this mean I condemn the lifestyle in Armenian or such - no! You must understand the socio-economic conditions of why this is true. Likewise you must understand the social environment here in the States and elsewhere outside of Armenia. And you don't. Unless you claim that the picture of you with your slut Armenian girlfriend K - something (forgot her name) leaning against the car qualifies you of course...And let me say - there is a big difference between using certain language and acting certain ways than actually being a prostitute. Now - we obviously have different opinions about what may constitute being a "slut" - and I',m not sure I actually have a definition - but just a women having sex with whom she pleases etc does not constitute it in my book. But since you are one yourself - perhaps I can defer the decision to you. If you accept that you are one - and agree on the definition - then perhaps I can agree to your use of the term. And I believe you are mistaken about the morality of American girls. The vast majorioty are far more moral then you. You watch too much Television I think - and believe that it is real.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARTURian:

3. Hagarag ... hell with them ... prostitute is a prostitue ... they don't have a nationality ... disgrace upon thei fathers ... who's daughters go to UAE to earn money!!! I can tell to these sluts to go an spit to the faces of their brothers as they are disgrace. God knows, there weren't that many prostitutes 20 years ago ... in Armenia you could count them on fingures ... now it is changing. GOD forbids, but If I could only have a right... I would execute all of them to clean my nation of such disgrace! That's my word!

Also ... why on earth did you jump on me and started this issue? What did you thoth start this endless discussion again? What did I say? I told person that Armenian girls don't use the word F ... is that disgrace if a girl clean? What's the matter with you? You are both lost ... hell knows where ... but your reaction is weird!

---

Yes - go and kill prostitutes - that wil sure help your nation and these poor girls and their families. And it will show you as the good Christian that you are...

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARTURian:

4. I am not here to waste my time ... so my dear yankees, I will leave you with this topic as I am flying to Moscow in 4 hours... what I am asking is only to respect, respect what your forefathers have for God's sake died for ... to keep our culture our christian values and our pride!

 

God bless you all!

---

I would wish for your plane to crash - but I have nothing against your innocent fellow passengers. Yes - my forfathers died alright - killed by the Turks and otherwise. They died because of people like you! People who wished to impose their draconian solutions on peaceful people who just wanted to live their lives their way and be left alone.

 

[ May 30, 2002, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

[Accelerated]

THOTH,

 

I think was has happened is that Artur comes from a relativelly affluant Armenian family, and he can uphold those ideals, ideals that I agree with. The problem is, that the majority of Armenians in Armenia barely make ends meet, and conforming to these ideals is not their first priority. Though, this should not be used as an excuse to not aspire for them.

 

While you, living outside Armenia have taken up the ideals of your host country, which I believe to be wrong. Sure, you'll have to live by their laws and customs, but you should still aspire to our ideals and hence agree with Artur, however 'unrealistic' and 'old fashioned' he may sound.

[Azat]

I guess in the traditional Armenian family a man is suppose to go out with whors("Kaddz") as I believe I did see a picture of Artur with his.

 

Artur, is your whore one of them American Sluts that you hate so much? Does she use the "F" word". I just want to know what kind of women a GOD believing man like you hangs around with?

[THOTH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Accelerated:

THOTH,

 

I think was has happened is that Artur comes from a relativelly affluant Armenian family, and he can uphold those ideals, ideals that I agree with. The problem is, that the majority of Armenians in Armenia barely make ends meet, and conforming to these ideals is not their first priority. Though, this should not be used as an excuse to not aspire for them.

---

I fail to see any "ideal" worth aspiring to in his posts. Perhaps if I was as insecure in my "maleness" as Artur so obviously is I would wish that I still lived in a culture that repressed women so that I could feel more important and in control and such. Perhaps this is an ideal for a weak male like Artur (and youself?). And if he is from a wealthy family it only makes his assertions more absurd. But we can see through his hypocrisy on many levels.

 

Look - I see nothing wrong with traditional relationships as practiced by rural people (in Armenia and elsewhere) - if this is what all parties wish. However the days of restricting and forcing women into certain roles and such should be seen for what it is - and by this I mean it is certainly not any kind of ideal. And Armenian culture is wonderful...I can't wait to see how we evolve it...we are capable of such beautiful things...

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Accelerated:

While you, living outside Armenia have taken up the ideals of your host country, which I believe to be wrong.

---

First - I was brought up by parents who were born in America and did not live among Armenians. My father was not Armenian. My mother had experienced severe disrimination and racial hatred etc and felt that she did not want her children to undergo such things as she went through. Thus I was raised (essentially) American. Of course, I was and am not entirely ignorant of things Armenian. Now - how you can say I am living my life wrong in any way is beyond me. First - I will live my life as I choose - and who are you ever to judge me? (as I do not wrong anyone). Secondly - if you cannot understand that one must live in the present - and must do what is best to provide for ones family in the environment in which they find themselves - then I really don't know what to say. Third - most everyone thinks of me as being Armenian - I am always explaining who Armenians are, and aspects of our history, culture (incl foods, arts etc) - etc etc - even when I have visited Turkey! I am very proud to be Armenian - and believe me everyone I meet knows this...LOL. So again - who are you to judge me? And who are you to define what is right or wrong (for being an Armenian or otherwise)? And how are you to know what my "ideals" are? I don't often speak of such fairy tale things as "ideals" any way - I am more concerned with practical things...I mean communisim has always bee (perhaps) a great "ideal" - but what does that have to do with reality?

 

And as an aside - my family (mothers side) was never from the nation known as Armenian (in the Caucuses) - we were Ottoman/Anatolian Armenians (for 500 years or so - no?)...and before that perhaps we were Byzantine Armenians...and likely other types of (Anatolian) Armenians...perhaps at some point some of my forefathers came from the Caucuses - who is to know? My point is - is that my family may have been far removed from Caucasian Armenian culture for a very long time (as a great many Armenians)...at what point do you not consider us as "true" Armenians?

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Accelerated:

Sure, you'll have to live by their laws and customs, but you should still aspire to our ideals and hence agree with Artur, however 'unrealistic' and 'old fashioned' he may sound.

---

Please list for me these "ideals" - I fail to see any ideals. I see a lot of him running at the mouth when in fact he seems to understand very little. And I find this statement of yours - claiming that others should aspire to your "ideals" to be quite presumptious. You also fall into the age old trap of settings standards for others that you yourself cannot meet. Is hypocrisy one of these ideals we should all aspire to?

[Accelerated]

What do you mean by 'weak male'? Insecure in ones life?

 

The Armenian culture does not repress women, but highlights their importance to this nation.

 

You can't improve on perfection

 

Thus lies the heart of the problem, you ARE an American.

 

Well, it would be for you pretty difficult to understand then, since I also assume you neither speak Armenian, nor have ever been to Armenia or have any Armenian friends. Maybe some people like urself who have some sort of 'connection', but were 'essentially raised an American'

 

Firstly, I am suggesting, not judging. Secondly, since I have found out that you are 'essentially' an American, I have nothing further to suggest to you.

 

What you say to you fellow Americans is of no consequence. I also know a great deal about Turkish and Russian culture, history, cuisine etc. Does that make me a Turk or a Russian?

 

I will answer this when I get into phylosophy . Starting soon, with an introductory book on all the major phylosophers, beliefs etc.

 

For me personally, those that stop practicing our culture (ie. language, religion, community etc.) Hence I believe, one could be ethnically anything, but if they live 'our' way, then they are Armenian. Mind you, this would be impossible unless they lived in Armenia for an extended number of years. I think the same applies anywhere, including America. I dont think the average American would consider a newly arrived, practicing Muslim, that doesnt speak English but has the citizenship, an American.

 

No sex before marriage

Faith (I guess the above should be included in this)

Various standards of behaviour

etc.

 

I didnt say we MUST MEET THE IDEALS. BUT WE MUST ASPIRE TO THEM TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITIES! And if your looking for hypocrites, look at your government.....

[Sip]

Whazzzup Jug! Nice to see you around again

 

I just find it really amazing when people try to sugar coat things like this! Why not say it like it is? I think I had this argument with our dear Arthur before the second time he left ... or maybe it was around the third time he left ... I'm not sure! He was also saying something similar ... so let me get this straight. You are saying that since women are really important to the nation, they should do what men tell them to do?

[Accelerated]

I never said that men should tell women what to do, but there simply must be mutual respect.

 

Besides, I think we all know who is usually 'boss' in a typical Armenian family .

[koko]

Besides, I think we all know who is usually 'boss' in a typical Armenian family .[/QB]

 

the women!!!!!!!?

[dragon]

The woman is the active boss and the man is the one who puts the rules to break them after

[Sip]

 

I don't know too much about the "typical" Armenian family but I am fairly sure that the women in the "traditional" families were treated more like pets and objects than humans ... of course I could be wrong but that's the impression I have gotten by what I have seen/read and the behaviors of the "traditionalists"

 

Of course whenever they (the "traditionalists") say anything they always formulate things like "... oh the woman is the most beautiful thing that must be cherished like a precious gem and must be valued as the most important thing to our nation and blah blah blah ..." but what it comes down to is that at the end, what they really want to say is:

 

"Hey woman, get in the kitchen and make me some pie!" (any South Park fans here? )

[Accelerated]

I dont think I have ever seen a pet run a household, and have (human) children.

 

In fact I think Armenian women have it pretty sweet, unlike the men who have to work their a$$es off for the rest of their lives to put food on the table and insure the best possible future for the children. The women can CHOOSE either to work or stay at home and look after the household. Of course sometimes they must work (when family in financial difficulties) or must stay at home (newborn baby), but at other times they can do either, unlike in a Western society where the female partner MUST also have carreer, so that they are 'independent', independent of what? their own family and children?

[Sip]

[koko]

We're the best!

[Bakersfieldian]

This topic is an excellent example of what goes wrong (or at least common and we can't deny that) whenever Armenians get into a discussion.

 

It started out with my mentioning a bad date I had with an Armenian girl in the Valley.

 

From there, it has degenerated into the usual "pig headed" insults from men and "everything is man's fault" from women.

 

Just an observation.

[MosJan]

smile.gif

[MosJan]

it has become a new stile of living in LA to get a servant – helper – lady – some one to help you with your kids and to Klein your house .

this is a new think in LA

 

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

so the wife is working - makes $2.000 a month  in home baby sitter will cost you 700-1000 a months – house keeper will cost $50 day you need to have some one to Klein at list every other day then your wife can do some staff after work or you can help her to. So 1500 to 2000 is not even enough 

 

but the worst part is – your kids are getting to be rased by some one other then you or your wife .

so just to be what some call a free and independent – you are losing it –

 

understand some of us Can Not make enough to support our families single handed – but some of us can, I rather see my wife razing my kids then working - I would rather deliver pizza at nights and Klein dishes at McDonalds then have my wife work !!!.

 

Movses

 

[ June 26, 2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: MosJan ]

[MosJan]

hamamit em sakayn im garaparn iyspisin e -> iysor azgin Mayrer en petq !!! yev voch te Azat ankax kanayq.

 

Hye Mayrer@ ov Mesrop Mashtots e Tsnel - Hye Mayr@ vor Paruyr Sevak yev Silva Kaputikyan e tsnel, IRAVUNQ chuni dzulvelu yev hrapurvelu datarkamit Amerikyan garaparneri yev sovorutyuneri het.

 

iysor mez Hayer en petq - xosq@ ashxatelu masin che iyl zavakneriun krtelu yev n@rants Iz-hnaravorn shat ushadrutyun yev gurguranq, yev amenaverchum amenaarajin@ Hayots lezu sovoretsnel - yete uzum en vor Hye mnan irents zavakner@.

 

shurj@s nayum yev apshum em te inchpes mer yeritasardutyan 60-70 LA HAyeren grel yev kardal chgiten. tsavali e che . mi qani tasnyak tari heto shat aveli tsavali klini qani vor n@ranq el irents yerexanern en unenalu yev chen unenalu giteliqneri *****r irents yerexanerin poxanstelu hamar.

[Accelerated]

Thats basically my point of view Mos, not so the wife can stay at home with the kids, but so she can have a CHOICE (of course as i mentioned before, it is sometimes more preferable that she does work or stay at home)