Hamshentsa

[Arpa]

Do you believe in providence and premonition?

Last night I was reading some past posts, one of which was this thread . I had already prepared the below site with the intent of adding. However I was a little hesitant for a variety of reasons, one of them being to wait and further embellish the article.

And this morning, I turn on Groong, among others California Courier where we see the following about Hamshen. Note that this is the same lecturer, Hovann Simonian that prompted this thread when he presented the same program at Haigazian in Beirut. What may be significant is that both Haigazian and Merdinian are affiliated with the Arm. Evang. Community.

So what, we say?

Is there maybe a renewed interest in our lost(?) brothers and that the Evangelicals are contemplating about some kind of mission to bring them back into the fold?

Finally. Never a day goes by that we are not reminded how we are Christians … blah, blah, blah…Who does not know that? Is it not tantamount of “preaching to the choir”. How about , the good Christians that we are, listen to and act as in this parable as told by Jesus, about the one lost sheep out as opposed to the 99 left in the flock.

Luke.15

[4] What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

[6] And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

[9] And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.

[24] For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Of course. Some of our own house self styled missionaries would probably want to have me disappear when I suggest that they move their pulpits to hostile places such as Hamshen. See subject topic “Ee Zen Hayer”

 

Caution. The below sites-videos come to us what some people may call Turkey, but they are from that “Little Armenia”?? called Hamshen.

Btw. MosJan, surf and find videos of Hamshen "barkabzuk". They call it "tulum/touloum".

 

Hamshen dance;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojl9-NzKs1E...ted&search=

Kachkar-Khachkar Mountain;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE6e33bsamQ...ted&search=

Hamshen kamancha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtsZWRG6GYE...ted&search=

******

 

4 - Hamshin: Islamicized Armenians are Topic of Feb. 22 Lecture at Merdinian SHERMAN OAKS, Calif. - The ARPA Institute will present a lecture on "The Hamshin: Speaking Armenian, Practicing Islam," on Feb. 22 at 7:30 p.m., at the Merdinian School Auditorium, 13330 Riverside Dr., Sherman Oaks. The lecture will be conducted by Hovann Simonian, a Ph.D Candidate in Political Science at USC. He holds an MA in International Relations from the Department of Political Science at USC, and another MA in Central Asian Studies from the Center for Near and Middle Eastern Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, the University of London. Simonian is the co-author of *Troubled Waters: The Geopolitics of the Caspian Region* (London: I.B. Tauris, 2001/2003) and the editor of the *The Hemshin: History, Society and Identity in the Highlands of Northeast Turkey* (London: Routledge, 2007). The Hemshin are one of the most enigmatic peoples of Turkey and the Caucasus. As former Christians who converted to Islam centuries ago yet did not assimilate into the culture of the surrounding Muslim populations, as Turkswho speak Armenian yet are often not aware of it, as Muslims who continue to celebrate feasts that are part of the calendar of the Armenian Church, and as descendants of Armenians who, for the most part, have chosen to deny their Armenian origins in favor of recently invented myths of Turkic ancestry, the Hemshinand the seemingly irreconcilable differences within their group identity have generated curiosity and often controversy. After a short introduction to the historical circumstances surrounding the conversion of Hamshin Armenians to Islam and the subsequent retention of crypto-Christian practices within the converted community, the lecture willfocus on the salient features of modern-day Hemshin identity, organized around the somewhat contradictory poles of allegiance to Islam and use of the Armenian language. For more Information, call Dr. Hagop Panossian at (818) 586-9660. *

 

 

[neko]

 

Hamshen dance;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojl9-NzKs1E...ted&search=

 

Probably not genuine Hemshinli. This one will be,

because it uses the name Çinçiva, which is the original Hemshin name for a village now officially known as Şenyuva.

 

Kachkar-Khachkar Mountain;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE6e33bsamQ...ted&search=

 

Something strange happens to Turks when they visit mountains. They never go there in small groups, or even in tens or twenties - they have to go there in their hundreds, like a small army invading an alien land, long lines of them marching up the hillsides over the passes, and along the ridges.

 

Hamshen kamancha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtsZWRG6GYE...ted&search=

 

Though it says he is from Surmene, not Hemshin.

 

[Arpa]

Steve, have you or your Presbyterian Church ever dared to remind those Hamshenites of their Christian past? Do you dare? How much do you value your life on Earth as opposed to that other place with 72 virgins with their Victoria's Secret panties down?

Why? Why not?

Too bad! In our Christian tradition we don’t have the promise of that land with 72 virgins, spread eagle to welcome the martyrs. Would you go there and preach if you actually were, in martyrdom promised the inheritance of those 72 virgins?

Presbyterian, Anglican, Catholic, Evagelial, Apostolic… give us an incentive for maryyrdom. While, in the meantime tell those bloody Jehovans and Morons to get the hell out of Armenia (1845, missionaries redux) and go to Hamshen, dare they?, to spread their BS. We don’t need that BS. We are up to here, suffocated to the point wher we can’t even pronounce the latter A as in Armenian without also mentioning the letter C, as in Christian. Or, is it visa versa?

Why are not those inventors of “Christianity” Christians themselves? Do they know something we don’t?

Edited February 13, 2007 by Arpa

[neko]

Caution. The below sites-videos come to us what some people may call Turkey, but they are from that “Little Armenia”?? called Hamshen.

 

Had a browse to see what else was on youtube.

 

Same caution warning.

 

Shakeycam of Kars - but look out for the many examples of the mayor's insane statue collection - including his elephant and his gold-painted Ataturk. I wonder what they are arguing about at the church (7.00 on the timeline).

 

Montage of (mostly) old pictures, postcards and engravings of Kars - all set against a meaningless soundtrack.

and

 

Pictures of Ani

 

 

[Arpa]

KARS ha!

That Istanbulized/Europeanized version!

Once I met a couple who professed to be Turkish. The man was of slight built, blond haired and blue eyed who claimed to have hailed from Trabzon. The woman, a statuesque brown, I mean brown, not brunette, twice his size said she was from very anatolian guttural GHGHarSS, repeat GHGHGHGHarSSS.

Do you still believe that all Turks speak that fake eruopeanized "chut ghrldm" Isatnbul dialect? If Ali Suat here he would dismiss it as "coarse Anatolian". And, for that matter, that all Armenians, including those of Artsakh and Beirut speak in the Yerevan "dialect"? Why should they? Which law prevents it?

[Aubépine]

Something strange happens to Turks when they visit mountains. They never go there in small groups, or even in tens or twenties - they have to go there in their hundreds, like a small army invading an alien land, long lines of them marching up the hillsides over the passes, and along the ridges.

 

I definitely have to see that. The Swiss are somewhat like that too. They have these "fraternités de randonneurs", large groups of usually older people or young families who go hiking. Probably it's the same in Germany and Austria too.

[neko]

KARS ha!

That Istanbulized/Europeanized version!

Once I met a couple who professed to be Turkish. The man was of slight built, blond haired and blue eyed who claimed to have hailed from Trabzon. The woman, a statuesque brown, I mean brown, not brunette, twice his size said she was from very anatolian guttural GHGHarSS, repeat GHGHGHGHarSSS.

Do you still believe that all Turks speak that fake eruopeanized "chut ghrldm" Isatnbul dialect? If Ali Suat here he would dismiss it as "coarse Anatolian". And, for that matter, that all Armenians, including those of Artsakh and Beirut speak in the Yerevan "dialect"? Why should they? Which law prevents it?

Only the old now pronounce it Ghars. TV is king, and TV pronounces it "Kars". And those statuesque females with their wild reddish-brown hair are mostly gone as well. I wonder what ethnic group they originated from.

[zurderer]

Something strange happens to Turks when they visit mountains. They never go there in small groups, or even in tens or twenties - they have to go there in their hundreds, like a small army invading an alien land, long lines of them marching up the hillsides over the passes, and along the ridges.

 

 

are you talking about villagers? It is normal, Infact I heard my grantfathers, they went mountains with dancing.(Horon)

[neko]

are you talking about villagers? It is normal, Infact I heard my grantfathers, they went mountains with dancing.(Horon)

No - I'm talking about Turkish tourists, city dwellers who come to the mountains in large groups.

[Arpa]

======

Hamshen dance;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojl9-NzKs1E...ted&search=

Is it me or did anyone else notice that “horoN” is a corruption of “horoM”, as in “Horomgla/Hromgla” (search and see). That is what the Pontians (Greeks) of the Black Sea are known as.

See a sample of Pontian dance (horom dance) and click on other videos to hear them sing. Whatever language it may be it definitely is NOT turdish;

Horom is a variation of “u-Rum”, the turkified form of “Rum” to mean Roman, Greek, Byzantian.

Which bring sto ming Hromgla, the one time seat of the Cilician Catholicate. See below.

Just in case, if one were to wonder what Hromgla means. It is from the Arabic Horom and qal’a (citadel).

Here;

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/212bd/1bb04f/

======

Search and see;

Qal'at ar-Rum

The Qal'at ar-Rum was a powerful fortress on the river Euphrates, 50 km northeast of Gaziantep, Turkey. It is called Rumkale in Turkish, Hromgla in Armenian; the word in all cases means "Roman (ie. Byzantine) Castle".

The strategic location was already known to the Assyrians, although the present structure is largely Hellenistic and Roman in origin. The site was occupied by various Byzantine and Armenian warlords during the Middle Ages. Qal'at ar-Rum served as the seat of an Armenian patriarch from the 12th century. From 1203 to 1293 it was the residence of the supreme head (catholicos) of the reunified Armenian church. In 1293 it was captured by the Mamelukes of Egypt following a protracted siege.

 

The fortress is currently a ruin accessible by boat only from the neighboring town of Halfeti.

 

 

 

 

 

[Zartonk]

A Different Tradition: Hamshen Armenians struggle for identity and recognition

 

By Julia Hakobyan

 

ArmeniaNow reporter

 

They seem like a lost branch of the family, dispersed throughout the world long before the Genocide of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey that created today’s Diaspora of seven million.

 

The Hamshen Armenians (Hamshentsi) are descendants of Armenians from the region of Hamshen, now in Turkey.

 

Founded in the 8th Century by the Armenian princes Hamam and Shapuh Amatuni, Hamshen (first called Tambut then Hamamashen) was captured by the Ottoman Empire in 1489. By the 17th Century part of the Hamshen Armenians had been forcibly converted to Islam, while the majority escaped to maintain the survival of their Christian faith.

 

Some historians call the Hamshentsi a unique Armenian group since it contains both Christians and Muslims. While some Christian Hamshens do not know Armenian, some among the Islamized Hamshentsi speak a dialect of Armenian as their native language.

 

Both Muslim and Christian Hamshentsi live in Russia, Georgia, Turkey, Armenia and Central Asia. Some historians estimate that there are several hundred thousand Hamshen Armenians in the world, while others speak of several thousands.

 

Sergei Vardanyan, a historian and journalist who is vice-chairman of the “Hamshen” charitable-compatriotic organization in Yerevan, says there is no way to know exactly how many Hamshen Armenians there are.

 

“The study of Hamshen Armenians should not proceed from the desire to create a sensation by publishing some fabulous data about a million new Armenians. My research shows that in some Hamshen families people themselves did not know whether they are Hamshentsi or not. ”

 

Vardanyan’s research over many years shows that at least some 20-30,000 Hamshentsi Muslims who speak Armenian live in Turkey as well as some 100-200,000 Hamshentsi Turkish speakers. In Armenia, there are some 10,000 Hamshentsi.

 

“Both Christian and Islamized Hamshentsi now have a common problem - preserving their national identity, since they know their history only at the level of folklore. While Hamshentsi in the former Soviet republics states know something of the history of Armenia, in Turkey they have no access to this.”

 

Hamshentsi Armenians form the majority of the Armenian population in the Krasnodar territory of Russia. Many settled also in Abkhazia. By the middle of the 20th Century Hamshentsi had founded some 140 Armenian schools in Krasnodar and 128 Armenian schools in Abkhazia. However, the national schools declined during the Brezhnev era and they were many fewer by early 1980s.

 

In 1944, on the orders of Josef Stalin, Islamized Hamshen Armenians who had settled in six villages in southern Adjaria near the border with Turkey were expelled to Central Asia. Forty years later when Vardanyan was traveling through Central Asia, he met some of the survivors.

 

Most of the 3,000 Islamized Hamshen Armenians he saw were blue-eyed and blond. Some said that they did not know their nationality – their passports stated “Hemshil” or “Turkish”.

 

Vardanyan recalls that when a group of Hamshentsi decided to introduce him to their mullah Khemdi, they told him that the visitor claimed that they were Armenian. The mullah replied: “That’s true.”

 

“How do you know?” the residents asked.

 

“My language tells me,” replied the mullah, explaining that they all spoke the Hamshen dialect of Armenian. Khemdi also said that he had a copy of the Koran in which someone had written by hand that the Armenian Christians had become Muslims.

 

Vardanyan says that there are dozens of stories like that, demonstrating that each generation of Islamized Armenians knows less and less about their origins. In 1984, Vardanyan made an effort to resettle one of the derelict villages in Lori with 150 families of Hamshen Islamized Armenians from Krasnodar and Abkhazia.

 

However, the program was not realized, partly because of official apprehension of conflicts between Armenians. Vardanyan says he is very disappointed at the indifference of the authorities towards issues of settlement and migration.

 

“Some say that Armenian society is not ready to accept Islamized Armenians, but I am not sure this is the only point. Armenia’s citizens were not happy to accept the refugees from Azerbaijan, Christian Armenians, either. Instead of creating opportunities to attract as many Armenians as possible, it seems that the authorities do the opposite and create conditions that make people leave the country.”

 

Vardanyan is the author of several books on Armenian history and Editor in Chief of “Hamshen Voice” newspaper. It is published in Yerevan once a month with support from private donations and the 1,000 free copies are circulated in Abkhazia, Krasnodar, Beirut, the United States and Turkey.

 

Vardanayan says the newspaper is an attempt to create a tie between Hamshen Armenians and their roots. It is popular not just among Hamshen Armenians, since the articles refer to the history, culture and traditions of Armenians generally.

 

Vardanyan says people often wonder why he spends so much effort on this one group of Armenians and ask whether he himself is Hamshentsi. He says he does it from a sense of national duty, since he does not believe that the Hamshen Armenians will succeed in keeping their identity without help.

 

“I feel responsibility towards the Hamshentsi simply because I am Armenian. With the help of the law on dual citizenship or any other law, Armenia should encourage a national gathering and bring together Armenians around the world to preserve it as a nation with good prospects for the future.”

[MosJan]

A Different Tradition: Hamshen Armenians struggle for identity and recognition

By Julia Hakobyan

ArmeniaNow reporter

They seem like a lost branch of the family, dispersed throughout the world long before the Genocide of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey that created today’s Diaspora of seven million.

 

The Hamshen Armenians (Hamshentsi) are descendants of Armenians from the region of Hamshen, now in Turkey.

 

Sergey Vardanyan says: “Armenia should encourage a national gathering and bring together Armenians around the world to preserve it as a nation”.

Founded in the 8th Century by the Armenian princes Hamam and Shapuh Amatuni, Hamshen (first called Tambut then Hamamashen) was captured by the Ottoman Empire in 1489. By the 17th Century part of the Hamshen Armenians had been forcibly converted to Islam, while the majority escaped to maintain the survival of their Christian faith.

 

Some historians call the Hamshentsi a unique Armenian group since it contains both Christians and Muslims. While some Christian Hamshens do not know Armenian, some among the Islamized Hamshentsi speak a dialect of Armenian as their native language.

 

Both Muslim and Christian Hamshentsi live in Russia, Georgia, Turkey, Armenia and Central Asia. Some historians estimate that there are several hundred thousand Hamshen Armenians in the world, while others speak of several thousands.

 

Sergei Vardanyan, a historian and journalist who is vice-chairman of the “Hamshen” charitable-compatriotic organization in Yerevan, says there is no way to know exactly how many Hamshen Armenians there are.

 

“The study of Hamshen Armenians should not proceed from the desire to create a sensation by publishing some fabulous data about a million new Armenians. My research shows that in some Hamshen families people themselves did not know whether they are Hamshentsi or not. ”

 

Vardanyan’s research over many years shows that at least some 20-30,000 Hamshentsi Muslims who speak Armenian live in Turkey as well as some 100-200,000 Hamshentsi Turkish speakers. In Armenia, there are some 10,000 Hamshentsi.

 

“Both Christian and Islamized Hamshentsi now have a common problem - preserving their national identity, since they know their history only at the level of folklore. While Hamshentsi in the former Soviet republics states know something of the history of Armenia, in Turkey they have no access to this.”

 

Hamshentsi Armenians form the majority of the Armenian population in the Krasnodar territory of Russia. Many settled also in Abkhazia. By the middle of the 20th Century Hamshentsi had founded some 140 Armenian schools in Krasnodar and 128 Armenian schools in Abkhazia. However, the national schools declined during the Brezhnev era and they were many fewer by early 1980s.

 

In 1944, on the orders of Josef Stalin, Islamized Hamshen Armenians who had settled in six villages in southern Adjaria near the border with Turkey were expelled to Central Asia. Forty years later when Vardanyan was traveling through Central Asia, he met some of the survivors.

 

Most of the 3,000 Islamized Hamshen Armenians he saw were blue-eyed and blond. Some said that they did not know their nationality – their passports stated “Hemshil” or “Turkish”.

 

Vardanyan recalls that when a group of Hamshentsi decided to introduce him to their mullah Khemdi, they told him that the visitor claimed that they were Armenian. The mullah replied: “That’s true.”

 

 

http://www.armenianow.com/images/uploadedimages/ai204001.jpg

 

“My language says that I am an Armenian,” said mullah Khemdi (on the right).

“How do you know?” the residents asked.

 

“My language tells me,” replied the mullah, explaining that they all spoke the Hamshen dialect of Armenian. Khemdi also said that he had a copy of the Koran in which someone had written by hand that the Armenian Christians had become Muslims.

 

Vardanyan says that there are dozens of stories like that, demonstrating that each generation of Islamized Armenians knows less and less about their origins. In 1984, Vardanyan made an effort to resettle one of the derelict villages in Lori with 150 families of Hamshen Islamized Armenians from Krasnodar and Abkhazia.

 

However, the program was not realized, partly because of official apprehension of conflicts between Armenians. Vardanyan says he is very disappointed at the indifference of the authorities towards issues of settlement and migration.

 

“Some say that Armenian society is not ready to accept Islamized Armenians, but I am not sure this is the only point. Armenia’s citizens were not happy to accept the refugees from Azerbaijan, Christian Armenians, either. Instead of creating opportunities to attract as many Armenians as possible, it seems that the authorities do the opposite and create conditions that make people leave the country.”

 

Vardanyan is the author of several books on Armenian history and Editor in Chief of “Hamshen Voice” newspaper. It is published in Yerevan once a month with support from private donations and the 1,000 free copies are circulated in Abkhazia, Krasnodar, Beirut, the United States and Turkey.

 

Vardanayan says the newspaper is an attempt to create a tie between Hamshen Armenians and their roots. It is popular not just among Hamshen Armenians, since the articles refer to the history, culture and traditions of Armenians generally.

 

Vardanyan says people often wonder why he spends so much effort on this one group of Armenians and ask whether he himself is Hamshentsi. He says he does it from a sense of national duty, since he does not believe that the Hamshen Armenians will succeed in keeping their identity without help.

 

“I feel responsibility towards the Hamshentsi simply because I am Armenian. With the help of the law on dual citizenship or any other law, Armenia should encourage a national gathering and bring together Armenians around the world to preserve it as a nation with good prospects for the future.”

 

 

[Zartonk]

 

You win Mos. You have the photograph.

[AK-47]

I think there should be an open invitation by the Armenian government for the return of all Hamshens, especially the ones deported by the Soviet Union in the 40s. Although they are Islamicized, the Armenian identity should come before religion. What does everyone think?

[MosJan]

 

You win Mos. You have the photograph.

 

 

[MosJan]

I think there should be an open invitation by the Armenian government for the return of all Hamshens, especially the ones deported by the Soviet Union in the 40s. Although they are Islamicized, the Armenian identity should come before religion. What does everyone think?

 

 

i think there should be a OPEN invitation for any Armenia from any corner of the world

going back to RA and getting permanent residents right or citizenship is next to impossible /

many times $$$ can solve most of the problems but 99% of the time many who have returned to Armenia are facing artificial difficultie$

[Arpa]

I think there should be an open invitation by the Armenian government for the return of all Hamshens, especially the ones deported by the Soviet Union in the 40s. Although they are Islamicized, the Armenian identity should come before religion. What does everyone think?

It may be sheer coincidence or an irony that this item was posted the same day as the above.

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=15...mp;#entry191351

This may be a whole new era in our existence that Armenia and Armenians are a nation, not just an ethnic denomination. It is about time, if not already too late that we learn to behave like a nation, acknowledge that nations are made of people of all shapes and forms, colors and religious affiliation or not at all.

In a book written by Garbis Der Yeghiaian “Conversations in Silence”, 1989,

http://pdalaptop.com/universaltran-69261-Armenia.html

where he describes his travels through Historic Armenia, stopping at each village and town like Sebastia, Kharberd, Tigranakert etc. During one stop, when he wanted the taxi driver to take him from Aintab to Jibin, the driver takes a wrong turn and they end up in Bourj. To make it short. An old man approaches him and after a few pleasantries he invite him to his house. After much hesitation he finally enters the man’s house. The olf man says: “You are not like others tourists. What other languages do you speak”?… .. “I ams ure you know what language this is written in”… He brings out a package wrapped in old newspapers, he peels the paper wrap and hand the book over. He says , his brother who had died 15 years before had handed it to him and advised him to guard it with his life. It was and Armenian Bible left by their father who had been murdered in 1915 leaving them orphaned and adopted by a Turkish family. When Garbis, after making sure no one else could hear them, reveals that yes, indeed he could read the book, that it was Armenian. The old man’s hands begin to shake even more as rewraps it and asks Garbis to please write it down, so he can show it to the other villagers, who, he says half of which are his children and grandchildren.

Further in the book the author writes many “hidden “Armenians” in all of his stops.

Shall we reopen this thread?

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=7065&hl=ee+zen

 

 

 

[Vanahye7]

It may be sheer coincidence or an irony that this item was posted the same day as the above.

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=15...mp;#entry191351

This may be a whole new era in our existence that Armenia and Armenians are a nation, not just an ethnic denomination. It is about time, if not already too late that we learn to behave like a nation, acknowledge that nations are made of people of all shapes and forms, colors and religious affiliation or not at all.

In a book written by Garbis Der Yeghiaian “Conversations in Silence”, 1989,

http://pdalaptop.com/universaltran-69261-Armenia.html

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=7065&hl=ee+zen

 

 

We learn to behave like a nation???? Acknowledge that all nations are made of people of different shapes, and religions???

 

 

Yeaa lets just bring all the million Muslims, into our country and welcome them with open arms to have a more densly populated republic. 50 years later, have 10 times more immigrted muslims into our country than ethnic Armenian Chrisitans. Then when the times comes, we will be exported out of what little left of land that we have just like the Ottoman Turks did true our grandparents in former Western Armenia and then truly have nothing. Has history not taught us anything? What planet are you living on?????

Edited March 2, 2007 by Vanahye7

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Hamshenayas, like most of the forcefully muslimized armenains who still live in 'Western Armenia', are proud of their Armenian heritage. In fact, the turkish government sees the threat to their national unity comes from the forcefully muslimized armenians. The turkish newspapers from 1980's and 1990's openly talk about this issue. The turks claim most of the leaders of PKK, including Ocalan, are belived to be armenians. By referring to Ocalan, the turks were calling 'Apo, Ermeni pici'(Apo, Armenian bastard).

 

In the struggle for justice, let's not underestimate the role of forcefully muslimized armenians. When the times comes, they will take arms against the turk butchers.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[Armenak]

No, Aratta. The Turks see all Armenians as a threat to their "national unity," not just the Muslimized ones. It's the only reason you have organizations like the Ermeni Arashtirmalari Enstitusu collecting data and reports on the Armenian-populated regions of Georgia (Javakhk), Iran and the Russian North Caucasus.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Armenak, I agree with you 100%. Except, I was talking about the armenians who live in 'Wester Armenia' or in other parts of turkey. Edited March 2, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[MosJan]

We learn to behave like a nation???? Acknowledge that all nations are made of people of different shapes, and religions???

Yeaa lets just bring all the million Muslims, into our country and welcome them with open arms to have a more densly populated republic. 50 years later, have 10 times more immigrted muslims into our country than ethnic Armenian Chrisitans. Then when the times comes, we will be exported out of what little left of land that we have just like the Ottoman Turks did true our grandparents in former Western Armenia and then truly have nothing. Has history not taught us anything? What planet are you living on?????

 

so if someone is not ethnic Armenian Chrisitans we should not even let him in Armenia ???

 

so what do we do excel armenians from Armenia that's not ethnic Armenian Chrisitans ? The Jehovah's Witnesses ?? Hari krishnas ??? Atheists ? even pagan Armenians

 

Armenian is a nation and not a religion

[Aratta-Kingdom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz5RKdE0hxQ

 

Follow the link and you'll see what Hrant Dink had to say about this issue. I honestly belive his remarks(NOT ONLY those of course) about the forcefully turkified armenians who now come to open is the reason why he was assassinated.

 

His close friend, Sarkis Hacpanian who now lives in Armenia, also spoke about this issues. As soon as i get the video, i'll link it to H/F.

Edited March 3, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[Zartonk]

so if someone is not ethnic Armenian Chrisitans we should not even let him in Armenia ???

 

so what do we do excel armenians from Armenia that's not ethnic Armenian Chrisitans ? The Jehovah's Witnesses ?? Hari krishnas ??? Atheists ? even pagan Armenians

 

Armenian is a nation and not a religion

 

Apparently. Unfortunately enough, to many Armenians, nothing is Armenian beyond the church. History starts at 301 and Vartan Mamigonian is the national patriarch. Like you said, if we are having a hard time tolerating compatriots who are exactly as the rest of us except when it comes to what god (or if a god) they believe in, what does that say about us as a people?

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

WATCH THE VIDEO:

 

http://www.ibctoday.com/News/ViewNewsItem....ideoPanelType=1

 

 

Genetic Research Excluded Turkish origin of Hamshen Armenians

 

 

 

06.12.2006

 

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The initial results of the genetic research of Hamshen Armenians launched in 2003 have been received. As reported by Yerkramas, the newspaper of Armenians of Russia, quoting project director Levon Yepiskoposyan, the genetic DNA analysis taken from Hamshen Armenians of Krasnodar and Rostov regions was carried out on the London university college jointly with British colleagues. The genetic investigation showed the following:

 

-Hamshen Armenians represent rather isolated territorial group, Armenian origin of which make no doubt.

 

-The hypothesis advanced by Turkish scientists on the so-called Turkish origin of Armenian-speaking. Hamshens was completely refuted.

 

Some clarity was introduced in the problem of Hamshens’ homeland. To receive a final answer to this question the genetic history of Hamshens is being investigated.

 

Hamshen Armenians make the majority of the Armenian population of the Krasnodar region and some regions of Kuban and Adygea. They originate from the region of Hamshen of Western Armenia, who settled in Kuban after the Armenian Genocide in the Ottoman Empire. According to the experts, some 250 thousand Armenians live in Adygea and Abkhazia. The number of islamized Hamshen Armenians living in Turkey varies from 700 thousand to 1.5.2 million.