Should we boycott ArmenianCafe.com?

[nairakev]

There are many armenian internet venues actually who became a place for exchange between armenians arround the world. And many of them succeeded to become one. Authentic, free place for expression and exchange.

 

 

The funniest thing is that, that there are ,also, many of them which pretend to be a place for exchange, while they became a tribune for some "megalomaniacs" who think to know what is good and what is evil for all armenians. I remember recently an incident at ArmenianCafe.com, where someone have blocked the forum for a while.

 

 

So noone could post his messages. This user's messages sounded very desperate and alarming. I don't remember exactly what they were saying. But the whole idea was "Stop censorship", "Stop cutting my messages". At the first sight, one could thing this was a message from someone who's messages got banned because of bad language or violation of User Agreement. I've checked if ArmenianCafe.com has any user agreement. No it doesn't. No user registration, no user identity, no message board culture and reglementation. What means it's an ideal place for anarchy! I wondered why this guy was posting hundreads of times empty messages, entitled 'Stop cutting my messages'. I didn't figure out. Probably the moderator had removed his messages for some opinion he did not approve, or he simply disliked. As there is no identified moderator, noone could get any idea on what was going in reality over there.

 

I can't side noone in this story, but one thing really annoys me. May be because of this i quit visiting ArmenianCafe.com

 

Why should we stay indifferent to a such accident in venues (which are used to present themselves No.1 armenian venues on the net). Can we allow ourselves to stay deaf and dumb , watch someone censored without any warning. Worst part is that someone in the forum. Probably one of owners of that forum responded to another participant, who had claimed that his messages were removed intentionaly. "You don't like my way, take the Highway".

Is this the way Armenian Diaspora tries to communicate online? Should we support anarchy and preferabilism of ones to others? Should we support venues, who earned undeserved reputation of ARMENIAN venues, to censor anyone's opinion?

 

I HATE BOYCOTTS. I DON'T THINK WE NEED THIS TO PROTECT THE IDEALS OF ARMENIAN DIASPORA, WHICH MAKE US UNITED, BUT GIVE US THE POSSIBILTY TO KEEP OUR INDIVIDUALITY. FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS ONE OF THESE IDEALS.

 

I won't call for boycott. I just quit going to Armenian Cafe .com, unlike many so called "armenian" intellectuals, who talk here about liberties and fredom of expression.

ArmenianCafe.com is a place for megalos and arrogant idiots who pretend to know what is good and what is bad for armenian people!

And that's why I'm saying: ArmenianCafe.com SUCKS!!!!

 

[ May 28, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

[Boghos]

I can´t tell you about anything about Armeniancafe because I have never visited the place.

 

But as to censorship, I think there is a very fine line separating that from maintaining an orderly discussion for the benefit of the majority and the preservation of minorities positions and opinions. What I have observed is that many forae have started with the best of intentions but have in a quickly reverse Darwinist process become an echo chamber for frustrated pseud-nationalists, chauvinists and other people that find comfort in having their own positions confirmed and repeated ad nauseam.

 

Anarchy is the strict political sense is what I would like to see. But as I said that is my position, other people in the forum defend other types of positions and our interaction is what makes HyeForum, hopefully, an interesting place.

 

Even though it is clear that the Internet has allowed for the exchange of ideas among Armenians all over, the medium itself seems to appease, on a more steady basis, those that are misfits in their own communities. By saying misfit I do not imply a negative connotation, but rather those that do not fit well into the traditional structures of communities. But these are also the people that tend to be involved with other issues that not just Armenian patriotic mumbo-jumbio, they express their creativity, dissidence, irony, knowledge etc in many other instances.

 

I am inclined to think that the Internet opened up room for many that were before voiceless or had been exiled within their own communities. They were joined by those that have had an "Armenian" intellectual life. That was only and is still only possible in Armenia (even though Lebanese Armenians may claim otherwise ).

 

So, with time, Armenian inteligentsia and its previously orphaned sons come together.

 

Please do not read my words with the same severity that you apply to our resident writer .

[nairakev]

I would bring my excuses to ANARCHISTS (i Mean those who follow the movement), because I'm fond of anarchy (as philosophy) as well. But knowing how anarchy was vulgarised and banalised, and the way many proclaimed anarchists mistreated badly their reputation. I'll obstain from bringing my excuses to anarchists. I'd say anarchy is 'way of living' that should be discovered as well. It's very seductive :-)

I smell, you, Boghos. You seem to be a "vilain".

[Boghos]

Indeed.

[nairakev]

Common, Kazza!

Why would you wish this magnificent virtual world be spoiled by becoming a lawful land.

Lawless land, you said!

I see. I have also a feer for those who are weak. But it is just a fear. It won't make me vote for bringing more into the internet. Internet should stay more liberal than the real life.

I know. I sound like a dreamer.

It's may be because I follow scrupoulously laws, by eternally hating them.

What a stupid creature am I?

Jesus!

[Kazza]

[nairakev]

Kazza, I did not e-mail. And I don't think I'm gonna do that.

If you're really curious to see the ambiance at that place. You have to visit it and just observe.

I'm sure you'll understand what I mean.

That place sucks!

[Kazza]

Pleased to meet you Niara,Thanks for your quick replies, apprecited them

 

Take up my email idea, it's a good one. I just thought by your first post you'd like suggestions on what to do about the armenian cafe.com

 

Mabye one day I might even see that place, who knows. But if it sucks as much as you say it does, I don't think I will, thanks all the same

 

Well, the internet a s a whole is a lawless land. Off the current subject of armenian forums and onto the internet as a whole, that should be no problem except for one drawback: innoents like kids from peodophiles, people wishing to express opinions, being lured by people with political motives, pretending to be some one wanting a date then meeting them to do real harm. Muderers doing the same thing.(There are current examples of this. This is why I think there should be certian rules on SAFETY.

 

Back onto the subject of free speech, censorship , and anarchy on armenian forums, I think there should be no censorship whatsoever and all the free speech. villianism too

 

there should also issue out warnings to members that if youre a parent or an under 18/21 , or if you dissagree with the veiws mentioned, the nature of the particular forum is unsutable , you go on it at your own risk.

[Kazza]

Niara, I have never visited armenian cafe.com, all I know about it is by what you have told me. But what I fell about armenian forums is, there should be free speech at all times. Otherwise, the forum would just turn into a place where only opinions are expressed that the moderator(s) want. Then, there would be any point in having the fourm in the first place!!, because there would be no flow or discussion!

 

But , all forums have their rules. I disagree with what they are doing buy cutting members off without even giving them the chance to know their rules(Like an email, or an agreement of terms and conditions) or to tell them what they are doing wrong. They should have communicated properley before banning some one with a surprise! Whether their behaviour to them seems unnacpetable to them or not is not the point on this issue because how are mebers expected to know how moderatoros want them to behave , if they didnt tell them what was expected of them!

 

 

"Bad behaviour" means different things to different people. What might be anarchy to some might be fine to thers.

 

Boghos, I feel you are totally right about former voicleless communities having a voice now through the internet. With that now, I wonder where that will take us? The whole world and armenians?

[nairakev]

Kazza,

noone under any regime succeeded to shut down human mouthes.

The one who succeeded to reduce the power of voice are those who gave the maximum of freedom of speech. That's what happening in today's western world. The market and freedom of speech, made this freedom a vulgar "moyen" of selling products. The authentic voices are having difficulties to breakthrough the power of "money".

 

Those guys at armeniancafe.com who have cut messages of the visitors whith whom they have disagreed, they will find themselves alone, soon or late.

If someone will make us shut up, we'll build another places to speak out.

[Kazza]

I mean, what could you do about this , Naira? Perhaps you could post an email to the moderators(If they have left a forwarding email adress, lol, if they have not that is SO unproffessional) just suggesting you opinion and telling them they way you feel about it. See what they say.

 

Censorship- Is crap. Boghos, what you mentioned about the thin line , and me about different ideas iof censorship/bad behaviour is exatly the problem. And to me the whole internet seems like a virtual world, and a lawless land. Moderators need to bring their OWN law into their sites pbecause nobody else will. This is why the armenian cafe are stupid because I understand it is a popular forum , and they will lose all their members if they feel their contributions will be towards some thing fruitless!

 

Anarchy. Politial anarchy! A very very wide subject.

[nairakev]

I agree completely. All users take their risks while visiting a particular area. May be there are should be some rules on "signification". I mean, like on TV, you got pictos/signs which signify something that will be clear for visitor's. For exemple, "adult site", "general public" etc.
But I won't go further than that. Everyone makes his choice by clicking or going to a particular site. He faces the consequences...
Sad for him, if he is unexperienced and hurted himself.
Well, may be this way he'll get some experience. After all, we all learned to surf. And we all learned to behave on the web. There are many rules which are not written, but we follow them. As in real life ...

[Kazza]

Yeah! well you see, this is the thing. AS I've repeating myself, all forums have their own different rules (IF they bother to state them-HA!) And Armenian forums wouldnt have many of the risks I mentioned above anyway - unless you did agree to meet somebody you thought might be a nutcase anyway. It's only opinion at the end of the day, and if you dont like it, dont read it! Juust express yourself.

[nairakev]

Actualy, Kazza, we have lots of things in common.

I admire your way of thinking.

 

There are moments when I feel, that we human beings (I don't know anymore, who we might be) are so alone. I doubt that this loneleness, presented sometimes as individuality, will not allow us to find common things.

 

But somehow we do find! I'd say who cares about individuality or even, better, personality.

 

I know that my individuality is enriched and depended always on stranger's individuality. That's why probably sometimes I love meeting strangers. Forums are those places where we go as well to find our next stranger. I don't think there will any "weirdo", who may try to stop us.

 

Censorship is a silly preoccupation, invented by cowards. Those who are gone with their fears. And all their job is to feed us with their "personal fears". I'd say, do you know any human being on this earth who does not have "personal fears"? If you'd say: "Yes, I do! It's me!" Well, I'd say: "Common girl, you better do! Can you imagine the number of censors arround you?"

Toughest censor is the one who inside us. We kill'm we are free!

 

I still think that the beer in "Armenian Cafe" stinks! BTW, i don't drink alcohol.

[MosJan]

Nairajan chem kartsum Boykot anelu KArik ka JAns .

Hrant@ ( ArmenianCafe.com`i ter@ ) bavakanin xelamit yev shnorgov yeritasard e , kartsum em jamanaki @endhatskum lutsumner k@gtni iyd problemneri, yete jamanak unes E-Mail gri iren yev yete djvar chi mek qani torrerov batsatri iren te inch k@tsankanayir vor aner ..

Hrant >>> hyehosting@HOTMAIL.COM

Harganknerov Movses

[nairakev]

Mos Jan,

I think you missed my point. In contrary, I don't call for any boycott. I've expressed an idea. As we discuss here various issues. This is one of them. And it doesn't concern only "Armenian Café", but many other let's say "public places", where we allowed to exchange.

[Kazza]

I think that browser is racist, to Kouioumdjians! It wont even let me on when I type the url! I I'm not particuluarly interested anyway. Only posistve, constructive sites!

[Harut]

i don't think any boycott is nessaccary. if you don't like the site, (any site) you don't go there. there is a boycott for you, a natural one. it's not like you have to go there, is it?

then no problem.

[Kazza]

That is exatly my point: I am not interested in going on that forum! I would kind of like to change the subject from them anyway..One day I will have my own website, complete with many different forums.