How low one can get, pathetic, really.

[razmouhi]

Also, Domino, what do you mean by "scraping" the Armenian Diaspora forum? Last time I looked it was still there. Of course there a Stalinist moderation over there, whoever runs the place must be a student of Joe Stalin.

[Azat]

razmouhi, please don't accuse Domino of lying without knowing what has transpired. Did you see the 20, 30, 40 (I don't know exactly how many) posts Ann had on Raffis site calling his stupid names and cursing at him? That is all Domino pointed out.

[razmouhi]

Domino did lie when he said the stuff about posting trash, did you see any trash and do you know first hand yourself what transpired? Yet you tell ME to refrain from commenting when you don't know any more than I do about the subject other than what Domino said? Then he claims there were death threats. Where is the proof of that?

 

Do you blindly accept everything he says? It seems like he is very much prone to exaggeration. Exactly what was this so-called trash? I want to know and have it explained in precise detail.

[Azat]

not true at all. I did go to the site and did see the CRAP that Ann had posted and I based my comments above on that.

[Leghi]

Azat,

 

If you really don't care what's going on between myself, Domino and Ann Frankenstein, then you won't see a need to take part in Domino's little tantrum then and join in his chorus, will you!?

 

What exactly did you see at Raffi's forum? Did yopu see what went on prior to or after that? No you didn't, you only saw what Domino aks Tyue aka Imajudas wanted you to see. About the insults, I think you just started out on the wrong foot right there, because you are implying that Domino and his bunch never do such things and AF and his bunch do and even initiate the insults when exactly the opposite is true. It is ALWAYS Domino, Thoth, Hagarag and the bunch that start the insults and don't pretend otherwise because anyone can see that as clear as day. As for being kicked out ASAP for insults, does that apply to EVERYONE? I didn't think so!

 

What will you bet that the insults will start from the other side and not us?

[Azat]

if you want the details email Raffi and I am sure he has saved a copy and will be willing to send you a copy, but do not post it here.

 

I am not the mod for Raffis forum thus I did not save the CRAP that was there for future arguments with anyone.

[Azat]

Leghi, I did not see what happened prior to the X number of posts by Ann. All I am telling you is that if you guys have problems with Domino or anyone else from another forum take it there. Do not bring it here. If you SPAM here or insult each other you will get warnings and be banned.

[Azat]

One more thing Leghi, Domino and I think Thoth each have a warning here for insults in our forum as well in the past. If they insult you or I they will get warnings and will be banned as well. We do not discriminate or look favorably to anyone here.

 

I just don't want you guys to bring the negative aspects of other forums here.

[Sip]

I saw the "spam" too. Looks like they were created on average about 2 to 3 per minute, with some gaps in between at periodic intervals (I didn't study it too deeply and I stopped looking past page 2 of the threads). Hopefully it was an automated script of some kind, otherwise, it would indicate an extremely disturbing state of mind ... to be able to sit there and for a LONG time just put the same thing over and over in different threads

[razmouhi]

I hope you are honest enough Azat to see for yourself who brought that discussion here. Hello? Who started this thread? I really think Domino's claims smell of extreme dishonesty. Right here, another poster provided us with what happened, you saw that, didn't you? I'd like Domino to explain how it went from that civilized discussion to all out war. Why did it happen?

 

Since he brought it up here and decided to get all these other people involved with his problems.

[Azat]

I agree with you that Domino should not have mentioned anything here about it. He could have sent a PM to the mods if he was concerned to give us a warning, but it did not belong in the public forum.

 

BTW, i am not discouraging anyone from posting here when i say keep the war between you guys out oh here. I like everyone to be able to post here, as longs as they obey the forum rules

 

[ November 12, 2002, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: Azat ]

[Leghi]

Azat,

 

I see it didn't take you long go where I knew you would eventually, I just didn't think it would be so fast!

 

"razmouhi, please don't accuse Domino of lying without knowing what has transpired. Did you see the 20, 30, 40 (I don't know exactly how many) posts Ann had on Raffis site calling his stupid names and cursing at him? That is all Domino pointed out."

 

Domino is a liar and we can prove he's a liar. From what I see, I believe "razmouhi" saw EVERYTHING that transpired and you saw only what Domino wanted you to see. However, I posted above how it all started but just as I expected, you conviniently overlooked that. So please don't bother to pretend to be honest about anything because you just lost your credibility.

 

"not true at all. I did go to the site and did see the CRAP that Ann had posted and I based my comments above on that"

 

And where are your comments on what Domino aka Tyue wrote which I reposted above? Being selective?

 

BTW, don't bother trying to, don't even think about trying to say we brought the conflict here, because it is CRYSTAL CLEAR that it was your Domino that brought it here and we don't particularly care for his lies about any of us!

[razmouhi]

I also found this statement of yours very interesting.

 

"thus I did not save the CRAP that was there for future arguments with anyone"

 

How do you know it was crap, you didn't see it? Are you again taking Domino's word for it?

[MosJan]

is the freak show back ???

 

 

 

haw nice welcome back kids

 

MOvses

[MosJan]

razmuhi if it's by Anush & Co. it is CRAP

[Azat]

Leghi,

What part of my comment is it hard for you to understand. Here I will say it one more time. "DO NOT SPAM OR INSULT EACH OTHER ON THIS FORUM".

 

I do not care about what has happened on another forum between you guys. I don't want you guys to go at each other here.

 

I also don't care to respond on what Domino or Theu has said there because I was not commenting on that but rather on Spaming and insulting each other.

 

BTW, I have already said that I do not think that Domino should have put this message on public forum.

[Azat]

razmouhi, I am sure you get spam email just like I do. And I am sure you are smart enough not to go through them when you get them like I don't read them. when you see a spammer put their message on a board X number of times, you just assume it is crap and move on. I did not even click on the subject to read the message.

[MosJan]

Azat jan Fedin bavakanin jamanak e indz/mez teryak pahel e katarvatsy yev nayev katarveliqi masin :

 

MOvses

[razmouhi]

Tell me...

 

Is this crap?

 

====

 

Jerusalem Post

 

In Jerusalem

 

Friday, 3 May 2002

 

A Perplexing Indifference

 

Last week, Armenians around the world commemorated the genocide of their people. Few Israelis took notice.

 

By Corinna da Fonseca-Wollhei

 

Jerusalemite George Hintlian faces an uphill struggle to make others

remember. Last week, he joined hundreds in a procession to a local cemetery. But there were few graves at which to mourn. April 24 is the day Armenians remember their 1.5 million dead, killed on death marches in what Armenians say was the first genocide of the 20th Century.

 

Few Israelis know what the day signifies. No Knesset member attended the ceremony in St. James' Cathedral in the Armenian Quarter of the Old City. There were no documentaries on Israeli television. Maps and pictures pasted on walls in the Quarter detailing the killings have been torn down or defaced.

 

Ignorance or indifference? Both, according to Hintlian, a historian of the

Armenian people and child of survivors.

 

"Nobody knows about the Armenian genocide because until 1990, our country, Armenia was inside the Soviet Union, where ethnic and religious minorities were repressed. Also, Turkey was a member of NATO, and in the context of the Cold War it was considered impolite to bring up the Armenian issue."

 

Turkey has consistently played down the figures of Armenians killed, and has denied that there was a premeditated plan to extinguish the Christian

minority in Turkey. According to the official Turkish line, Christians and

Muslims alike lost their lives in civil unrest in the context of WWI.

 

According to the Armenians, when Turkey went to war against Russia,

Armenians all over the country- but particularly near the Russian border-were accused of sympathizing with the enemy and were "deported," ostensibly to southern areas of the Ottoman Empire. But effectively, the deportations were death marches, in which hundreds of thousands men, women and children died of disease and starvation in the Syrian desert, or were slaughtered along the way by Turkish military police and their henchmen.

 

The international community's indifference was decried even by contemporaries such as Henry Morgenthau, then the American Ambassador to Turkey, Viscount Gladstone, and Winston Churchill. Adolf Hitler referred to the Armenian genocide on a number of occasions. In one speech in 1939, in which he spoke of his plan to "exterminate without mercy or pity men, women and children belonging to the Polish-speaking race", he said, "after all, who remembers today the extermination of the Armenians?"

 

Armenian remembrance day was first commemorated in 1965, 50 years after the beginning of the deportations. April 24 was the Armenian Kristallnacht. That night in 1915, Turkish police rounded up, imprisoned and executed Armenian intellectuals- journalists, doctors, lawyers and priests - across the country. Sine 1965, Armenians have pushed for greater awareness and recognition of their people's sufferings, with some success. About a dozen Western countries now recognize the Armenian genocide. Many have official ceremonies on April 24.

 

In February of this year, the European Parliament followed suit, expressing the hope that Turkey will face up to its responsibility - but stopping short of making Turkey's accession to the European Union dependent on recognition, let alone remorse.

 

In Israel, two factors contribute to burying the Armenian issue. One is the

country's strategically vital relations with Turkey, its only strong Muslim

ally in the region. The second, more elusive, is a largely unspoken concern

that recognition of the Armenian "genocide" will detract from the

uniqueness, and horror, of the Holocaust.

 

Earlier this month, when Turkish prime minister Bulent Ecevit accused Israel of carrying out a "genocide" against the Palestinian population, relations between the two countries turned chilly. Ecevit was rebuked not only by Israel, but also by Turkish politicians who underlined Israel's continued help with the "Armenian question."

 

Jewish-American lobbies protested Ecevit's comments by pointing to their

staunch support of Turkey in the face of Armenian claims of genocide.

Turkey's foreign minister Ismail Cem told Turkish television that

"especially in the US, the Jewish lobby has always supported Turkey against any injustices that have been made or that were going to be made."

 

Turkish sensitivities aside, Israel has always been reluctant to use the

term "genocide" to refer to anything but the Holocaust. Earlier this year,

Rivka Kohen, the Israeli ambassador to Armenia, upset Armenians by

questioning the term in relation to deportations of Armenians in WWI. The

Israeli foreign ministry, responding to an angry diplomatic note from its

Armenian counterpart, reinforced Kohen's position.

 

"Israel recognizes the tragedy of the Armenians and the plight of the

Armenian people," it read. "Nevertheless, the events cannot be compared to genocide, and that does not in any way diminish the magnitude of the

tragedy... This issue requires extensive research by a wide spectrum of

people and academic dialogue that is based on testimony and proof."

 

Hintlian believes there is solid proof of genocide, and points out that many

of the contemporary accounts of deportations and massacres come from foreign diplomats who were stationed across Turkey. Some of the most shocking photos of atrocities - piles of corpses, half naked Armenian women being tormented by uniformed Turks, Turkish officers proudly posing with severed heads - were taken by a German officer. Germany was Turkey's ally at the time, and officially approved the policy of "deportation."

 

"The Armenian genocide is different from the Holocaust," says Hintlian,

"but there are similarities. Both were planned, both were premeditated, both happened when a particular political party came to power. In both cases it was an inner cabinet decision. These are the common factors. The Armenian genocide didn't't happen for racial reasons, it didn't't happen for ideological reasons - it happened for political reasons."

 

Hintlian is not alone in denouncing Israel's ostrich-like attitude to the

Armenian issue. Two years ago, then- education minister Yossi Sarid attended the remembrance ceremony and pledged that the Armenian genocide would be taught in Israeli schools as part of the history curriculum. His comments drew criticism at the time, much of it from colleagues in the Israeli government. His plan never saw the light.

 

Yair Auron of the Kibbutzim College of Education in Tel Aviv designed a

syllabus for teaching the genocide of the Armenians and the persecution of

gypsies in World War II to Israeli high-school students. His book, The

Banality of Indifference, examines Jewish attitudes to the Armenian

genocide. A number of Israeli intellectuals, including Yad Vashem's Yehuda

Baur and Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel, have spoken out against the apparent

conspiracy of silence.

 

Some argue that precisely because the Holocaust is unique, it is imperative to study other genocides as well. Yet the Armenian tragedy has sparked more than indifference in some. In the past five years, maps of the Armenian genocide with pictures of victims have been vandalized and torn down from walls in the Quarter. Hintlian says he saw people- young and old- tearing down posters in broad daylight. One yeshiva student he caught in the act told him he was offended by the photographs of naked bodies on the posters. Another poster had "not true" scrawled over it.

 

Ultimately, though, Armenians are less concerned with Israel than with

Turkey. "My problem is with the Turks," says Hintlian. "And it is really a

spiritual and intellectual problem. What I would like is not recognition- I

don't need a Turk to be thinking about this - but, for God's sake, a feeling

of regret...! The people suffered need not recognition, but dialogue. What I

need first of all is a dialogue with a Turkish intellectual. And then I

need reconciliation. My healing will come only from such dialogue. For now, we are stuck in a monologue. And that is the painful part."

 

At 94, Sultanik Manougian has lost her eyesight and much of her hearing, but her memory remains sharp. "I remember everything as if it happened

yesterday." She says in clear, if halting, English." I was born in Telas. I

was seven years old when I was expelled from my home. When the war broke out (in 1915), the Turkish government took all the men, intellectuals, doctors, lawyers, and killed them. They were killed with knives, axes, beatings. Then all the others had to leave. My mother kissed the door of our home - it was a very nice house we had, with a big garden.

 

"The Turks had sent everyone letters saying either change your religion or leave. One or two families converted. Everybody else was evicted. It was a very hot summer, dust everywhere. We had to walk, and on either side there were gendarmes, they would beat us. We saw bodies by the side of the road. When darkness fell on the first day, we saw we were in the same place we had been in hours before. They would take us in circles like that for days. For 10 days we walked in the desert. People remained on the ground from hunger, thirst. We reached Bozanti and there was some water, dirty water, with buffalos and cows standing in it. We drank it anyway. Then I became very ill. Again, we had to walk."

 

In the next town they reached, Manougian was saved by an uncle who worked for the Baghdad railway and was able to intercede on her behalf with the Turks. Her mother pleaded with the man to also save her little boy who was four, but the Turkish police said boys had to stay in the march. Manougian, who had contracted typhoid from the filthy water she had drunk, remained in Bozanti for the remainder of the war. Eventually, via Istanbul and Beirut, she came to Jerusalem where she continues to live inside the walls of the Armenian convent. Out of 20 members of her family, only two others survived. All the rest died in the desert.

 

When Manougian hears that her story will be printed in the Jerusalem Post - more than 50 years after the newspaper changed its name she still calls it the Palestine Post - she gets agitated. Do we have to use her name? Could we perhaps use a pseudonym instead? "You cannot print what I said about the Turks. They will come and kill me!" Eighty-seven years later, the fear of persecution and death is still raw.

 

This year, the Sunday following Armenian remembrance day was Palm Sunday in the Armenian church calendar. Manougian was too frail to attend the mass in St. James' Cathedral, a mixture of religious ceremony and social happening.

 

In the semi-darkness of the church, the silver and brass oil lamps,

blue-and-white tiled columns, and deep red rugs compete to catch the few

shafts of light that come in through the small windows. The walls of the

church were covered in an eclectic collection of colorful curtains, some

hundreds of years old, many richly embroidered in silver and gold thread.

 

At the climax of the ceremony, dozens of children pull open the curtains to

symbolize the opening of the gates of Jerusalem for Jesus' entry. Armenian families as far afield as California or Holland pay handsome donations to the church for the privilege of having a curtain pulled open in their name. Prices start at a couple of hundred dollars and go up to $1,000 for the massive curtain at the center of the church. This year, Sultanik Manougian had delved deep in her pocket for the honor of having her name read out first. The main curtain was drawn in memory of her husband, who died last year.

 

But for the 94-year old survivor, memory is not a luxury. It is a vital part

of her being.

 

-CdFW

[Guest Fadi]

I appologise to every members of this board, to have brought this thread here and being responsable of this mess.

 

As me having lied, anyone here is free to email Raffi and ask how it started.

 

Regards

 

[ November 12, 2002, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Domino ]

[MosJan]

if you like to play with words - most evrey one will aggry that anything composed by Anush & Co is CRAP

[MosJan]

just to rimind you Anushig

 

By me - Mosjan

 

posted April 12, 2002 11:04 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Moderators have voted

 

Poll Results: -= =- (4 votes.)

Ban -= YES =- 100% (4)

Ban -= NO =- 0% (0)

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Vote to Ban

 

Reasons:

 

1) Racist posts

2) Failure to comply to forum rules. Which rule?

 

Do NOT:

 

1. Post vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, invasive of a person’s privacy, threatening, inaccurate, defamatory, false, insulting, or abusive material.

2. Post advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or solicitations

3. Include personal communication in your posts or otherwise digress from the original topic

 

All 3. They have all Violations in 1 and 3 covered. #2 they are soliciting for everyone to hate Jews.

 

Vote - 4- yes | -0- NO

 

If a member or members are band from HyeForum, no pardons, any time this same member join the forum under different name / user name, we reserve the right to ban this person / persons.

 

In Anushe's case, she was banned from Hyeforum previously.

 

Moderators' decisions are not reversible, and no pardons are giving to !!!anyone!!!

 

BAN Anoush and A.R.

 

April-12-2002

Moderatos of HyeFrum

[Azat]

razmouhi, It is not yet, if however one posts it 200 times I will call it crap and ban that person from this forum.

 

Is it really that hard for you guys to understand what I am saying?

 

consider this my last response to you on this subject. There is noting more to say about this subject.

 

If however you would like for people to discuss this news report(even though it is old and may already be there or in the news section) please post it in the genocide section and I am sure members who are MUCH smarter than I on this subject will respond and we all can learn from each other.

 

BTW: I don't know for sure but I am certain that his was not what Ann had posted 30-40 times. At least the subject like contained a curse word. And that is another thing we do not allow on this forum.

[MosJan]

is this crap or not ???

By anush & Co

A.R.

(no login)

About April 13 2002, 9:06 PM

 

Those Moron "Armenians" at the hye forum. The morons that post there are from Armenia and come to LA

and all of a sudden think they are some sort of "gods"

It`s the Culture Shock. They don`t give a shit about Armenia all they care about is themselves. This include Mos Jan, Azat, Semenpan , Jewarag, Domino the Half Kike, Winston the wannabe, Harut. These guys can`t tell there ass from there elbow. That Semenpan also said that Russia is communist. These moron are 10 years behind every one else. Russia is Orthodox Christian you dumb ass! They are all traitors.

[Sip]

I wonder why they didn't mention me ...

 

By the way Azat, I have this automatic script that organizes ALL my spam email into categories:

 

1) Male anatomy enhancement

2) Female anatomy enhancement

3) Weight Loss

4) Bank/Credit loans

5) 10 or fewer "females" waiting for me

6) 10+ "females" waiting for me

7) "Men" waiting for me goes straight into trash can

8) Business offers from Affrican countries

9) Other

 

It works great! My favorite category is #5 by the way but I also take a look at the stuff in #6 (maybe once a week).

 

[ November 12, 2002, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Sip ]