joseph Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 Arshaaaaaaaak , I am still waiting for an answer but please make it SHORT .Sip Jan my goodness are you telling me that you lost faith because of some sharlatans on TBN , then the devil had sacceeded , he can use the likes of Beny Hinn to brain wash and looks like he won one and here you are sitting on the fence or maybe on the other side .Hagarag and Ara lost their faith in Armenians and you lost faith in Christianity.... WOOOOOW , God help us . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arshak Posted January 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 Alright. The question is not about Jesus, Benny Hinn, or any other person, but it is about you, the Hovsep, me, Arshak. If (for example) Charles Dikenson thinks a good will about me without me knowing, his desires for me will come true. And the more people think the same for me or you, it will take in effect much faster. But if a more powerful person does it, then more people are not needed. And this prooves that why people need to go to church, and the priest is supposted to direct what the crowd is to pray for and what purpose by being a more powerful soul owner. Now days, this has been transformed and sometimes seen as hobby or something, or a place of rendezvours. Since Jesus had reached to his enlightnemtn, he knew what to tell people to paray for. If you don't know what your are praying for, the prayer will go null. Jesus went and say the unfortunate, and then prayed for them. You need to go see those childeren in the hospital, (because they can't come to you) come back home, then visualize them in your mind, and then pray hard by saying your desires in your mind. But if we go together to the hospital and come back to our temple, and then pray, the results will be supurb, compared if you had gone alone. Think about it—why do business man go conferences together and not alone? The same reason.(And we will have less traffic by carpooling) You see, we can eliminate that one problem by itself, and who knows someone could have been praying for this issue after all (please lessen traffic so that I can go to work faster, and reach on time) Sorry, my 2nd spirit can't resist to talk so much. Wait until we get to the 3rd, and it will be pretty much tuff stuff. † ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just think good things, and if you keep saying that woman with her dog in her hand is this and that.... you're interfereing with her good will. Just say in your mind I am with you, and pray for her wishes to come true what ever they might be. [ January 06, 2003, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Arshak ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Arshak - complete bunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Arshak please stop hallucinating .I gave you a simple chalange , and here you are eluding and giving me an empty sermon .Did you say that you were sitting in your chair and saw light coming from up then to your right and then to your left I too see those lights summer time in my garden they have wings and produce flashing light from their tail As I said to you I hope youe keep your money , and please please dont sell your house and send them the money you might end up living in a mision and doing this the rest of your life . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Arshak:It actually worked for me the other day when I was programing. I believed that Jesus is going to help me to program and I have to say that it did workout, which gives me the impression as if I don't direct my destny, because in the 7th deepest spirit, it is I anyway.WOW! You too? I can't tell you how many times I have contacted my 7th spirit to help me debug my C program!!! This is so cool ... This one time, I forgot to initialize my variable, and Jesus showed up and told me that on line 47, I had to have "int c=4;" as opposed to "int c;". Hallllleluia! Arshak, do you really think God and Jesus care about your programs, football games, poisons in cups, our daily pains, or my headache? quote:Originally posted by Arshak:And this ALSO prooves that Benny Hinn can heal! And the other story that I heard on TBN was that .... W H A T also proves? I read your posts 4 times and I still have no idea what proves Benny Hinn can heal. What was "this"? I even tried to contact my 4-th 5-th and 6th spirits to help the 7th one, prayed to Jesus and really believed that you had really proved something but I still came up empty. Oh, and for the rest of that statement, are you telling us that just because they show something on TBN, it's a proof and that it actually happened? Does your 7-th spirit agree with you here? cause that's a bit Dear Arshak, I really don't mean to disrespect but I really laughed out loud when I read your post. I hope your thinking and spirits and jesus bring you much joy in life and that you don't go bankrupt giving money to those B O Z Os on TV. But the only reason I said anything, is because statements like what you make really trivialize and make a mockery out of christianity and religeon ... and money-driven, two-faced, selfish, sharlatans like the ones on TBN are the reason I stopped being "spiritual" in the first place (may years ago). Shame on them for making me lose such an important part of my humanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
564312 Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 "Dear Arshak, I really don't mean to disrespect but I really laughed out loud when I read your post. I hope your thinking and spirits and jesus bring you much joy in life and that you don't go bankrupt giving money to those B O Z Os on TV." Maybe Arshak is excited to believe in God but is blind to see the unfortunate obviousness. "But the only reason I said anything, is because statements like what you make really trivialize and make a mockery out of christianity and religeon ... and money-driven, two-faced, selfish, sharlatans like the ones on TBN are the reason I stopped being "spiritual" in the first place (may years ago). Shame on them for making me lose such an important part of my humanity." Seaphan you are right they are laughable but why lose faith because of the human opportunism? "Gaytakgutyunner kgan Ashkharum baych vay nran vori mijocov gaytakgutyun@ kga". Roman Pops sold the gates of heaven for a price the same repeats in many forms. I think that fate has nothing to do with religion. Even if someone gets hilled watching PBS is not because of Beny Hinn but only because of faith.Didn’t Jesus say “Gna ko havatk@ kez bjchkec” This is a very long subject and people tend to disagree the existence of God. Really is it because of the personal ignorance, or is it that someone was searching God with such a thirst and so much and after searching for many years came to the conclusion that there is no God but is all fictional jibberish. Some people don’t believe God because it makes them differently unique, some people are bitter, some others turn to different spiritualities and who knows what else. I don’t think anyone 100 percent should deny the Gods Existence. In many ways even Science proofs God. I think that Fate is a marvelous thing I speak because of my personal experiences; no I did not get hilled watching PBS nothing like that. Believing in God is like if you see a thing that is an orange and I see that same thing as an apple how can you make me see what you see and visa versa, unless a personal experience ulters the conviction? Explain that there is no such a thing as faith and no such a thing as faith in God. At the end what is remembered? Who is remembered? Everyone has one life to live and how you live it, its up to you. It also says in the Bible that everything is given to me but not everything is constructive to my soul. Anyone in here can pick up a knife and stub someone, fly a plain to a building, choose to have any kind of sex.what is stopping us? God simply shows through His word the way to completeness because no matter how good you think you are no one has reached the unconditional, the ideal, humans throughout the centuries have tried reaching that ideal Eden Communism, Liberalism, Greece’s Republic all taken from the Bible but all collapsed and will collapse because of human nature and conflict. You are free to choose believe or not. But just like there are rules in nature there are also rules in spiritual world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 564312 - your post (beyond the first few lines) is equally gibberish as Arshaks. All your (spiritual?) rules and concepts/animorfication of God (?) are constructs that you have created. Paganism preceeded Christianity, exists to this day, and will undoutably outlast it...so which is more "right"? The Bible, my friend, is incredibly derivitive (both old & new testaments) - yet you claim that all things derive from it... Just because i don't believe as you do gives you no right to claim that I am pathological - or that your beliefs are in any way better then mine. I am entirely secure/comfortable in my beliefs - or lack thereof. I have no desire to seek answers (where none can be had). I have only the child curiosity and wonderment regarding all things known and unknown and revel in discovery - even knowing it is but a fraction of truth (and maybe even more lie). I fail to see the need for a constructed set of beliefs made up from ideas that are clearly incorrect/incomplete. If you need this and are satisfied with this then fine - just don't presume that I am ignorant or in any way lesser then you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
564312 Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by THOTH: quote:Originally posted by 564312:Faith in God started before paganismOn which planet? This planet quote:Originally posted by 564312:all things derive from God yes. By definition a false statement. Regardless - this is your belief/assumption. It is based only on your faith. Just as I could say that I believe that each star in the universe is a thinking entity (with incredible processig power/memory etc derived from its magnetic forces - nuclearly fueled etc...) I could develop a complete cosmology surrounding it. And these stars (ours in particualr) created life on earth. By the way they are single sex entities and just can't understand why we care about such things so much... But you couldn't since you have no faith whatsoever. Vortegica et havatk@ Busnelu? Oh, and aliens walk among us. Have I ever seen one. Well, yes..er I think I must have. Well you certainly cannot disprove me... I wouldn't even try. quote:Originally posted by 564312:Any belief is better then none.It is? I completly disagree. Are you telling me that if I believe that radio receptors have been implanted in my brain to recive signals from mind control men in black - thats better then not believing? I can't agree that to have belief (in what may just be total fiction) is better then non-belief. And on another level I am insulted by such a statement. NO. a man with no faith/belief is a lost man. We are talking about God no Alien beliefs Any belief in God little or lesser then less, but at least something. quote:Originally posted by 564312:what was the saying? "only the fool said there is no God" No I think the saying was that "the earth is flat" - and if you believe otherwise you are a fol and will fall off the edge of the earth. or was it that the Earth is the center of the universe..yeah thats the one...what a fool Gallileo was - we should just believe in what the catholic church says about reality.... I am not Catholic. quote:Originally posted by 564312:everyone has some convictionsYes - I believe that we are incapable of knowing and to claim that we do...(reference firest post and subsequant posts in this thead...loop... Blah.. quote:Originally posted by 564312:Who proved that?No need - I am not the one who is trying to prove anything... You think that. I was expressing my thoughts just like you are in few hundred posts, you have the right not to read mine. quote:Originally posted by 564312:Sorry I did not mean that. I don't think you are being honest (either with me or with yourself perhaps) - as this is exactly what you are saying.whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 56c3po - thx2132 - whatever... "NO. a man with no faith/belief is a lost man. We are talking about God no Alien beliefs Any belief in God little or lesser then less, but at least something" First of all - if he is as you say - God is an alien (to us). And one who seems to be consitently working against our interests... Second - I am not lost - not at all. I am content. One cannot know everything. Why fret because you can't (or make up an explanation/fairy tale just to be assured...) Do I need to know how my TV set works to watch TV? Do I really need to know how everything works in order to survive? Could an Aborigine or other hunter gatherer type of people be expected to know why airplanes fly or how to microwave a TV dinner etc - do you think that he really cares too - that it causes him stress...that he is lost? You presume much. You call me lost - I call you fooled/a fool. Your responses to my posts are pretty much non-responses. They equate to "I say it, I believe it, it is true" Unfourtunatly you offer no compelling facts/evidence/argument for me or anyone to accept your contentions. BTW - paganism pre-dates christainity by at least several hundred thousand years...(I don't see any crosses painted in Neandertal caves for instance...) All of the Judeo-Christian tradition - male dominated - shepeard religions (religions of marauders - of nomads - anti - agriculture - anti equality - anti- women) - run contrary to the ways of Gaia - our Earth mother - our mothers - contrary to (true/ancient) Armenian tradition...they are abberations...so don't force your heresy on me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arshak Posted January 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Nevermind. [ January 10, 2003, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Arshak ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arshak Posted January 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 [ January 07, 2003, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Arshak ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
564312 Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 quote:Originally posted by THOTH:564312 - your post (beyond the first few lines) is equally gibberish as Arshaks. Thanks. All your (spiritual?) rules and concepts/animorfication of God (?) are constructs that you have created. thanks Paganism preceeded Christianity, exists to this day, and will undoutably outlast it...so which is more "right"? Faith in God started before paganism The Bible, my friend, is incredibly derivitive (both old & new testaments) - yet you claim that all things derive from it... You claim that many others disagree. all things derive from God yes. Just because i don't believe as you do gives you no right to claim that I am pathological - or that your beliefs are in any way better then mine. you took it on yourself i wasn't even addressing you. Any belief is better then none. what was the saying? "only the fool said there is no God" I am entirely secure/comfortable in my beliefs - or lack thereof. I have no desire to seek answers (where none can be had). I have only the child curiosity and wonderment regarding all things known and unknown and revel in discovery - even knowing it is but a fraction of truth (and maybe even more lie). yes you are right. But everyone has some convictions I fail to see the need for a constructed set of beliefs made up from ideas that are clearly incorrect/incomplete. Who proved that? If you need this and are satisfied with this then fine - just don't presume that I am ignorant or in any way lesser then you...Sorry I did not mean that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 quote:Originally posted by 564312:Faith in God started before paganismOn which planet? quote:Originally posted by 564312:all things derive from God yes. By definition a false statement. Regardless - this is your belief/assumption. It is based only on your faith. Just as I could say that I believe that each star in the universe is a thinking entity (with incredible processig power/memory etc derived from its magnetic forces - nuclearly fueled etc...) I could develop a complete cosmology surrounding it. And these stars (ours in particualr) created life on earth. By the way they are single sex entities and just can't understand why we care about such things so much... Oh, and aliens walk among us. Have I ever seen one. Well, yes..er I think I must have. Well you certainly cannot disprove me... quote:Originally posted by 564312:Any belief is better then none.It is? I completly disagree. Are you telling me that if I believe that radio receptors have been implanted in my brain to recive signals from mind control men in black - thats better then not believing? I can't agree that to have belief (in what may just be total fiction) is better then non-belief. And on another level I am insulted by such a statement. quote:Originally posted by 564312:what was the saying? "only the fool said there is no God" No I think the saying was that "the earth is flat" - and if you believe otherwise you are a fol and will fall off the edge of the earth. or was it that the Earth is the center of the universe..yeah thats the one...what a fool Gallileo was - we should just believe in what the catholic church says about reality.... quote:Originally posted by 564312:everyone has some convictionsYes - I believe that we are incapable of knowing and to claim that we do...(reference firest post and subsequant posts in this thead...loop... quote:Originally posted by 564312:Who proved that?No need - I am not the one who is trying to prove anything... quote:Originally posted by 564312:Sorry I did not mean that. I don't think you are being honest (either with me or with yourself perhaps) - as this is exactly what you are saying. [ January 07, 2003, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
564312 Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Hello Arshak To Toth: “And one who seems to be consitently working against our interests...” What are your interests? What you want to have an orgy with 50 people and God is working against your interests? Everyone is responsible for their own actions take for instance 9/11 you think God is responsible for this? Or was it that US government had the knowledge and the information regarding this attack and had done nothing to prevent it. “First of all - if he is as you say - God is an alien (to us). God is alien to you because you chose that how do you expect God to help you when you absolutely deny and hate Gods existence. “Second - I am not lost - not at all. I am content. One cannot know everything. Why fret because you can't (or make up an explanation/fairy tale just to be assured...) Do I need to know how my TV set works to watch TV? Do I really need to know how everything works in order to survive? Could an Aborigine or other hunter gatherer type of people be expected to know why airplanes fly or how to microwave a TV dinner etc - do you think that he really cares too - that it causes him stress...that he is lost?” That’s great that you are content. How monotonous life would have been if humans were in content with just eating and going to toilet. We evolve because we are never in content. Must I count the great achievements, incredible geniuses that were and are because of the burning desire to seek, question, ponder, experiment and create. You contradicted yourself because if Galileo was content with what he was told he would have never achieved his great discoveries, even a little babes that are born they are seeking, questioning the most simplest things in the world. Seeking God is a personal journey it is not dogmatic like you see or are told. “You presume much. You call me lost - I call you fooled/a fool.” you called yourself that I did not.Yes himar em, merci. “Your responses to my posts are pretty much non-responses. They equate to "I say it, I believe it, it is true" Unfourtunatly you offer no compelling facts/evidence/argument for me or anyone to accept your contentions.” I don’t seek your acceptance because im spitak@ sev chi darna, ko sevnel spital chi darna! I am just enjoying my typing conversation with a complete stranger and it takes away my boredom at work. Besides I am sure you have heard many discussions regarding this subject since you seem very overzealous about this. “BTW - paganism pre-dates christainity by at least several hundred thousand years...(I don't see any crosses painted in Neandertal caves for instance...)” Adam, Eve and their offspring’s had a relationship with the Living God and Christ existed before being born on earth. Read Genesis carefully! “All of the Judeo-Christian tradition - male dominated - shepeard religions (religions of marauders - of nomads - anti - agriculture - anti equality - anti- women) - run contrary to the ways of Gaia - our Earth mother - our mothers - contrary to (true/ancient) Armenian tradition...they are abberations...so don't force your heresy on me!” Blah Blah Blah.. I hope you stop this thread because I am not forcing on you anything. God is pro equality. Fact - Marxism and Communism was derived from the Bible. Anti agriculture? Read all the genesis, read the story of Job before you read countless others. Anti women??? God has always regarded and is regarding woman as equal to man! Eve – how was she created? From the man’s rib if so she is equal to God and to man, besides look how beautiful woman is how could God create a human so beautiful without regarding her equal to God and to man. God did not put this difference between women and men. Men did it themselves!! God also says that in heaven there are no women or men. If God was anti women then God would have said “ooo superior men you will be kings in heaven and women will lick the ground that you walk on.” Doesn’t it say in the genesis “and because of her man will forget his family and will go after her” it seems she sounds pretty equal if not superior. And again throughout the Bible stories after stories of heroines and their achievements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 quote:Originally posted by 564312:To Toth: “And one who seems to be consitently working against our interests...” What are your interests? What you want to have an orgy with 50 people and God is working against your interests? Everyone is responsible for their own actions take for instance 9/11 you think God is responsible for this? Or was it that US government had the knowledge and the information regarding this attack and had done nothing to prevent it. Floods, pestilence, famine, crippled children, henious crimes (such as Genocide) - etc. Your God has his fun at our expense. Meanwhile he decrees that most anything we might wish to do (what is natural for us to do) that is fun is bad - and we are threatened with (further) punishment in hell. Your God is anti-human/humanity in most all respects... BTW, your 9/11 contentions speak much about yourself - concerning how gullible and accepting of (insubstantiated) myth you are... quote:Originally posted by 564312:“First of all - if he is as you say - God is an alien (to us). God is alien to you because you chose that how do you expect God to help you when you absolutely deny and hate Gods existence.Well I don't expect and I don't believe. I don't hate "Gods" exsistence because there is no such creature...do I hate the concept? No - I am indifferent. Do I hate people like you who think they know it all and that somehow I am a lesser human because I don't believe - yeah sure, bugs the hell out of me...pisses me off actually...particularly these consdesending statements and denying that you are putting other religions/beliefs down when in fact you are - knowingly or not... quote:Originally posted by 564312:“Second - I am not lost - not at all. I am content. One cannot know everything. Why fret because you can't (or make up an explanation/fairy tale just to be assured...) Do I need to know how my TV set works to watch TV? Do I really need to know how everything works in order to survive? Could an Aborigine or other hunter gatherer type of people be expected to know why airplanes fly or how to microwave a TV dinner etc - do you think that he really cares too - that it causes him stress...that he is lost?” That’s great that you are content. How monotonous life would have been if humans were in content with just eating and going to toilet. We evolve because we are never in content. Must I count the great achievements, incredible geniuses that were and are because of the burning desire to seek, question, ponder, experiment and create. You contradicted yourself because if Galileo was content with what he was told he would have never achieved his great discoveries, even a little babes that are born they are seeking, questioning the most simplest things in the world. Seeking God is a personal journey it is not dogmatic like you see or are told. You completely misundertand my use of content. I am content to understand that I will never "know" the universe or understand creation etc - as it is clearly beyond my understanding. I am not rejecting knowledge/discovery - not at all - nor bettering myself - or wishing such for humanity. I just don't see the need to make up and believe in fairy stories. And in fact I often see that those who call themselves Christians/believers or such often shut out knowledge - because it does not fit within their prescribed framework for reality. Example being - not teaching evolution in the schools, rejecting our fossile record and much of scientific discovery. You don't need to be Catholic to be a moron apparently... quote:Originally posted by 564312:“You presume much. You call me lost - I call you fooled/a fool.” you called yourself that I did not.Yes himar em, merci. You said that those without "God" are lost. I reject that and turn it about. Thjose who think that they have "God" are fools/fooled - IMO. quote:Originally posted by 564312:“Your responses to my posts are pretty much non-responses. They equate to "I say it, I believe it, it is true" Unfourtunatly you offer no compelling facts/evidence/argument for me or anyone to accept your contentions.” I don’t seek your acceptance because im spitak@ sev chi darna, ko sevnel spital chi darna! I am just enjoying my typing conversation with a complete stranger and it takes away my boredom at work. Besides I am sure you have heard many discussions regarding this subject since you seem very overzealous about this. Yes at times I am. Its because of folks who foster this on us who believe differently. I don't imagine you can understand. I ussually don't bother - just somethimes it ticks me off. Blame Arshak. quote:Originally posted by 564312:“BTW - paganism pre-dates christainity by at least several hundred thousand years...(I don't see any crosses painted in Neandertal caves for instance...)” Adam, Eve and their offspring’s had a relationship with the Living God and Christ existed before being born on earth. Read Genesis carefully!I suggest that you read the Epic of Gilgamesh (that not only predates Genesis - but is the very text that the entire book of Genesis was derived from)...remember the Babylonian exile? Again claims of Adam & Eve, Chist eternal etc etc - no better then me believeing in Aliens walking among us and radio receptors in ones head. Why - beccause I say so. quote:Originally posted by 564312:“All of the Judeo-Christian tradition - male dominated - shepeard religions (religions of marauders - of nomads - anti - agriculture - anti equality - anti- women) - run contrary to the ways of Gaia - our Earth mother - our mothers - contrary to (true/ancient) Armenian tradition...they are abberations...so don't force your heresy on me!” Blah Blah Blah.. I hope you stop this thread because I am not forcing on you anything. You are without a clue. quote:Originally posted by 564312:God is pro equality. Fact - Marxism and Communism was derived from the Bible. Anti agriculture? Read all the genesis, read the story of Job before you read countless others. Anti women??? God has always regarded and is regarding woman as equal to man! Eve – how was she created? From the man’s rib if so she is equal to God and to man, besides look how beautiful woman is how could God create a human so beautiful without regarding her equal to God and to man. God did not put this difference between women and men. Men did it themselves!! God also says that in heaven there are no women or men. If God was anti women then God would have said “ooo superior men you will be kings in heaven and women will lick the ground that you walk on.” Doesn’t it say in the genesis “and because of her man will forget his family and will go after her” it seems she sounds pretty equal if not superior. And again throughout the Bible stories after stories of heroines and their achievements. You clearly misunderstand the fable of Cain & Able - so fundemtal - so telling... Additionally - yeah - women come from man rib - ha - sounds pretty equal to me. And Eve is portrayed as some villian - a betrayer who turns innocent man away from "God" - and how many times we see this in the Bible...etc Yes I see how Marxism & Communism stress the message, belief in, and worship of Christ....NOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
564312 Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 “Floods, pestilence, famine, crippled children, henious crimes (such as Genocide) - etc. Your God has his fun at our expense.” A natural evolution if we are corrupting the universe and working against the rules of nature this globe will produce more natural disasters. Crippled children? Why did God drop bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Or did God make some woman take so much crak that the child is born crippled. Who made landmines? No God is not having Fun God is crying. “Meanwhile he decrees that most anything we might wish to do (what is natural for us to do) that is fun is bad - and we are threatened with (further) punishment in hell. Your God is anti-human/humanity in most all respects...” What do you consider fun and natural that God considers bad?Someone rapes and murders a human, or a priest molests little boys, husband constantly beats his wife with no remorse or consciousness is fun and natural and must not be punished? Every human action has a consequence on other humans; a ripple effect. In the world there are laws of gravity and a force of positive or negative, so lets say if there is a spiritual world then some laws must apply to it. And if we accept the positive force then we cannot deny the negative.If a negative action is punished on this world so much more it will be in the eternal. Not God that will punish because hell does not belong to God it belongs to Satan.After all Science says that something unseen does not mean it is inexistent. “BTW, your 9/11 contentions speak much about yourself - concerning how gullible and accepting of (insubstantiated) myth you are...”Well I don't expect and I don't believe. I don't hate "Gods" exsistence because there is no such creature...do I hate the concept? No - I am indifferent. Do I hate people like you who think they know it all and that somehow I am a lesser human because I don't believe - yeah sure, bugs the hell out of me...pisses me off actually...particularly these consdesending statements and denying that you are putting other religions/beliefs down when in fact you are - knowingly or not...” Stop bombarding you are hurting me. No one is lesser if you think that about yourself then I am sorry. Belief does not make someone lesser or more human. Human values, human actions make a person less or more. “You completely misundertand my use of content. I am content to understand that I will never "know" the universe or understand creation etc - as it is clearly beyond my understanding. I am not rejecting knowledge/discovery - not at all - nor bettering myself - or wishing such for humanity. I just don't see the need to make up and believe in fairy stories. And in fact I often see that those who call themselves Christians/believers or such often shut out knowledge - because it does not fit within their prescribed framework for reality. Example being - not teaching evolution in the schools, rejecting our fossile record and much of scientific discovery. You don't need to be Catholic to be a moron apparently...” What you describe is a man made religion. In Bible it says the temples that you build I do not live there neither I desire them. But God is unending power, ideal and complete, an absolute force, peace, joy, love in every sense and to have the privilege to actually feel even a spec of that greatness is unbelievable. To seek God, to find that spiritual fulfillment has been in every human it is as old as time. I believe in evolution, and I do not reject the existence of dinosaurs. When God created the earth it says he created it in seven days. That is what you read and that is what they preach. But how long is seven days with God??? “You said that those without "God" are lost. I reject that and turn it about. Thjose who think that they have "God" are fools/fooled - IMO.” Ok Yes at times I am. Its because of folks who foster this on us who believe differently. I don't imagine you can understand. I ussually don't bother - just somethimes it ticks me off. Blame Arshak. Right. “I suggest that you read the Epic of Gilgamesh (that not only predates Genesis - but is the very text that the entire book of Genesis was derived from)...remember the Babylonian exile? Again claims of Adam & Eve, Chist eternal etc etc - no better then me believeing in Aliens walking among us and radio receptors in ones head. Why - beccause I say so. Faith in the Living God was before the written Bible. Not only in the epic of Gilgamesh you will find similarities but also so in many other religions. Aliens Aliens Aliens go join the Realiens that clame they cloned a baby. I hear they believe that only good looking woman must be privileged to conceive the Aliens by the Realien men. “You clearly misunderstand the fable of Cain & Able - so fundemtal - so telling.” First of all you were telling me that the Bible is anti women and anti agricultural what does Cain & Abel has to do with it? The story of Cain & Abel is.. Being born of Adam & Eve who tasted from the tree - consciousness (knowledge of good and evil) the brothers offered their sacrifice and not because God liked Abels meat better medium rare at that that he preferred Abel, but because God could see their heart. “Additionally - yeah - women come from man rib - ha - sounds pretty equal to me. And Eve is portrayed as some villian - a betrayer who turns innocent man away from "God" - and how many times we see this in the Bible...etc” yes. what is I is you and what is you is me. you must try to understand The Bible. if that was so then Bible depicts men as dumb and women more smart. “Yes I see how Marxism & Communism stress the message, belief in, and worship of Christ....NOT!” The concept of equality and commune, the brotherhood. Read the Acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 12345 - You seem to be making the argument that "God" is punishing wrongdoers by inflicting them with crippiled children and such - is this your argument? I see no need for a "God" fr humans to make moral judgements about what is in the common good and not to hurt others etc - people were making these type of decisions/rules etc long before any concept of a "God" to decreee them...I have no problem making these distinctions and I have no fear of punishment from "God" etc Cain & Able illustrates "Gods" preference/bias for sheapard (patrimonial) people (as the Jews were) over agricultural (matrimonial) people (those who tended to follow "pagan" type ways...who liked to party & celebrate the seasons etc - the ones whose deities Yaweh believers turned into deamons... Do you know anything at all about the Summarian beliefs? They were very clearly pantheists. Elohim were a group of Gods - and while they may have created mankind (genetic crossing of earth creatures/primates with themselves - they were clearly not creators of the universe. Additionally the lessons of the Gilgamesh epic were severly twisted in Genesis - for very specific reasons along the lines of the Cain & Abvle parable - reflecting patrimonial focus and the anal retentive - nasty (volcano) God that was Yaweh...Its not good enough to say that just because many religions share common elements this prooves Gad - what it prooves is that humans have very common lives and thuis supersticions and morals and explanations for certain things - abnd also that there has been much difusion of culture and cultural myth throughout the world from very early on... Yeah, Hitler was a Christian too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
564312 Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 You seem to be making the argument that "God" is punishing wrongdoers by inflicting them with crippiled children and such - is this your argument? TOOTHOOTyou don't agree with me, at least understand my responses not just glance over, you lost it. I see no need for a "God" fr humans to make moral judgements about what is in the common good and not to hurt others etc - people were making these type of decisions/rules etc long before any concept of a "God" to decreee them...I have no problem making these distinctions and I have no fear of punishment from "God" etc yes Consciousness is in everyone either is dead or alive. Humans are not herds they make decisions.But God exists just like your parents exist. You deny or love them it is your choice. Cain & Able illustrates "Gods" preference/bias for sheapard (patrimonial) people (as the Jews were) over agricultural (matrimonial) people (those who tended to follow "pagan" type ways...who liked to party & celebrate the seasons etc - the ones whose deities Yaweh believers turned into deamons... nevermind my explanation Do you know anything at all about the Summarian beliefs? They were very clearly pantheists. Elohim were a group of Gods - and while they may have created mankind (genetic crossing of earth creatures/primates with themselves - they were clearly not creators of the universe. Additionally the lessons of the Gilgamesh epic were severly twisted in Genesis - for very specific reasons along the lines of the Cain & Abvle parable - reflecting patrimonial focus and the anal retentive - nasty (volcano) God that was Yaweh...Its not good enough to say that just because many religions share common elements this prooves Gad - what it prooves is that humans have very common lives and thuis supersticions and morals and explanations for certain things - abnd also that there has been much difusion of culture and cultural myth throughout the world from very early on... Yeah, Hitler was a Christian too...[/QB] Ataturk was muslim what about Chingiz Khan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arshak Posted January 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Everybody, Let's just settle down and rest for a moment. Breath deeply two times, and exhale two times. We don't need to worry about what is said and not said. We are already good religious people since we were in communion for about 60 replies, and questions. Now what is left to do is come up with a good conclusion where everyone will be happy again, and of course agree. All I am asking is for a good agreement. I have to say I am happy. Now. We can stop just right here. I mean this is getting to complicated, now I can't understand what is going on. Plus you are writng too much, just keep it short. When you write too much, I can't understand anything. It seems like I am being pulled to the right and to the left at the same time. -------------------------------------------------------------Here is the new topic: Wouldn't it be great if you had $ 5,000,000 million dollars? Or 5,000,000 more. Just answer to these questions. 1. What would you do with it? 2. Would you share it with someone? 3. What priorities would you consider? 4. What would you want to do with it? 5. Would you give it to the homeless? ------------------------------------------------------------- † God bless the World. All I am thinking in my mind is world peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arshak Posted January 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 http://img.hebus.com/celebrites_f_photos/adriana_sklenarikova/adriana_sklenarikova_038.jpg Isn't she so pretty? Just look at her beautiful hair. [ January 08, 2003, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: Arshak ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Arshak:http://img.hebus.com/celebrites_f_photos/a...arikova_038.jpg Isn't she so pretty? Just look at her beautiful hair.Oooooo ... now we're talking! Seeing her makes me thank the LORD for being alive ---Edit: You may have to copy-paste that link in a new browser window to be able to see the image. [ January 08, 2003, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Sip ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Hallelujah!!!! I had to look 3-4 times to even notice her hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazrik Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Why Christ has to come for a thousand year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arshak Posted January 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2003 It's cold in the mornings. [ January 11, 2003, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Arshak ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arshak Posted February 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Isn't she so pretty? Just look at her beautiful hair. be nice !!! [ February 06, 2003, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: MosJan ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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