Guest Posted October 8, 2000 Report Share Posted October 8, 2000 "Yerani~ hogov aghqatnerin" Arajin angam vor lsetsi ays togher@ indz tvats te sxal em lsel ... yekeghetsum er ... pataragi jamanak. Yeka tun yev batselov Astvatsashunch@ gta togher@, vor ushadir kardam, texti mej ... gutse ayd depqum imast stanain? Bayts apardyun ein portsers. Edpes el ch@haskatsa te da inch imastov karogh er asvats linel. Jamanaki @ndatsqum moratsa ... yerevi @ndunetsi?!?!?! Aysor mi girq ei @ntertsum, Nina Hovsepyani hushern ein Sevaki masin. Artagrum em ayn togher@ voronq indz norits stipetsin mtatsel: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sevakn asats.-Voch mi kerp chem uzum havatal, vor Ktakaranum ayspisi togh karogh e linel. "Yerani hogov aghqatnerin":Batsatrets vor da Astvatsashnchi vogun dem e, aydpes hnaravor che vor lini, yev vor ayd "Yeranin" iren vaghuts e mtatanjel, bayts glux chi hanel:Anteghi mijamtutyamb nkatetsi.-Paruyr, hnaravor e, vor ays dzevov lini, aysinqn` hogov, yerani aghqatnerin:Mi vayrkyan lrets, mtatsets.-Che, aydpes chi karogh linel: Aveli jisht` aydpes che: U gnats gradarakits hanets ruseren Astvatsashunch@, batsets u nayets:-Che, aystegh el nuynn e grvats, bayts mek e, sa areghtsvats e:Mi angam ayd harts@ tvetsi Syunats temi naxkin arajnord Asoghik Srbazanin, yev na batsatrets vor aghqat bar@ petq e haskanal maqur, hogin der chaghavaghvats imastov, ur aveli heshtoren kareli e sermanel Cristoneakan gaghaparner@: Chem kartsum vor ays batsatrutyun@ tsanot ch@liner Sevakin: Aynuamenayniv ayd dzevakerpman@ na hamadzayn cher:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Spasum em dzer maknabanumnerin. Aneta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2000 Report Share Posted October 10, 2000 I think the explanation of this statement is something like this: “hogov harustner” don’t have much “room” left for the Lord. While, it is much easier for “hogov aghkat” to let Jesus in. I think this becomes especially apparent if it is seen in the context of what comes next from the mouth of Jesus himself – “Vorovhetev nrantsn e erknaiin arkaiutiune.” It may sound a little strange way of communicating this message, today, but we have to remember that the Armenian language has undergone significant evolution, and things that would’ve been understood differently centuries ago, have obtained somewhat different colorings today. Besides, the passage is a translation from Hebrew, and the adequacy of translation can be questioned (though I personally have no questions). For example, the Jews claim that the “Thy should not kill” commandment of Abraham has to be in fact translated as “Thy should not murder.” This delicate translation difference serves as a theological basis for supporting abortion, for example. [This message has been edited by MJ (edited October 10, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2000 Report Share Posted October 10, 2000 Hetakrkirer: ayn pahin yerp nkatetsi ays vernagire ("yerani hokov axkatnerin") inknstikyan poxarinetsi hoko voch axkatutyune, aysinkn liutyune, tarapankov. Indz misht tvatsele te vorpes anhat dzevavorvelu hamar petke amboxch hokov zgal yev inchu che xorhel ayn amene inch patahume mez het kyankum. Im kyanki amen mi pah yes aprelem yev hima mtatselov ayd ameni masin veraprumem amboxch hokov. Bayts yerp hokin aydkan ashxuzhe linum, aydkan li aprumnerov, galise mi pah yerp nor aprumnere darnumen anhnari; yerp ayn nor iradartsutsyunnere voronk garnanayin tsaxki tarmutyune piti unenain yev irents nerkayutyamp darmanein hokin chen karoxanum hoku ayt patvere katarel; yerp ayn hin hushere vor ashnan guynzguyn terevneri mech tsatkelu zhpite hokun piti parkevein merzhvumen hoku koxmits. Galise mi pah yerp hokin, aprumnerov li, ivitsaki chi linum goyatevelu. Tkaranume na, yerpemn nayev vaxtsanvum. Isk yete hokin aydkan aprumnerov, te urax yev te txur, chantsner, gutse yev goyatever. Yes hoku axkatutyun kartalov hishetsi ayn srputyune vorin voch tarapanke vochel burn xntsuyke chen karox dipchel. Ayskane mtatseluts, zgaluts yev embrneluts heto kartatsi Sunyats arachnorti batsatrutyune yev txretsi vor yes arachine chem linelu ays mitke artahayteluts!! Bayts vochinch, nael Sunyats vortie, inchpes yev yes Sunyats dustr. De, ayskane... aprumnerov tarvats, Gayane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2000 Report Share Posted October 10, 2000 MJ here's the lines from Sulamita's post quote:-Che, aydpes chi karogh linel: Aveli jisht` aydpes che: U gnats gradarakits hanets ruseren Astvatsashunch@, batsets u nayets:-Che, aystegh el nuynn e grvats, bayts mek e, sa areghtsvats e:So in Russian it means the same. How about in English? I haven't read it in English. Yes orinak karcum es aystex xos@ havatqi hzorutyan masine. Ete @ndunenq vor giteliq@ harstacnum e mardu voch miayn mitq@ ayl naev hogin apa kareli e hetavyal@ asel. Karcum em bolrois canote 'Mard inchqan shat e imanum aynqan qich e imanum' xosqer@. Aysinqn inchqan shat ban es imanum ayqan aveli shat harcer en arajanum. Ete xosq@ kroni masin e, apa sksum es verlucel amen mi xosq@, porcum es gtnel inch vor tramabanutyun asvaci mej. Ardyunqum du chunes aynqan hzor havat inch vor asenq hasarak mard@, vori hamar inch vor grvac e Surb Grqum entaka che verlucumneri.Aysinqn inchqan 'hogov axqat' e mard (inchqan ujex a nra havat@) aynqan aveli hnazandoren na khetevi patvirannerin. Aynqan aveli mot klini erknqi arqayutyan@.Sxalvac chem lini ete asem vor amenaujex havatq@ unen hasarak mardik (krtutyun chunecox). Berem mi orinak. Surb Qrqum asvum e vor arajin mardik erkri vra Adamn u Evan eyin voronq unecan erku tgha Kayen u Abel. Heto kardum enq vor nranq amusnacan harevan erkric bervac agchikneri het.(!!!) Harc 1 - inchpes karox eyin nranq arajin@ linel ete harevan erkrum el mardik ein aprum?Patasxan 1 ('hogov axqat' mard) - Chgitem! Chem uzum imanam.Patasxan 2 ('hogov harust' mard, verlucum) - ete @ndunenq vor Adamn u Evan arajin mardik eyin voronc mitq@ janachec Astvac-i gaxapar@, apa amen inch stacvum e normal. Nranq arajin Mardik eyin havatqi tesankyunov, vor@ chi bacarum vor karox eyin linel urish mardik (hetanos orinak).I mijayloc ays harcin jisht ays bacatrutyunn e talis mi voch qristoneakan kron. [This message has been edited by Garo (edited October 10, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2000 Report Share Posted October 10, 2000 Garo, It seems to me we both give the same interpretation to this phrase... So no need for checking how it sounds in English I am not the one who has though of this interpretation. Let me bring the following explanation: “Aghkat en hogov anonk vor li ev tsavagin gitaktsitsiune unin irents hogevorakan aghkatautian, irents hogvoin ankatarutian, bariki nvasutian vor ka amenois mecj, baroiakan chkavorutian vorun mech kan shat shater. Miain aghkatnere vor ktjanchnan te hiravi vor aghkat en ke tandjuin irents aghkatutiunen, ev zi ke tandjuin anov, ktjgnen elnel anke. Ev vorkan ktarbervin sut metsatunenen, kuir, ambartavan harustneren, vor irenk zirenk katareal kkartsen ev ankatarelagortseli, amenuin het kanonavor, Astsoi ev mardots shnorhkin mech, ev bartsranalu papag chen ezgar vasn zi kkartsin te bartsrunkn en ev erbek piti chharstanan vasn zi chen tesner irents anchapeli tshvarutiune. Hovhannes Papini Patmutiune Kristosi Targmanets Hair Arsen Ghazaros Ghazikian Mkhitareants Venetik, Surb Ghazar, 1926 “ [This message has been edited by MJ (edited October 10, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 quote:Aghkat en hogov anonk vor li ev tsavagin gitaktsitsiune unin irents hogevorakan aghkatautian, irents hogvoin ankatarutian, bariki nvasutian vor ka amenois mecj, baroiakan chkavorutian vorun mech kan shat shater. Karcem ays bacatrutyun@ aveli shat harcer e araj berum qanc te patasxanum e harci.Inch e nshanakum 'hogevorakan ankatarutyun, aghkatutyun'? U inchqanov yes haskaca 'hogov axqat@' lave nranov vor ir mej dzgtum ka krtelu ir hogin, dzgtum durs galu ayd vijakic. Bayc inchi hamar? Hogov harstanalu? Vor@ kheracni nranc Erknayin arqayutyunic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Garo, According to Christianity, the path to "Erknaiin arkaiutiun" goes through Jesus Christ. "Hogov aghkat" is more likely to choose that path than "hogov harust," who things there is nothing wrong with him/her. It is preached in the New Testament that even being a very righteous person is not enough to get to the Heavenly Kingdom. But just the faith in Jesus Christ is enough for this purpose - this is one of the primary differences between Judaism and Christianity. What on needs to do to get to the Kingdom is to repent and believe in God, and in Jesus Christ being the “door” of God A “hogov aghkat” mard is more likely to repent than the “harust,” because for "harust" his/her "harstutiun" is of high value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Uremn mer bacatrutyun@ vor 'hogov axqat' aveli shut nshanakum e havatqov ujex qanc te Syunats temi naxkin arajnord Asoghik Srbazani 'hogov maqur, chaghavaghvac'.Yes kuzenayi lsel urishneri karciq@ ays harci masin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Garo, I think, in fact, Suniats Arachnord has said almost the same thing - "ur aveli heshtoren kareli e sermanel Cristoneakan gaghaparner@," only he has said it in more secular way. Note that he is not talking about "Christoneakan havatk," i.e. Christian Faith, but "gaghaparner," i.e. Christian ideas No wonder P.S. By the way, isn't he the bishop that was jailed lately with corruption allegations? [This message has been edited by MJ (edited October 11, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2000 Report Share Posted October 13, 2000 Supporting dictionary: repent - "apashkharhel, aisinkn askharhits veranal, ashkharhik vaielkner@ ev gaitakghutiunner@ merzhel" The general meaning of the prefix "ap" or "apa" is usually that of a negation. Other examples are "apakaiunatsnel" - destabilize, "apakoghmnoroshel" - disorient, "apardiun" - with no results, etc. [This message has been edited by MJ (edited October 13, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2000 Report Share Posted October 13, 2000 Wonderful discussion Please do go on. Waiting Anxiously` Aneta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2000 Report Share Posted November 22, 2000 "Yerani~ hogov aghqatnerin" .... YERANI! migutse sa e anmahutyan gaghnig@(?!).... [This message has been edited by davit (edited November 22, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Ruzanna9 Posted May 26, 2001 Report Share Posted May 26, 2001 "Yerani hogov axkatneirn, vor nrantsn e yerknki tagavorutyun@. Yerani sgavornierin vor norank kmxitarven. Yerani hezerin vor norank kjarangen yerkir@. Yerani norants vor sovats yev tsarav en ardarutyuan vor norank kkshtanan. Yrani norants vor srtov makur en vor norank Astsun ktesnen... Matyevos 5:3-9öK, yete hartser unek haykakan Targmanutyan masin, yerevi arden kgitenak vor Hyeren Astvatsashunch@ hamarvum e bolor Targmanutyunneri TAGUHIN. yev heto, Arajin hertin yerevi ogtakar klini hishel vor Hisus@ misht araknerov er xosum mardkants het. Yerkrordn el ardyok chek mtatsel te inchu es amen baner@ chen grvats Hin Ktakarani mej? Vorovhetyev yerb vor Hisus@ yekav, ir xachelutyunits, mahits yev harutyunits heto amen inch poxvets.. El mardik hin orenknerov chpiti sharjven ayl prkutyun gtnen Hisusi mijotsov. Ays vichakner@ vor Hisus@ nkaragrume tsuyts en talis ayn vichakner@ vor mardik ein ir galustits araj, bayts kanzi vor ink@ yekav arden ayd amen@ poxvets. Kani der Kristonyaner@ der hla Khristonya chein, ashxarhi mej nrank HOgov Axkat ein. Bayts yerb vor Hisusin, Astson @ndunum en irents srteri mej nrank arden harstatsan yev yerknayin arkayutyun@ jarangetsin. Ays Xosker@ uxxvats en ayn mardkants oveker arden chanachum en Astsun yev irents pargyevner@ stanalu en dra hamar. Ashxarhi vra chi nshanakum vor du piti jaranges Yerknayin Arkayutyun@ arants haskanalu te da inch e, ayl piti du zgas unenas Yerknayin Tagavorutyun ko srtum. Du piti zgas ayd xaxaxutyunn u ser@, hangstutyun@ vor@ piti yerknkum zgas. Ays xosker@ uxxvats en Hogyevornerin, Kristonyanerin, vorovhetyev nrank karox en apatsutsel te Hisusi xosker inchpes en katarvel irents srteri yev kyankeri mej. Kareli nayev ushadrutyun dardznel ayn hangamankin vor ays bolor vichakner@ voch te fizikakan en ayl hogekan vichakner vor mardik zgum en irents mej.So duk arden vorosh chapov chist uxu vra eik. Hogov axkat chi nshanakum arants zgatsmunkneri kam, tuyl tkar bayts voch liakatar vorovhetyev Hisusi sern u prkutyan huys@ chunen srti mej. Voch vok chi karox haskanal ays vichak@ yete nrank chen zgatsel Astso uji zorutyunn u nra huys@, sern u hangstutyun@ vor menk zgum enk Hisusi xoski nerkayutyan mijotsov. .... ANd one more thing you know how it says '""yerani srtov makurnerin vor nrank ktesnen AStsun"" Ays amen@ irakanapes katarvum en Kristonyaneri mej, vorovhetyev shat shatern en tesel Hisusin, yev bolors el gitenk vor Hisusn Astvats e vorovhetyev , Hayr@, Vordin, Yev Surb Hogin mek en. Gitem vor mardkants hamar djvar e havatal ASTSUN vorovhetyev nrank chen karox tesnel ASTSUN, kam kartsum en te Astvats inch vor mi brnakal e, bayts yete AStvatsashunch@ kardak, yev yerb vor haskanak, ayn jamank ktesnek AStso imastutyunn u zorutyun@. Ayskan@ arayjsm, Yes andzamb vorpes Christonya, havatum Astsun, Hisusin yev Surb Hogun yev gitem vor Hisusi shnorkov prkvats em... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garo Posted May 27, 2001 Report Share Posted May 27, 2001 quote:Hogov axkat chi nshanakum arants zgatsmunkneri kam, tuyl tkar bayts voch liakatar vorovhetyev Hisusi sern u prkutyan huys@ chunen srti mej. Ruzana jan indz tvuma jisht ches meknabanum. Qo aselov hogov axqat nshanakuma 'der Hisusi sern u prkutyan huys@ srti mej chunecox'. Ayd depqum inchu erani nranc kam inchu e nranc@ ernayin arqayutun@ ete ayd huys@ ev havat@ chunen? Mek urish orinak quote:Bayts yerb vor Hisusin, Astson @ndunum en irents srteri mej nrank arden harstatsan yev yerknayin arkayutyun@ jarangetsin. Ays Xosker@ uxxvats en ayn mardkants oveker arden chanachum en Astsun yev irents pargyevner@ stanalu en dra hamarQo asacic aveli shut piti hetever vor hogov harustnerin e erknayin arqayutyun@. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted May 27, 2001 Report Share Posted May 27, 2001 Just bringing the thread to the forefront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 Im gardzikov, ''Yerani Hokiov Aghkadneroun''-u bedk e hasgunal voch to niutagan ayl hokegan snounti aroumov. Inchbes aghkadu gu pundre hats yev harusdoutiun, aytbes al hokiyov aghkadneru gu pundren hokegan snount, imasdoutiun yev asdvadzayin orhnoutiun. Yerani anonts vor gu kidagtsin irents nerkin aghkadoutian ou ayt oughghtiamp gu laren irents gamkn ou pundurdouku ays gyankin mech...anonk en vor bidi jaranken Yergirn ou arjananan Arkayoutian... ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffiaharonian Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 Hamatsayn em Dragonin dvatz megnapanoutian. Inchbes tadaranin mech, hokvov hivantneroun tadaran@ aveli meghm e yev g@ kouta. Hokvov ou mdayin tsevov zoravorner@ , badtjarapanoutioun chounin kortzatz meghkeroun hamar, sagayn hokvov dgarner@ g@ kdnan Asdoutzo ktoutioun@ yev nerogamidoutioun@.Ouremn harts@ ayn e te , kidaktsapar gam ankidaktsapar g@ korzouvi meghk@. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffiaharonian Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 So, doesn't everything end up to Judgement Day? The rest are food for thinking and discovering the easy/hard path (if there is such a path ) to God . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 I just want to remind everybody that the testimonial passage subject to interpretations doesn't say "Yearni Surb Hogov Akhkatnerin." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 Hos meghki yev anmeghoutian,Skhali gam shidagi harts chga, sireli Raffi, ayl ga kidoutian yev ankidoutian mech abrelou harts. Hokiyov gam mdayin hivantneru chem gardzer vor Tadasdani arach bidi ganknin. Anonk ourish jagadakir bidi ounenan anbayman, kani vor teri en, angarogh en irents jagadakiru voroshelou. Hartsu KIDOUTIAN harts e, nerkin lousavorman yev tebi Asdvadzayin oujer tsukdoumi harts e, voch aveli, voch bagas. Meg khoskov` inchbes garjevores kezi drvadz ays gyanku??? Badaskhane` urakanchiuris abradz gyankn e, tsevov ou khorkov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 Charachar skhalvoum es MJ jan. Avedaranoum krvadz ga ''yerani~ hokov aghkadnerin'' miayn. ''Surb'' paru dou es avelatsrel, dra hamar el badjvelou es... Ourakh tjoghk kezi apperr! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 May I suggest you to read my posting, again, Dragon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted May 29, 2001 Report Share Posted May 29, 2001 Forgive me my friend for ''blind''... Actually I was drunk...celebrating 20th anniverssary for our first meeting...just two of us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted May 29, 2001 Report Share Posted May 29, 2001 hogov aghqatnerin chgitem, bayts hogov tkhmarnerin petk chi yerani tal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted May 30, 2001 Report Share Posted May 30, 2001 ''Hoqov dkhmar''... hedakurkir paragabagtsoutiun...teh mi kich usbasir, denam Ajarianu inch patsatroutiun a dalis sran... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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