Artifact May Be Earliest Relating to Existence of Jesus

[khodja]

Eduard,

 

Vartan Mankonian was DESCENDED partially from one of two Chinese noblemen who were banished to Armenia and intermarried with the Armenian women. They came there highly educated and with a lot of wealth some 200 years before Vartan Mamigonian was born.

 

As for the Jews in Anatolia, the Armenians did not kill them, they assimilated them. When the Byzantines began to persecute the Jews in the 4th century many escaped their fate by adhering to a Christian faith that at that time was not infiltrated with pagan beliefs namely the Gregorian Church.

[-e-]

And that is why you hate the armenians, huh? In your early remarks, you said that you were harassed by your armenian wife, and that is why your brother was married to a jew. In fact, you even hate the armenian faith on God. You claimed to be a follower of some asian religion, [for which i could care less]...but the comments you make about the armenians and their faith, shows how much you hate everything that is associated with the name armenia/armenian. You even said lets close all the armenian churches and let the armenian renaissance began. You know very well that the church is the only armenian institution that has survivied the genocide and the attacks made by the zionist. You know very well that the church was the only institution that protected us from assimilation. You claim that the fight for the recognition of the genocide is the only thing that unites the armenains. Without having a shame, you lie about the well documented facts about Vardan Mamikonian. You say what the turks and their zionist masters say. You aim to rewrite the armenian history.

 

Du minchev angam hayeren grel, kardal chgites. Ev ays ameni het miasin, pordzum es atelutyun sermanel jogovrdi mej handep irentc inqnutyun@. Amot qez.

[-e-]

ha Mos jan. asenq jisht es asum:) sran lurj @ndunel@ nuynn a inch vor mi ayl molorkayini het xosal@

[MosJan]

Edward jan etqan lrjoren mi @enduni es mardun

 

Movses

[Guest Fadi]

Hagarag.

 

You said in one of your posts that James was the twin of Jesus, as much as I knowwwwwwwwwww, they were 4 brothers, and James was the second one, and Jesus was the oldest brother and had no twin, in fact the believe of the Virginity of Marie, was that she was virgin when she infanted Jesus, and that the other children she had, she had them by natural procreation. The question is, how do you know that James was Jesus twin, and second how do you know the ryths of Europeans sects of Jesus blood lineage had anything to do with real blood lineage, rather then totemic rytuals, of blood, based on the last fest.

 

I would like to say first, that I am not a believer, but I still believe that the history of Jesus, and the moral behind that is very interesting, the person that die for his conviction etc... like the Platonian history of Socrates that left of his own life for his conviction, or Boudah legend of trowing himself from a mountain etc...

 

I am really interested concerning the philosophy behind those people that left no writen evidences, Socrates is known from Platon, Jesus from the writers of the new testament, boudha as the philosophy behind his beliefs, from his followers etc... So I am very much interested to know more from their lifes then what has been writen about them, this is why I ask you some evidences concerning your assertions.

[khodja]

Domino,

 

There are recently unearthed texts from the first century which not only refer extensively to Jesus and those around him but clearly state that Mary Magdalene was his mate. There is also a later first version of a compiled Bible found in a sealed room at St. Catherine's Monstery in the Sinai which veers somewhat form traditional Christian beliefs. As for the geneology of Jesus' future family, it is compiled in a lengthy book by a meticulous geneologist who is the true heir to the British throne and the heir to the Scottish throne. You do realize that the present royals of England are German usurpers whose real name is not Windsor?

[khodja]

Eduard,

 

You are throwing about mistruths. It was never stated to close down the Armenian Churches for the Armenian Renaissance to begin, but for the leaders of the church to become more progressive and more tolerant. You are foaming at the mouth and therefore do not remember things very clearly.

[khodja]

Eduard,

 

My remarks about Vartan Mamigonian's lineage comes right from an article written by eminent Armenian historian Robert Bedrosian. So please stop foaming at the mouth.

[-e-]

Eminent Armenian historian Robert Bedrosian??? Who is Robert Bedrosian, where did he get the story from-and why Robert Bedrosian? Do you at least know who the Mamikonians were? Did you ever read Khorenatci?

[-e-]

You mean the leaders to become more tolerant??? What exactly you mean to become more tolerant? You don't expect to preach your religion in their church, do you? Do you in fact know any other tolerant institution than the Armenian Apostolic Church? Did they ever blackmail, or forced anyone to do anything against their will?

 

[ November 17, 2002, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Eduard Markosyan ]

[khodja]

I know Movses VERY well. I have gone beyond these traditional Armenian texts to read the histories of other culutres vis-a-vis the Armenians. Did you know that the Bagratunis were Jews, eh Eduard?

[khodja]

You insult me Eduard. Of course,I know who the Mamikonians were, sitting at the side of many Armenian kings, and Vartan saved Armenia's Christianity from the Persians.

[-e-]

h: I know Movses VERY well.

 

so why Robert Bogosian and not Khorenatci? In fact, what do you know about Khorenatci and his works?

 

h:I have gone beyond these traditional Armenian texts

 

you don't mean to say the traditional texts are made of lies or they are useless, do you?

 

h:to read the histories of other cultures vis-a-vis the Armenians

 

and what have you found there?

 

h:Did you know the the Bagratunis were Jews

 

i know that the Bagratunis were part jews. I also know that some Byzantine royal families were Armenians? Does it in any way prove that Mamikonians were Chinese?

[-e-]

h: You insult me Eduard

 

you don't mean to play a victim, do you?

 

h:Of course, I know who the Mamikonians were

 

for a third time. Who were the Mamikonians? What does Korenatci or any other none armenians say about them?

 

h: sitting at the side of many Armenain kings,

 

many armenian kings?

 

h:and Vartan saved Armenia's Christianity from the Persians.

 

Vardan was a general and he did not save the Armenia's Christianity. Among with 60,000 other armenains, he fought against the Zoroastrians. In fact, when Vardan was planning to move to the world of Helens, his family forced him to stay and fight the Zoroastrians-did you know that?

[khodja]

Eduard you are acting like a typical Armenian, ONE-UPMANSHIP! Nothing I stated was untrue, just not specific. I was around you traditional Armenians all my life. I refuse to play your silly little game of one-upmanship.

[-e-]

thank you for speaking your mind. i have nothing more to add

 

take care

[gamavor]

Eduard,

 

Hagarag is a Jew. I should say very lonely Jew. In order to make himself comfortable with the Idea he comes up from time to time with very "interesting" theories about the origin of the Armenians, Armenian Church, Armenian-turkish friendship, the offspring of Christ, (undoubtedly he is probably one of them), Vartan the Kung-Fu Armenian and God knows what else.

Not surpassingly whoever new comes to the Forum, first thing to do is to pick on him - innocently of course.

[khodja]

If I didn't fear that you would do me harm, I would meet with you, show you my background and you would clearly see that I am an Armenian. At that point, you and your kind would see me as a aberration which must be eliminated at all cost.

 

Only a small percentage of American-born Armenians of my generation are more Armenian than I. I not only speak the language but have read hundreds of books on the subject, but much of the specifics are now forgotten.

[-e-]

gamavor, he was asked to prove his point which he not only failed to do-he even started to call me names(not that there is something wrong with being a typical armenian...i just don't appreciate the position he holds). i am sure he is old enough to understand his own mistakes. he could have been nice enough and apologize(like i did to T-bark), but he has chosen not to-and that is his problem.

[khodja]

Eduard,

 

Just a short 10 minute ride on the freeway from your home in Van Nuys is the extensive collection of the Armenian Studies program at UCLA, housed in the library there. Please do not treat me like an elementary school child and grill me on what I know and do not know about Armenian history. You have studied the standard texts. I have gone beyond these to expose our about our leaders. Every culture has it's myths which should be scrutinized.

[-e-]

hagarag, if i look for something, i know where to find it. vn is not where i am, and saying the same thing over and over will not change the facts. we all know what the truth is-and the truth is what you and some people from some interest groups are not willing to accept.

 

unless you are willing to prove your point, i see no reason to continue this conversation-PERIOD-

[564312]

Hagarag ete aydkan shat ban gites urmen nayev petk e imanac vor Noyi Tapan@ Hayastanum e Kangnel- U voch te Hayeri mej Hreai aryun ka bayc Hreanern en Hayeric sksvel... ha ba?

[khodja]

Hyerenes shad mortzerem, menag hasketza hye aryuni masin ge khosis. Hye yev Heria. Kristonia Herianereh oor en aysor? Hye yeghetzi gertan yev chen keder vor Heria en.

[joseph]

Hgarag how many jews were living in anatolia when the Armenians came ten thousends , hundred thousends , a milion . and how long it took the Armenians to assimilate them , and is there any other place that the jews were assimilated with other nations , and what that tells you , that the Armenian charector was stronger than the jewish , and the hitits and the urartians , and who els i dont know ,one thing i know that we survived how many thousends of years by being ARMENIANS NOT JEWS , if you feel more comfertble being a jew good for you but stope shoving your jewism in our throat , and stop pulling your hair its not going to help you .