BEIJING 2008

[nairi]

PS. Armenia should also consider moving, besides the primitive weight lifting, wrestling, boxing etc. to the more noble sports like gymnastics, swimming, synchronized swimming(water ballet, Swan Lake), diving etc. Not to forget Igor TerOhanessian (ՏէրՀովհաննիսյան)the broad jumper.

 

Yes, yes, yes!!! And figure skating in the winter sports. They already have the music and the coaches. All we need now are skaters!

[DominO123]

We all know that our weightlifters are on dope: another one of the legacies of the Soviet Union.

 

Being on dope has no signification anymore, human growth hormone, recombined LH, epitestosterone (hiding agent) etc.

 

I am personally against drug test, they should run health tests not drug tests. Drug test advantage the West particularly the US, where technology is available. Modern athletes are technologically doped (training with the best sport doctors, or swimming dress worked by NASA etc.) or the uses of substances which will never be detected because they are bioidentical to normal hormones etc.

 

Insteed substances should be tested and made available to any athletes who wish to take them. Drug is part of professional sport and no one can do anything about it. Think of as simple as autotransfusion, when an athlete keep his own blood to be tranfused during competition etc. There are many many ways to cheat. Drug control actually is even more unjust, because now only a limited number of athletes can cheat while others will be catched.

Edited August 12, 2008 by DominO

[vava]

Being on dope has no signification anymore, human growth hormone, recombined LH, epitestosterone (hiding agent) etc.

 

I am personally against drug test, they should run health tests not drug tests. Drug test advantage the West particularly the US, where technology is available. Modern athletes are technologically doped (training with the best sport doctors, or swimming dress worked by NASA etc.) or the uses of substances which will never be detected because they are bioidentical to normal hormones etc.

 

Insteed substances should be tested and made available to any athletes who wish to take them. Drug is part of professional sport and no one can do anything about it. Think of as simple as autotransfusion, when an athlete keep his own blood to be tranfused during competition etc. There are many many ways to cheat. Drug control actually is even more unjust, because now only a limited number of athletes can cheat while others will be catched.

 

And so where do you draw the line? There will always be newer "enhancement" technologies - is it all "part" of the competition? I would hope not... We know now that the East German swimmers who cleaned up the medals in '76 were doped. They won, kept their medals (well, some chose to return them) and 20 odd years later they have beards & a slew of health problems including liver cancer, organ damage, psychological defects, hormonal changes and infertility. Ben Johnson's gold in '88 was turned over to American Carl Lewis, also a doper. But is this fair? Isn't it just the easy was out to say "Let's even the playing field" and let everyone cheat? It still won't be equal - there will be better, more expensive drugs, better trained physicians etc. - the only winners will be those who supply the enhancement. The athletes will be left behind, along with their health.

 

Drug testing seems to be always behind the curve, so it's not an ideal solution - but it seems to me that the institutions and those who fund amateur sport will (long-term) disassociate themselves if doping/cheating continues.

 

 

[Arpa]

Nowadays specimens must be preserved for a minimum of 8 years, waiting for the next inevestigative technology.

And, as Vava above shows how many were found to have been doped after so many years .

If only we had the technology to see how the original olympians were doped, to see what they were smoking or ingesting.

If, today our athletes were to compete like the original olympians, in their "birthday suits', read "nude", they would be arrested, remanded to a prison or, in the least to an insane asylum.

Of course, today we wear "laser" swim suits and string bras to cover our nipples and peepees, not much else.

Who said that athletes must wear thick fleece/մուշտակ overcoats? Maybe, if the Summer Olympics were held in the winter in Siberia!!

Edited August 12, 2008 by Arpa

[Harut]

on the happier note, armenia won 2 bronze medals yesterday...

[vava]

on the happier note, armenia won 2 bronze medals yesterday...

2?? Great news. One of them was Roman Amoyan - who won bronze in the 55kg Wrestling event. For those interested, Russia won gold, and Azerbaboonistan won the silver...

[Arpa]

on the happier note, armenia won 2 bronze medals yesterday...

Yes!! http://www.nbcolympics.com/countries/count...ists/index.html

NBC stinks! They don't show anything that US team is not involved in, even if it is more than scratching ones' crotch!

They will show us three hours of boring bitch, :oops:"beach vollybal", but they will not show us real volleyball. Lest the Cubans or the Egyptians rule.

They may also show us how, see 2004 Athens Olympics, a 40 kg Bulgarian furk midget lifted 80 kgs.

There must be another way to watch the whole thing.

Where is hitler?

Where was he when the American "negro" Jessie Owens blew his blond and blue eyed "arian" myth'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens

Edited August 12, 2008 by Arpa

[vava]

NBC stinks! They don't show anything that US team is not involved in, even if it is more than scratching ones' crotch!

There must be another way to watch the whole thing.

 

CBC.ca - but that won't guarantee that you'll see Armenians...

Tigran Gevorg MARTIROSYAN won the other Medal for Armenia in Weightlifting 62-69kg class.

[DominO123]

And so where do you draw the line? There will always be newer "enhancement" technologies - is it all "part" of the competition? I would hope not... We know now that the East German swimmers who cleaned up the medals in '76 were doped. They won, kept their medals (well, some chose to return them) and 20 odd years later they have beards & a slew of health problems including liver cancer, organ damage, psychological defects, hormonal changes and infertility. Ben Johnson's gold in '88 was turned over to American Carl Lewis, also a doper. But is this fair? Isn't it just the easy was out to say "Let's even the playing field" and let everyone cheat? It still won't be equal - there will be better, more expensive drugs, better trained physicians etc. - the only winners will be those who supply the enhancement. The athletes will be left behind, along with their health.

 

Drug testing seems to be always behind the curve, so it's not an ideal solution - but it seems to me that the institutions and those who fund amateur sport will (long-term) disassociate themselves if doping/cheating continues.

 

Vava, it's not only about being behind the curve, but we already know that some enhancing drugs will never be detected, so athletes can give thir blood for the 8 years 'super testing.'

 

I am a little unconfortable about the cheating 'thing', as this suggest that there could be anything about having equal rights in those sports, while we know that eugenism is already practiced in sport for decates. Is this not cheating? Everyone does not have the same amount of testosterone and other hormones, they do not have the same feet size etc. What's really fair?

 

Insteed of fighting to keep sport clean from enhancing drugs, those drugs should be better controlled not banished, with a given dosage etc. We know for instance that some drugs will cut the advantage of using other drugs, particularly those we know could never be detected. Tests should be run on the limits of hormones like they are done in the case of hemoglobin, insteed of the substance used.

[vava]

Vava, it's not only about being behind the curve, but we already know that some enhancing drugs will never be detected, so athletes can give thir blood for the 8 years 'super testing.'

 

I am a little unconfortable about the cheating 'thing', as this suggest that there could be anything about having equal rights in those sports, while we know that eugenism is already practiced in sport for decates. Is this not cheating? Everyone does not have the same amount of testosterone and other hormones, they do not have the same feet size etc. What's really fair?

 

Insteed of fighting to keep sport clean from enhancing drugs, those drugs should be better controlled not banished, with a given dosage etc. We know for instance that some drugs will cut the advantage of using other drugs, particularly those we know could never be detected. Tests should be run on the limits of hormones like they are done in the case of hemoglobin, insteed of the substance used.

 

Height, weight, shoe size are part of the natural variances in an individual. Injecting chemicals and artificially isolated hormones is wholly unnatural, and when used for performance enhancement is cheating. You cannot draw the same parallels between between an optimized exercise and diet regimen and the use of steroids & growth hormones.

 

I don't think you can "control" these drugs. How would you control dosages, for example? It would be impossible to determine if someone was using higher than permitted levels... I agree with your last point, however the possibility will remain that someone innocent may get caught as a result of abnormal levels of some naturally occurring hormone/chemical.

[DominO123]

Height, weight, shoe size are part of the natural variances in an individual. Injecting chemicals and artificially isolated hormones is wholly unnatural, and when used for performance enhancement is cheating. You cannot draw the same parallels between between an optimized exercise and diet regimen and the use of steroids & growth hormones.

 

I don't think you can "control" these drugs. How would you control dosages, for example? It would be impossible to determine if someone was using higher than permitted levels... I agree with your last point, however the possibility will remain that someone innocent may get caught as a result of abnormal levels of some naturally occurring hormone/chemical.

 

This is where I draw the line. You are saying artificial vs natural, I am saying no matter if it is natural or 'artificial' they should have similar chances.

 

What is an optimized excercise? Sport doctors specialising on cell metabolism, with the right combination to maximize the potential of the athletes? What is a diet regiment? Some zinc formulations believed to rise testosterone levels? Is hypobaric chambers 'optimized' excercise? And what is autotransfusion? What about increaing LH and FSH hormones with recombined human 'forms', we aren't touching steroids there, are we?

 

They should contrate on the level of those hormones in the blood rather than how those levels were achieved. Giving a defined limit, also making controlled substances that can be used to achieve those limits available to those athletes.

 

There should be controls on the health statue of the athletes rather than what they are taking, too much of anything will have impacts on the liver, kidneys etc. and mesuring health statues like a strict range for creatinine etc. are better measure because those parametters are influenced when someone takes a substance.

 

This anti-drug hunting will push further the technology to find better substances which will not be detected, sport medecine (which can also be considered as a form of doping) or so called diets etc..., and in this game sport becomes a multi-million dollar industry it is now, where to excell you have to be an American or have a group behind you who has access to all this as well as investors.

[Zartonk]

We have two bronze medals!

 

Congratulations to Roman Amoyan (Greco-Roman, 55 kg) and Tigran Gevorq Martirosyan (Weightlifting, 96 kg).

 

Let's hope more is on the way

[nairi]

NBC stinks! They don't show anything that US team is not involved in, even if it is more than scratching ones' crotch!

 

http://os2008.nos.nl/live/index/kanaal/ in case cbc.ca doesn't work, but it's live, so you'll have to get up on time to watch the games.. Ladies water polo again tomorrow, Holland-Greece (keep an eye out for No. 4).

 

[Armenak]

A certain Armen Vardanyan (competing for Ukraine) just beat Azeri favorite Farid Mansurov at Greco-Roman wrestling.

 

A certain Varteres Samourgachev (a lawyer by profession, competing for Russia) will take on Azeri Ilgar Abdulov to reach the quarterfinals of the men's Greco-Roman 74 kg. Arsen Julfalakyan (competing for Armenia!) will take on Hungarian Peter Bacsi to reach the same position!

 

Good luck to all of them (especially Julfalakyan!).

[vava]

Ladies water polo again tomorrow, Holland-Greece (keep an eye out for No. 4).

 

Hmmm... any relation?

[vava]

This is where I draw the line. You are saying artificial vs natural, I am saying no matter if it is natural or 'artificial' they should have similar chances.

I'm saying that an open door policy in this regard will make it impossible to have "similar chances". Unfortunately neither my idealogical approach, nor your pragmatic approach seem to address the inherent problems of the current situation.

 

What is an optimized excercise? Sport doctors specialising on cell metabolism, with the right combination to maximize the potential of the athletes? What is a diet regiment? Some zinc formulations believed to rise testosterone levels? Is hypobaric chambers 'optimized' exercise? And what is autotransfusion? What about increaing LH and FSH hormones with recombined human 'forms', we aren't touching steroids there, are we?

They should contrate on the level of those hormones in the blood rather than how those levels were achieved. Giving a defined limit, also making controlled substances that can be used to achieve those limits available to those athletes.

 

There should be controls on the health statue of the athletes rather than what they are taking, too much of anything will have impacts on the liver, kidneys etc. and mesuring health statues like a strict range for creatinine etc. are better measure because those parametters are influenced when someone takes a substance.

I agree that some methods of enhancement are borderline. Your suggestions could possibly be a solution for a short while, but there will always be newer methods devised to work around any controls that are out in place. What we're losing long term is the essence of competition and the excitement of sport. Again, unfortunate.

 

This anti-drug hunting will push further the technology to find better substances which will not be detected, sport medecine (which can also be considered as a form of doping) or so called diets etc..., and in this game sport becomes a multi-million dollar industry it is now, where to excell you have to be an American or have a group behind you who has access to all this as well as investors.

I think we're headed in that direction (of not already there) - and that would still be the case without the "drug hunting". Bottom line is that cheating attitudes have to change; we are raising generation after generation of cheaters. How often have you heard a phrase like "Do whatever it takes to win"? Well, the athletes are doing exactly that. Should we be surprised? Attitudinal change has to come from within, perhaps education is a start - perhaps it's all just gobbledygook.

 

 

[nairi]

Hmmm... any relation?

 

Yes. Cousin.

[shiner]

They are showing Gevorg Davtyan the weightlifter on MSNBC.

[Arpa]

I saw several “ian-yan” names in the list of athletes, beside the Team Armenia, all the way from Ukraine to Germany to Netherlands.

Nairi, I also saw your Cousin Biurakn H, how about you list them??

http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlet.../bio/index.html

An ancient legacy

Armenian prowess at the Olympics can be traced to antiquity. King Trdat is said to have won the 265th Olympic Games in wrestling, and Prince Varazdat, who would later become king, was the last known victor of the ancient Olympic Games. He was the boxing champion of the 291st games, in the year 385 or 369 B.C.E.

In the below list we don’t see Vladimir Enkibarian(Yengibarian, b. Yerevan 1932) Boxing Gold Melbourne 1956; See his picture here;

http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArti...090&lng=eng

http://middleeast.about.com/od/countriesmz...080801a.htm?p=1

Middle East Issues

Your Middle East Guide to the 2008 Beijing Olympics: Armenia

Armenia’s athletes, games and Olympic history

By Pierre Tristam, About.com



Armenia

Aug 2 2008

Armenia's Olympic History

First time represented at Summer Olympics: 1996

Gold medals won: 1

Silver: 1

Bronze: 1

Athletes at the 2008 Beijing Olympics: 24

Medals at 2008 Olympics:

The Olympic Playbook on Armenia

The 2008 Olympics will mark the fourth time Armenia will be represented at the Summer Olympics. Armenian athletes, of course, have long been part of the Olympic tradition, but under other banners: They were part of the former Soviet Union's "Unified Team" in 1992. Before that, they competed, however grudgingly at times, as Soviet citizens representing the USSR.

Among Armenia's great Olympians during the Soviet era: Igor Ter-Ovanesyan (long jump bronze medalist in 1960 and 1964), Albert Azaryan (a three-time gymnastics gold medalist, including two medals in 1956 and one in 1960) and Igor Novikov, winner of two golds and two silvers in gymnastics and pentathlon between 1956 and 1964.

In 1996, the first time Armenia represented itself at the summer games, the tiny central Asian country sent 32 athletes to Atlanta. Armen Nazaryan won the nation's lone gold medal then and since in Greco-Roman wrestling, while Armen Mkrtchyan got a silver in freestyle wrestling.

At the Sydney games in 2004, Armenia won just a bronze thanks to Arsen Melikyan, in weightlifting. Ashot Danielyan got a bronze in weightlifting too, heavyweight division, but then tested positive for steroids, and on the last day of competition, was stripped of his medal.

Armenia’s Athletes at the 2008 Beijing Olympics

Boxing

Hovhannes Danielyan

Andranik Hakobyan

Eduard Hambardzumyan

Hrachik Javakhyan

Judo

Hovhannes Davtyan

Armen Nazaryan

Shooting

Norayr Bakhtamyan

Swimming

Mikayel Koloyan

Track & Field/Athletics

Melik Janoyan

Ani Khachikyan

Weightlifting

Meline Daluzyan

Gevorg Davtyan

Edgar Gevorgyan

Ara Khachatryan

Hripsime Khurshudyan

Tigran Martirosyan

Wrestling

Arman Adikyan

Roman Amoyan

Martin Berberyan

Denis Forov

Arsen Julfalakyan

Suren Markosyan

Karen Mnatsakanyan

Yuri Patrikeyev

Harutyun Yenokyan

===

Beside the Team Armenia, here are some more “ian-yan“s. I am sure there are more!

I wish I could find who, it was an Armenian, replaced John Connolly of Harvard when he was denied a visa to the 1896 (?) Olympics.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Arpa

[vava]

Yes. Cousin.

 

Awesome! I haven't seen any coverage of the water polo yet but I'll keep my eyes peeled.

[nairi]

Here she is:

 

On the bench (no. 4):

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nairih/OGBiurakn2.jpg

 

In action:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nairih/OGBiurakn4.jpg

 

 

 

[nairi]

I saw several “ian-yan” names in the list of athletes, beside the Team Armenia, all the way from Ukraine to Germany to Netherlands.

Nairi, I also saw your Cousin Biurakn H, how about you list them??

 

That's way too many to go through! If we each took a letter, it'd be doable.

 

I caught another boxer, boxing for Russia. I think it was Arutiunyan, but I might be wrong.

[nairi]

I saw several “ian-yan” names in the list of athletes, beside the Team Armenia, all the way from Ukraine to Germany to Netherlands.

Nairi, I also saw your Cousin Biurakn H, how about you list them??

http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlet.../bio/index.html

 

Hmm, the date of birth is wrong..

 

Here's the correct bio: http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/.../4/218024.shtml

[nairi]

I saw several “ian-yan” names in the list of athletes, beside the Team Armenia, all the way from Ukraine to Germany to Netherlands.

Nairi, I also saw your Cousin Biurakn H, how about you list them??

 

Okay, I did A. I'll leave B to someone else.

 

 

Ara Abrahamian - Wrestling - Sweden

 

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/.../1/231301.shtml

 

Aprahamian - Judo - Uruguay

 

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/...2/8003362.shtml

 

Samvel Aslanian - Handball - Russia

 

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/.../5/201135.shtml

 

Erdzhanik Avetisyan - Shooting - Russia

 

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/.../8/200118.shtml

 

David Ayrapetyan - Boxing - Russia

 

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/.../4/200184.shtml

 

Artur Ayvazian - Shooting - Ukraine

 

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/.../1/234791.shtml

 

Victor Ayvazyan - Sailing - Russia

 

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/.../2/200682.shtml

 

 

Question Marks:

 

Refik Ayvazoglu - Wrestling - Turkey

 

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/.../5/233605.shtml

 

Naiara Altuna - Hockey - Spain

 

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/BIO/.../4/242154.shtml

 

[vava]

Armen Vardanyan won a wrestling bronze medal for the Ukraine.