‘wilsonian Borders’ There Is No Other Document On Armenian-turkish Bo

[MosJan]

‘WILSONIAN BORDERS’ – THE WAY OF STANDING STRONG AGAINST TURKEY

 

*

 

Ara Papian, former Armenian ambassador to Canada, has been studying documents on famous "Wilsonian borders" for a few months now. Papian is surprised that many view the decision on legal borders between Armenia and Turkey signed by the 28th US president Woodrow Wilson as borders foreseen by the Sevres Treaty because "there is no other document on Armenian-Turkish border that has legal force. If anyone claims that there are other documents, for instance Kars, Moscow or Lausanne treaties, tell them confidently that those documents have no legal force," Ara Papian stated at the Press Club on November 14.

 

Wilson’s map that puts the provinces of Van, Erzrum, Bitlis and Trapizon within Armenian borders allows us to claim our rights to these territories at the UN’s International Court. "Armenia’s military-political situation is not an ordinary one therefore solutions should also be extraordinary. If we take the usual, traditional path of settling our problems we will fail to find any solution. I think the most serious issue faced by our country is not the Nagorno-Karabakh issue but the issue of specifying our relations with Turkey and raising the safety level of the country. When we gaze at Ararat, we should take it not only as a national symbol but also an indicator of proximity to a foreign country."

 

This is the most realistic agenda in our political arena, even more than recognition of the Armenian Genocide. "Recognition will not settle any issue. It has only one plus: at the negotiations to come we will be able to state that the current situation has emerged as a result of a crime." Further geopolitical developments, in his words, will inevitable result in creation of the Kurdish state in the Middle East. Presumably, the Kurds will refer to a document especially that Wilson also drew up the map of Kurdistan bordering Armenia in the north.

 

In Papian’s words, we did not study the "Wilsonian borders" as a legal document, only the Diaspora made such an attempt but in the context of the Armenian Genocide.

 

Papian is sure that the only way to stand strong against Turkey is the legal way as we yield to it in terms of politics, economy and military. Throughout history "black oil was more important than red blood."

* By Ruzan Poghosian

[Stormig]

‘WILSONIAN BORDERS’ – THE WAY OF STANDING STRONG AGAINST TURKEY

 

*

 

Ara Papian, former Armenian ambassador to Canada, has been studying documents on famous "Wilsonian borders" for a few months now. Papian is surprised that many view the decision on legal borders between Armenia and Turkey signed by the 28th US president Woodrow Wilson as borders foreseen by the Sevres Treaty because "there is no other document on Armenian-Turkish border that has legal force. If anyone claims that there are other documents, for instance Kars, Moscow or Lausanne treaties, tell them confidently that those documents have no legal force," Ara Papian stated at the Press Club on November 14.

 

Wilson’s map that puts the provinces of Van, Erzrum, Bitlis and Trapizon within Armenian borders allows us to claim our rights to these territories at the UN’s International Court. "Armenia’s military-political situation is not an ordinary one therefore solutions should also be extraordinary. If we take the usual, traditional path of settling our problems we will fail to find any solution. I think the most serious issue faced by our country is not the Nagorno-Karabakh issue but the issue of specifying our relations with Turkey and raising the safety level of the country. When we gaze at Ararat, we should take it not only as a national symbol but also an indicator of proximity to a foreign country."

 

This is the most realistic agenda in our political arena, even more than recognition of the Armenian Genocide. "Recognition will not settle any issue. It has only one plus: at the negotiations to come we will be able to state that the current situation has emerged as a result of a crime." Further geopolitical developments, in his words, will inevitable result in creation of the Kurdish state in the Middle East. Presumably, the Kurds will refer to a document especially that Wilson also drew up the map of Kurdistan bordering Armenia in the north.

 

In Papian’s words, we did not study the "Wilsonian borders" as a legal document, only the Diaspora made such an attempt but in the context of the Armenian Genocide.

 

Papian is sure that the only way to stand strong against Turkey is the legal way as we yield to it in terms of politics, economy and military. Throughout history "black oil was more important than red blood."

* By Ruzan Poghosian

 

I can see that this dumbo is unaware of the fact that Kurds have set their sights on that land. Good luck with convincing them with Wilson's borders with Armenia neighbouring in the north.

[Johannes]

Յարգարժան տիարք՝ արդարութիւնը սուրի ծայրն է, ուժ ունիս, առանց սեւրի ալ կառնես իրաւունքդ, ուժ չունիս, հազար հատ սեւր անարժէք է:

Օրին չկարողացանք իրականութիւն դարձնել, ուժ չունէինք, Եղեռնը դեռ կը շարունակուէր, իսկ այժմ ուժ ու՞նինք:

Մեր կորուսեալ հայրենիքի ճանապարհը աշխարհի մեծ պետութիւններու մայրաքաղաքներէն կանցնի: Այսինքն ուժեղ Lobbieng յարատեւ պայքար: Բայց այս ամէնի համար ժողովուրդ պէտք է, հետապնդող զանգուածներ: Գործի մը մէջ եթէ պիտի մտնենք, այդ գործի շարունակութիւնը եւ յաջողութիւնը ապահոված պէտք է լինենք, որպէսզի հերթական անգամ կէս ճանապարհին մնալով չխեղճանանք:

Նկատի առած, Բագուի նաւթահորերու մեծամասնը հայերու կը պատկաներ, իրաւական հնարք ունին՞ք, այդ հորերու անցնող 90 տարուայ եւ ապագայի եկամուտէն Արցախին բաժին պահանջելու:

[MosJan]

Remembering Woodrow: “Wilson Month” reflected on US president’s lobby for Armenia

By Aris Ghazinyan

ArmeniaNow reporter

“I realize that I’m calling on Congress to make a very serious choice . . . Our recognition of Armenia’s independence will mean true freedom and guaranteed happiness for its people...”

 

One of the politicians most respected by the Armenian people, 28th president of the United States Woodrow Wilson signed under these words in his speech to the U.S. Congress in May 1920. In November 2006, different establishments of the republic marked the 150th birthday anniversary of the great humanist and Nobel Peace Prize winner.

 

Woodrow

“The pages of Armenian history do not remember any other such influential politician on the world scale as Wilson who would assert Armenia’s interests in the world arena with such adherence to principles and dedication,” Dean of the Department of Law at the American University of Armenia (AUA), Professor Tom Samuelian said on November 3. That day marked the start of the Wilson Days in Armenia. Dean of the AUA Department of Political Science and International Relations Lusig Danielian and doctor of political science Armen Ayvazyan also made reports.

 

Woodrow Wilson’s proposal concerning the definition of the border between Armenia and Turkey according to the decision of the San Remo conference and the Sevre Peace Treaty (August 1920) is called in diplomacy “Wilson’s Arbitration Regime”. Under the Sevre Treaty the signatories agreed to leave it to the U.S. discretion to define the border between Armenia and Turkey with Armenia’s ensured gateway to the Black Sea. On November 22, 1920, at the suggestion of Woodrow Wilson it was decided to draw the Armenian-Turkish border through Van, Bitlis and Mush and farther through Yerznka to provide Armenia with a convenient gateway to the Black Sea. The U.S. president himself signed off on this map of Armenia.

 

“Wilson’s Arbitration Regime” – the declaration of the new Armenian statehood, Western Armenia, on the ruins of the collapsed Ottoman Empire – was not translated into reality as republican Turkey of Mustafa Kemal together with Bolshevist Russia waged persevering struggle against the items of the Sevre Treaty and imposed a war on Armenia as a result of which the government of the First Armenian (Eastern) Republic was overthrown and a Soviet regime was established in the country. In the same year of 1920, the authorities of Armenia signed the Alexandropol Agreement and renounced the points of the Sevre Treaty.

 

However, different interpretations then appeared also among the Antanta allies. In particular, still on April 29, 1920, British Prime Minister D. Lloyd George, speaking at the House of Commons, said: “... As for Armenia, it proved to be a problem of extreme difficulty. The difficulty – and hardly need to say it to the friends of Armenia – is connected with the circumstance that there is no Armenian population in some of the vast areas which we wanted to hand over to Armenia and for getting which Armenia has historical reasons. But if they are transferred to Armenia, who will realize our decisions?” Later he would confess: “Oil outweighed the blood of Armenians.”

 

“Wilson Month” in Armenia was marked also by another event. In November, Armenia’s former ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary to Canada Ara Papian declared that there are all preconditions for the establishment of legal protectorate over the historical Armenian lands situated in the territory of modern-day Turkey. As he said, the Armenian side should turn to the judicial instances of the United Nations.

 

“Our country should seek recognition of the validity of the Sevre Treaty, as only this document was signed by the authorities during the period when Armenia still was an entity of international law,” Papian said. “If Armenia’s legal protectorate over a part of the territory of modern Turkey gains international recognition, then it will be possible to get the right of use of the transit ways situated in the territory of historical Armenia and also sue British Petroleum for the construction of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline without coordination with the Republic of Armenia.”

 

“Ara Papian’s approach is quite realistic,” Giro Manoyan, a senior member of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation Bureau in charge of the “Armenian Cause”, said, supporting the opinion of Armenia’s ex ambassador. “According to clause 89 of the Sevre Treaty, the right to draw a border between Armenia and Turkey was given to U.S. President Woodrow Wilson, and he allocated a territory of 160,000 square kilometers to Armenia,” Manoyan reminded.

 

Official Yerevan does not yet have a common state approach to this matter in its diplomatic arsenal. On April 18, 2005, Armenia’s Foreign Minister Vardan Oskanian stated: “The issue of the international recognition of the Genocide was and still remains on Armenia’s foreign policy agenda. I don’t know whether the next president of Armenia will raise the territorial issue. Let the next head of Armenian state speak about subsequent claims.”

 

The position of Armenian President Robert Kocharyan is interesting in this sense. Speaking on the same subject, as a rule he notes: “The question of the recognition of the Genocide and the question of territorial claims are two different problems and have no direct relations to each other. The question of territorial claims to Turkey should be regarded not in the aspect of Turkey’s recognizing the Genocide, but within the framework of the Sevre Peace Treaty.”

[gamavor]

“... As for Armenia, it proved to be a problem of extreme difficulty. The difficulty – and hardly need to say it to the friends of Armenia – is connected with the circumstance that there is no Armenian population in some of the vast areas which we wanted to hand over to Armenia and for getting which Armenia has historical reasons. But if they are transferred to Armenia, who will realize our decisions?” Later he would confess: “Oil outweighed the blood of Armenians.”

 

Hope we are past this stage. What happened in late 90's was the last atempt to prove otherwise. I Hope!

[Arpa]

Hope we are past this stage. What happened in late 90's was the last atempt to prove otherwise. I Hope!

Hi Gamavor, our legal eagle.

I'm sure he knows what NLC-Nolo comprendere means.

I was just listening to a program on the NPR about women‘s issues ,.One of the experts was talking about prenuptial contracts, as to what is legal and applicable. One of the examples she brought up was the scenario where one of the parties, two minutes before the ceremony, would say; “Oh, btw honey, before we walk down the aisle, would you please sign this contract”?

NO GO!

Not legal!

Coercion!

Unintelligible legalese!

Not enough time to review and understand!

How many times have we “walked down the aisle” without reading and understanding the “what’s”, the “but’s” and the “if’s” of the “contract”.

NO GO!

Not legal!

Coercion!

Not binding!

Will not stand the test in a “court of JUSTICE”! Emphasis on “justice”.

[Takoush]

“... As for Armenia, it proved to be a problem of extreme difficulty. The difficulty – and hardly need to say it to the friends of Armenia – is connected with the circumstance that there is no Armenian population in some of the vast areas which we wanted to hand over to Armenia and for getting which Armenia has historical reasons. But if they are transferred to Armenia, who will realize our decisions?” Later he would confess: “Oil outweighed the blood of Armenians.”

Gams and Arpa; if Wilsonian Armenia was ours today wouldn't you go and live there? I believe I would.

And if most of us would go and live there than like what Gams said it would raise no similar problem today.

[Nazarian]

Gams and Arpa; if Wilsonian Armenia was ours today wouldn't you go and live there? I believe I would.

And if most of us would go and live there than like what Gams said it would raise no similar problem today.

 

So this is the latest excuse not to go and live in Armenia? If the Wilsonian borders were in place, would the new excuse be 'If Armenia was located near the equator, I would go and live there'?

[Takoush]

So this is the latest excuse not to go and live in Armenia? If the Wilsonian borders were in place, would the new excuse be 'If Armenia was located near the equator, I would go and live there'?

Oh come on!!!!! How come you're not there???????

[Nazarian]

Oh come on!!!!! How come you're not there???????

 

I can't afford to live in Armenia right now.

 

It is much more pleasant to be a tourist and be financially independent in that country. The moment you start looking for ways to make a living, you will need to deal with all that cr*p - thick headed and corrupt officials, thick headed and vulgar business people, simple minded and yet very stubborn people who think they know everything, etc. Did I mention corrupt government? It can be very unpleasant to be around these people.

 

The worst a tourist comes across is a corrupt policeman who can be bought with 1000 drams. The locals have to deal with a lot more dirt.

[Takoush]

So this is the latest excuse not to go and live in Armenia? If the Wilsonian borders were in place, would the new excuse be 'If Armenia was located near the equator, I would go and live there'?

Nazarian:

 

We each have our reasons or excuses not to go and live in the RA.

 

But the reason why I talked about Wilsonian Armenia is in reference to the then British government who said about us that we are lacking of Armenian people to have such a land given back to us. But of course it was an excuse on their part and we learned it's because of Baku's oil that they were after and making friends with the turks and azerbaboons for their oil.

 

Anyhow, I was referring to their statement of the lack of our population. And today it shouldn't raise that as a problem and plus if a good deal of us plan to go and live there than even better, we'll be that much more people for our lands.

 

I am of course not asking you nor expecting you to go back, it was only an answer to your statements to me.

[hosank]

i don't need a wilsonian border to go to armenia, and i don't need an excuse not to live there. im already planning to live there once i finish my studies.

 

but yes, we deserve wilsonian armenia

[Johannes]

Մըստըր Վիլսոնը, պիտի չի որոշէ, թէ մեր հայրենիքը ուր է:

Ան իր գրիչով, շատ թանկագին բաժիններ պոկեց եւ միացուց այսպէս կոչուած «քուրդիստան»ին:

Քուրդերը, միայն արաբական տիրապետութեան վէրջին օրերուն հաստատուեցան հարաւային Հայաստանի տարածքին: Ոսմանցիներու տիրապետութեան ընթացքին, մեծաթիւ քուրդեր եկան եւ բնակեցան հարաւային եւ կեդրոնական հայաստանի տարածքին: Այժմ այդ հողերը մերը չէ, յետեւաբար ինչու այդ ամերիկացիի գծածը, որպէս սրբութիւն կը մատուցենք նոր սերունդին, իբր ապագայ Հայաստան, իբր թիրախ կամ նպատակ:

Չէ որ Աղձնիքը, Ծոփքը, Պարսկահայքը չ'կան այնտեղ:

Չենք խօսիր Փոքր Հայքի մասին:

Ճանչնանք մեր Հայրենիքը մեր աղբիւրէն, եւ ոչ մի ոմն Wilson-ի միջոցով:

[Takoush]

Մըստըր Վիլսոնը, պիտի չի որոշէ, թէ մեր հայրենիքը ուր է:

Ան իր գրիչով, շատ թանկագին բաժիններ պոկեց եւ միացուց այսպէս կոչուած «քուրդիստան»ին:

Քուրդերը, միայն արաբական տիրապետութեան վէրջին օրերուն հաստատուեցան հարաւային Հայաստանի տարածքին: Ոսմանցիներու տիրապետութեան ընթացքին, մեծաթիւ քուրդեր եկան եւ բնակեցան հարաւային եւ կեդրոնական հայաստանի տարածքին: Այժմ այդ հողերը մերը չէ, յետեւաբար ինչու այդ ամերիկացիի գծածը, որպէս սրբութիւն կը մատուցենք նոր սերունդին, իբր ապագայ Հայաստան, իբր թիրախ կամ նպատակ:

Չէ որ Աղձնիքը, Ծոփքը, Պարսկահայքը չ'կան այնտեղ:

Չենք խօսիր Փոքր Հայքի մասին:

Ճանչնանք մեր Հայրենիքը մեր աղբիւրէն, եւ ոչ մի ոմն Wilson-ի միջոցով:

Պարոն Հովհաննէս,

 

Ինչո՞ւ չէ, համացայն եմ քեզ անշուշտ, երանի՜ թէ կարենանք մի օր եւ կրկին տիրանանք թէ բոքր Հայքին եւ նաեւ մեծ Հայքին:

 

Անշուշտ մեր բոլորին նուիրական երազն է այդ, թող որ մի օր այդ մեր երազը իրականանայ որ վայելենք մեր պապերէն մեզ ընծայուած նուիրական մեր լրիւ հողերը: Բայց սակայն այս աշխարհի վրայ առանց պայքարելու կամ կռուելու ոչինչ կուտան մեզ: Ամէն այս բոլորի ժամանակը կուգայ եւ մենք կրկին պիտի ունենանք մեր լրիւ Հայրենի հողերը:

 

Edited December 29, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[Johannes]

Անուշկա, լաւ ըսիր:

 

Մոռցայ յիշելու՝ Վասպուրականի մեծամասնը եւ Կորճայքը չէ ներառնուած Վիլսոնեան Հայաստանի քարտէսի մէջ:

 

Ամէնայնդէպս, այդ քարտէսը եւ Սեվրի դաշնագիրը ոչինչ կ'արժէն, եթէ ոյժ չ'ունինք վերատիրանալու կորուսեալ մեր օրօրանին:

 

Օրրան = օրօրան = հայրենիք

 

Օրօրան = վայր՝ որտեղ մայրեր, օրօր կը կարդան, իւրանց երեխաները քնացնելու համար:

[Takoush]

Անուշկա, լաւ ըսիր:

 

Մոռցայ յիշելու՝ Վասպուրականի մեծամասնը եւ Կորճայքը չէ ներառնուած Վիլսոնեան Հայաստանի քարտէսի մէջ:

 

Ամէնայնդէպս, այդ քարտէսը եւ Սեվրի դաշնագիրը ոչինչ կ'արժէն, եթէ ոյժ չ'ունինք վերատիրանալու կորուսեալ մեր օրօրանին:

 

Օրրան = օրօրան = հայրենիք

 

Օրօրան = վայր՝ որտեղ մայրեր, օրօր կը կարդան, իւրանց երեխաները քնացնելու համար:

 

Անշուշտ եւ անտարակոյս:

 

Հրամմէ Հովհաննէս եղբայր մեր ապագայի Հայրենիքը:

 

Թող որ օրօրուինք մեր երազներով այսօր, բայց վստա՛հ եղիր Հայրենակից որ երազները նաեւ ամպայման իրականանալու են այս արեվու տակ մի մօտ ապագային:

[Johannes]

Առաջինը լաւ է, մերինն է:

 

Երկրորդը՝ ցաւ է:

[Takoush]

Վանայ եւ Ուրմիոյ լիճերն են լքուած

Աղթամառն է մեզ առտասւում անվերչ.

Այս բոլորը դուք տեսնում էք Հա՛յեր

եւ այն թողել էք բախտի պատմութեան,

Լօկ ցանկանալով հարցեր չեն լուծւում

Այս է մեզ ասում մեր կեանքը այժմեան.

 

Պէտք է պայքառել, պէ՛տք է պայքառել

Եւ պէտք չէ սոսկալ մահից սեբական,

Մահուան գնով էլ պարտավոր ենք մենք

Միացեալ տեսնել հողը Հայկական:

 

 

Հովհ. Շիրազ

[MosJan]

Wilson’s Document a Powerful Weapon for Armenians, 28 Dec 2006

 

http://www.ibctoday.com/News/ViewNewsItem....deoPanelType=1#

 

Ara Papyan Armenia’s Former Ambassador to Canada

 

 

 

 

“If we compare our foreign policy with the hero of our epic ‘Sasuntsi Davit’ (David of Sasun), it is my impression that we leave behind Kourgik Jalali and Tur Ketsaki to fight our enemies. This is to say that instead of using powerful documents in the legal sphere, like Sasuntsi Davit we are uprooting a tree and using it to defend ourselves from our enemies.”

 

Armenia’s Former Ambassador to Canada Ara Papyan believes that the Armenian nation’s most powerful weapon in the matter of our claim is a document signed more then 80 years ago. To be more precise the November 22, 1920 legal decision of US President Woodrow Wilson, according to which Armenia received the provinces of Van, Bitlis, Erzrum and Trapizon as well as an exit to the Black Sea.

 

“Western Armenia was officially recognized with its 6 provinces. It was decided that three of the six provinces would be granted to Armenia, taking into account that following the Genocide the number of Armenians had been reduced.”

 

By the assessment of Ara Papyan, the map drawn by Wilson is actual even today; it is simply necessary to confirm its validity in the UN international court, following which to demand the Security Council to implement it.”

 

“We have the complete possibility to use it, since the arbiter decision is timeless. It remains in force. Simply when in 1921 the verdict of the arbiter decision reached the Paris Conference, already one of the parties- the Republic of Armenia- did not exist, therefore implementing the verdict was postponed. Today the Republic of Armenia, which is the legal successor of the First Republic, can present its demands based on this document.”

 

According to Ara Papyan, the legal way is far cheaper and beneficial then the military, economic and political methods, because we concede Turkey in all the mentioned standards. He is sure that “Hiring a few lawyers is far inexpensive than maintaining a number of military unites.”

 

Gohar Martirosyan, Gevorg Olkinyan ‘Yerkirn Aysor’ (The Country Today)

[Takoush]

Wilson’s Document a Powerful Weapon for Armenians, 28 Dec 2006

 

http://www.ibctoday.com/News/ViewNewsItem....deoPanelType=1#

 

Ara Papyan Armenia’s Former Ambassador to Canada

“If we compare our foreign policy with the hero of our epic ‘Sasuntsi Davit’ (David of Sasun), it is my impression that we leave behind Kourgik Jalali and Tur Ketsaki to fight our enemies. This is to say that instead of using powerful documents in the legal sphere, like Sasuntsi Davit we are uprooting a tree and using it to defend ourselves from our enemies.”

 

Armenia’s Former Ambassador to Canada Ara Papyan believes that the Armenian nation’s most powerful weapon in the matter of our claim is a document signed more then 80 years ago. To be more precise the November 22, 1920 legal decision of US President Woodrow Wilson, according to which Armenia received the provinces of Van, Bitlis, Erzrum and Trapizon as well as an exit to the Black Sea.

 

“Western Armenia was officially recognized with its 6 provinces. It was decided that three of the six provinces would be granted to Armenia, taking into account that following the Genocide the number of Armenians had been reduced.”

 

By the assessment of Ara Papyan, the map drawn by Wilson is actual even today; it is simply necessary to confirm its validity in the UN international court, following which to demand the Security Council to implement it.”

 

“We have the complete possibility to use it, since the arbiter decision is timeless. It remains in force. Simply when in 1921 the verdict of the arbiter decision reached the Paris Conference, already one of the parties- the Republic of Armenia- did not exist, therefore implementing the verdict was postponed. Today the Republic of Armenia, which is the legal successor of the First Republic, can present its demands based on this document.”

 

According to Ara Papyan, the legal way is far cheaper and beneficial then the military, economic and political methods, because we concede Turkey in all the mentioned standards. He is sure that “Hiring a few lawyers is far inexpensive than maintaining a number of military unites.”

 

Gohar Martirosyan, Gevorg Olkinyan ‘Yerkirn Aysor’ (The Country Today)

I believe that Ara Papyan has a very good valid point. I fully believe and agree with Papyan that since he thinks that the Wilsonian map document could still be valid until now then we should inquire and ask it at the same time when the Armenian Genocide is accepted by U.S.A. and Turkey and in 2007 this year. Next to apologies our Wilsonian 3 vilayets are in order. We will have enough lands for our countrymen who lost their anscestors to be able to return to their homelands.

 

I believe the Armenian Republic and our respective Diaspora organizations hand in hand should see the implementation of Papyan's argument and the validity that the arbiter decision is timeless, all we have to do is to make it work.

Edited January 20, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[MosJan]

Armenian-Turkish border determined by Wodroow Wilson arbitration award

13.09.2007 15:09 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail In Russian In Armenian

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ “The interest is explained by the fact that the emphasis was laid on history while the legal aspect was quite forgotten. From 1918 to 1923 five treaties determined the Armenian-Turkish border. The Sevr Treaty was signed on 10 August, 1920. It was followed by the Alexandropol Treaty (3 December, 1920), the Moscow Treaty (16 March, 1921), the Kars Treaty (13 October, 1921), and finally, the Lousanne Treaty (24 July, 1923),” diplomat and historian Ara Papian said in an interview with PanARMENIAN.Net.

 

“On the whole, international agreements may be signed by the subjects of international law, i.e. by the legitimate government through its plenipotentiary. From this stand, only the Sevr and Lousanne treaties are valid. The Alexandropol Treaty was concluded at the time when Kemalists had not come to power in Turkey while Dashnaktsutyun had already lost the power. The Moscow and Kars treaties have no legal effect at all, since they were signed by Kemalists, although Sultan was formally the head of the state till 1923. By the way, on 11 May, 1920 the Turkish tribunal demoted and sentenced to death General Mustafa Kemal (later known as Kemal Ataturk). The court verdict was approved by the Sultan on 24 May, 1920,” he said.

 

“As to Soviet Russia, it has not been recognized by legitimate states until 1 February, 1924. Thus, its signature is not valid either,” he noted.

 

“As a matter of fact, the Sevr Treaty was not ratified. However, it remains valid. The most important point is that the Armenian-Turkish border was determined by the arbitration award of U.S. President Wodroow Wilson. Not all remember that Armenia was among the winners of the World War I and it put signature to the Sevr Treaty. France, UK and Italy turned to President Wilson for arbitration award. This award cannot be appealed. Signed on 22 November 1920, it was conveyed to the Parisian Conference on 6 December, but unfortunately, the Republic of Armenia was occupied by the 11th Red Army on 3 December.

 

With proclaiming independence in 1991, Armenia has become a subject of international law again. According to the arbitration award, Armenia was entitled to receive 4 vilayets: Van, Bitlis, Erzrum and Trabzon, which ensured outlet to the sea.

 

33 countries of the world have no outlet to the sea. These are the states of Central Africa, a couple of states in South America, several states in Eurasia and Armenia…” Ara Papian said.

[MosJan]

Ara Papian:

Armenian Genocide is the issue of present and future

The problem of demarcation of the Armenian-Turkish border is still open, as 80 years ago. Despite 5 treaties signed by the states which won World War I and Wodroow Wilson’s arbitration award on the Armenian-Turkish border, the border has not been determined yet. From the viewpoint of the international law, the Republic of Armenia, being the assignee of the First Republic, is entitled to raise the issue again. Diplomat and historian Ara Papian comments on the situation to PanARMENIAN.Net.

13.09.2007 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail

The legitimacy of the treaties concluded after WWI has been much spoken about recently. How would you explain it?

 

The interest is explained by the fact that the emphasis was laid on history while the legal aspect was quite forgotten. From 1918 to 1923 five treaties determined the Armenian-Turkish border. The Sevr Treaty was signed on 10 August, 1920. It was followed by the Alexandropol Treaty (3 December, 1920), the Moscow Treaty (16 March, 1921), the Kars Treaty (13 October, 1921), and finally, the Lousanne Treaty (24 July, 1923).

 

On the whole, international agreements may be signed by the subjects of international law, i.e. by the legitimate government through its plenipotentiary. From this stand, only the Sevr and Lousanne treaties are valid. The Alexandropol Treaty was concluded at the time when Kemalists had not come to power in Turkey while Dashnaktsutyun had already lost the power. The Moscow and Kars treaties have no legal effect at all, since they were signed by Kemalists, although Sultan was formally the head of the state till 1923. By the way, on 11 May, 1920 the Turkish tribunal demoted and sentenced to death General Mustafa Kemal (later known as Kemal Ataturk). The court verdict was approved by the Sultan on 24 May, 1920.

 

As to Soviet Russia, it has not been recognized by legitimate states until 1 February, 1924. Thus, its signature is not valid either.

 

As a matter of fact, the Sevr Treaty was not ratified. However, it remains valid. The most important point is that the Armenian-Turkish border was determined by the arbitration award of U.S. President Wodroow Wilson. Not all remember that Armenia was among the winners of the World War I and it put signature to the Sevr Treaty. France, UK and Italy turned to President Wilson for arbitration award. This award cannot be appealed. Signed on 22 November 1920, it was conveyed to the Parisian Conference on 6 December, but unfortunately, the Republic of Armenia was occupied by the 11th Red Army on 3 December.

 

With proclaiming independence in 1991, Armenia has become a subject of international law again. According to the arbitration award, Armenia was entitled to receive 4 vilayets: Van, Bitlis, Erzrum and Trabzon, which ensured outlet to the sea.

 

33 countries of the world have no outlet to the sea. These are the states of Central Africa, a couple of states in South America, several states in Eurasia and Armenia…

 

What will happen if Turkey opens the border with Armenia?

 

There is a habit to think that everything will go well after the opening of the Armenian-Turkish border. It won’t. Open border is just a result of normalization of the Armenia-Turkey relations. I am confident that our Foreign Ministry has chosen the right way. Turkey says it recognized independent Armenia in 1992. However, it was de facto recognition only.

 

We should not forget about security issues either. If the border problem is settled in compliance with the arbitration award, Armenia can raise the issue of demilitarization of Turkey’s near-border provinces, what supposes presence of international observers and exclusion of any aggression against Armenia.

 

The Kars-Akhalkalaki-Baku railroad is a menace, since Turkey obtains the possibility to supply Azerbaijan with weapons. The greater is amount of armament in the region, the more possible is war. All are interested in stability in the region, except for Turkey, which hasn’t identified itself so far and is terrified by the outlook to lose territories. The idea of territorial integrity, so artificially cherished by the government, will sooner or later lead to decline of the state.

 

Do you think Turkey will acknowledge the Armenian Genocide at the hands of the Ottoman Empire?

 

The problem is not in the Genocide recognition but in Turkey’s policy. Turks suffer from the guilt complex while Armenians cannot overcome the victim complex. The Turkish nation should mature for the Genocide recognition. We are neighbors and this fact is unchangeable. However, Turks deprived us of motherland and do not even allow us to visit it directly. Armenians should speak of all genocides and understand that it’s not a historical issue but the issue of present and future. International pressure on Turkey will increase.

 

Presently, Turkey faces a choice: either to become a European state or remain as such, i.e dangerous for its neighbors. Nationalism proclaimed by Ataturk rests on the General Staff. On the other hand, Islamists do not share European values. Just go 200 km away from Istanbul and you will see Turkey living as if in the 19th century, not to mention the vilayets bordering with Armenia.

 

How would you comment on Armenia’s role in the region?

 

Strengthening and enlargement of Armenia is in the interests of Russia, the European Union and the U.S. Armenia can also play an important role in the Middle East. Being a Christian state it enjoys respect of Muslim states, of Saidu Arabia for example. We can be civilizing mediators between East and West.

«PanARMENIAN.Net», 13.09.2007

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