ExtraHye Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Ever since I was a little kid everyone has been telling me that education is very important and that we need to do good in school in order to get into a good university so we could get ahead in life. But more and more I've been thinking that it's not education that's important it's experience and the people you know. I've been doing a lot of recruiting at my job (anyone with engineering experience please PM me and I'll help you out ) and almost all of our job requisitions are asking for experience. In fact we went to a job fair last week and all these young very educated kids were having a difficult time with finding a job. Sometimes the saying its not what you know its who you know sooooooo true. All the jobs I've ever had (not counting the mall ) were from friends or family referring me. Not that I'm not qualified but people hire you so much faster this way. What do you think is more important in finding a job: 1. Education 2. Experience 3. Who you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 I don't know in other areas but in the computer science and computer engineering area, typically spending 4-5 years to get a Ph.D. you end up getting paid (to start) maybe just as much as someone who quits after M.S. and works for 4-5 years and now has "experience". It's usually a tradeoff and really depends on what kind of "job" it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraHye Posted July 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Well we currently have an opening for an quality engineer, engineer/scientist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Well we currently have an opening for an quality engineer, engineer/scientist What are the requirements for it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraHye Posted July 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 What are the requirements for it ? Can't think of it right now but I'll post it when I get to work. Why do you know anyone who could do the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 (edited) The whole "theory" of (School + University) = Dream Job, is rubbish. Almost all who are truely successful today don't even have a college education. Edited July 20, 2006 by sSebB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 (edited) The whole "theory" of (School + University) = Dream Job, is rubbish. I would agree with that except there's a big caveat: In this day and age, "No School + No University = No Dream Job" is pretty much guaranteed. As far as the second part of your post, all I can say is ? Even Bush has a degree from Yale and we all know how much that means. But who are these "truely successful" people? You are not talking entertainers or athletes are you? Yah if you have some amazing skill or talent, then maybe you can be successful without school .. but for the 99% of the rest, I don't think what you said is true at all. Amy, don't know anyone but I was curious what the wording is on the job description in terms of education vs experience requirements. Edited July 20, 2006 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 But who are these "truely successful" people? Ok just to name a few: Bill Gates Micheal Dell Steve Jobs Thomas Monaghan Stephen Spielberg Ralph Lauren Wayne Huizenga BTW by college education, I meant "graduating from college". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Alright .. you seem to like to list rich people So let's just go down the top 10 of Forbe's riches 100 from this year ... 1. William Gates III, US, 50, $50, Microsoft - Went to Harward but dropped to start Microsoft. 2. Warren Buffett, US, 75, $42, Berkshire Hathaway - University of Nebraska 3. Carlos Slim Helu, Mexico, 66, $30, telecom - He is an engineer by profession, graduated from the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM) (National Autonomous University of Mexico) in 1961, where before graduating he taught Algebra and Linear Programming. He has given lectures in public and private institutions, and also in international bodies such as the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean (ECLAC). 4. Ingvar Kamprad, Sweden, 79, $28, Ikea - Ok he's 79 - kind of out of range. 5. Lakshmi Mittal, India, 55, $23.5, steel - Lakshmi graduated from JIMS Kalkaji Delhi in Delhi with a business degree in 1969. His classmates knew him as a sharp student who was good with numbers 6. Paul Allen, Washington, 53, $22, Microsoft, investments = Went to Washington state but dropped out to start Microsoft. 7. Bernard Arnault, France, 57, $21.5, LVMH - Bernard Arnault graduated with engineering degree from the École Polytechnique in 1971 8. Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud, Saudi Arabia, 49, $20, investments - completed his Bachelors in Science in Business Administration from Menlo College, USA in 1979 and Masters in Social Science from Syracuse University, USA in 1985. 9. Kenneth Thomson and family, Canada, 82, $19.6, publishing - Too old. 10. Li Ka-shing, Hong Kong, 77, $18.8, diversified - Again, too old to consider. hmmmm .... just looking at the top 10 it seems your "theory" doesn't hold too well sSebB. With the exception of the Microsoft guys, Gates and Allen, both of whom are super super smart people, and the old geezers that I didn't bother to check, the rest all seem to have college "education" (even by your definition). As far as "Ralph Lauren" and "Steven Spielberg", fine ok if your dream job is to be a famous clothing designer or an extraordinary movie director, maybe there are other paths to pursue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 [quote name='ExtraHye' date='Jul 20 2006, 02:05 AM' post='174783' What do you think is more important in finding a job: 1. Education 2. Experience 3. Who you know I would change the list more like this. 1. Who you know 2. Education 3. Experience My reasons for this list, "Who you know" will get you through the door. If you are educated and smart, you will manage the job through hard work and get your experience. If you have experience than you can reverse #2 with #3 but #1 will always be the dominant factor in getting jobs. But than again how would I know? I only worked four years for someone else, and that was years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraHye Posted July 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Amy, don't know anyone but I was curious what the wording is on the job description in terms of education vs experience requirements. Below is the requirements Verify Work instructions to Drawing and sub-tier specification requirements, provide technical support to inspection personnel, perform root cause analysis & generate corrective action plans, provide support to failure review board and corrective action board, produce and analyze workmanship metrics, generate acceptance data packages and as-built configuration/serialization manifests, support the quality engineering manager with other special assignments as required. Support the inspection mgr through knowledge of solder technologies and acceptance criteria of J-STD-001, optical bench and geometric dimensioning/tolerance per Ansi Y-14.5 skills helpful. see nothing about education JOB DUTIES: Support the Aircraft Systems IPT with structural or mechanical systems analysis of multiple aircraft. Specific job responsibilities include static, fatigue, and/or damage tolerance stress analysis support to aircraft design, fabrication, testing, and structural integrity activities. Help to develop analysis methods and tools. Assist in the verification of these requirements with the customer. JOB SKILLS/QUALIFICATIONS: Individual must have worked within an IPT / AIT environment and have demonstrated Level 4 capability (Level 4 typically requires a minimum of 13 years experience in an engineering classification). Experience with stress, fatigue, and/or damage tolerance analysis on primary structural components or mechanical systems is required. Strong background in performing hand analyses is also required. The following attributes are desired - experience with 737 fuselage/wing analysis, knowledge of finite element modeling techniques, particularly using NASTRAN, PATRAN or ELFINI, working knowledge of BCA analysis tools like IAS, MOSS-DUBERG, FAMOSS, FEDMS, or TES 170, working knowledge of the Dimmig FEM analysis codes, experience developing IAS or CSW analysis templates, fatigue analysis experience and derivation of IDTAS templates, and damage tolerance analysis experience. Or here nothing about education. Now don't get me wrong I've always thought Education is very important but managers don't see to think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 What do you think is more important in finding a job: 1. Education 2. Experience 3. Who you know Street Cred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 its one thing to start a company or be one of the founders and become very rich without having an education its another to be successful executive in the business world without education and I would bet at the director or the VP level you may only find 5-10% without higher education I can tell you that in our company we will not hire anyone(including admins) without a college degree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 hmmmm .... just looking at the top 10 it seems your "theory" doesn't hold too well sSebB. With the exception of the Microsoft guys, Gates and Allen, both of whom are super super smart people, and the old geezers that I didn't bother to check, the rest all seem to have college "education" (even by your definition). As far as "Ralph Lauren" and "Steven Spielberg", fine ok if your dream job is to be a famous clothing designer or an extraordinary movie director, maybe there are other paths to pursue. No doubt you need to be smart to succeed, like the MS guys, but you don't need a degree. That was my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allarmeniangirl Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Ever since I was a little kid everyone has been telling me that education is very important and that we need to do good in school in order to get into a good university so we could get ahead in life. But more and more I've been thinking that it's not education that's important it's experience and the people you know. I've been doing a lot of recruiting at my job (anyone with engineering experience please PM me and I'll help you out ) and almost all of our job requisitions are asking for experience. In fact we went to a job fair last week and all these young very educated kids were having a difficult time with finding a job. Sometimes the saying its not what you know its who you know sooooooo true. All the jobs I've ever had (not counting the mall ) were from friends or family referring me. Not that I'm not qualified but people hire you so much faster this way. What do you think is more important in finding a job: 1. Education 2. Experience 3. Who you know I would suggest getting an internship, so you get experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 I've been doing a lot of recruiting at my job (anyone with engineering experience please PM me and I'll help you out ) and almost all of our job requisitions are asking for experience. In fact we went to a job fair last week and all these young very educated kids were having a difficult time with finding a job. But Extra, even if they're asking for experience at your job, isn't it a given that the person applying for an engineering position would have education? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraHye Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 But Extra, even if they're asking for experience at your job, isn't it a given that the person applying for an engineering position would have education? Yes but not a degree. They could have a few years here and a few years there. I hired this guy about a month ago for $140.00 an hour. He dosen't even have a masters degree. Thats what I was getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Yes but not a degree. They could have a few years here and a few years there. I hired this guy about a month ago for $140.00 an hour. He dosen't even have a masters degree. Thats what I was getting at. Extra; years ago Presidents of mega large companies they used to have only a High School degree and they used to get hands on experience to go on leading very large corporations. I think basically that's where you're coming from. Though I could agree with you, but as much as I don't want to admit it, education especially in certain jobs like professional jobs not only is important but it's imperative. Then also remember that to be an engineer, that guy still had to be taught at least a few years of schooling/college degrees to gain the essential knowledge and education to be able to go on and perform the job at hand, then gain the experience for carrying out the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 school is very important... because if you're not from a particular school you're not invited to the frat parties and other crazy parties that go on in that schools... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 i think we had this discussion before... http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=13839 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraHye Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 i think we had this discussion before... http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=13839 And your point is????? Kidding you guys could close this thread then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 I hired this guy about a month ago for $140.00 an hour. He dosen't even have a masters degree. Thats what I was getting at. Hey, what you do behind closed doors on your own time is your business and no one elses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraHye Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Hey, what you do behind closed doors on your own time is your business and no one elses. An Engineer smart ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Hey, what you do behind closed doors on your own time is your business and no one elses. Also very expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 The whole "theory" of (School + University) = Dream Job, is rubbish. Almost all who are truely successful today don't even have a college education. That itself is rubbish. What do you base it on? Exceptions to the rule? Becuase Bill Gates is one, doesn't mean anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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