Nakhidjevan Ethnic Cleanings History

[Takoush]

Gams jan:

 

Des yete garenas gartal zoom enelov, yev yete voch yes bedk eh ouremn kez hamar type enem.

 

Ints deghegatsour ouremn.

[Takoush]

Here's the other article.

[Takoush]

In Spite of the Genocide...

 

By Serge Sarkisian

 

YEREVAN, Armenia-Over the past few months, attention in Europe has focused once again on the genocide of the Armenian people. The debate in the European Parliament over whether Turkey's recognition of the genocide should be a precondition for membership in the European Union, and the French National Assembly's bill criminalizing genocide denial, have put the spotlight on this tragic period of Armenia's history.

 

I want to look to the future and I hope that Turkey's negotiations for EU membership will provide the long-awaited opportunity for our two countries to establish civilized relations for the benefit of our peoples and the region. Armenia is part of the new European Neighborhood Policy and is seeking closer ties with the EU. As the country with the oldest Christian community in the world, we are a neighbor to Europe, but also to Georgia, Azerbaijan, Iran and Turkey.

 

Turkish-Armenian relations and the genocide are, of course, important factors that need to be considered during Turkey's negotiations for EU membership. It is important to remember the past to ensure that such crimes against humanity are not repeated. Nevertheless, Armenia has a very straightforward and practical position in terms of future relations with Turkey. We would welcome starting normal diplomatic and other relations - without preconditions. That includes not tying the establishment of diplomatic relations to recognition of the genocide. More importantly, we want to profit from such diplomatic relations as a means to overcome the issues that burden our relations. We cannot expect solutions to come before we start talking to each other. Solutions will only arise when we work hard for them, starting by establishing an open dialogue.

 

In addition to building diplomatic ties between our two countries, we believe that in negotiating for membership - and perhaps as a future EU member state - Turkey will contribute to an economically stronger and more stable neighborhood. This is in the interest of both Turkey and Armenia. EU membership would also make Turkey much more predictable. It is always easier to deal with a predictable neighbor.

 

Sadly, in the past Turkey's response to Armenia's desire for normal, diplomatic relations has been to punish and threaten those who have recognized the genocide. The breakthrough promised 15 years ago when Ankara announced its recognition of Armenian independence remains unfulfilled. Turkey refused then to establish diplomatic relations with my country - and refuses to do so to this day. The result is that our bilateral relations are zero. Worse, Turkey maintains closed borders with Armenia despite growing international pressure and condemnation, throws every effort into isolating landlocked Armenia from international and regional transportation projects and does not play a constructive role in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.

 

[ ... Armenia seeks diplomatic relations with Turkey. ]

 

While these policies contradict contemporary principles of international relations and world order, Armenia does not regard Turkey's potential membership in the EU as a threat to national security. Quite the contrary. We hope it will mean that Turkey will change, and be in a better position to face both its history and future.

 

The entry negotiations hold seeds of hope that the impasse between Turkey and Armenia can eventually be broken. If Turkey lifts the blockade of its border with Armenia, my small country becomes geopolitically closer to Europe. Armenia already shares a common interest with the EU on a large range of issues ranging from regional security to democratic development.

 

The statehood that both Armenia and Turkey enjoy is not an apartment. You cannot sell it and leave it. Neither Turks nor Armenians will leave the region. The logical solution is to have normal relations with each other. That's what neighbors seek to do in today's world.

 

I do not say that Armenia should resolve its relations with Ankara at any price. What I do say is that it is ready to regulate its relations with Turkey without any preconditions. Armenia is committed to doing everything it can to find a way to develop bilateral relations, as much as we are seeking close cooperation with the EU. We look forward to the EU becoming increasingly involved in finding a way to a breakthrough for relations between Turkey and Armenia.

 

Finally, let me make yet one more appeal to Turkey. We cannot be permanent enemies - and even if we could, there is no need or sense in being such enemies. So for the sake of our future, let us move forward.

 

(Mr. Sarkissian is Armenia's defense minister.)

 

I believe this was taken from the Journal.

 

Here it is Gams jan and for everyone's view on the Forum as well of course.

Edited December 26, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[zurderer]

The Turk has some points that shouldn't be ignored, however it is dumb to respond to his faulty logic. In one hand, he shows some concern about how awful Armenia's geopolitics look and in the same time he pushes his agenda to absurd levels of "kissing hands".

 

Infact I am not the one who began to talk about "kissing hands". ROA have no alternative to russia and iran. (At least until solving of karabag issue.)

 

Infact ROA cannot find any ally at Caucasus too. Armenian allies are not a preference but a must. Georgians, azeris and Turks will not help armenians. So They only have russians and iranians, but well, If you have russians as ally, you dont need enemy.

 

Anahid Takouhi

 

I am sure you wont like it but ROA is excluded almost all development at Caucasus. no train way, no trade, no enery projects. Georgia is taking benefit from this much.(That is excatly, why they wont help armenia.)

 

So ROA is trying to become friend with Turkey. Of course, Turkish wants for this allience is too much for ROA. That is the problem, not genocide claims.

[Armenak]

I am sure you wont like it but ROA is excluded almost all development at Caucasus. no train way, no trade, no enery projects. Georgia is taking benefit from this much.(That is excatly, why they wont help armenia.)

 

So ROA is trying to become friend with Turkey. Of course, Turkish wants for this allience is too much for ROA. That is the problem, not genocide claims.

You make it seem like Turkey is perfect. I know many Armenian immigrants from Istanbul here in the U.S. who have lived there for quite some time (and many have been out of Istanbul) and from what they have told me I think it's safe to say that you guys have a lot more improving to do as well.

 

The Azeris, by the way, are too Russified to give a damn about Turkey. Some have been brainwashed into thinking that speaking "Turkey Turkish" and praising Ataturk is Pan-Turkic/nationalistic. Most, however, speak better Russian (and Armenian) than Turkish.

 

And as far as Turk unity goes, we all know what happened in Kazakhstan a few months ago.

 

So in the end it's all about national interests.

[Error 404]

Zurderer

 

you don't know facts and you are spreading your bull shit here. Who the hell said that armenia dos not have energy projects or energy? Are you sure? Double check the facts before you bull shit.

 

There is railway connection between Armenia and Georgia too. (it wasn't there 10 years ago)

 

The economy is advancing too. Slowly but stable. Again check the facts before BS.

 

Why do you think Armenia is so desperate of making friends of his historical enemies? 10 years ago the life was much worse in Armenia why Armenia didn't make friends out of his foes back then? According to you now Armenia needs them so desperately.

 

Better death than life on knees. You may not understand the meaning of this because born to crawl can't fly...

[Takoush]

The complimentary policy introduced by Vartan Oskanian is the only adequate policy that Armenia should pursue.

Gams jan; take a look at this site which is the Statement by Vartan Oskanian at the Chatham House in about April of 2004.

 

http://www.armeniaforeignministry.com/htms...0416_vo_uk.html

Edited December 27, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[Takoush]

http://www.armeniaforeignministry.com/htms...0416_vo_uk.html

[hosank]

I am just trying to say,You can loose war. Dont be idiots, calculate first than attack nahçivan. Russia will not help you and you will lost all war.(Including karabag.) This invincible army story is stupidy.

I think, Hitits did not designed ankara for Turks too. If ancient greeks and roman emperors though they can siege and take other cities, They should accept possibility of loosing their cities too. So everything fair, when greeks and armenians were powerful, they expanded their territories. When Turks were powerful, they extended their territories too.

 

So Istanbul is a turkish city like ankara. Sorry van is also a turkish city. If you have power change it, If you have not dont talk about tales.

No my ancestors were peaceful guys.

You mean older wars, their importance decreased. Or do you think, after 300 spartans we would watch 300 armenians?

Yeah Turks have not any moral, we are chickens. I dont think biggest fear of Turkish soldiers are armenian army.

 

I think,when you take(If possibil) all western armenia, You will not any armenian at west or east armenia.(Your population is decreasing body, You first priority should be this. Not some land, you can nor populate neither survive.)

 

 

van is not a turkish city, van has not been taken by traditional and fair warfare, it's population which was till armenian after turkey, was destroyed...

 

morale is still one of the most effective forces in a modern army. want proof?..look at irak,...look at soldiers morale and look at their effectiveness, even thought they are the strongest army in the world.

see, almost every armenian has a relative that has been genocided, or killed by azeris, every armenian has a personal cause. how many turks from istambul would willingly fight for some small shithole like azerbaijan? all that this place does is drain turkish money and resources...

 

 

i never said the armenian military would take the turkish army head-on, this will be gradual. i am not also in favour of promt military action against turkey. im quite aware that this would be foolish.

[hosank]

Indeed, but at least we have freedom to choose hand that we will kiss. what about you? you are a loyal kisser of Russian hand(It dont help you much) and you have no freedom to kiss other hands.

 

hmm....what hand kissing freedom do you really have?....lets see, you must kiss the islamists hands if you don't want an islamic revolution, you must kiss the facsists and the militarists hands, you must kiss the nationalists hands, you kissed the soviet hands before 1991

 

now you kiss the american hand.

you must also kiss the european hand to get your little, islamo turkick country into the the european clique.

 

it is also interesting that those who take away our freedom critisise us for not having it, yet we have more freedom then you do so, ....

[hosank]

another thing...

 

you say that armenia is not included in any development projects, yet, who's blocade is preventing that?

actually, armenian good go through georgia, and the president of georgia is half armenian. georgians simply don't want to cooperate with russians

 

then, we have access to ports like abkazia and so on. anyways, if you say armenia is so troubled economically?, why does armenia have the largest GDP in the caucasus?...yes, even more then the oil filthy azeris

you know what, here is what makes armenia 5 times smarter then the hippies next door: armenia built it's economy on renewable things, and service sector. azerbaijan has built it's, completely on oil. guess what, azeri oil reserves are not that great, and they will disapear. what will happen then? your good american and russian friends will lose interest, your economy will plunder and azerbaijan will be finished

[zurderer]

You make it seem like Turkey is perfect. I know many Armenian immigrants from Istanbul here in the U.S. who have lived there for quite some time (and many have been out of Istanbul) and from what they have told me I think it's safe to say that you guys have a lot more improving to do as well.

 

Economically yes, politically I dont think. We have more than enough ally.I wish some of them is just leave us alone, israel.(Nothing anti-jewish, she is just destroying our fame at middle east.)

 

The Azeris, by the way, are too Russified to give a damn about Turkey. Some have been brainwashed into thinking that speaking "Turkey Turkish" and praising Ataturk is Pan-Turkic/nationalistic. Most, however, speak better Russian (and Armenian) than Turkish.

 

I heard so too.

 

And as far as Turk unity goes, we all know what happened in Kazakhstan a few months ago.

 

You have a weird idea about Turkish community. Turan is not a big priority for us. Infact personally I care for bosnia or macedonia much more than kazakistan, turkmenistan ext.

 

There is railway connection between Armenia and Georgia too. (it wasn't there 10 years ago)

 

I am talking about global projects. Why oil pipelines goes from georgia? ROA would be more economical

 

Why do you think Armenia is so desperate of making friends of his historical enemies? 10 years ago the life was much worse in Armenia why Armenia didn't make friends out of his foes back then? According to you now Armenia needs them so desperately.

 

hmmm. You are wrong about a part. If you look carefully, It is not armenia but Turkey who blockaded ROA. Arent your president always repeat, lets begin negotiation, open borders ext? Maybe he know something?

 

Better death than life on knees. You may not understand the meaning of this because born to crawl can't fly...

 

do you live at ROA eagle? or you are talking about death of others. Yeah, I can sacrify others too.

[zurderer]

van is not a turkish city, van has not been taken by traditional and fair warfare, it's population which was till armenian after turkey, was destroyed...

 

It was taken much before AG.

morale is still one of the most effective forces in a modern army. want proof?..look at irak,...look at soldiers morale and look at their effectiveness, even thought they are the strongest army in the world.

 

Problem is not their morale but their numbers.

 

see, almost every armenian has a relative that has been genocided, or killed by azeris, every armenian has a personal cause. how many turks from istambul would willingly fight for some small shithole like azerbaijan? all that this place does is drain turkish money and resources...

 

How many diasporan armenians helped ROA at karabag war?

 

And we are already fighting some big shit hole.(Kurdistan.) All this place does is drain Turkish money and resources. do this show my people has enough morale?

 

you must also kiss the european hand to get your little, islamo turkick country into the the european clique.

 

yeah, just look at cyprus.

 

you say that armenia is not included in any development projects, yet, who's blocade is preventing that?

 

Turks and azeris. I did not refuse it.

 

actually, armenian good go through georgia, and the president of georgia is half armenian. georgians simply don't want to cooperate with russians

 

They are benefitting ROA-azerbeycan conflict grossly.(Like russia.) I dont realy thing Georgia can help ROA much.

 

then, we have access to ports like abkazia and so on. anyways, if you say armenia is so troubled economically?, why does armenia have the largest GDP in the caucasus?...yes, even more then the oil filthy azeris

you know what, here is what makes armenia 5 times smarter then the hippies next door: armenia built it's economy on renewable things, and service sector. azerbaijan has built it's, completely on oil. guess what, azeri oil reserves are not that great, and they will disapear. what will happen then? your good american and russian friends will lose interest, your economy will plunder and azerbaijan will be finished

 

Ok. Lets talk about some facts.

 

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/am.html

 

ROA Population growth rate: -0.19% (2006 est.)

Azeri Population growth rate: 0.66% (2006 est.)

 

It looks like your population is still decreasing.

 

 

ROA GDP (purchasing power parity): $14.45 billion (2005 est.)

Azeri GDP (purchasing power parity): $42.99 billion (2005 est.)

Georgia GDP (purchasing power parity): $16.03 billion (2005 est.)

 

It looks like ROA has not biggest GDP at caucasus.

 

ROA GDP - real growth rate: 13.9% (2005 est.)

Azeris GDP - real growth rate: 26.4% (2005 est.)

Georgia GDP - real growth rate: 9.3% (2005 est.)

 

If you look carefully, You can easly see, Azeri doubled your gdp growth.

 

 

Georgia GDP - per capita (PPP): $3,400 (2005 est.)

Azeris GDP - per capita (PPP): $5,400 (2005 est.)

ROA GDP - per capita (PPP): $4,800 (2005 est.)

Better than Georgia hmm?

 

 

Lets see, how better wealth distrubition at ROA.

 

ROA Household income or consumption by percentage share: lowest 10%: 1.6% highest 10%: 41.3% (2004)

 

Do you see a problem here? ROA is poor, and poor people of ROA only get 1.6% of total GDP of ROA. They are not fleeing ROA for nothing.

[GevorgP]

 

 

Սիրելի Կեվորք ճան:

 

Ես թէեւ տակաւին առիթ չ՚ունեցայ կարդալու վերի գրութիւնները եւ ոչ ալ Զուրտըրըրի Զիրտըրըրի ցըբըրտուքները, սակայն այս քու դրած ոտանաւորդ շատ շատ սիրուն մի ոտանաւոր է: Արդեօք դո՞ւն ես գրեր թէ ուրիշ մէկն է գրեր բայց շատ աղւոր մի գրութիւն է սա: Շորհակալութիւն եւ ապրիս:

 

 

Սիրելի Անահիտ Թագուհի,

 

Ես այդ ոտանավորը վերջերս եմ գրել եւ առաջին անգամ մեր ֆորումում եմ տպագրել: Շնորհակալ եմ Ձեր ջերմ արձագանքի համար:

 

Ընդհանրապես ասած ես գրողի հավակնություններ չունեմ, բայց այս ոտանավորը ինձ էլ է դուր գալիս, սրա մեջ ինչ որ համահայկական, միավորող շունչ կա:

 

Հաճելի է կարդալ Ձեր հոդվածները եւ մեկնաբանությունները:

 

Հարգանքներով` Գեւորգ

Edited December 27, 2006 by GevorgP

[Takoush]

Սիրելի Անահիտ Թագուհի,

 

Ես այդ ոտանավորը վերջերս եմ գրել եւ առաջին անգամ մեր ֆորումում եմ տպագրել: Շնորհակալ եմ Ձեր ջերմ արձագանքի համար:

 

Ընդհանրապես ասած ես գրողի հավակնություններ չունեմ, բայց այս ոտանավորը ինձ էլ է դուր գալիս, սրա մեջ ինչ որ համահայկական, միավորող շունչ կա:

 

Հաճելի է կարդալ Ձեր հոդվածները եւ մեկնաբանությունները:

 

Հարգանքներով` Գեւորգ

Սիրելի Գեւորգ ճան,

 

Որքան դիւր եկաւ եւ սրտիս խոսեցաւ մեր Հայրենի սուրբ հողին նուիրուած այս քու գրութիւնդ: Ո՛չ ո՛չ թու տաղանդ ունիս Գեւորգ ճան, շարունակէ դուն գրել: Երբ որեւէ մի բանով ներշնչուած կըզգաս պէտք է գրես խնդրեմ:

 

Ես ալ մի քանի կտորներ առաչին անգամ ըլլալով ասկեց առաչ այս Ֆօրումի վրայ գրեցի, բայց դուն շարունակէ գրել շատ հաճելի է գրութիւնդ եւ ներշնչիչ:

 

Շնորհակալ եմ քու ազնիւ խոսքերուդ համար:

 

Նոյնպէս հարգանքներով՝ Անահիտ

[annannimusss]

Zurderer,actually here are the numbers on the PerCapita income and life expectancy,post proper information next time.It is from, http://eurasianet.org/

 

Azerbaijan

Area: 87,000 sq km (33,591 sq mi)

Population: 7,868,385

Capital: Baku 1,800,000

President: Ilham Äliyev

Religion: Muslim 93.4%, Russian Orthodox 2.5%, Armenian Orthodox 2.3%, other 1.8%

Life Expectancy: 63.25 years

GDP per capita: $3,400

 

Armenia

Area: 29,800 sq km (11,506 sq mi)

Population: 2,991,360

Capital: Yerevan 1,254,400

President: Robert Sedraki Kocharian

Religion: Armenian Apostolic 94%, other Christian 4%, Yezidi (Zoroastrian/animist) 2%

Life Expectancy: 71.23 years

GDP per capita: $3,500

 

Georgia

Area: 69,700 sq km

Population: 4,693,892

Capital: Tbilisi 1,253,000

President: Mikhail Saakashvili

Religion: Georgian Orthodox 65%, Muslim 11%, Russian Orthodox 10%, Armenian Apostolic 8%, unknown 6%

Life Expectancy: 75.62 years

GDP per capita: $2,500

[hosank]

we must not forget also that azerbaijan's population is 3 times larger, and azerbaijan's only resource is oil, wait till that dries up my friend

 

yes, van was under the OTTOMAN EMPIRE before 1915, but was not TURKISH..do you get it? cairo was also taken by the ottomans, why don;t you consider it a turkish city?

 

you know how many foes the arstaxtsi fighters faced? they were outnumberd 5 to 1, yet, the casualty rates were 5 to one, 5 being azeris...

strength is not simply balanced in numbers. obviously morale isn't the only thing either...but...it counts for alot.

 

how many diasporan armenians helped in the war? many, people from all over the world, from the us, from canada, from australia went to armenia to fight.

 

i just saw a movie called "un voyage en armenie" it's about an armenian woman from france who rediscovers her roots..but, at one point, a soldier who fought in artsax said that, after, the genocide, and the loss of their lands, the soviets gave karabakh to the azeris, the azeris tried to whipe out an old culture from it's lands. the armenians revolted and the azeris reacted with pogroms. he said that karabakh became the centre of defiance for all armenians, the last stand for our national identity, the banner of armenian resistance, the revenge for 1915"

men from all over the world fought,. at least they had a cause to fight for, the interational force on the azeri side were, afgan mujahedins, mercenaries and so on.

[Takoush]

we must not forget also that azerbaijan's population is 3 times larger, and azerbaijan's only resource is oil, wait till that dries up my friend

 

yes, van was under the OTTOMAN EMPIRE before 1915, but was not TURKISH..do you get it? cairo was also taken by the ottomans, why don;t you consider it a turkish city?

 

you know how many foes the arstaxtsi fighters faced? they were outnumberd 5 to 1, yet, the casualty rates were 5 to one, 5 being azeris...

strength is not simply balanced in numbers. obviously morale isn't the only thing either...but...it counts for alot.

 

how many diasporan armenians helped in the war? many, people from all over the world, from the us, from canada, from australia went to armenia to fight.

 

i just saw a movie called "un voyage en armenie" it's about an armenian woman from france who rediscovers her roots..but, at one point, a soldier who fought in artsax said that, after, the genocide, and the loss of their lands, the soviets gave karabakh to the azeris, the azeris tried to whipe out an old culture from it's lands. the armenians revolted and the azeris reacted with pogroms. he said that karabakh became the centre of defiance for all armenians, the last stand for our national identity, the banner of armenian resistance, the revenge for 1915"

men from all over the world fought,. at least they had a cause to fight for, the interational force on the azeri side were, afgan mujahedins, mercenaries and so on.

Dear patriotic friend Hosank:

 

What you put out above it is not only true; but think, this is the second time it has happened in our world. First it was our 1918 resistance when Armenian women, men, and even old men and probably even children fought in the Republic with all their might and with their last breath for our independence after the 1915, because we didn't want to be totally and completely wiped out by the enemy, and now again in 1990 in Artsax. Armenians from all over the world went to fight for the independence of Artsax. I have long heard that Artsax Armenians are also very brave people.

 

But when in 1915 the Ittihadists pretty much wiped us out they have put a huge fire in our bosom, in every Armenian creature's bosom and that is FOR OUR RACE ON EARTH TO SURVIVE!!!!!!!!!! As we don't wish the 1915's to happen again and we all want the survival of our nationality!!!!!

Edited December 28, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[GevorgP]

Ok, I think you will find me enough calm and objective. I hope you will show same objectiveness too.

 

 

 

GevorgP

 

Let discuss the subject by points, without emotions.

 

Zerederer Answered

 

Ok, I think you will find me enough calm and objective. I hope you will show same objectiveness too.

 

 

 

GevorgP

 

At Armenian Genocide two million, not armed, Armenians didn't kiss the hands of the Turks; in terms of becoming Muslim and being saved, which is allowed by your religion. Do you agree?

 

Zerederer Answered

 

No, I am not. As I said before, you have and had not freedom to choose hand you will kiss. Infact a lot conversion happened but after more than enough conversion, Young Turks banned it. So Armenians had no chance to convert.

Also dont be naive, If young Turks were so religious, they wont punish innocents. It is against my religion too.

 

 

 

Point 1

 

No, I am not. As I said before, you have and had not freedom to choose hand you will kiss.

 

 

 

 

 

You are right, we don’t have the kind of freedom, always, as proved by the history, it belongs to you.

 

 

Conduction virtual “war” on distance, you know, is not that prestigious. In any case I’m trying to be objective.

 

 

Point 2

 

Also dont be naive, If young Turks were so religious, they wont punish innocents.

 

 

 

Thus, you claim, that “young Turks were not that religious” and they killed innocent Armenian’s: thanks for your confession. I appreciate; this is why we are differentiating the old and young generations of Turks. So you accept that the “young Turks ” killed innocent people, and took all their belongings, land, homes, etc. The property could be eventually compensated. But what about the life, doesn’t it cost your deep apology on behalf of your grandparents?

 

[/size]

 

Point 3

 

It is against my religion too.

 

 

You claim that your religion is against killing innocent people: If it is the case, please explain the followings:

 

1) Whether or not, except Muslims, all others: Christians, Buddhists etc. are considered as “Non-Believers” - “Gyavur”-s.

 

2) Under what circumstances Islam calls for “Holy war against Non-Believers”: as, for instance, in case of USA September 11-th tragedy.

 

3) What is difference between “Holy War” and “Jihad”.

 

4) Is it true that the suicide bombers; the walking weapons, are taking courses on Islamic schools, and if they are assured that after accomplishing the mission, will be sent to paradise, immediately.

 

 

Note please that according Christian religion killing people is a sin, regardless. Bible does not accept any justification for that.

 

 

 

GevorgP

 

I agree that Armenia can not boast on population reproduction rate and that the Turks are the best in the Industry. But let's discuss the production quality a little bit:

 

Zerederer Answered

 

My friend, your problem at RoA is not birth rate. Problem is that Armenians are leaving RoA. Their beloved, sacret land.

 

Point 1

 

My friend, your problem at RoA is not birth rate.

 

 

 

So you agree that Turkey has the best rate, but don’t want to boast on that. Then let me to develop the subject a little bit:

 

 

Turkey’s competitive advantage, so far, is the birth rate. And you have a big problem there too:

 

 

According to statistical data only in EU; three millions of Turks, each year, are engaged in temporary outside work: if each worker will earn $10,000 per season; it makes $30 billion per year. If eventually EU countries, such as France, Germany, etc. will ban the Turks entry, how the Turks are going to survive? What would be the aftereffect?

 

 

Does the France, Germany, Greece, etc., Christian countries, like the Turks most; to allow them working in their countries forever?

 

 

Armenian’s also are emigrating for temporary work abroad, though in much smaller numbers. May be they should not, because this is Turks world wide recognized privilege?

 

 

The nation’s survival is based on their ability of developing new technologies and selling it to third countries; that is the future will belong to QUALITY and never to the “Industrial product”.

 

 

 

Point 2

 

Problem is that Armenians are leaving RoA. Their beloved, sacret land.

 

 

So your only argument is the Armenian’s emigration. Sorry but, for instance, this year Armenian Construction Industry growth is 27%. This is mostly due to Armenian’s immigration: they construct homes and industrial buildings on their sacred and safe land, some people are not moving, but still are building; homes in RoA, as a “reserve” for future.

 

 

GevorgP

 

Can you name please some great Turk scientists that are world wide known, I don't mean Historians, I mean physics, mathematicians, biologists, etc.

 

Zerederer didn’t Answer

 

N/A

 

 

Sir you probably are waiting with this answer until; your paramount reproduction rate will find a solution to this question in coming centuries?

 

The nation’s survival is based on their ability of developing new technologies and selling it to third countries; that is the future will belong to QUALITY.

 

 

GevorgP

 

Armenians are winners of the recent World Chess Championship, and they are recognized as the most intelligent chessman in the World, which is indicator of their nation's intelligence rate. In past, Russia, EU countries, India, China, Georgia and other countries, several times became the winners. But regardless of the prominent reproduction rate there are no Turks in the Chess Olympus

 

Zerederer Answered

 

Your history doesnot show that chess masters. Where were they, when they were needed. Also I dont see a genious rule at ROA.

 

 

 

Point 1

 

Your history doesnot show that chess masters. Where were they, when they were needed.

 

 

Can you tell me which country is the last World Team Chess Championship winner according to historical records? And do your Historians agree that Tigran Petrosyan is Armenian?

 

Note please that Armenian Chessmasters in past, within the USSR team, have been the best, after its collapse situation is not changed much.

 

 

Point 2

 

Also I dont see a genious rule at ROA.

 

 

Our leaders and government are not the best, but our Defense minister, can not boycott trade with other countries, as it has been done by Turkey Defense Minister against France. Because the authority is not delegated to the position according our constitution. That is in your case the rule is: who is mighty; he is right, the same applies to jungle.

 

 

GevorgP Wrote

 

The only thing that matters in the nowadays World, and is critical for their countries FUTURE survival, is QUALITY!

 

Zerederer Answered

 

That quality quantity discussion is absurd.Or do you think, Armenians have some gens superior to turks?

 

 

 

Point 1

 

That quality quantity discussion is absurd.

 

 

Do you agree that the Developed countries are selling to the Third World countries (such as Turkey, Turkeybijan, etc. only the outdated military equipment, against which they already have effective weapons to destroy them easily (only the fools can act otherwise, because the weapons can be used against them)?

 

 

You know, that Armenia is Russian’s ally and they have military bases in Armenia where the new up to date military technology is deployed: which can destroy the ones sold to the “Third”-s?

 

 

So by spending billions of oil revenues; and buying old bombardiers from Ukraine and Turkeybijan cannot exceed RoA in the area. Hereinafter we would never loose any battle on our historical ancient soil, because, as opposed to Azeries we have roots there and now we are united.

 

 

The nation’s survival is based on their ability of developing new technologies and selling it to third countries; that is the future will belong to QUALITY and never to the “product”.

 

 

Point 2

 

Or do you think, Armenians have some gens superior to turks?

 

 

World used to say that the Jews are the most intelligent nation, and even though I don’t like them: whenever someone asks me the question I answer; “Jews”.

 

We are not used to evaluate ourselves, please ask it to someone else, abroad.

[hosank]

yes.

 

if there is any chance to survive, we will take it. we learned our lesson once, do not trust your islamo turkish rulers 1915..we don't make the same mistake.

[Takoush]

yes.

 

if there is any chance to survive, we will take it. we learned our lesson once, do not trust your islamo turkish rulers 1915..we don't make the same mistake.

Ayo hayrenagits ayo.

[irlandahay]

yes.

 

if there is any chance to survive, we will take it. we learned our lesson once, do not trust your islamo turkish rulers 1915..we don't make the same mistake.

 

raffi

 

dont waste your time on zerderer. hes not much different then all the other tursk wev encountered.

 

hes not worth it mate

 

cheers

[hosank]

1) մաիտդ չ'եմ աղբերդ եմ

2) կարեւորը չէ վիժաբանիլ թուրքի մը հետ բայց ոտարներուն սորվեցնել չարդին մասին ու Հայաստանին մասին թուրքը միտքը չի պիտի փոխի -- Նա թուրք է ! ոտարները պէտք է հասքանում ըլլան

Ես ա ճամանակ ունիմ թուրքի վրայ անցկացնելու

 

so, cheers yourself commie.

 

Անա դու հասկանում ես լաւ ե. լաւ

[zurderer]

Zurderer,actually here are the numbers on the PerCapita income and life expectancy,post proper information next time.It is from, http://eurasianet.org/

I think CIA fact book is a proper source.

yes, van was under the OTTOMAN EMPIRE before 1915, but was not TURKISH..do you get it? cairo was also taken by the ottomans, why don;t you consider it a turkish city?

 

Because It is not under Turkish authority.

 

you know how many foes the arstaxtsi fighters faced? they were outnumberd 5 to 1, yet, the casualty rates were 5 to one, 5 being azeris...

strength is not simply balanced in numbers. obviously morale isn't the only thing either...but...it counts for alot.

 

Bullets have no morals.

how many diasporan armenians helped in the war? many, people from all over the world, from the us, from canada, from australia went to armenia to fight.

 

I heard they are few.

 

 

 

You are right, we don’t have the kind of freedom, always, as proved by the history, it belongs to you.

 

we had states at last 1000-1500 years, having states give some freedom.

 

Thus, you claim, that “young Turks were not that religious” and they killed innocent Armenian’s: thanks for your confession. I appreciate; this is why we are differentiating the old and young generations of Turks. So you accept that the “young Turks ” killed innocent people, and took all their belongings, land, homes, etc. The property could be eventually compensated. But what about the life, doesn’t it cost your deep apology on behalf of your grandparents?

 

some of my ancestors(Young Turks are supported by armenians too) killed your ancestors. Ok, that is true.So why should I apology because some bastards killed innocents? It is not my crime. Compensations are different issues, yeah Armenian should be compensated.(I am saying this because of idea of justice. States dont interest with justice, but real politics. So most probably Turkish state never will say this.)

 

 

You claim that your religion is against killing innocent people: If it is the case, please explain the followings:

 

we are changing this a religious discussion.

 

1) Whether or not, except Muslims, all others: Christians, Buddhists etc. are considered as “Non-Believers” - “Gyavur”-s.

 

are you believing Allah and Muhammed? do you see me as christian believer?

 

2) Under what circumstances Islam calls for “Holy war against Non-Believers”: as, for instance, in case of USA September 11-th tragedy.

 

only for helping innocents or protecting themself. Cihad must not be done against non-muslims. It can be done against muslim too. Also acording to Prophet, biggest cihat is war against person himself(his sins.)

 

Pratically? every ashole use islam, and declare cihat against others.

 

3) What is difference between “Holy War” and “Jihad”.

 

Holy war? You mean crusades? Islam have not a rome or church structures. We are decentrilized people. So dont take every cihat claim serious, because most of the muslims dont.

 

4) Is it true that the suicide bombers; the walking weapons, are taking courses on Islamic schools, and if they are assured that after accomplishing the mission, will be sent to paradise, immediately.

 

Most probably, I have not much info about these special islamic schools. I should also add, their only aim is not non-muslims. They attacked muslims at the istanbul too.

 

Also Their attacks were against islam itself. Never-ever, even at the war times, Islam permit to attack religious buildings. They attacked a sinegouge in Istanbul.

 

 

Note please that according Christian religion killing people is a sin, regardless. Bible does not accept any justification for that.

 

Hmm, even at wars? So tell this the pope.

 

Armenian’s also are emigrating for temporary work abroad, though in much smaller numbers. May be they should not, because this is Turks world wide recognized privilege?

 

No, they can go anywhere they want, but they are not doing this much smaller number(Compared with their popuation.) Anyway, this is not problem for me, but problem for ROA.

 

The nation’s survival is based on their ability of developing new technologies and selling it to third countries; that is the future will belong to QUALITY and never to the “Industrial product”.

 

Without man power, you cannot have technologies ext. Also technologies is not a default thing comes with education or intelligent. It need a lot money, a lot resource, a lot “Industrial product”.

 

 

So your only argument is the Armenian’s emigration. Sorry but, for instance, this year Armenian Construction Industry growth is 27%. This is mostly due to Armenian’s immigration: they construct homes and industrial buildings on their sacred and safe land, some people are not moving, but still are building; homes in RoA, as a “reserve” for future.

 

You cannot have lands without mans.

 

Sir you probably are waiting with this answer until; your paramount reproduction rate will find a solution to this question in coming centuries?

 

No, I dont. I am absolutely aware of my country and her problems. I accept my country is economically broken. It is you who is unawere of realities.

 

Our leaders and government are not the best, but our Defense minister, can not boycott trade with other countries, as it has been done by Turkey Defense Minister against France.

 

There is not official boycott. Also boycott is only another weapon at international politics.(As you see, at ROA, It can be effective.)

 

 

That is in your case the rule is: who is mighty; he is right, the same applies to jungle.

 

we are living at a global jungle. Just look at iraq, chechenia, or palestine.

 

Do you agree that the Developed countries are selling to the Third World countries (such as Turkey, Turkeybijan, etc. only the outdated military equipment, against which they already have effective weapons to destroy them easily (only the fools can act otherwise, because the weapons can be used against them)?

 

Not excatly, some times, You can buy fine staff too. They just hide their best technology. Of course, building your own weapon is better.

You know, that Armenia is Russian’s ally and they have military bases in Armenia where the new up to date military technology is deployed: which can destroy the ones sold to the “Third”-s?

 

You are only a peon at russian chess table. They wont attack, Turkey because of you.

 

 

Hereinafter we would never loose any battle on our historical ancient soil, because, as opposed to Azeries we have roots there and now we are united.

 

Then, greeks would not occupy your lands, then we would not live at anatolia, but central asia.

 

The nation’s survival is based on their ability of developing new technologies and selling it to third countries; that is the future will belong to QUALITY and never to the “product”.

 

new technologies are only an other products, nothing more.. one need more human body less mind, other need less body more mind. But absolutely both need, human.

[Johannes]

I did not read what wrote above.

 

The fact that a turk, after the Armenian Genocide and after the annihilation of our country and our culture is still zirding or zurding.

 

Turks tried to invade Europe as they done in Anatolia & Armenia, but they did not succeed.

 

Now, turks are trying to invade Europe in different tactic. They are trying to enter there under the name of democracy, by sharing European values, but the turks are turks, they did not change.

 

Some stupid Europeans think if turkey did not be a member of Europe might she become a fundamentalist. This is a very silly and sketchy thinking.