Turkish Product

[Arvestaked]

.... anyway most Turks in Turkey are blind about our side they are being shown the fake side, claiming it was not a Genocide and that Armenians killed Turks which is absurd. Not all Turks hate Armenians, I've talked to some who said don't let the Genocide deniers give us a bad name, since he supports the Armenians, his grandparents were witnesses of the Genocide by Turks, his grandfather said they rounded up the men and started killing them in the villages but there was little they could do or the Turks that stored Armenians in there houses for protection.

 

Nobody would deny that this is true to some degree but it has nothing to do with boycotting Turkish products out of principle.

[Dave]

Turkish products are sold to Armenians in Lebanon and Syria too. Even in Canada, some Armenians buy Turkish products. A Lebanese grocery store near my house sells it and it has a lot of Armenian clients. For example I've seen products called Ulker (pretzel sticks which I think are Turkish) and Hazer Baba products. Fortunately this grocery store sells some Armenian products as well.

 

The other thing that annoys me is the fact that many Armenians listen to Turkish songs and watch TV shows, but these are more popular with the older generations. It's despicable. My Armenian teacher at first grade used to tell us that if we see our parents listen to Turkish music, we should smash the cassettes lol

Edited June 13, 2007 by Dave

[nairi]

OMG, you guys make it sound like Armenians actually have the power to make a difference in Turkish economy by boycotting their products! This is such a myth. Armenians are perhaps Turkey's smallest consumers. And yes, I buy Turkish products, and I don't feel guilty about it. I certainly do not hate Turks, especially those that have never done me any harm, which is the largest majority. I find it disturbing that there are Armenians who are spreading the hatred further, instead of letting go. Turkey does not own us, so why do we still act as if our survival depends on them, as if they are still our masters and we their slaves? As a "counterattack," if you wish to have one, we should create an industry in Armenia that will sell products to among others Turkish consumers.

[Arvestaked]

OMG, you guys make it sound like Armenians actually have the power to make a difference in Turkish economy by boycotting their products! This is such a myth. Armenians are perhaps Turkey's smallest consumers. And yes, I buy Turkish products, and I don't feel guilty about it. I certainly do not hate Turks, especially those that have never done me any harm, which is the largest majority. I find it disturbing that there are Armenians who are spreading the hatred further, instead of letting go. Turkey does not own us, so why do we still act as if our survival depends on them, as if they are still our masters and we their slaves? As a "counterattack," if you wish to have one, we should create an industry in Armenia that will sell products to among others Turkish consumers.

 

 

Again, it has nothing to with affecting the Turkish economy.

 

It also has nothing to do with hatred.

 

I don't disagree that we need to enhance the industry of Armenia. However, Turks have an embargo against Armenia. The hypothetical Armenian industry should be used to replace Turkish products marketted to the diaspora.

Edited June 13, 2007 by Arvestaked

[nairi]

However, Turks have an embargo against Armenia.

 

Although this is true, it is a myth that this is making a difference for the Armenian economy.

[Arvestaked]

Although this is true, it is a myth that this is making a difference for the Armenian economy.

 

I didn't say it was making a difference to the Armenian economy. I was responding to your comment about "counterattacks".

[Dave]

Why should we let go? THEY should let go, and stop suffocating Armenia economically. It doesn't matter if it won't make a significant impact, but boycotting Turkish products certainly gets the message across. If, for example, Turkish exporters notice that their products aren't selling in a certain region of the US (Glendale) they'd take note of the fact that Armenians boycott Turkey. Of course there are a few good Turks who seem to accept the Armenian genocide and who are ready to say sorry, but the Turkish government isn't like that at all. Why should we let Turkey profit from what is supposed to be our money and from the products that we are supposed to export ourselves?

 

An anecdote that came to mind:

Once, I was offered Turkish sweets by a relative of mine, and on the box it was written that the company existed since 1915. Surprising, isn't it? Whatever that was used to produce those sweets were probably owned by Armenians, previously.

 

Of course, there's an alternative. We could, as you and Arvestaked have suggested, complement the boycott by making industries in Armenia that would replace those Turkish products. However I don't see how selling stuff to Turkey would help our boycott; you're talking as if there's no blockade at all... But it's easier said than done.

 

[DominO123]

OMG, you guys make it sound like Armenians actually have the power to make a difference in Turkish economy by boycotting their products! This is such a myth. Armenians are perhaps Turkey's smallest consumers. And yes, I buy Turkish products, and I don't feel guilty about it. I certainly do not hate Turks, especially those that have never done me any harm, which is the largest majority. I find it disturbing that there are Armenians who are spreading the hatred further, instead of letting go. Turkey does not own us, so why do we still act as if our survival depends on them, as if they are still our masters and we their slaves? As a "counterattack," if you wish to have one, we should create an industry in Armenia that will sell products to among others Turkish consumers.

 

So hell vegetarians who think they are making a difference, hell those who personally recycle, hell those who personally drive smaller cars or take the bike. To hell those who boycott Disney because they build many of their products in factories around the world who use child labour.

[vava]

So hell vegetarians who think they are making a difference, hell those who personally recycle, hell those who personally drive smaller cars or take the bike. To hell those who boycott Disney because they build many of their products in factories around the world who use child labour.

 

agreed.

I don't think anyone here is kidding themselves into thinking that we could make a dent in the Turkish ecomony. But this is a personal decision, and it's a grass-roots type of statement. I will not knowingly buy Turkish goods until relations are normalised (and that includes removal of the trade embargo). It's a principle and I don't think this kind of individual grass roots action should in anyway replace alternate efforts to build Armenia's economy. However, to deliberately support the industry of a country that is actively engaged in hostile trade practices against Armenia (or to not even care) is not very helpful at all.

Edited June 15, 2007 by vava

[Sip]

I try not to buy anything Turkish. Sometimes I am not aware things are made in Turkey but if I know, then I don't buy. Also anything that sounds Turkish but is made in Bulgaria or similar places I don't buy.

[vava]

I try not to buy anything Turkish. Sometimes I am not aware things are made in Turkey but if I know, then I don't buy. Also anything that sounds Turkish but is made in Bulgaria or similar places I don't buy.

 

What's wrong with Bulgarian products? Does Bulgaria have an embargo against Armenia that I'm not aware of?

[MosJan]

What's wrong with Bulgarian products? Does Bulgaria have an embargo against Armenia that I'm not aware of?

 

No Vavajan - many Turkish Co's have their good's packaged or caned in Bulgaria - on the end it has a Made in Bulgaria sticker on it + someone in this forum was saying that if you import good from Bulgaria you get a TAX brake - something like IAFTA w/ Mexico

 

it's not only the Turkish or boycotting this or that -

2 days a go was in a store in Pasadena - on the shelf you see iman Bayeld@ (Sorry) or roasted pepers - turshu ( Sorry ) - man haw hard is it to roast a bell pepper ?? or to make a iman bayeld@ ( Sorry Sorry )

you can make a home made turshu ( sorry sorry sorry sorry ) in less then 7 days - and you can use product that you know you can trust...

how lazzzzyy are we getting - + all that additives Sodium and Sh***

[Sassun]

Unfortunately in Lebanon many Armenians buy and consume Turkish products. As for me, I have made it a habit to look at the 'made in' info on every single product that I buy, for the sole purpose of avoiding buying any Turkish products, even if they might be much cheaper .

 

Even if it will not make a difference, it is also an issue of principles.

[MosJan]

CAUCASIAN ENEMIES ENGAGE IN UNOFFICIAL TRADE

 

*

 

Karabakh conflict doesn’t stop Armenians and Azeris buying each others’ goods.

 

By Sabuhi Mammedli in Baku, Lusine Musaelian in Stepanakert and Naira Melkumian in Yerevan

 

Armenia and Azerbaijan have no official ties but goods from the two neighbours manage to slip round the closed borders and into each others’ shops despite official efforts to keep them out.

 

Even shops in Nagorno-Karabakh, where ethnic Armenians broke free of Azeri control in a war that ended in 1994 but still poisons relations between Baku and Yerevan, stock Azeri tea. It is, residents say, too good to miss out on.

 

“I have Azeri tea in my shop, and it is much in demand here,” said shop assistant Ashot Hayrapetian.

 

“We buy this tea in Yerevan and sell it in great quantities. The tea is very popular with old people, who say that once you’ve tasted it, you will want no other tea.”

 

Across the border, which is still patrolled by troops and bristling with weapons, Azeri shops occasionally stock Armenian brandy, the country’s most famous export.

 

Azerbaijani Salekh Mamedov, 52, who is a lover of wine and port, told IWPR he didn’t mind drinking good cognac, even if it was Armenian.

 

“I still remember how Ararat tasted,” he said, referring to the most famous Armenian brand of brandy. “Of course, we can’t forget about the lost lands, but goods don’t matter, do they?”

 

But many people on both sides of the border think they do matter, saying buying such products amounts to giving support to the enemy.

 

“Armenian goods are mostly smuggled in through markets on the border between Georgia and Armenia,” said Eyub Husseinov, chairman of Azerbaijan’s Free Consumers Association.

 

“Trains for Baku and Yerevan depart from the railway station in Tbilisi every 40 minutes. In that time, many Azerbaijanis and Armenians communicate and even trade with each other. I have seen this with my own eyes more than once.”

 

Azerbaijan’s state customs department said such unofficial trade was the only real source of Armenian goods in Azerbaijan.

 

“The few Armenian goods that emerge on the local counters now and then are mainly brought in from Georgia by individuals and in allowable quantities,” said a spokesman.

 

“These may be confined to two or three boxes of cigarettes or a couple of bottles of cognac. What can the customs do in such cases? Citizens themselves should have enough patriotic spirit to stop them buying goods made in the enemy country.”

 

Occasionally, shops are found selling Armenian goods. A shop in Baku was caught selling Armenian coffee wholesale last year. The whole stock was confiscated and destroyed.

 

“Just the other day, our agents found napkins made by a ‘Markarian AE’ on the shelves of a shop in the Khachmaz district,” said Husseinov. Markarian is a typical Armenian name.

 

“The owner of the shop said he had brought them from Georgia, that when buying them he did not pay attention to the label.”

 

He said Jubilee brandy, Areni wines and Cigarone cigarettes were among the most popular Armenian goods in Azerbaijan.

 

“The bottle of the Areni wine bears a label that shows a map of Armenia embracing Nagorny Karabakh - our lands! - as part of it,” he said angrily. “How dare citizens of Azerbaijan buy these goods and - what’s worse - bring them into the country?”

 

One 47-year-old owner of a wine shop in the centre of Baku said that Armenian brandy did appear in his shop now and then.

 

“My partner in Georgia sends the brandy to me every three or four months,” he said. “Sometimes it is ten bottles a time. I must admit that Armenian cognac has always been in demand here because of its good quality and taste. I have regular clients who favour this cognac.”

 

Tea is nowadays the only Azeri product to be seen in Karabakh’s shops and markets, although over the years chocolate, sweets and flour have also been sold there.

 

Valery Simonian, chief of quality control at Nagorny Karabakh’s ministry for territorial management and infrastructure development, said goods that had no Armenian information on their packaging were banned from sale in Karabakh.

 

“We are entitled to deliver a written warning or ban this or that product from sale,” said Simonian. “But goods are imported by private traders and we are not in a position to control every one of them.”

 

A saleswoman called Anahit in Stepanakert told IWPR that customers could choose between Azerbaijan’s Azerchai tea and tea imported from Turkey.

 

“But Azerchai sells better, as it is cheaper and of a higher quality,” said Anahit. “Besides, it is Azeri tea, not Turkish tea that is famous all over the world for its taste and properties.”

 

Azerchai is also popular in Armenia, especially among Armenians who fled Azerbaijan during the armed conflict.

 

“I always buy this tea, because its brew is so strong and wonderful,” said Yerevan resident Tatiana Babaian, 55, who used to live in Baku. “Baku Armenians are famous tea-drinkers.”

 

“Most probably, this is contraband, which should not be allowed into trade outlets, but the market is difficult to control,” said Anahit Voskanian, spokesman for Armenia’s economy and trade ministry.

 

“Even if there were many officers, they wouldn’t be able to monitor the whole of Armenia and Karabakh. The same applies to the trade in Armenian cognac in Azerbaijan.”

 

Armenian customs officials say no large quantities of Azeri goods had entered the country for three years, and the trade was conducted by individuals.

 

“Armenia’s laws don’t forbid importation of commodities from a country with which we have no diplomatic ties,” Gagik Kocharian, head of the trade and services department at the trade and economy ministry, told IWPR.

 

“There’s no avoiding the fact we are neighbours with Armenia,” Novruz Mamedov, chief of the international relations department of the Azeri presidential administration, told the APA news agency.

 

“Of course, political, economic and cultural relations between our countries will be restored one day. However, so long as our lands remain occupied by Armenia, it’s wrong to bring their goods into our country and thus help them earn money.”

 

And some residents refuse to even countenance buying goods that originate over the border.

 

Ashraf Aliev, a 39-year-old resident of Baku, said he could not understand people who sold Armenian goods in Azerbaijan nor those who bought them.

 

“We have no shortage of any sort of commodities. So why should we use Armenian goods? They would not mind poisoning us and doing harm to us once more,” he said.

 

Karabakh resident Marina, 42, is equally wary of Azeri products.

 

“Even in the starving war years, we never used the flour that was brought in from Baku for free, and, all the more, I won’t buy goods from Azerbaijan now,” she said.

 

“They would profit from my buying their goods. Besides, there’s the risk factor – you never know what these products might contain.”

 

Sabuhi Mammadli is a correspondent of the newspaper Yeni Musavat, Baku. Lusine Musaelian is a correspondent of the newspaper Demo, Stepanakert. Naira Melkumian is a correspondent of the news agency Arka, Yerevan

 

This article is a product of IWPR’s Cross Caucasus Journalism Network funded by the European Union and other donors. Institute for War and Peace Reporting’s Caucasus Reporting Service

[DeLaLa]

lol ... hello everyone in here ... i really have to laugh when i read all yor posts here .... do you people know that the airplanes Yerevan / Istanbul (which fly a couple of times a day back and forth) are totally packed all year through ? most of the armenians buy big bags full of clothes and other things in the kapali tsharshe (bazaar) to sell it in hayastan . to earn money . and you people complain about a little bit of dolma-leaves and pakhlava from turkey . it is grotesque what you are all writing here lol ... Edited July 22, 2007 by DeLaLa

[ED]

its about USA Armenians who buy Turkish products, products which are available from Armenian as well, far superior in quality

 

example are countless, few weeks ago i got in an argument with Iranian-Armenian shop owner who sells Turkish pickled pepers

the same product is available from Armenia....much much better ones, but he said customers are mostly Polsahays and would not buy Armenian goods.

 

same for miniral water and etc.....

 

buy the way, how is dolma laity? looks like you need to a Good Armenian dolma

 

[DeLaLa]

the same product is available from Armenia....much much better ones, but he said customers are mostly Polsahays and would not buy Armenian goods.

 

Edwardjaaaaan ... iyaaa ... ok let me tell you my speculation of this sentence . how about "the same product is available from Armenia but to make business with armenia is a pain in the vorig , they bully you wherever they can and take the money but dont send your products in a proper way" so , edward wouldnt it be easier in this case to do say "customers are mostly Polsahays and would not buy Armenian goods" ??? lol

Edited July 22, 2007 by DeLaLa

[AVO]

DeLaLa jan, Armenians in Armenia have very few choices. Its either local, Turkish or Iranian qualities of the later two are the same if not worse, considering that Armenian people probably buy the cheapest products available. Here in the US especially in LA we have a choice. And by buying Armenian products we directly help Armenia to improve its economy and its products. By buying Turkish we do the opposite, We directly help a country that has been blockading our homeland for more than a decade.

[DeLaLa]

Avonjan, yes you are in theory absolutely right , and i can fully understand your oppinion . what i basically wanted to point out is that there are also lots of armenian businessmen all over the world who have had very bad experience with working together with armenia and that you must count with the fact that lots of them just got fed up with having to deal with those headaches . so if the foodproducts come on time and money transfers are correct from turkish businessmen in comparison to a corrupt armenian businessman , then it should be logical that armenians prefer dealing with the more shnorkov . am i wrong? besides that i do believe that at first place it is more important to the armenian-supermarket owner to earn a lot of money , then thinking about boykotting things . look , avo , for example for comparison ...if there was war and everyone would be short of food , and the only food available in that time would be meat ... do you think that vegetarians in that case would still refuse to eat meat because of idealistic reasons and die of hunger ? i dont think so . Edited July 22, 2007 by DeLaLa

[AVO]

DeLaLa jan I know exactly what your saying. Do you think that Armenian businessman want more money because they have to compete with the Turkish ones? And also remember that capitalism is fairly new in Armenia, it hasn't completely changed the old soviet corruption mentality and the only way to change it if they practice. Plus if a seller thinks he can "ktsel" me I would certainly try to "ktsel" him. It's just simple Ար-եվ-տուր and Armenians are very good at it.

[DeLaLa]

DeLaLa jan I know exactly what your saying. Do you think that Armenian businessman want more money because they have to compete with the Turkish ones? And also remember that capitalism is fairly new in Armenia, it hasn't completely changed the old soviet corruption mentality and the only way to change it if they practice. Plus if a seller thinks he can "ktsel" me I would certainly try to "ktsel" him. It's just simple Ար-եվ-տուր and Armenians are very good at it.

 

Avo , ok , lets say you have a market in LA and you order armenian cognac from yerevan ... you pay for lets say 1000 botlles but you only receive 672 bottles ... lets then say you open these cognac bottles to try the "good" cognac but you unfortunaly find out that the filling is not cognac BUT some weird water-piss mixture ... what would you do in such case?

 

another example for you Avo... the finance minister of armenia is looking for a businessmen in the diaspora who would supply the whole armenian airline staff of armenia with pilot and stewardess outfits . so the finance minister finds a diasporant businessman and the pact is made ... the clothes all arrive from the production , but this businessman never sees one single cent ever through his life ? Avo , what would you do in that case?

[AVO]

Dalala, lets say you're the businesswoman who got the order of 1000 cogniacs. Would you sent only 672 bottles and of poor quality? or would you sent 1010 bottles so the person buying it can drink your kenats. A smart business person will never cheat his customers, because if he did he loose them. Your view of Armenian business people as lying, cheating, corrupt etc... is really wrong. I'm not saying that all of them are saints but majority of them are honest people who want to make living and by cheating your customers you won't go too far.

[DominO123]

Avo , ok , lets say you have a market in LA and you order armenian cognac from yerevan ... you pay for lets say 1000 botlles but you only receive 672 bottles ... lets then say you open these cognac bottles to try the "good" cognac but you unfortunaly find out that the filling is not cognac BUT some weird water-piss mixture ... what would you do in such case?

 

Can you provide any evidences that this represent what is doing business with Armenia? If you have none you should stop with such speculations or similar craps. The last thing Armenia needs is such publicity.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Domino

[karnoug]

Avonjan, yes you are in theory absolutely right , and i can fully understand your oppinion . what i basically wanted to point out is that there are also lots of armenian businessmen all over the world who have had very bad experience with working together with armenia and that you must count with the fact that lots of them just got fed up with having to deal with those headaches . so if the foodproducts come on time and money transfers are correct from turkish businessmen in comparison to a corrupt armenian businessman , then it should be logical that armenians prefer dealing with the more shnorkov . am i wrong? besides that i do believe that at first place it is more important to the armenian-supermarket owner to earn a lot of money , then thinking about boykotting things . look , avo , for example for comparison ...if there was war and everyone would be short of food , and the only food available in that time would be meat ... do you think that vegetarians in that case would still refuse to eat meat because of idealistic reasons and die of hunger ? i dont think so .

Actually, I wanted to point a mistake in your argument. The individual stores do not deal with the exporting country, therefore all they really do is go to the distributor and buy domestically. The distributor is the one who deals with the export/import process.

[AVO]

Thank you karnouq, I was saving that for my next post. How would an Armenian business person profit if he cheats the import/export distributor who buys not just for one store but for 100's. If he cheats the distributor he'll loose considerable amount of his profits, because no person in their right mind would order products from him anymore. Not only that but the word that he cheats people would spread so fast, that nobody would do business with him. Hence he'll go out of business... Just like Domino said if you don't have any proof you need to stop being so negative to your own kind.

 

Oh and I ate Dolma yesterday and the leaves were from Armenia... delicious

Edited July 23, 2007 by Avo47