phantom22 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 No Armenian guys that you would want to date/marry? Could you explain why? What is it about your Jewish boyfriend that makes your heart leap? Obviously this Jewish guy is a modern Jew, a western Jew. Most of our Armenian guys are living in the Middle Ages. The enforcement of traditional beliefs by our leadership does nothing but perpetuate the bleeding. Modernity does not mean that you have to discard your heritage, just its anchronisms. LOL, Actually there were no Armenian guys that I would want to date/marry... Even though have many Armenian guy friends. And you're right, my happiness should come first... It's just hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakachik77 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) Dianjan, if he makes you happy, go for him. Jewish culture is (in my opinion) very similar to the Armenian one, their family interactions etc. If the baptism issue is bothering you then sit down and explain exactly why you/Armenians value that tradition. Explain our history and how baptism is closely linked to the preservation of culture. He might be regarding the baptism as something you want to do against his religion. Explain him that you do not want it to make the kids less Jewish, it is just a very important component of the Armenian tradition since we have been exterminated. It is in a way a celebration of the fact that we as a culture still exist and is not a strictly religious observation. And by the way, I just got back from Israel, it's a great country in spite of the problems and btw there are armenians there, recent immigrants who intermarried jews and went to live there Edited January 25, 2006 by kakachik77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianjan Posted January 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 No Armenian guys that you would want to date/marry? Could you explain why? What is it about your Jewish boyfriend that makes your heart leap? Obviously this Jewish guy is a modern Jew, a western Jew. Most of our Armenian guys are living in the Middle Ages. The enforcement of traditional beliefs by our leadership does nothing but perpetuate the bleeding. Modernity does not mean that you have to discard your heritage, just its anchronisms. Well, he's a great person, I love him and I know he trully loves me. He's very family oriented and has a great heart. He just proved himself so many times over and over how awesome he is and I love him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianjan Posted January 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Dianjan, ultimately it's the love that matters. If you and your fiance really love each other your children will be fine. Children are the product of love between a man and a woman (quoting my mom of course, as I'm yet to experience that) and it looks like you'll be fine. Best wishes! Thank you very much... I will keep you posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianjan Posted January 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I have to say I am surprised with so much negative comments. SO what if the kids are baptized or not? So what if the kids wear yamakas or not. Why is religion so important to you guys? Are you telling me if you are in an accident and need a blood transfusion you are going to say "give me Armenian blood only" Pleasssseeeeeee. It sounds ridiculous. Dianjan do what makes you happy. screw everyone else. As long as he is a good guy then go for it. (I should mention that I am the biggest looser in the world when it comes to marriage and relations so dont just listen to my advise. ) Yes, I was actually surprised also... I think that after all if we have no other problems we'll go for it, and hopefully kids will figure out who they want to be later on... And Azat Jan, I don't know your past, but good luck to you with an new relationship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanVal Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 My aunt married a Jew, and they have a kid who goes to elementary school. My aunt refused to convert or take up her husband's last name, but even though she herself doesn't want to be Jewish, she seems to have agreed to raising their child as a Jew. The reason is probably pragmatic: where she lives, there are a lot of Jews and it would be be easy for her son to maintain his identity as one. I don't agree that a faith that blends aspects of both religions is the solution. I was raised with two cultures (although I'm genetically full-blooded), and I know from personal experience that two religions or two cultures are, in many ways, no religion and no culture at all. What happens is that instead of feeling like you're part of two groups, you feel like you don't quite belong anywhere. It's best to pick just one identity, so that if you choose to have a child, he or she will belong to some community. And I think religion is important even though there are very few true Christians or true Jews (people who actually live by "the Book"), because it determines where you belong in society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Problem is confusing religion and culture. It is perfectly ok to marry peoples of different culture. Mixing cultures also works. However, religion is not as forgiving. I fully agree that trying to mix two religions is a bad idea ... heck just one religion by itself usually results in a complete mental mess .. let alone multiple contradicting ones. So if this question comes up again (kind of an old topic here), one has to ask him or herself: "Is my religion really that important?" If you answer yes, then your life will suck with someone of another religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanVal Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Problem is confusing religion and culture. It is perfectly ok to marry peoples of different culture. Mixing cultures also works. However, religion is not as forgiving. I fully agree that trying to mix two religions is a bad idea ... heck just one religion by itself usually results in a complete mental mess .. let alone multiple contradicting ones. So if this question comes up again (kind of an old topic here), one has to ask him or herself: "Is my religion really that important?" If you answer yes, then your life will suck with someone of another religion. It's important to very few people; most people don't even know what their religion says. They just pretend to adhere to the tenets of their religion, and that's when it becomes a big deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 (edited) Yes, I agree with you Sipan. Personally I don't quite agree in mix marriages and I expressed myself quite well on different topics earlier. But when you believe in a one specific religion, it is not advisable to intermarry with another. As it is, it is very hard when one is a true Christian in a marriage and the other is so so. Or one is a true Christian and the other is an aetheist or agnostic, let alone if one is Christian and the other is Jewish or Moslem. If both parties are gung ho about it, forget it. That marriage becomes more like hell for both parties and especially for the child. Of course this is my opinion. "Payts anshoushd patsaroutyounnere harkeli en". Edited October 9, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 (edited) It's important to very few people; most people don't even know what their religion says. They just pretend to adhere to the tenets of their religion, and that's when it becomes a big deal By reading this last few posts I recall Mao's famous words "Religion is Poisson" not that I would agree with him; but it seems to make lots of sense by what’s going in the world today. It’s not the gun but its people who kill people? well, yes? no? Same can be said about religion, for those who use it for advantage and power, and imagine sometimes amongst couple discussion eventually will turn into argument thus causing uncomfortable situations, like what our kids should be a Muslim a Jew or Christian. Etc…. but I don’t think religion is sole cause of those problems; I would put much emphasis on culture (exclude religion) Not of defer from the topic luck of understanding before anything, Humans are species governed by the laws of nature, and most of the time we live by these laws, its artificial creations of Human mind, which never stops creating that brought up the ideas of heaven and hell, Nuton and Einstein, capable of such a terrible act of evil yet to do as equally the Good Edited October 9, 2006 by Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Wow Edward, I'd say from your post that you're a philosoper! Yes, we are governed by the laws of nature and we try to live by them. But still some of us believe in the existence of heavan and hell and also the Creator of all of the wonderful things that we are surrounded by, and the powers of our Creator. That is the supernatural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 But still some of us believe in the existence of heavan and hell and also the Creator of all of the wonderful things that we are surrounded by, and the powers of our Creator. That is the supernatural. beliving is a wonderfull feeling, I'd say essential for Human spirit, of course this is my view, as long as you dont force, impose your views, belives and mostly dogmas on others. about me being a philasopher, well, what do you expect? I'm a married man you see (quote from Socrates) and a side joke i always say when comes to discussions like this "every one has got to belive in something, I belive I'll have a drink" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 beliving is a wonderfull feeling, I'd say essential for Human spirit, of course this is my view, as long as you dont force, impose your views, belives and mostly dogmas on others. about me being a philasopher, well, what do you expect? I'm a married man you see (quote from Socrates) and a side joke i always say when comes to discussions like this "every one has got to belive in something, I belive I'll have a drink" Also consider this; does the universe has laws or habits. And if it is really based on habits then habits can be broken, no? We know, we know that you're a married man. How can we forget. The question is what kind of a drink you'll have now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Diana my dear, If you love him go for it. I'd have to disagree. Unless your beliefs are nothing more than a name, I'd say forget him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanVal Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 By reading this last few posts I recall Mao's famous words "Religion is Poisson" not that I would agree with him; but it seems to make lots of sense by what’s going in the world today. It’s not the gun but its people who kill people? well, yes? no? Same can be said about religion, for those who use it for advantage and power, and imagine sometimes amongst couple discussion eventually will turn into argument thus causing uncomfortable situations, like what our kids should be a Muslim a Jew or Christian. Etc…. but I don’t think religion is sole cause of those problems; I would put much emphasis on culture (exclude religion) Not of defer from the topic luck of understanding before anything, Humans are species governed by the laws of nature, and most of the time we live by these laws, its artificial creations of Human mind, which never stops creating that brought up the ideas of heaven and hell, Nuton and Einstein, capable of such a terrible act of evil yet to do as equally the Good People are competitive and territorial. That's why we have religious/ethnic conflicts. It's the modern version of tribal warfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigranisbasileus Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 That should be the attitude of every normal Armenian! Sorry, my blood is not hollier or better quality! It just happens to be VERY RARE. On top of it when you marry a foreigner, most likely his/her nation was in the bed with the turks. So... let him become Armenian first. Baptise him and his family in an Armenian Apostolic Church. Let them learn Armenian, Hyer Mer, Mer Hayrenik and then we can talk... Why shold we convert and not you? it's paradoxal, gamavor... we weren't in bed with the turks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigranisbasileus Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 desagriments before marriege is not a good sign. dont confuse atraction, love with a long commitment, your hard times are still ahead of you, yet you already have doughts about this.........if i were you i would take some time off and really evaluate the situation and emagin your kids running around with yamakas I agree with Edward on this: these types of disagreements are bad signs; Myself, I'm getting divorced from my armenian wife. Why we failed to discuss or discuss Seriously the issues of culture. My friend just broke up also with his armenian gf with he was engaged; Moral of the story: the culture issue shouldn't come up 6 years into a relationship: I'm even of the opinion that it shold come up even before the relationship erally begins.... Its too late for you the choice is clear: either you break it off or you're gonna be miserable...choose... There is nothing wrong with yamakas if your Jewish and if they bother you... don't get married.... Your not adressing the problem either with a civil marriage... just postponing it.... The fact are as such: You love him, but you don't love him enough to marry him; people don't get married for sex, you go out for that; you get married to start a family because the person you choose shares the value you belive you want to pass on to your children; You can't love him and not his culture: its a package deal. And if you tell me you love him and respect his culture, i don't think your being sincere because of the yamaka question. Listen, It ain't too late for you to break up and start over with an armenian; Its better that being miserable or divorcing and having kids, etc. All bets are off until you wear the crowns... unless of course you prefer stepping on the wine class? If the image of the wine class donesn't please you, that's another hint. You are probably a great girl and he a great guy and you care and love each other... but not enough to marry.... Compromise shouldn't even be discussed if true, it should be automatic and if your on this forum... you allready have your answer.... Save yourself the trouble, because more trouble awaits you... Don't make your life more complicated that it is.... If you truely loved each other you BOTH wouldn't mind raising kids in each others cultures: but you DON'T... Don't make the mistake my wife make; The Only thing more stubborn that an armenian about his culture is a greek or a Jew. BE happy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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