Aratta-Kingdom Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Zionism & The Armenian Genocide By Yair Auron …We hope that this research will raise questions and contribute to the public debate on these issues. There are at least two precedents for the reactions in the Yishuv to The horrible atrocities committed against the Armenians during the First World War. The first is in reference to actions taken by Theodor Herzl, the founder of political Zionism and ‘prophet’ of the modern Jewish State. The well-known Jewish thinker, Hannah Arendt, published an article in July 1942, entitled “Herzl and Lazare” …It seems that the differences between Herzl and Lazare of which Arendt speaks- while revealing overt enthusiasm for the latter-where strongest and most interesting in relation to the Armenians. Herzl was involved in a number of ways in Armenian affairs because of his contracts with the Turkish Sultan. The immediate cause of dissension between Lazare and Herzl on the Armenian question was the appearance of a public expression of admiration for the Turkish Sultan issued by the Fifth Zionist Congress, held in Basle in the final days of December 1901. Herzl reported to the Congress on his meeting with the Sultan several months earlier: “In May of this year I had the honor to be received in a rather lengthy audience by His Majesty, the Sultan Abd al-Hamid II. The kindliness and cordiality of the reception were such as to justify the highest hopes. The attitude and language of His Majesty gave me the feeling that the Jewish people has a friend and protector in the ruling Khalif. The Sultan has authorized me to make this statement. Let the Jews of the world hear it, let them understand what prospects this fact open for them, and may they finally be ready for action which will mean self-help for them and a contribution to the new blossoming of the Turkish Empire.” At Herzl’s initiative, the Fifth Zionist Congress sent public greetings of admiration to the Sultan in order to create sympathy for Turkey. The telegram contains an ‘expression of dedication and gratitude which all of the Jews feel regarding the benevolence which His Highness the Sultan has always shown them.’ Earlier, as mentioned, Herzl had praised the Sultan in his opening address to the Congress. Bernard Lazare was incensed at these matters. Lazare was a member of Zionist Executive Committee but resigned after only a few months. In a letter to Herzl on March 24, 1898, he writes that the leadership of the Zionist movement ‘tries to direct the Jewish masses as if they were an ignorant child…that is a concept radically apposed to all of my political and social opinions, and I cannot, therefore, assume responsibility for it.” Lazare published “The Zionist Congress and the Sultan,’ an article critical of Herzl, in the Armenian journal, Pro Armenia, which appeared in Paris from 1901 to 1908. “The Zionist Congress which gathered in Basle paid honor to the Sultan Abd al-Hamid II. The delegates, or those who present themselves as such, of the most ancient of all oppressed people whose history has been written in blood, have sent their blessing to the worst of murderers. Not a single protest was heard at this conference [the Congress]. Not a man could be found who would say to the leaders, blinded like a herd, ‘You have not the right to shame your people.’ Not a man will take responsibility for this mistake, for this miserable error, which the members of the Congress in Basle have taken upon themselves and their emissaries.” Herzl writes in his diary on January 23, 1902, “In the Paris propaganda sheet Pro-Armenia Bernard Lazare has published a mean, malicious article against me, on the occasion of the exchange of Congress telegram with the Sultan. …What interest can he possibly have, apart from the nice gesture in defending the Armenians? “ Criticism of the Congress’ decision was heard in other quarters as well. The editorial board of Pro-Armenia, which published Lazare’s article…’[the paper] also published the protest of Armenian students…It is not clear Herzl’s words what saddened him ans what angered him. He adds one cynical sentence with practical implications: “However, this [the protest of the students] will probably do me good with the Sultan.” There is no doubt that Herzl knew of the Armenian problem, which occupied public opinion and European diplomacy in the last decade of the nineteenth century. Did Herzl wish(and if so, to what extent) to make us of the Armenian problem which burdened the Turkish Sultan, in order to promote his Zionist goals? It appears that Herzl did indeed try to make use of it, as a proponent of the Sultan rather than the Armenians, whether as an intermediary or helping the Sultan in his battle over public opinion. In May 1896, Herzl’s attention was focused on crating ties with the Sultan at the earliest possible opportunity. Herzl had two political advisors at that time…One of them Hechler,…The other, Philip Michael, a knight of the House of Nevlinsky… Nevlinsky, a diplomatic agent and journalist with widespread connection in the ruling circles of Constantinople, was allegedly sent by the Sultan on a secret mission to the Armenian committees in Brussels, Paris, and London, to persuade them to submit to the Sultan…Nevlinsky proposed that Herzl enlist the aid of the Jews in negotiation with the Armenians. “In return, he will tell the Sultan that the Jewish influence had rendered him this service.” Herzl’s reaction to the proposal: “The idea immediately struck me as excellent, but I told him that we shall not give our aid away free, i.e., give it only in return for positive counter-services to the Jewish cause.” The connection between efforts to mediate with the Armenians and the Zionist cause was clear. Herzl writes to Max Nordau about the planned mediation efforts regarding the Armenians, and asks for his quick response. Nordau, a noted doctor and Jewish writer in Paris, was on of Herzl’s earliest and closest colleagues and the spokesman of the Zionist movement at its congresses. Nordau was a close friend and a loyal colleague of Herzl and Herzl revealed to him the details of his plan: “If we help him in this he will be very grateful” Herzl assumed that the English could benefit from his efforts and he, in return, would benefit from the English. “I have quick, good access to Salisbury[Lord Robert Salisbury, British Prime Minster at the time]. He can effortlessly achieve a respectable diplomatic success if he supports the principle of compromise, or, one might say, if he pushes the Armenians to it. It is possible that the relations between England and Turkey may thus be improved. Salisbury will play le beau role in the eyes of Europe, while Sultan will nevertheless not be see as on who has given in to pressure. We must also try to influence the newspapers, especially the English and French. We must prepare public opinion for the surrender of the Armenians, and afterwards, for the magnanimity of the Sultan.” Herzl says that the Armenian committees in Paris, London, and Brussels must be convinced to go along. He asks Nordau to consult with his advisors in Paris regarding the best way to accomplish this “In particular, the committees must be advised that we, the Jews, are interested in this. In any event, it must not become known that we wish to use them in order to establish an independent State of the Jews, lest they also try to use this opportunity to do the same thing, thus adding to our difficulties. At most they should be allowed to know that we wish to have the prohibition against entry into Palestine cancelled. If(at worst) it is necessary to give them a reason for our intervention. “ In the course of the following months, Herzl reported to Nevlinsky several times o this activity on the Armenian matter. He spent twelve days in Constantinople at the end of June 1896, meeting with high ranking officials, including the Grand Vizier, but did not meet with the Sultan. The question of the Armenians came up in this discussion, and Herzl was asked to show his ‘good will,’ and demonstrate his authority, by agreeing to soften the critical attitude of the European press toward Abd al-Hamid II because of his treatment of the Armenians. He was also asked to persuade the Armenian leaders in exile to accept the Sultan’s authority, in return for unspecified concessions. In his journal entry for June 22, 1896, Herzl describes his conversation with Nevlinsky who had told him about the latter’s discussion with the Sultan the day before, regarding the Sultan’s refusal to receive Herzl. “…On the other hand, he is willing to receive me for an audience as a friend-after I do him a favor. And this is the service he demand of me: that I prevent upon the newspapers of Europe(in London, Paris, Barlin and Vienna), to present the Armenian question in a fashion friendly to Turkey, …” And Nevlinsky nurtured Herzl’s hopes. According to Herzl’s diary, written the day after the visit, Nevlinsky told him, “if you succeed in pacifying the Armenians, to arrange a loan of two million pounds for the lighthouses and if we obtain a letter from Bismarck [wich supports the transfer of Palestine to the Jews]-we will bring the matter to a conclusion within eight days.” From Herzl’s point of view it was felicitous that Turkey was in trouble. The worse Turkey’s situation become, the better it would be for the Zionist cause. Turkey would need assistance, and would therefore agree to Herzl’s requests, in return for the help it so desperately needed. Herzl, who has not made quick strides, consoles himself in his diary with the hope that it may be best to wait until the situation deteriorates. As a result of the disturbances and increasing severity of the attacks against the Armenians, which has continued with ups and downs for the better part of two years, since 1894, there was real concern for the future of the Sultan. “From London comes the news that the Powers are giving some thought to deposing Abd al-Hamid II. If this comes about, the Zionist idea will be dead for a long time to come. A new Sultan will find money and won’t need this combination.” Herzl feared that replacement of the Sultan would skewer his plans. The status of a new Sultan in world opinion would be different from that of the present “Red Sultan,” who was identified with the murder of Armenians. Herzl attempted to rouse public action to support the Sultan despite the worsening of the atrocities against the Armenians. He turned to Jacob de Haas, the editor of the weekly Jewish World from 1892-1900, one of Herzl’s first supporters in England, and later one of the organizers of the Zionist Organization in the United States: “This will be a disaster for us if the Sultan is deposed now. Could you therefore write something in the World?” And, indeed, it appears that de Hans made an effort so that the British press would not give wide coverage of the Armenian massacre. Other great powers, for their own reasons, and because of the rivalry between them preferred a weak ruler in Turkey who could be manipulated. Herzl was in favor of preserving the wholeness of the Ottoman Empire, in which framework he hoped the Zionist movement could achieve its goals. The Sultan’s weakness was an advantage for Herzl: “The financial situation of Turkey is so dire that it can be improved only by the wealth of Jews.” THE NEWPAPER HED HAZMAN AND THE ARMENIANS, 1908-1909 The position expressed in Yaakov Rabionvitch’s article are not exceptional among the articles and items which appear in the newspapers, Had Hazman (Echo of the Time), during the years 1908-1909. Subsequent to Rabionovitch’s article, we examine issues of Hed Hazman during the stormy years in Constantinople, at the time of the Young Turks’(600 of them + Ataturk were Jews from Saloniki) revolution, and afterwards during the failed conterrevoltion. During the riots in Constantinople, even before events were clear, Hed Hazman took a firm stand in support of the Young Turks. The Sultan, Abd al-Hamid, is depicted in the article as “a treacherous fox known for his brutality, whose hands are stained with the blood of the Armenians.” The paper is hopeful that the Sultan will be deposed: “The victory of the Young Turks is not only a victory for humanity, justice and integrity, it is a victory of Zionism as well.” The article concludes, “Only with the victory of freedom will the Zionist victory come…” Did the Jews of Constantinople Take Part in the Slaughter of the Armenians in 1895 and 1896? Both the Jews and the Armenians were religious-ethnic minorities in the Ottoman Empire. This fact sometimes caused a certain tension between them…Between the Jews and the Armenians tensions were also liable to develop over questions of economic competition. The Armenians and the Jews in the cities filled certain economic roles in commerce, artisanship, administration, and the free professions. Tension was also possible on religious grounds between Jews and Christians, including Armenians. Rabbi Chaim Nachum, the Chief Rabbi of Turkish Jewry for many years and a supporter of the Sultan, reported in 1908 to the president of the “Kol Yisrael Chaverim” Association about ‘an important visit’ in his words, which he made to the former Armenian Patriarch, who had lived in exile for twelve years and had recently returned to Constantinople “He had occupied this position at the time of the massacre of the Armenians, when marginal elements among the Jews in Haskoy[a Jewish Quarter in Constantinople where many Armenians also lived] played a shameful part in helping the Kurds to search out the hiding places of victims…” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Hey ArmoArmeN, You are not posting anything here that has not been posted before. We know the history backwards and forwards. Any well-read Armenian does. Now tell me what your posts will accomplish. Will it force Turkey to acknowledge what is well-documented? Will it shame Israel into supporting us? Will it make one iota of difference in the EU stance, already supporting us? No, it will just rile up some Armenians against Jews and get them to spew venom toward Jews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Hey ArmoArmeN, You are not posting anything here that has not been posted before. We know the history backwards and forwards. Any well-read Armenian does. Now tell me what your posts will accomplish. Will it force Turkey to acknowledge what is well-documented? Will it shame Israel into supporting us? Will it make one iota of difference in the EU stance, already supporting us? No, it will just rile up some Armenians against Jews and get them to spew venom toward Jews. Agreed. His copy-pasting is getting rather tired. We already have one fixated member here - we don't really need another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Vava, A very intelligent great-grandfather of mine was able to survive and thrive in a very hostile environment by using his wits instead of being a hothead. Only when the Turkish leadership included those who considered Armenians "vermin" to be exterminated was he not able to win over his enemies. Our hotheads presently will only create problems for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Hagarag, This is a problem indeed and I think I see the roost of it where its coming from, many times we have discussed about teaching AG in our schools, and my son few years ago came home sad and full of hate thourds the Turks, I have never discussed AG with him wile he was a kid but he attends Armenian school and all day long this kids hear exactly this, The question now and I always asked and every time I asked was confronted by my fellow Armenians, the question I want to ask is, is it healthy to teach youngsters at the early age about AG? Can an undeveloped mind like the Childs would understand the magnitude of the genocide? so many questions must be answered and discussed, first of all why did it happen, who were responsible and how to prevent another genocide, make the child understand all this, thus they growing up full of hate thourds the Turks regardless if they are fighting along our side to bring justice to AG. We don’t need another war, we don’t need hate, we need to rise healthy generation to insure the survival of this nation, I think hate will eventually kill a nation rather then help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 My experience is a rare one among Armenians. We, as children, were somewhat spared the agony of knowing about the Genocide. We were raised as odars, with only the ravings of a traumatised grandmother (Genocide related condition) to break the silence and we knew instinctively that she was "not of right mind." When I became aware of the realities after college, I went through a period of intense anger, directly primarily toward Jews, a group with whom I had close ties throughout my early life. Young minds are very impressionable. Older minds reflect more. Perhaps Genocide education can be postponed until students are in the last years of high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Edward: My own father was a victim of the Genocide himself as he was a mere child when it happened and his whole family were annihilated, then the American Orphanage took care of him. Yet in all my youthful life until I was a young adult, he didn't talk about the Genocide. He did something else which was far better. He used to take us to every Armenian concert, lecture, and cultural events. He loved them all and he made us feel proud of our Armenian heritage and our great culture. My father was actually and in reality a very brilliant man, and even in here he showed his intelligence. Do the same with your children. Let them know our wonderful culture, our great literature and our poetry. Let them be proud of who they are and of being and feeling Armenian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 (edited) When I became aware of the realities after college, I went through a period of intense anger, directly primarily toward Jews, a group with whom I had close ties throughout my early life. Young minds are very impressionable. Older minds reflect more. Perhaps Genocide education can be postponed until students are in the last years of high school. Phantom: I agree with your thinking and feel the same. I also feel that hating the Jews especially when we are surrounded by them and they are all around us, and especially in the U.S. would be very very unwise. I really think that we should approach to each individual as to who they are. Edited October 17, 2005 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted October 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Hey Phantom, You sound a kind who like to slander people and exercise censhorship. In fact, you sound the kind who blame Hrant Dink for supposedly insulting the turkish identity-turkishness...the kind who blame Orhan Pamuk for spreading hate...and force scholars to cancel a conference. Yair Auron himself is a jew and a respected scholar. With or without your approval, the fact must and will be recorded...you like it or not, the truth must and will be told. In case you forgot, in this section of the site we talk about genocide-genocides...which in fact, is a crime against humanity. We we don't learn from the past-another Hitler will say it again "Who remebers the Armenians, after all." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 (edited) Hey Phantom, You sound a kind who like to slander people and exercise censhorship. In fact, you sound the kind who blame Hrant Dink for supposedly insulting the turkish identity-turkishness...the kind who blame Orhan Pamuk for spreading hate...and force scholars to cancel a conference. Yair Auron himself is a jew and a respected scholar. With or without your approval, the fact must and will be recorded...you like it or not, the truth must and will be told. In case you forgot, in this section of the site we talk about genocide-genocides...which in fact, is a crime against humanity. We we don't learn from the past-another Hitler will say it again "Who remebers the Armenians, after all." This has all been discussed here many times before. Let us focus on improving Armenia's economic climate. The whole world knows that a Genocide occured. The Turks aren't fooling anyone anymore. What will happen now is the negotiation process. The issue is no longer whether a Genocide occured. The facts speak for themselves. Armenians, Assyrians, Chaldeans and Anatolian/Pontic Greeks were removed from their ancestral lands and /or killed. Turkey has to make amends for that. If Moslem citizens of Turkey have claims against Balkan nations they should pursue those claims. Turkey can no longer pass the buck on the actions of the Itthihadists and earlier actions. Edited October 17, 2005 by phantom22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Hey Phantom, You sound a kind who like to slander people and exercise censhorship. In fact, you sound the kind who blame Hrant Dink for supposedly insulting the turkish identity-turkishness...the kind who blame Orhan Pamuk for spreading hate...and force scholars to cancel a conference. Yair Auron himself is a jew and a respected scholar. With or without your approval, the fact must and will be recorded...you like it or not, the truth must and will be told. In case you forgot, in this section of the site we talk about genocide-genocides...which in fact, is a crime against humanity. We we don't learn from the past-another Hitler will say it again "Who remebers the Armenians, after all." OK fine, but have in mind something, it is disrespectful to the members of this board, to spam it. If you want to be respected, maybe you should start respecting us. I don't ask you to stop copypasting, but at least to go through the previous threads and see if what you post has already not been posted, or if the subject of your posts have not been addressed, so that you could past them into an existing thread. Everyone of your threads I've read have already been addressed. And this one you just posted, I have already posted a thread, about one of the two books of the author, and even presenting the introduction(or preface, I don't remember) and conclusion. That, I think, would be the least you could do. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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