Question About Artsakh History

[Zartonk]

Dear Artsakhtsis, can you please tell me about the earliest History of this Armenian askhar and the credibility of the historical Aran and Paytakaran?

 

Related Websites would be very much apreciated.

[archakhper]

Artsakhtsi chem, but I can recommend a book "The Caucasian Knot: The History and Geo-Politics of Nagorno-Karabagh", which covers some of the history of Artsakh. It has appeared in French and English, I haven't seen the French version but the English version has an extra Introduction, so I would recommend that version. It does a good job with the history that t covers although it does not go into too much depth. The Authors are Levon Chorbajian, Patrick Donabedian & Claude Mutafian and its from the much respected, hard to find "Politics in Contemporary Asia" Series by Zed Books.

 

As far as Paytakaran, I am also looking for some good English language work on this, so if you find any please let me know.

[Zartonk]

Welcome, thank you, and I sure will.

[archakhper]

I forgot to mention the ISBN -

 

1 85649 287 7 Hb

1 85649 288 5 Pb

 

I don't know why it has two ISBNs perhaps one of them is for the French version.

[Dave]

Paperback version

Hardcover version

 

Pay close attention to the reviews azeri readers gave.

 

I aspecially like this one

 

Unfortunately, the author could not present the objective view of the conflict in Garabakh and follows an extremely biased attitude.

It is a known fact that Armenia always was an aggressive state for last 150 years and, in fact, was created as a result of migration of Armenians into Transcaucasia. That trend was accompanied by extermination and ethnic cleansing of the native inhabitants of the region - Azeris, Kurds, Turks, Georgians, Jews and others. The success of Armenians was solely due to the support of Russia which tried to increase its grip on that land by establishing and artificially created, loyal base. But author, unfortunately, tried to picture a completely opposite chronology of events, misrepresenting Armenians as "ancient people of Caucasus".

 

The struggle for Garabakh, the ancient heartland of Caucasian Albania (Albanians of Caucasus were the ancestors of modern Azerbaijanis) presents another era of Armenian aggression. The massacres committed by Armenian army against Azerbaijani population of Garabakh and Armenian Republic is a much bigger ethnic cleansing campaign than Kosovo or East Timor. And trying to justify that crime, by distorting history and misleading the reader, is the main fault of this book. At least, the fact of Armenian migration 150 years ago into Garabakh and the following blood-bath against Azerbaijanis and their repeat in 1988-94 can not be ignored.

 

What the azeri reader wrote here is completely the opposite of reality.

Edited July 23, 2005 by Dave

[skhara]

Dave,

 

Some of those reviews simply baffle the mind. One of them stated that Turks, Jews, Kurds, are native inhabitants of the Caucasus and Armenians are newcomers.

 

What I'm wondering is if they actually believe this non-sense, or constantly repeat it to themselves to make themselves believe it.

 

For example, ancient Azerbaijani lands of Artsax and Zangezur were depicted as "historically Armenian", and the Armenians who first migrated into Caucasus about 250 years ago were claimed to be "the oldest nation" in this part of the world. Such unprofessional remarks are very dangerous considering the already unstable relations and ethnic tensions in Caucasus.

 

Perhaps someone should show him some ancient maps where he could point out a country, a kindom, called Azerbaijan. When has such an entitity existed prior to the 20th century? Are there Azeris who can actually comprehend this?

 

Here is a review I like and can agree with:

 

 

Although I admit this book tends to side with the Armenians on particular occasions, I strongly believe that it gives an accurate account of what happened and in the process, provides some insightful and clear-cut information that you may not be able to find in many other books about this subject. Anyone doing research on this issue should read this book, at least parts depending on what you are researching. As for those of you who think that this book is not worth your time because it is bias toward the Armenians, try reading Audrey Altstadt's "Azerbaijani Turks" - now there's a piece of propaganda. I admit that Chorbaijian's book could have been a little bit more objective, but let's face it - the Turks annihilated over 1 million Armenians not too long ago. I think he's entitled to some hard feelings. As for Russian and supposedly Armenian mistreatment of Azerbaijanis during the colonial and Soviet period - yes, Russians and Armenians sat in a lot of high places. BUT, if it wasn't for the Armenians and Russians who helped develop the country, Azerbaijan would look a lot like Afghanistan right now. Moreover, the fact there was NO systematic persecution of Turks or Azerbaijanis by Armenians in Azerbaijan OR Armenia, which had a considerable Azerbaijani minority at the time, gives a little insight into who's the more civilized, no? I myself am an Armenian refugee from Azerbaijan, and if you think Armenians are not allowed to have any hard feelings about ethnic cleansing, you should think twice about reading this book.

 

That part in bold is truth that can really sting for the Azeris.

 

By the way, what do they mean high places? In Soviet times the Boss was usually of the nationality of the local Republic.

 

My father broke down the labor field for me like this:

 

Armenians and Russians -- professional fields, engineers, etc...

Jews -- Accountants

Azeris -- the Boss, or labourers.

 

Note: Bossess ("Nachalniki", didn't really do anything)

Edited July 24, 2005 by skhara

[archakhper]

Wow, I'm glad I mentioned this book. Looks like everyone's interested. By the way, I also took a look at the NKR website today, I saw a link to it somewhere in one of these posts, but don't remember what string. There is some good historical info it seems, but I haven't had a chnce to read through it yet.

 

http://www.nkr.am/eng/

 

check it out...

 

I also found a map of Greater Armenia which outlines the separate provinces. But unfortunately it doesn't have much other info.

 

Just go to www.google.com and do an image search for "paytakaran"

[Dave]

Discover Azerbaijan! : http://www.geocities.com/master8885/

[Proud EXPAT]

http://www.nkr.am/eng/

 

It's too bad these types of sites owned by the government can't look a little more professional. And damn it, mention the name Artsakh, I'm sick of it being called Karabagh.

[Zartonk]

BUT, if it wasn't for the Armenians and Russians who helped develop the country, Azerbaijan would look a lot like Afghanistan right now

 

Very nicely put.

 

 

Pay close attention to the reviews azeri readers gave.

 

 

You guys really want to laugh? Check this one out.

 

This pile is from one of their

goverment websites:

 

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=46...rbaijan+history

 

(Turn's out Zarthushtra was an oil tycoon in the wolrds first country, and the Azerbaijani Apostolic church once lead the Christian world.........)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see that didnt satisfy, so now we have a few Caucasian Turks with Arabic names and Russian endings trying correct the many Armenian-perpetrated flaws

of history and bring justice to this once Jew and "Moslem"settled East Kurdistan/West "Azerbaijan".

 

And as if Turkey wasn't already bad enough, now we have the illigetimate cousin on the other side toying with the Armenians and their culture and coming up with fresh bull. Boy are we sorrounded..

 

Anywho, I should recieve the book shortley and that is a good map archakhper, Thnx.

Edited July 25, 2005 by Zartonk