Gotta Love It

[skhara]

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42805

 

This guy's a Jew, listing Armenia as his highest violator.

[kakachik77]

who is this guy, some Joe from Canada or US? If I pay attention to every bad comment about Armenia then pretty soon my head will explode. And entire Caucasus includes the strongest Armenian ally - Russia, so how is the entire Caucasus against????? The guy is full of bs. Edited June 2, 2005 by kakachik77

[phantom22]

Every amateur pundit should not be taken seriously. It is only one person stating their opinion.

[skhara]

who is this guy, some Joe from Canada or US?

 

Claims to be a pro-Israeli American Jew.

 

If I pay attention to every bad comment about Armenia then pretty soon my head will explode.

It is only one person stating their opinion.

 

This particular opinion peaked a curiosity. How does he even know about the conflict? And notice how he listed Armenia is one of his 8 countries worst than Israel in terms of aggression and human rights.

 

And entire Caucasus includes  the strongest Armenian ally - Russia, so how is the entire Caucasus against????? The guy is full of bs.

 

Most Americans don't even know that there is such a place as Armenia. His BS comment is to feed BS to the ignorant. Besides, who actually 'hates' Armenia in the Caucasus besides the Turks?

Edited June 2, 2005 by skhara

[gamavor]

The only aggressors are the Americans, Jews and Turks. I don't remember Armenians occuping foreign lands - at least not in the last 2000 years.

[skhara]

Don't forget all the Anglo-Saxons gamavor.

[kumkap]

as for this shmuck on the website, i have recently discovered that jewish animosity towards armenians has a history longer than just that of israel and turkey as countries. i have never seen it mentioned here before so i'm going to do it now. how many people here know that the pan-turkist member of the ittihad, tekin alp, who is described by the dutch ottoman historian erik zurcher in his book turkey: a modern history, (the standard work used in intro to turkish history courses at universities) as one of the most ardent turkish nationalists among the cup and was author of the "best known formulation of pan-turkist aims" of the period, was in fact jewish, born moiz cohen in 1883? i found this a little peculiar at first.

 

think he was the only jew involved in the ideological justification of the armenian genocide? zurcher gives you another one (p.129):

 

there were a few people who drew attention to the semi-colonial position of the ottoman empire and to the naivete of young turk economic policies, advocating a much more nationalist economic policy.  chief among them was alexander helphand, also known by his pen-name parvus.  helphand was a russian jew who had emigrated to germany as a young man and joined the socialist movement there. 

 

after the 1905 revoluation in russia, he had returned and served on the st. petersburg soviet together with trotsky.  after 1912 he combined te function of journalist, german agent, arms dealer and marxist intellectual, settling in istanbul.  as an orthodox marxist, he did not advocate a socialist revolution for the empire (seeing it as irrelevant for a country without an industrial proletariat), but he advocated nationalist economic policies and the building of an indigenous merchant and industrial bourgeoisie in a number of influential articles in the journal turk yurdu (turkish homeland).

 

parvus' ideas gained in influence from 1913 onwards.  in the context of the national mobilization after the bab-i ali coup, the state, now completely dominated by the cup, began to intervene more actively in the economy.  in the following years this new direction evolved into the policies of milli iktisat (national economy), in which nineteenth century german industrialization served as an example.  any nationalist economic programme could, of course, be fully implemented only if the government was master in its own house first and abolished the capitulations which kep it in a subordinate position to europe.  this chance came with the outbreak of the great was in 1914.

 

nationalization of the economy means murder the most economically successful elements of the society (and also rivals to jews), armenians and greeks, and expropriate their wealth. get into positions of power in the media and government in order to popularize your murderous ideas, then sit back and let the titular group do the grunt work. it works the same in 2003 (u.s. w/ iraq) as it did in 1915.

 

to conclude i offer you one last tidbit, taken from the blight of asia (about the destruction of smyrna 1922), by george horton, consul and consul-general of the united states in the near east:

 

As the Armenians had all disappeared from the streets, it was supposed that the men who had escaped had taken refuge in their own quarter, a well-built, Europeanized section of the town, within well-defined limits. Before proceeding to what happened next, it should be explained that the soldiers were helped in picking out Armenians in the streets by native spies, who accompanied them and pointed out victims. I could not recognize the nationality of those foul and slimy reptiles, the spies. I was told by some that they were Jews, but I have no proof to substantiate the statement. Of course many of the informers were Turks, and it is possible that they were all of that race, as they would naturally aid their own troops.

 

    When Armenian hunting became too poor in the streets of Smyrna, their precinct was closed to all except Turks by soldiers stationed at the street entrances, after which the sack and massacre were conducted methodically. I did not myself attempt to enter the Armenian section, but I was repeatedly informed by those with whom I was in contact that ingress was not permitted. Americans who saw into the quarter from their windows, stated that there was not a house that escaped, so far as could be seen. All were broken into, looted, the furniture smashed and thrown into the streets. What happened to the inhabitants can easily be left to the imagination it is easy to form a mental picture of those families, cowering in their homes, with their wives, their daughters and their babes, waiting for the crash of a rifle butt on their doors.

 

people should understand that while they are a minority to be sure, there has been and always will be a subgroup of jews that view murder and violence as a legitimate means of acquiring what it is they want from other people, be it land, wealth, property. here is an excerpt from an article that appeared in the guardian yesterday

 

Among those filmed by Mr Yavin is an Israeli soldier in Hebron who wonders how his compatriots can remain silent in the face of the "horrors" the army commits, and the settlers who ask him why he's not shooting Palestinian children.

 

Some settlers tell Yavin that the Palestinians must be given a deadline to leave the occupied territories or be forced out. "Otherwise we should just bomb and kill them," says one woman.

 

here is another, from an interview with a professor of geography/demography at haifa university named arnon soffer, advisor to sharon:

 

RB: Will Israel be prepared to fight this war?

 

AS: First of all, the fence is not built like the Berlin Wall. It's a fence that we will be guarding on either side. Instead of entering Gaza, the way we did last week, we will tell the Palestinians that if a single missile is fired over the fence, we will fire 10 in response. And women and children will be killed, and houses will be destroyed. After the fifth such incident, Palestinian mothers won't allow their husbands to shoot Kassams, because they will know what's waiting for them.

 

Second of all, when 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it's going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today, with the aid of an insane fundamentalist Islam. The pressure at the border will be awful. It's going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day.

 

RB: While CNN has its cameras at the wall?

 

AS: If we don't kill, we will cease to exist. The only thing that concerns me is how to ensure that the boys and men who are going to have to do the killing will be able to return home to their families and be normal human beings.

 

i thought jews were supposed to be smart. how can you possibly compare the jewish/palestinian conflict with the azeri/armenian one. jews move themselves onto land they have never lived on before (it's always the white-looking jews, who i have a hard time believing are the true descendents of the original jews expelled by the romans 2000 years ago - they're supposed to be semitic people remember), wipe out the native population, claim it for themselves, then together with the american jews cry like babies whenever their "security" is threatened. which lands exactly did armenians move themselves onto?

 

imagine just for a moment the concept of americans, jewish or not, helping the jews to exterminate palestinians from the land they are living on. this is the equivalent of the french creating an army of navajo, iroquois, sioux, seminole, etc. to terrorize the white population of texas, florida, arizona, south dakota, etc. with the goal of wiping them off the map of north america for good. native americans lived here 2000 years ago when there was not a white man to be seen, so why not.

[gamavor]

Don't forget all the Anglo-Saxons gamavor.

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Sorry, by bad! If one wants to taste the worst ever food on Earth and 'enjoy' the ugliest women on this planet, than a visit to England is a must!

[gamavor]

after the 1905 revoluation in russia, he had returned and served on the st. petersburg soviet together with trotsky.  after 1912 he combined te function of journalist, german agent, arms dealer and marxist intellectual, settling in istanbul.  as an orthodox marxist, he did not advocate a socialist revolution for the empire (seeing it as irrelevant for a country without an industrial proletariat), but he advocated nationalist economic policies and the building of an indigenous merchant and industrial bourgeoisie in a number of influential articles in the journal turk yurdu (turkish homeland).

 

Marx and all Communist gurus were all pro-Turkish. Do a Google search and you will find at least dozen of publications and letters between Marx and Engels with regard to the 'proletarian' potential of the Turkish peasants.

 

Since you mentioned 1905, what come to mind are the first Anti-Jewish pogroms in Russia. Guess who were the only ones that helped the Jews?

 

Yes, the old silly Armenians, together with some Ukrainian and Polish students.

 

In return, Jews in the Ottoman Empire were going door by door together with Turkish gendarmes pointing out the Armenians.

[skhara]

i thought jews were supposed to be smart.  how can you possibly compare the jewish/palestinian conflict with the azeri/armenian one. 

 

kumkap,

 

He is not comparing the conflict. He is saying that Armenia along the Russia and several others are worse than Israel and that they deserve to be critisized before Israel.

 

Defemation appears to be the intent.

Edited June 3, 2005 by skhara

[Tommmmmmy]

Vanessa Redgrave should put this guy in his place.