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phantom22 Newbie

phantom22

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hey Zurderer,

 

Not all of us here are hell-bent on antagonizing you. Some of us here wait for Turkey to "turn the next page" make amends and grow the regional economy in conjunction with Armenia. I may be a dreamer, but my family reached the pinnacles of worldly sucess under the Ottoman Sultans, without sacrificing their benevolence toward the Armenian masses. So I have a different perspective. As Rodney King stated "Can't we just all just get along?" Perhaps my drift toward Buddhism jades my perceptions, but Elif Safak, Orhan Pamuk and other Turks are trying to bridge the gap.

 

 

You should not swear at your sacred church of hyeforum. ;)
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Zartonk Newbie

Zartonk

Posted
Posted
Some of us here wait for Turkey to "turn the next page" make amends and grow the regional economy in conjunction with Armenia.

 

Phantom, Turkey hasn't even opened the "book" yet. Despite signs of hope among the upcoming generation, the compatriots of Pamuk and Akcam remian the same society that shuns all self-assessment and most dialouge. Their government, on the other hand, is the same enitity that violates basic human liberties in the name of a law held to "protect" their founding figure, and the same that misrepresents heritage of Ottoman ethnic minorities as Seljuk etc. and the one that calls history a daydream.

 

We're ALL dreamers sir, but that intuitive righteous dream for uniting humanity should not cloud our bitter reality.

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phantom22 Newbie

phantom22

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yes, Germany.

 

In the present case, it is in Turkey's interest to restore some semblance of what Turkey was under the Ottomans. A nation that wants to join Europe can be Moslem, but it must be cosmopolitan. That means having neighborhoods such as Pera (now Beyoglu) which are international centers of commerce and culture.

 

Just a note to you that the Native Americans are now making bug bucks running private casinos on their reservations. The US has apologized to the Japanese who were interred in WWII and attemoted to make amends. We can only forget the past if the present Turkish approach changes. Will a non-Moslem ever be considered an equal citizen in Turkey? Will the churches be allowed to fix their roofs? Will historic Armenian churches be restored in toto by competent Brits and Frenchmen/women. Or are incompetent Turkish restorers going to obliterate Armenian symbols during the restorations?

 

 

It happened only once, and we both know what was the situation of germany.
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zurderer Newbie

zurderer

Posted
Posted
In the present case, it is in Turkey's interest to restore some semblance of what Turkey was under the Ottomans.

 

Ottoman times are pasted, also ottomans were hated by EU, not liked. So a semblance of ottoman will not help Turkey.

 

A nation that wants to join Europe can be Moslem, but it must be cosmopolitan.

 

Like greeks, you are giving EU wish much credit. EU wish wont change turkish mentality. It can change some law but absolutely not mentality. That cosmoplitan thing, did you ever come istanbul?

 

That means having neighborhoods such as Pera (now Beyoglu) which are international centers of commerce and culture.

 

If they comes with money, noone will refuse it. Well maybe some moron but they do this for muslims(arabs) too.

 

Just a note to you that the Native Americans are now making bug bucks running private casinos on their reservations. The US has apologized to the Japanese who were interred in WWII and attemoted to make amends.

 

Apologise and accepting genocide law is totally two different thing. You cannot compare them.

 

We can only forget the past if the present Turkish approach changes.

 

Infact If turkey support ROA instead of azeris, you will forget half of past.

 

 

Will a non-Moslem ever be considered an equal citizen in Turkey?

 

I dont think this is realy a big issue. Of course If this citizen is turkish. Turkey is nationalist state. I remember a church is opened one weak ago.(Owners of church is orthox turks.If I remember correct.)

 

Will historic Armenian churches be restored in toto by competent Brits and Frenchmen/women. Or are incompetent Turkish restorers going to obliterate Armenian symbols during the restorations?

 

well sorry for this, these morons are also destroying turkish buildings too.

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phantom22 Newbie

phantom22

Posted
Posted
Ottoman times are pasted, also ottomans were hated by EU, not liked. So a semblance of ottoman will not help Turkey.

 

Today, if Turks can prove that Christians are not punished in Turkey it will ease their entry into the EU.

 

Like greeks, you are giving EU wish much credit. EU wish wont change turkish mentality. It can change some law but absolutely not mentality. That cosmoplitan thing, did you ever come istanbul?

If they comes with money, noone will refuse it. Well maybe some moron but they do this for muslims(arabs) too.

 

If military and justices eased up, things would change. Many elderly Turks admit to what happened, even show National Geographic authors where Armenian bones were buried.

 

I stood at the edge of Rhodes and looked toward Turkey. Why would I want to enter the land where both of my grandfathers were killed? Why would I want to go back to Pera or to our community in the hinterland and see the grandious homes that were confiscated from us? Why would I want to see the routes where my mothers two infant siblings perished, starved to death? Why would I want to see the places that were in my grand-mother's and my mother's nightmares? No, I flew from Greece over Turkey to Yerevan. When my cousin went to Turkey she was stupid enough to tell the villagers who she was, and they spit on her.

 

Apologise and accepting genocide law is totally two different thing. You cannot compare them.

 

Turkey can defuse Genocide recognition if it comes to terms with confiscation of Christian properties past and present.

 

Infact If turkey support ROA instead of azeris, you will forget half of past.

 

Armenia wants to be part of the region. Turkey is stopping this.

 

 

I dont think this is realy a big issue. Of course If this citizen is turkish. Turkey is nationalist state. I remember a church is opened one week ago.(Owners of church is orthox turks.If I remember correct.)

well sorry for this, these morons are also destroying turkish buildings too.

 

 

Why does Turkey hire its own incompetents to restore thgese monuments. I am an expert on Turkish architecture. Yes, your bunglers are doing damage to Turkish monuments also.

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zurderer Newbie

zurderer

Posted
Posted (edited)
Today, if Turks can prove that Christians are not punished in Turkey it will ease their entry into the EU.

 

You have a romantic vision about EU. Turkey is too poor and too big. these are reasons for not accepting Turkey.

 

I stood at the edge of Rhodes and looked toward Turkey. Why would I want to enter the land where both of my grandfathers were killed? Why would I want to go back to Pera or to our community in the hinterland and see the grandious homes that were confiscated from us? Why would I want to see the routes where my mothers two infant siblings perished, starved to death? Why would I want to see the places that were in my grand-mother's and my mother's nightmares?

 

curiosity? What happened is happened to your ancestors, not you. would you loose anything?

 

Turkey can defuse Genocide recognition if it comes to terms with confiscation of Christian properties past and present.

 

Well,If Turkey accept genocide, most probably armenians will began a new campaign for properties and land, also Turkey cannot refuse anything If She accept genocide.(I should add accepting genocide will cripple turkish politic against armenia)

 

Armenia wants to be part of the region. Turkey is stopping this.

 

Armenia is part of the region, She is ally of iran and russia, and Turkey has no reason to help armenia.

 

do armenia peaciful against Turkey? no.

 

can you show me one reason to support ROA instead of azeris? no.

 

Why does Turkey hire its own incompetents to restore thgese monuments. I am an expert on Turkish architecture. Yes, your bunglers are doing damage to Turkish monuments also.

 

I dont know, most probably these gays are giving bribe or they are relatives of decision makers. After all corruption is one of biggest problem of Turkey.

Edited by zurderer
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gamavor Newbie

gamavor

Posted
Posted (edited)
curiosity? What happened is happened to your ancestors, not you. would you loose anything?

 

So If I kill you and rob you from all your possesions your children and grandchildren have no rights over your assets? Very interesting! Very original pattern of thinking! :)

 

Boy, if you only knew what great supporter you have in my simple persona for your accession to the Union... I really wish you to become part of the European family of nations and I believe your nation and your country rightly belongs to Europe. :)

Edited by gamavor
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zurderer Newbie

zurderer

Posted
Posted
Boy, if you only knew what great supporter you have in my simple persona for your accession to the Union... I really wish you to become part of the European family of nations and I believe your nation and your country rightly belongs to Europe.

 

Sad, I have not much interest with EU. I have good job, and I dont need money.(So EU)

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gamavor Newbie

gamavor

Posted
Posted

Well I'm very happy for you. I wish more turks are happy with their lifes so that we should not see their ugly faces in Europe and America.

 

As to your previous polution, - it is not about moral. In the civilized world we have a concept called the LAW. Most laws are moral, but some are not! I hope and wish that you will get rid of your Ottoman past not in terms of getting rid of your scarfs, mustaches and bending over but modernization of your natural ways.

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zurderer Newbie

zurderer

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Posted
Well I'm very happy for you. I wish more turks are happy with their lifes so that we should not see their ugly faces in Europe and America.

 

Well want to use turkish goods? you can help our economy and you will see less turk at EU or USA.

 

In the civilized world we have a concept called the LAW. Most laws are moral, but some are not!

 

Well I have different idea about law, laws are not about moral but about power fight.

 

Unfortunately you have no power for changing law at Turkey.

 

By the way, Civilized world? do you mean iraq or afghanistan?

 

mustaches

 

what is your problem with mustaches? :angry: It is one of most precious part of human body.

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phantom22 Newbie

phantom22

Posted
Posted
Well want to use turkish goods? you can help our economy and you will see less turk at EU or USA.

 

 

 

Well I have different idea about law, laws are not about moral but about power fight.

 

Unfortunately you have no power for changing law at Turkey.By the way, Civilized world? do you mean iraq or afghanistan?

 

what is your problem with mustaches? :angry: It is one of most precious part of human body.

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  • 3 years later...
Arpa Newbie

Arpa

Posted
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The Syrians are not Arabs in the true sense, neither are they “musims” by definition. Some day they may find their true identity which is neither Arab or muslim. They were the one of the very few first Christians, even before you-know-who.

----

Hehe!! See her "hijab/shejab" and her "I-phone/you-phone".Hypocrite Dogs and B*tch' s!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100719/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_syria_islamic_veils

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/burqa/photo//100712/ids_photos_india_wl/ra752625189.jpg//s:/ap/20100719/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_syria_islamic_veils;_ylt=AsA_UR9gPyG6SM4ELzYwOkYUewgF;_ylu=X3oDMTE5ODZnODE5BHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl9yX3RvcF9waG90bwRzbGsDZnJlbmNoZW50cmVw

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/burqa/photo//100712/ids_photos_india_wl/ra752625189.jpg//s:/ap/20100719/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_syria_islamic_veils;_ylt=AsA_UR9gPyG6SM4ELzYwOkYUewgF;_ylu=X3oDMTE5ODZnODE5BHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl9yX3RvcF9waG90bwRzbGsDZnJlbmNoZW50cmVw

Syria bans face veils at universities

By ALBERT AJI, Associated Press Writer Albert Aji, Associated Press Writer 35 mins ago

DAMASCUS, Syria – Syria has banned the face-covering Islamic veil from the country's universities to prevent what it sees as a threat to its secular identity, as similar moves in Europe spark cries of discrimination against Muslims.

The Education Ministry issued the ban Sunday, according to a government official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to speak publicly.

The ban, which affects public and private universities, is only against the niqab — a full Islamic veil that reveals only a woman's eyes — not headscarves, which are far more commonly worn by Syrian women.

The billowing black robe known as a niqab is not widespread in Syria, although it has become more common recently — a move that has not gone unnoticed in a country governed by a secular, authoritarian regime.

"We have given directives to all universities to ban niqab-wearing women from registering," the government official told The Associated Press on Monday.

The niqab "contradicts university ethics," he added, saying the government was seeking to protect its secular identity.

He also confirmed that hundreds of primary school teachers who were wearing the niqab at government-run schools were transferred last month to administrative jobs.

Syria is the latest country to weigh in on the veil, perhaps the most visible hallmark of conservative Islam. The wearing of veils has spread in other secular-leaning Arab countries such as Jordan and Lebanon, as well, with Jordan's government trying to discourage it by playing up reports of robbers who wear veils as masks.

Turkey also bans Muslim headscarves in universities, with many saying attempts to allow them in schools amount to an attack on modern Turkey's secular laws.

European countries including France, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands are considering bans on the grounds that the veils are degrading to women.

France's lower house of parliament overwhelmingly approved a ban on wearing burqa-style Islamic veils on July 13 in an effort to define and protect French values, a move that angered many in the country's large Muslim community.

Opponents say such bans violate freedom of religion and will stigmatize all Muslims.

Duaa, a 19-year-old university student in Damascus, said she hopes to continue wearing her niqab to classes when the next term begins in the fall despite the ban.

Otherwise, she said, she will not be able to study.

"The niqab is a religious obligation," said Duaa, who asked that her surname not be used because she was not comfortable speaking publicly on the issue. "I cannot go without it."

Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved

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  • 1 month later...
Arpa Newbie

Arpa

Posted
Posted (edited)

Why are some people reciting the name of GOD in vain, and using HIM to justify their UNGODLY acts?

Did not mehmet turkoghlu recite “allah ou ekber” before he slit the throats of our ancestors? Which allah, which god were they calling? I doubt if they were invoking “rahman al rahim/merciful of all”.

A picture of allah;

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-3/Ayatollah-Khomeini.jpg

 

Exod 20.

[7] Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

7Քո տէր Աստծու անունն զուր տեղը չպիտի արտասանես, որովհետև Տէրը արդար չի համարում նրան, ով իր անունը զուր տեղն է արտասանում։

Verse: 7 Մի́ առնուցուս զանուն տ(եառ)ն ա(ստուծո)յ քոյ ՛ի վերայ սնոտեաց. զի ո́չ սիրեսցէ տ(է)ր զայն, որ առնուցու զանուն նորա ՛ի վերայ սնոտեաց։

---

We are only 3 days away from the 9th year from 9/11/2001, and there is so much bullshit flying around about the planned so called islamic center only a few doors from that tragically scared WTC site, where over 4000 people of all faiths and all colors were incinerated.

Now, tell me about that SOB god of islam, that that attack was not the act of islam, and that how benevolent islam is. BULLCRAP!!!

Yes, do tell us that that act of terrorism was not an islamic act, and then tell us how many of the below (partial) list of perpetrators were of other faiths but islam.

And now so many idiotic imams are coming out of the woodwork to tell us that islam is a religion of love, peace and tolerance. Yea !!! Right “pis” and “toler-my-arse”.

How many new/old Chrsitian Centers/churches have been built in Saudia, Iran and furkey lately?

Show me one new Christian building in those damn countries, that is beside that joke of “akdamar museum” then I’ll participate in the building of an Islamic center.

My fathers used to say “We should get out of the shadow of the minaret” . And now see how the minaret has caught up with us!!!

Allah ou ekber? Up their big noses! Shoonshanordiner!!! If they intended to come to Christian America then why did they murder us the Christian Armenians and stole our homes and churches ?

Why are they coming to America? Who is inviting them?

Yes, yes. Let all the furks come to America, we will take back our land and home.

--

Here is a list of those “benevolently peaceful “ non-muslims. Which of them professes other than “islam”. Christian. judaic, Budhist or Brahman?

 

Here is a symbol of islam the sword. Now tell us how the sword is a symbol peace, love and tolerance!!!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_of9ue2vob2g/SfEyTguVYdI/AAAAAAAAIrQ/ajB39yzRZQw/s400/Saudi+Arabia+flag1.gif

---

Idea for the 11 September 2001 attacks plot originated with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who had been active in the Philippines in the mid-1990s, and was an uncle of Ramzi Yousef, who was involved in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi were both experienced and respected jihadists in the eyes of al-Qaeda leader, Osama bin Laden. Mihdhar and Hazmi

Mihdhar and Hazmi were also potential pilot hijackers, but did not do well in their initial pilot lessons in San Diego. Both were kept on as "muscle" hijackers, who would help overpower the passengers and crew, and allow the pilot hijackers to take control of the flights. In addition to Mihdhar and Hazmi, thirteen other muscle hijackers were selected in late 2000 or early 2001. All were from Saudi Arabia, with the exception of Fayez Banihammad, who was from the United Arab Emirates.[citation needed]

Hijackers: Mohamed Atta (Egyptian), Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian), Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian).[4]

 

Two flight attendants called the American Airlines reservation desk during the hijacking. Betty Ong reported that "the four hijackers had come from first-class seats: 2A, 2B, 9A, and 9B."[5] Flight attendant Amy Sweeney called a flight services manager at Logan Airport in Boston and described them as Middle Eastern.[5] She gave the staff the seat numbers and they pulled up the ticket and credit card information of the hijackers, identifying Mohamed Atta.[6]

 

Mohamed Atta was heard speaking over the air traffic control system, broadcasting messages he intended for the passengers.[7]

 

Hijackers: Marwan al-Shehhi (United Arab Emirates), Fayez Banihammad (United Arab Emirates), Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian), Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi).[4]

A United Airlines mechanic was called by a flight attendant who stated the crew had been murdered and the plane hijack

Hijackers: Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian), Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian), Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian), Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian), Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian).[4]

Two hijackers, Hani Hanjour and Majed Moqed were identified by clerks as having

 

Two of the passengers had been on the FBI's terrorist-alert list: Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi.

 

Hijackers: Ziad Jarrah (Lebanese), Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian), Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian), Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).[4]

Passenger Jeremy Glick stated that the hijackers were Arabic-looking,…

Edited by Arpa
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