Medieval Armenian Military

[Dave]

Does anyone have some information on Medieval Armenian and Cilician military? (text, pictures, etc.)

 

Thanks.

[Accelerated]

From my (very) limited knowledge I would guess that both had large heavy cavalry components. A lot of the Byzantine cataphracts were from Armenia as the high altitude feed was more rich in protein allowing for greater muscle density and thus ability of the mount to carry more armour. They still had no answer to the mounted archer from the steppe though.

 

Im also very interested in the topic, if you find anything online post it here.

[Dave]

When I search 'Armenian soldiers' in google, sites such as tallarmeniantales, or khojali come up.

 

 

Nevertheless, I found some pictures in this site.

 

I found some more info from a modding site.

 

Caucasian Mountaineers

 

When the Armenian Naxarars (lords) fled Armenia from the onslught of the Seljuk turks, they bought their retinues and warriors with them. Caucasian mountaineers were one group of mercanaries that fought for the Armenians, for the promise of plunder. They are tough fighters, having lived in harsh mountain regions, however are not well equipped and will not stand up to more heavily armed troops. They are experts at hiding in various terrain types.

 

Armenian Infantry

 

The bulk of the Armenian army is made up their infantry. When Armenia was governed by the Byzantines, large numbers were drafted into the Byzantine army, and many posts in Asia Minor were manned by Armenian troops. After the Byzantine defeat at Manzikert (spelling?) and Asia Minor subsequently being overrun by the Seljuk turks, the Armenian militia members left the byzantine army to return to their homelands, and to the new Armenian province of Silicia. These would be like the ones in your XL mod.

 

Armenian Borderers

 

The passes in the mountainous areas surrounding both the Armenian homelands as well as Armenian Cilicia are patrolled by these border gaurds. They can hide anywhere, and many a Turkish raid has been stopped before their targets by a well timed charged from the border gaurds, suprising and defeating them. Because ambushing was the best way to defeat the Turkish invaders, heavy equipment cannot be taken, and so these men should not be used for the front line of a battle, but for hiding and ambushing unwary opponents. Only buildable in the Armenian home provinces, plus the Armenian home kingdom (currently owned by the Seljuk Turks).

 

Early Didebuls

 

Didebuls were the minor land owning classes in Armenia, comparable to the feudal knights of Western Europe. They were responsible for security of the surrounding area, and so needed to be skilled with use of arms, favouring use of horses. Like many Armenians, they left their ravaged homelands and journeyed to Cilicia. This uit would represent the Armenians before they had great contact with the crusaders, and so their appearance would definately be eastern. They are spear armed cavalry, and so would have a strong charge. Like in your XL mod.

 

Latin Auxiliaries

 

When the crusaders first came into contact with the Armenians in Cilicia, they were pleased to have some friendly neighbours. After the crusaders were successful in capturing Jerusaleum, and the subsequent infighting between the states, many went on to act as Mercenaries to other Christian powers nearby, such as Armenia. Their amount was bolstered by large numbers of crusaders leaving the fourth crusade shortly after the capture of Constantinople. They are expensive to use, but have good experience from fighting a variety of enemies, and so can be relied upon in battle.

 

High Didebuls

 

Contact with the crusaders led to many of their practices being adopted by the Armenians, including their arms and armour. The Didebuls, minor landowning classes, became heavily armoured knights, able to defeat most opponents they can catch. It is tremendously expensive to equip a warrior in this fashion, but the results are often worth the cost! The high didebuls should take two turns to build, and once again only be buildable in the Armenian home provinces, but not the old Armenian Kingdom. They would look like the ones in your XL mod.

 

Hospitaller Foot Knights

 

The Knights Hospitaller were founded originally to gaurd hospitals for pilgrims in the holy land, but soon evolved into a fully fledged fighting order. Only nobility could be accepted, and had to undertake strict vows to join. The Knights hospitaller were all full time elite knights, rarely running from battle and fighting on against desperate odds! The Knights hospitaller also had many estates in Aragon and assisted in the reconquista, and were also given many border estates by the Cilician armenians, to act as a buffer against the Turks. They could fight just as effectively dismounted as they could mounted. They should take two turns to build, but not receive any territorial restrictions, as historically they had a vast range of estates. They are good, but expensive, and they are a small unit too, so I hope that this balances them well.

 

Eastern Crossbows

 

generic eastern Crossbow uit. The reason I think they should be high tier is because they are very good shooters, and will outrange bows, and are an excellent counter to horse archers (as they were historically). As horse archers are vulnerable to missiles, and have shorter range, it would be too unbalancing if crossbows could be had earlier, and factions like the Cumans and Turks would be in a lot of trouble. Of course they would have a slower rate of fire than bows.

 

Bedouin Warriors

 

Bedouins were arab nomads who lived almost entirely off their Camels. Camels were used for food, clothing, mounts, milk and even camel urine was used to wash hair, getting rid of lice! Armenians made use of groups of Bedouins in many of their armies after the Turks arrived, becuase the Seljuks were driving the Bedouins off their land just as they were driving off the Armenians. the Bedouins are camel mounted warriors, who should cause fear in horses but be vulnerable to missiles. Fairly fragile, but with a decent charge value due to the spear.

 

Naxarar

 

The Naxarar were the significant land owners of Armenia, like the feudal lords of Europe. They were administrators in peace time, and warriors in war time, fighting as a well equipped heavy cavalry unit. You could have an early and high version, like in your XL mod, to represent the adoption of European arms and armour.

 

Finally, this unit would be a mercenary unit, hireable in Cilicia through to the Armenian homelands and Georgia.

 

Azat Cavalry

 

The Azats were the cavalry of Armenia. After the Turks over ran he Armenian homeland, the Azats found themselves landless, and so many became mercenaries, offering themselves to not just the highest bidder, but every bidder, be it Seljuk, Byzantine, Georgian or Armenian. They served in with many different factions, sometimes even fighting against each other, and due to their skills as fast cavalrymen were in constant demand. This unit is the Armenian heavy cavalry of MTW. I made their upkeep higher than what their stats should suggest to represent the fact they are mercenaries, and ment to complement an army, not form the bulk of it. Should be useful to the Turks, who did not have good cavalry lancers.

Edited May 22, 2005 by Dave

[kars]

Does anyone have some information on Medieval Armenian and Cilician military? (text, pictures, etc.)

 

Thanks.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Ever heard of janissary?

 

The best of the best in Turkish armies (though not all of them were necessarily Armenian by origin).

[Dave]

Most of the janissaries were from the Balkans. For Armenians, Greeks, Serbs, and Bulgarians, they aren't something to be proud of...

[kars]

Most of the janissaries were from the Balkans. For Armenians, Greeks, Serbs, and Bulgarians, they aren't something to be proud of...

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

"Most of the janissaries were from the Balkans."

 

There is no statistics re ethic composition of janissaries – we can only speculate. Besides, the sources of their recruitment always changed, as time went by. And it means that no one (including you) can be so sure – as far as the percentage of Armenians in that perfect war machine is concerned. But consider this: knowing that this institution (janissary) came into being much earlier than Ottomans conquered Balkans, it is fair to assume it was originally composed of aboriginals of Anatolia and Caucasus. So much for that.

 

"For Armenians, Greeks, Serbs, and Bulgarians, they aren't something to be proud of"

 

I didn’t think we were talking about “pride”. Facts are facts. “Pride” belongs to another category.

 

For example, Abdulhamid the Second was Armenian, from maternal line. Now – analyse this fact and combine it with “pride” (whatever you mean by “pride”). I thought we were talking about history, and not about sentiments.

 

Regarding Bulgarians (which you mentioned). Didn’t you know Bulgars are slavicised and christianised Turks by origin, to begin with? Didn’t you know they spoke Turkic, as their native language, at the time the institution of janissaries was being introduced?

[Dave]

There is no statistics re ethic composition of janissaries – we can only speculate. Besides, the sources of their recruitment always changed, as time went by. And it means that no one (including you) can be so sure – as far as the percentage of Armenians in that perfect war machine is concerned. But consider this: knowing that this institution (janissary) came into being much earlier than Ottomans conquered Balkans, it is fair to assume it was originally composed of aboriginals of Anatolia and Caucasus. So much for that.

 

As you said, we can only speculate.

 

Regarding Bulgarians (which you mentioned). Didn’t you know Bulgars are slavicised and christianised Turks by origin, to begin with? Didn’t you know they spoke Turkic, as their native language, at the time the institution of janissaries was being introduced?

 

No. The point is that they were Christians.

 

For example, Abdulhamid the Second was Armenian, from maternal line.

 

You beleive that? Abdulhamid's father probably had a harem of 50 or more women... and one of them happened to be Armenian, and her son happened to be Abdul Hamid II. I don't even think little Hamid knew which one of the harem women was his mother.

 

I didn’t think we were talking about “pride”. Facts are facts. “Pride” belongs to another category.

 

Yes, but we weren't talking about Ottoman military either...

[kars]

Hahahaha!!

 

Don’t you want to know what Abdulhamid II’s nickname was among nationalistically inclined Turks in Constantinople just before s*** hit the fan? It was “Bedros” – Bolis Turkish colloquial derogatory epithet for “Armenian” (like “Khachik” in Russia today).

 

A hint: look at some pictures of Abdulhamid II and let me know: does he look like a Turk, or does he look like a Bedros? Hmmm… ?

 

Let's be honest.

Edited May 23, 2005 by kars

[Dave]

Then why did he massacre 200 000 to 300 000 Armenians?

[hovo73]

Hi I am new to this site and this is my first post.

 

I believe Plutarch, even though he was before middle ages, described Armenian army of Tigran II time in some great detail. His description is somewhat biased as he tried to depict all the oponents of Roman empire as brutes and barbarians. I don't have any texts or links in front of me right now, but if anyone is interested in this I will try to find some.

 

I also should have some links to sources about this topic from later period, early middle ages, during the reign of Arshakuni dinasty. I will also try to see if I can find them.

 

One thing I would like to add, is that it seems the nucleus of Armenian Army in this time was the cavalry which consisted mostly of nobility, naxarar's, sepuh's and azats. It was quite large in proportion to infantry, especially when compared to western armies of Rome and Buzantium. It was called "ayrudzi" which consists of junction of two words words "ayr" (man), "u" (and), "dzi" (horse).

 

As mentioned before, Armenian cavalry used a special breed of horses. They were bred in Armenian, in regions of Syuniq and Artsax, and they wre well known, valued, and sought after for their strength and stamina.

 

Armenian cavalry was a sought after prize buy both Persian and Roman rules during their prolonged confrontation in early Middle Ages, both countries always tried to entice Armenian kings and nobles and thus the cavalry to fight on their side.

 

EDIT Here are some of the sources I was referring to:

The Sparapetut'iwn in Armenia in the Fourth and Fifth Centuries

The Turco-Mongol Invasions and the

Armenian Historical Sources of the 5-15th Centuries

Classical Armenian Literature (some of the same as above)

Edited May 24, 2005 by hovo73

[Zartonk]

Hi there Dave!

 

I have at my house a Persian translation of the French "History of Armenia" by Hrant Basturmachian. It has an extensive section on the Armenian military during Tigran the Great, Really in depth. Ill try to translate it ASAP and post it up.

[archakhper]

Dave and Accelerated, the webmaster of this website http://www.angelfire.com/hi/Azgaser/ had written an article years ago about the Armenian origin of the two wheeled, standing platform war chariot pulled by one or two horses. This unit has a name, but I don't recall what it is. Anyway, from what I remember of the article, this effective and highly mobile military unit had Armenian or proto-Armenian origins.

 

If you email him I"m sure he may be able to give you more information on his sources. In fact I'm sure I have a copy of that article somewhere--meaning I'd have to do a lot of digging to find it. So if you can't get any info from him, let me know and I'll try to find it.

 

Obviously, other similar chariots existed previous to this one, but I belive there was some specific innovation, which markedly increased its effectiveness, that was traced to Armenian origin.

 

This is just some picture I found on the Internet, But I believe it looked something like this:

 

[gamavor]

BOOK VII

THE SEVENTH BOOK OF THE HISTORIES, CALLED POLYMNIA

 

 

"The Phrygians had an equipment very like that of the Paphlagonians with some slight difference. Now the Phrygians, as the Macedonians say, used to be called Brigians during the time that they were natives of Europe and dwelt with the Macedonians; but after they had changed into Asia, with their country they changed also their name and were called Phrygians. The Armenians were armed just like the Phrygians, being settlers from the Phrygians. Of these two together the commander was Artochmes, who was married to a daughter of Dareios. 74. The Lydians had arms very closely resembling those of the Hellenes."

 

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/h/her...m/chapter7.html

 

Armenian military outfit was very similar to any of the Greek tribes in Asia Minor.

[Dave]

Archakhper, I'm fairly sure that Armenians never used chariots because of Armenia's mountainous landscape which renders chariots almost useless.

 

Armenian military outfit was very similar to any of the Greek tribes in Asia Minor.

 

I'm sure you're right, but Armenian military outfits changed during the Medieval age, after the arrival of Arabs, Turks, (Bagratuni Kingdom) and Crusaders (Kilikian Kingdom). The Armenian military of Kilikia had European influences.

[gamavor]

Archakhper, I'm fairly sure that Armenians never used chariots because of Armenia's mountainous landscape which renders chariots almost useless.

 

No one could be fairly sure because hardly anyone of us was a contemporary to those times. There are few historic references that suggest otherwise.

 

Chariots were quite fashionable among Persian troops. Romans used them also. King Tigran saved the life of the Roman emperor by 'pacifying a charging chariot'.

 

Some Armenian manuscripts also depict chariots be it as military equipment of civilian mean of transportation.

[Dave]

Persians might have used them because most of the fighting was done in Mesopotamia which was a flat region.

 

Romans used them during parades, but not in the battlefield.

 

Infantry was much more popular back then. Cavalry was used a lot too, but it became more effective with the invention of the stirrup.