Next To Hovhannes Ayvazovski ?

[MosJan]

ՃԻՇՏ ՀՈՎՀԱՆՆԵՍ ԱՅՎԱԶՈՎՍԿՈՒ ԱՐՁԱՆԻ ԿՈՂՔԻՆ

 

Մայրաքաղաքի կենտրոնի հասարակական արտաքնոցներից մի քանիսը քանդվեցին, դրանց տեղում սրճարան, դիսկոտեկ կամ բար կառուցեցին: Դրանց բացակայությունը լրացնում են գետնուղիները, այգիներն ու շենքերի մուտքերը (գիշերային ժամերին): Այս վայրերով շունչներս պահած անցնելով, հետո սրտխառնոց ու գլխապտույտ էլ ենք ունենում: Մասնավորապես հրապարակի մետրոյի կանգառը շարունակող փոքրիկ անցուղին կամ կից այգու տարածքը, որտեղ մի ժամանակվա սրճարանային տաղավարների մետաղյա կմախքները գիշերվա որոշ անցորդների կամ անօթեւանների համար արտաքնոց են ծառայում (գարշահոտությունը դա է ենթադրում): Հասարակական վայրերում դրանց անհրաժեշտությունը զգում են նաեւ քաղաքային իշխանությունները, սակայն դեռ որոշակի քայլեր չեն արվում:

 

Երեւանի ամենագեղեցիկ զբոսայգիներից մեկում՝ Կամերային երաժշտության տան դիմաց երկար ժամանակ աղբակույտերի ու շների հարեւանությամբ «ապաստանած» բոմժերի ընտանիքը գիշեր-ցերեկ կրակ էր վառում՝ տաքանալու, ու կուպրի նման թանձր ու ծխի քուլաները հանգիստ նստում էին կամերային տան պատերին: Հիմա նրանք չկան: Կամերային տնից քիչ ներքեւ՝ այգում, անցած տարի տեղադրվեց հայ տաղանդավոր ծովանկարիչ Հովհ. Այվազովսկու արձանը:

 

Երեւանի գրեթե բոլոր այգիներն իրենց տերերն ունեն: Կամերային այգու՝ «Իններորդ ալիք» կոչված տարածքում երկու սրճարան ու թենիսի սեղաններ են տեղադրված: Երեւանն, իհարկե, միայն չեն քանդում, այստեղ երբեմն նաեւ կառուցում են՝ յուրաքանչյուրն իր հնարավորությունների ու ճաշակի հանգույն: Այս այգում էլ շինարարական թեեւ փոքր, բայց աշխատանք արվում է, արտաքնոց է կառուցվում, վճարովի է լինելու, հասարակական, բացօթյա սրճարաններին կից: Քաղաքապետարանն ու թաղապետարանը փոխարեն ֆինանսավորելու ու հսկողություն սահմանելու (մաքրություն եւ այլն), երկար ժամանակ թույլտվություն չէին տալիս, այս տարածքում նման վայր չկա, իսկ սա անհրաժեշտ է, եւ այգու տիրոջ ճաշակով արտաքնոցը կառուցվում է կենտրոնում, Կամերային տնից մի փոքր ներքեւ, ճիշտ Հովհ. Այվազովսկու արձանի կողքին: Չնայած շինարարներն ասացին, որ լվացարանով, կաֆելապատ, դրսից կանաչավուն գրանիտով պատված է լինելու եւ մաքրությանն էլ հետեւելու են, բայց մերոնց կենցաղային կուլտուրան նկատի առնելով՝ դժվար թե շրջակայքը տհաճություն չբուրի: Առաջ դրանք ստորգետնյա շինություններ էին լինում, հիմա՝ հերիք չէ այգու կենտրոնում է ցցված, դեռ «զարդարելու» է մշակութային տունն ու արձանը: (Նորմալ տներում հաստատ փոքրիկ երեխայի պետքարանը սենյակի կենտրոնում չեն դնի: Անցյալում գյուղաբնակները դրանք տեղադրում էին տնից բավական հեռու, տնամերձ հողամասի ամենահեռու անկյունում): Հիմա՝ Երեւանի կենտրոնական այգիներից մեկում՝ ճիշտ կենտրոնում, Այվազովսկու արձանի մոտ:

 

Այս ծառայությունն իր «աշխատանքային ժամերը» համապատասխանեցնելու է սրճարանի հետ, այսինքն՝ եթե հիմնականում աշխատողների համար է, ապա դա հասարակական անհրաժեշտություն էլ չի ունենալու, ուրեմն հնարավոր չէ՞ր մեկ ուրիշ տեղ գտնել, մասնավորապես սրճարանի տարածքում: (Շինարարներն ասացին, թե կոյուղին այստեղով է անցնում, ամենից կարեւորը դա է, մնացածն անկարեւոր է):

 

Մ. Բ.

[Nazarian]

I think it's better than the street johns in Amsterdam.http://www.myworldtour.org/images/amsterdam/toiletstreetcrop.jpg

[ED]

they, the Dutch, are having sex like animals in street corners and shoot smut in dining rooms, (not to mention having sex with animals) do you think we should take Holland as an example and justify the toilet being build next to Ayvazovski's statue as OK?

[Z'areh]

Does a famous painter of Armenian origin be considered as an Armenian painter?

 

Does his art represent Armenian culture?

 

I would say Ayvazovsky has more in common with Turner than anything Armenian.

 

I don't cosidere him to be an Armenian painter as Sarian or Avedisian are for example.

 

Is Andre Agasi an Armenian tennis player?

[MosJan]

see this link

http://www.elibron.com/english/order/send_...ml?msg_id=21023

 

Noah Descending From Ararat

http://www.learnarmenian.com/armenianart/national/ARM05L.JPG

 

you tell me

 

 

"Aivazovsky made his way to the contemporary art guided by his own rules, and his own sprit of world view."

see my next post

[MosJan]

http://www.iatp.am/culture/aivazovsky/aivbioeng3.htm

 

Hovhannes Aivazovsky, came into being in a period when romanticism was in a violent struggle against academism.

Romantic at heart, as he was, Aivazovsky did not extricate himself from a number of doctrines of his academic schooling, though in the early period of his career he attained a wonderfully vivid and emotional understanding of the reality. He created an original method of colour -linear composition without contradicting to the theme that he chose. Gradually this idiom or expression underwent changes, the artist's palette grew brighter and came right up to plein-air painting.

Thus, Aivazovsky made his way to the contemporary art guided by his own rules, and his own sprit of world view.

The concept of nature's infinity, its creative, mighty force is just the basis of Aivazovsky's art. Aivazovsky, as a rule, represents the terrible storms against the background of men helping one another in the struggle against the formidable elements of nature. The man will not give in, man will win - this vivid motto of the artist mirrors the profound optimism and tenacity of life, so characteristic of his own people.

The light as a notion plays a considerable role in Aivazovsky's art. The perceptive observer will feel that representing waves, clouds and air perspectives Aivazovsky in fact paints or rather emphasizes the light itself. Light in his art is the symbol of life, hope and faith, the token of eternity.

Aivazovsky inherited those traditions from the sunny songs of the mediaeval poets which he heard in the armenian churches. This is what he wrote about his paintings: "Among my works I would isolate as the best ones those which emphasize the light of the Sun with particular strength". In his last canvases the light falls on the nature from an invisible source as a powerful ray furrowing through the dark ("The Ship Maria", "Amidst the Waves"). Aivazovsky possessed an original system of artistic thinking due to which his art overstepped the accepted cannons of the painting of his time. Those peculiarities should be seen in the solutions, that sometimes reach colour abstraction in his canvases.

Aivazovsky's free-hand drawing disregards any role conforming only to the artist's will that affirms his originality. At the same time, in the same picture he creates a wonderful, transparent decorative tonality where the red, the blue, the green, the yellow and the pink from a wonderful harmony. Observing for example "The Tenth Wave", "Shipwreck off Mount Athos", "The Battle of Sinop", "Fishermen on the Shore", "The Sea" etc. for an instance one forgets theme of the painting itself, and takes it as a song of colours, as an ode to beauty.

With the emotional appeal, passion and poetic spirit of his paintings, responding to the needs of the time, and with his superb accomplishment, Aivazovsky scaled at once the heights of European art. With the same merits to his credit, he imparted a fresh breath to russian painting, becoming one of its best-known figures throughout the world. But Aivazovsky was also closely connected with the armenian culture still in his lifetime with his creative character and the national roots of his view of the world.

It should be mentioned, however, that the pure national in art finds its expression in the idiom of style and shape as well.

Receiving professional education at European and russian academies, the armenian painters brought new methods of representation to the national art which adapted a new shape being mixed with their temperament. This natural process of interplay is the basis of the development of human culture, a process which gradually leads to the crystallization of the national features of art.

Aivazovsky has a great contribution in that process. A painter whose name is inseparable from the new period of the development of armenian art.

Aivazovsky's house was sort of a pilgrimage where armenian writers and poets used to gather. Many actors and musicians displayed their skill on the exhibition hall.

When travelling in Transcaucasia in 1868, Aivazovsky depicted the mountain scenary, "The life of Tiflis", "The Lake Sevan", "Mount Ararat", and its valley scape, thus marking the beginning of the landcsape painting in the armenian Fine Arts. To this series belong his canvas "Noah Descending Ararat" in which, with delicate harmony of light tints, he emphasized the freshness of the air overflown with dawn, the biblical eminence of the scene.

Prominent for their execution and psychological features among scores of his canvases of armenian themes are distinguished the portraits of his grandmother, his brother Gabriel Aivazian, catholicos Khrimian Hayrik, and the mayor of New Nakhijevan A. Khalibian. The artist portrayed his wife Anna Bournazian- Aivazovskaya with light strokes peculiar to his marines. Belonging to the armenian opostolic (Gregorian) church,

Aivazovsky created a series of paintings based on biblical and hitorical themes. Some of his last canvases like "The Baptism of the armenian People", "Oath. Vartan Mamikonian" decorated one of the armenian churches in Feodosia for a long time. A number of paintings devoted to the everyday life of the armenian shepherds and the canvas "A Scene of Tiflis" are of great interest.

Surveying Aivazovsky's art in the whole it should be mentioned, however, that one cannot imagine the historical development of the armenian art ignoring his great contribution to it. While accepting him as a russian painter it is not possible to characterize his works without taking into consideration the armenian roots in his art. That is why belonging to the russian culture Aivazovsky equally belongs to armenian culture as well.

 

Gulumian Armine

[gamavor]

I think it's better than the street johns in Amsterdam.http://www.myworldtour.org/images/amsterdam/toiletstreetcrop.jpg

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

 

HAYDARAGUTYUN!

 

The fact that the same or worse happens in Amsterdam doesn't make me any less angry or happier.

[ED]

http://c.anouchian.free.fr/ayvazovski.htm

 

Zareh check out his complete works here; yes he was a great Armenian,

The story goes........he named his dog after "sultan hamid" and hanged the medals he recived from sultan after the hamidian massacres on his dogs neck as a display of what he thought of him.

 

Zareh, please, lets not question Ayvazovski or some one at his caliber as being an Armenian.

[MosJan]

iy henst dra hamar HAnrajaach yev HAruts chem uzzum darnal

im hetevits el en es tesak baner xoselu

[ED]

eh~~~~ silva kaputikyanin hishetsi vor asumer.......yerevanum 3 hat jamanakin ........lav aveli lav e chasem

[kars]

Does a famous painter of Armenian origin be considered as an Armenian painter?

 

Does his art represent Armenian culture?

 

I would say Ayvazovsky has more in common with Turner than anything Armenian.

 

I don't cosidere him to be an Armenian painter as Sarian or Avedisian are for example.

 

Is Andre Agasi an Armenian tennis player?

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

I think in art style, composition and theme are secondary factors, in this respect (unlike, let’s say, in literature, where the language should be the primary criterion: is William Saroyan an Armenian writer? – No.)

 

Modern Dutch painters do not follow Rembrandt’s style, but they are still Dutch painters (Dutch came to mind since Edward mentioned them here, and pictured them quite accurately).

 

In art, I believe, ethno-cultural background and culturally inherited personal skills, talents and inner philosophy are the most important criteria to define the affiliation of an artist with one or another nationality or culture. In this respect – yes, Aivazovsky is definitely an Armenian artist.

 

I have a tougher question: should Sayat Nova be considered an Armenian poet (bard)? Keep in mind, that the overwhelming majority of his khaghs (“songs”) were in Turkic; Armenian ones being only #3 on the list, by quantity (after Turkic and Georgian). In fact, his Turkic-language works outnumber Armenian in 3 to 1 ratio. And never mind that his music is anything but Armenian.

[ED]

Sayat Nova is, was considered as a poet, singer, and a humanitarian by all Nationalities in the region, he played and sang in Armenian, Georgian, Turkish, Kurdish, Farsi, as well as Russian, he was bigger then life, he does not belong only to Armenians, but all of Humanity....one of the biggest and visionary Armenians of all times.

[kars]

Well said, Edward.

[ED]

"should like to see any power of the world destroy this race; this small tribe of unimportant people

whose history is ended, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled,

whose literature is unread, whose music is unheard, whose prayers are no longer uttered.

Go ahead, destroy this race. Let us say that it is again 1915 there is war in the world. Destroy Armenia.

See if you can do it. Send them from their homes into the desert. Let them have neither bread nor water.

Burn their houses and their churches. See if they will not live again.

See if they will not laugh again. See if you can stop them from mocking the big ideas of the world.

You sons of bitches. Go ahead, try to destroy them.

 

 

William Saroyan

[Anoushik]

Akh... every time I read this I am overcome with pride and grieve...

[Z'areh]

I think there is a misunderstanding here, I am not questioning the "Armenianess" of Ayvazovsky, and my intention is not to offend anybody, but this is an issue that is brought up in arts circles (and no there is no concpiracy here, it is just a discussion of ideas) that an artist's origin does not necessarily reflect the art of his/her nation.

 

This is about artists who are of Armeian origin VS. Armenian art. Our history being as it is puts us in a peculiar position where someone can grow up in Lebanon and without setting a foot in Armenia paint Etchmiadzin or Ararat or other Armenian subjects (e.g. Norikian).

 

Shahen Khachatrian, who is the director of National Art Gallery and Martiros Saryan Museum consideres Ayvazovsky a great Armenian painter becuase "his use of light in his paintings comes from deeply rooted Armenian sense of light being the Saviour or fight for self determination"

 

he writes:

 

"The concept of light is all important to Aivazovsky. The perceptive viewer will observe that while painting the waves, clouds or sky space, the Artist's emphasis is on the light. In Aivazovsky's art light is the eternal symbol for life, hope and faith. This is light the Creator, the concept of which has its roots deep down in Armenian culture and its continuity in the next generation of Armenian artists. The Artist had heard the songs of the medieval poets glorifying light in the Armenian churches. In his last works ("Amidst the Waves") the light descends from an unseen source as mighty ray that pierces the darkness and establishes hope.

 

In the canvases depicting storms (which constitute more that half of Aivazovsky's legacy) man's solidarity to man is apparent in the struggle against the elements. Man does not give up; he triumphs. This is the expression of the popular trait of extreme optimism and resistance. The irony in Aivazovsky's romanticism is the faith that man (this tiny creature of the Universe) has in life and Nature. In the politically turbulent 19th century, it is this same unshakable faith that the Armenian people had in their struggle for self-determination."

 

sorry, but the above is at best a very weak description of what qualifies an Armenian art. Ayvazovsky's artistic contribution can be catagorized as universal, a contribution for all humankind and for that we should be very proud, but he is not a representative of Armenian art.

 

As for the "Noah's descending from Ararat" a beautiful painting, so are Sarian's Egyptian market, and "African Masks" paintings, they don't make him an Egyptian nor an African painter.

[Artaxias]

Using such criteria, there is hardly anything Armenian out there or any Armenians at all. And art is simple compared to say music, try and answer the question as to what qualifies as Armenian music?

[MosJan]

"what qualifies as Armenian music" - well that’s a whole new topic My friend

All I can do at this time without getting in to details o fit just gave you examples of music and time – and hope it will help you decide

 

 

if your looking for Zulal ~ Jinj 100% Armenian Music than you need to go to roots of our music - find music that has been hand dawn to us from pre Christ Times Like Sharakans

Xazagir’s are Armenian Sheet Music

“

Since ancient times, the Armenian nation has had its own system of notation which is called "the system of the Armenian khaz." It is a type of neumatic notation. The khaz system made it possible to put down monovocal melodies and sharakans, as they indicated the voice pitch, its duration, the strength of the voice, hue, the ornamentation of the melodic line, and other elements.

 

Khaz notation was used for about 10 centuries, from the 8th to the 18th centuries. However, as it contained a great amount of different symbols and conventional signs, khaz notation was difficult to use on a practical basis, in respect of putting down the melody and reading it. This is why it was gradually put out of use, and in the 18th-19th centuries it was completely forgotten. Starting from the beginning of the first quaarter of the 19th century, a new, simpler, and easier to use system was introduced in Armenian music.

 

The new system was compiled and developed by the musician and reformer of the Armenian notation, teacher Hampartsoom Limonjian (1768-1839). After thorough and careful study of Armenian spiritual music throughout many years, he created the {Armenian new notation} in the years 1813-15. The reasons for creating this new system are the following:

1) To make the notation system easier to learn and use. 2) To compile a system which would use some elements of the old khaz notation.

As the new system is also neumatic and is not applied to the European 5-line bar system, it gives the chance to write the melody in the space between the lines of the text of the {spiritual} poems, thus facillitating the vocal performance of the texts. On his journeys of studies and recording of folk music, Komitas mostly used this notation system.

There are many text books teaching this notation system, the most famous of which are those by Nikoghayos Tashjian {Vagharshapat, 1874}, Arshak Broutian {Vagharshapat, 1890}, and Robert Atayan {Yerevan, 1950}. This notation has been used till our days, and is being taught at the Yerevan State Conservatory, Gevorgian Seminary, and other musical establishments. Thousands of sharakans, chants, melodies, and the Armenian Mass have reached us in this notation.

Find some  mor info >>

http://www.music.ch/face/instrum/armenia_instrum.html

”

 

if after Christ the one of the first one is Komitas and his work that you can easily find, his music is Zulal and many times even free of outside influence – most of the music that he has documented all over Armenia from General public was “joghovrdakan ~ Gerchkakan” so it has some influence of our neighbors -

 

Please remember the songs stayed the same - but some portions of the music and the way it’s singed has changed do to Mugham influence & Time – in 17th century even some of our religious songs have changed a bit - mugham has even got in to our church and it’s widely used even today

I have post this before but just to remind or as example - Song of Hethanos times – Vahagni Tsnund – now days is used in Armenian church - melody is somewhat same, words have been changed and instead of Vahagn it’s Jesus now - wan before it was free of any mugham now it has mugham in it

so the basics are the same but some aspects have changed – mainly performance

 

if Modern/Pop Estrada music then Babajanian, Amikhanyan and many others ....

Despite the influence from our neighbors & Time our music and songs always have melodist that are unique to Armenians and Armenian Culture

 

BAyst inch KAyfa che Hye Linel@ yerb An@ndhat pit Apatsutses te inch e HAykakan - yerb mer harevaner@ shat aveli hangist anvanum en irents@ iyn amen@inch karrogh en

[Artaxias]

Lsi, vortegh karogh em gtnel orinak, tekuz Komitas, aranc voch mi et qo asats "mugham"-nerov ?

[MosJan]

KOmitas yerger@ te KOmitasi KAtarum@ ???

yete KAtarum@ @endhamen@ mek hat CD ka - or inqn e yergum

isk yerger@ shat kan

[Artaxias]

KOmitas  yerger@  te  KOmitasi  KAtarum@ ???

yete KAtarum@  @endhamen@ mek hat CD ka  -  or inqn e  yergum

isk yerger@  shat  kan

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Katarum@ che. Yes Komitas lsel em, skavarakner el unem. Bayc arandsnapes chem karogh asel vor ayd katarumneri mej "mugham"-i azdecutyun chkar kam ourish turqakan "zibil".

Chem asum Bambir, bayc aveli nenc joghovrtakan eli.

Edited June 10, 2005 by Artaxias

[MosJan]

Partadir chi bambir gtir T@gzar Xmbi KAtarumner@ - MAratuk Hamuyti - Shater@ kan

yev mi ban hishir - MUghami yev DziynaXahi mej mets tarberutyun KA - amen yelevej Mugham chi yev amen dziynaXagh ( Zulal ) chi.

dra hamar henst mugham pit sovores or imanas te mugham@ inch e - yev nor dranits heto zerts pahes qez iyn ogtagortseluts yete katarum es Zulaln HAykakan yerg kam yerajshtutyun

 

mugham@ uni ir orenqner@ ir teskner@ - tarbervum en irarits nuynisk nuyn yerkri tarber maseri kataroghneri kormits, sakayn nuyn printsipn e - amen inchi himqum @enkats e Parskakan Mughami orinachaputyun@ - sakayn voch patradir katarman dzev@ yev tonaynutyun@

orinak - Rasti Mugham@ - bavakanin taratsvats - nuynisk Sayat NOvan uni iys mughami v@Ra himnavats yerger - tarber e HAyeri katarum@ yev tarber e PArskakan kam turqakan katarum@

 

bavakanin bard yev sensativ e iys harts@ - nuynisk shat yev shat yerajishtner chen uzzum xosel sra masin - shater@ "zahla" chunen - shatern el giteliq@ vor inqner@ tarberen te inch e zulal inch@ "vertsnovi"

[MosJan]

de hima het veradarnanq Ayvazovskun yev ir n@karnerin

[Z'areh]

Using such criteria, there is hardly anything Armenian out there or any Armenians at all. And art is simple compared to say music, try and answer the question as to what qualifies as Armenian music?

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

 

Very good point, however if we discuss specific artists, in this case Ayvazovsky, then we have to consider his style and school of his art to come to a clear judgment.

 

Aznavour is yet another example of what is NOT Armenian when we describe Armenian music. No one questions his love for Armenia but he has no place in Armenian musical anthology, let's say.

 

What is Armenian music? It is a collection of musical "sentiments" and expressions scattered throughout our vast land from Anatolia to the Caucasus. Is there such a thing as pure or 'Zulal" Armenian music as referred to by Mosjan above? No there is not. We put our own "characters" in communally shared experiences with neighbouring peoples and carve out our own niche throughout centuries. Caucasian highland dance music is markedly different from Mediterranean Cilician dance music. One can hear regional influences such as Daghestani folk elements in the former and Turkish/Arabic influences in the latter, which is absolutely normal.

 

Having lost our independence for centuries further complicates matters to successfully designate what qualifies uniquely as Armenian.

 

Folk tunes collected by Komitas can come as close to “pure” Armenian as it can get, but even then they are a mixture of melodies sung by farmers or young lovers which have influenced their non-Armenian neghbours as well as being influenced by them.

 

Only in post Soviet Armenia some sort of “Armenian school” of painting can be talked about, event though heavily influenced by “Soviet” styles nonetheless with Sarian and later Avetisian we see an emergence of a certain “Armenian” style than can be called a “school”.

 

Aram Khatchaturian, is he an Armenian composer or a Soviet composer? He extensive usage of Armenian folk elements brings him closer to qualifying him as an Armenian composer then say Ayvazovsky with his paintings. But even then we have to be careful with Khatchaturian as his selections of tunes could also include “Caucasian” elements in spirit and essence. There are still people who whistle along “Lezginka” from “Gayaneh” as being an Armenian tune.

 

Arno Babajanian, Tigran Mansourian, Robert Atayan probably can be considered as establishing a true “Armenian” school of music in the classical medium. As for the pop music, just like pop-culture, it is quite universal and no one can claim them to be truly representing Armenian music.

 

This is a very interesting subject, definitely worth looking at, and I’ll be the first to admit that this is a very “abbreviated” or short-hand look at the issue. More in-depth analysis is required in addressing this issue.

 

Armenian Art VS Art by Armenians

[Z'areh]

de hima  het veradarnanq  Ayvazovskun yev  ir  n@karnerin

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

 

I agree MosJan, this is probably not the place to discuss what I wrote, so I join you in enjoying Ayvazosky's art

 

http://www.abcgallery.com/A/aivazovsky/aivazovsky.html

Edited June 10, 2005 by Z'areh