Arvestaked Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I would like to catch the person who voted with this answer and slap macaroni and cheese to his face. style_images/master/snapback.png That would be me, oh ominous and powerful and mature genius armed with pasta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lara-chan Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 i don't believe in it, so i laughed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I am sorry, but that is the most thoughtless and ridiculous phrase I have read in a while. All creation is dependant on prior creation whether its is art or philosophy or technology, etc. And that has absolutely nothing to do with maturity! Also, "fundamentally immature" still seems to have no actual meaning. Yes, but you become mature when you do not depend on your parents anymore. Similarly when you find a simbol that is not dependent on "cross" it may be called mature. If you call what I do immature I can call what you do fundementally immature. What's wrong? I will not excuse you for taking it out of context and I do not give a rat's colon what you do. Well, I guess this is the end of my talk with you. Oh, you got me there! You are right! I have no interest in it and I think it is a part of humanity that needs to be forgotten! You got me! style_images/master/snapback.png Yup, I got you and I threw you to the trash bin as of now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 That would be me, oh ominous and powerful and mature genius armed with pasta. style_images/master/snapback.png Have some sense of humor you .... I am attemptiong to lighten up the situation, apparently you are keen to name calling. I was the one who made the poll and gave such an option to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Name calling? I have a sense of humor. That is why I chose the option laughing at the notion of miracles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 (edited) Sasun, if we all are such Einstein fans, let's say I may share to certain extent his awe and wonder of an "orderly universe". But in this case it would be logical to assume that I don't believe in the supernatural character of stigmata since I also share his disbelief in the cult of a personal God and the religious built-up around it. That is fine by me, I would like to record that you specifically called it a "disbelief". I also feel you're being somewhat inconsistent. You said you were not religious, but here you're keen on sustaining a belief in a "miracle" which links to the most rigid literal understanding of the New Testament. What do you think being religious is all about? Yeah, I believe in the New Testament, but am not religious. Belief in miracles does not make one religious. Like I said, I appreciate all religions. Above all, I don't consider stigmatism as a very good example of a Christian miracle. If the stigmata are the only "tangible" miracles, then the Church is indeed desperate. It creates some image of a sadomasochistic God "rewarding" the pious with suffering the heck knows why, perhaps to prove his existence? Aren't there better ways? It is not the only tangible example, it is only one example. Countless healing miracles have taken place. yeah, I know you don't believe...It has nothing to do with the church as an insititution. It would be good to recognise this distinction. Theoretically in the case of certain extremely sensitive individuals the wounds may be psychosomatic, so they may not all of them may be cheats. Well, maybe and maybe not. You still don't know if it is supernatural or not until you really know. But there is a lot of evidence suggesting that the overall phenomenon is anything but supernatural. It indeed appears to be imitative. There had been no occurrences of stigmatism before the images of crucified Christ with wounds become common, and before St. Francis of Assisi apparently established the pattern as the first "true" stigmatist in thirteenth century. We don't know any cases befor St. Francis, maybe there were and maybe there were not. The article mentions about St. Paul possibly having the same. At any rate, it doesn't matter. There has to be a first time for anything, and let's assume St. Francis' case was the first time. Why would it be impossible? The fact that the stigmata appear differently on their victims – different shapes, sizes and locations, is another strong evidence that the wounds are not genuinely miraculous. Say, how come the shape of your Terese woman's wounds changed over time, apparently as she leaned that Roman nails were a square-shaped? According to my information the wounds were always square. Let me get back to you a little later on Therese Newmann. As for other cases, yes, sure if they were indeed inconsistent like the number of wounds, different places, they were most likely hoaxes, I am again saying that hoaxes are quite possible. But at any rate, you can't expect a very exact replication of the wounds, as different individuals have differences in bodily shapes and sizes. One more thing: just like me, you have no first-hand knowledge of stigmatism. Your Terese woman apparently died some twenty years prior to your birth, and you haven't seen her wounds nor any other stigmata. You have read certain accounts, some that were sympathetic, and chose to believe them, without questioning them much. Believing them is convenient to your position, 'cause by you doing so you seem to get a "tangible" proof of your religion. It doesn't matter, I am sure if I was to witness and write accounts you would disbelieve the same way. Anyway discussing "stigmata" here seems a pretty insane idea to me. You definitely seem enamoured with the idea and pressed the issue to this point, but just consider what a sick, sadomasochistic cult is that. Bloody disgusting indeedy. style_images/master/snapback.png All I care about is if something is true or not. You are giving your subjective opinion, it doesn't matter. All that matters is if stigmata is true or not. As to your characterizations I view it differently. Jesus Christ didn't choose to be crucified, it was something done by others. The stigmata indeed appear disturbing and uncomfortable. But if you think about it, it is meant to suggest people that the story of Jesus Christ is real. What better way to show it rather than replicate the idiosyncretic parts of the story which undoubtedly point to only one story. Yeah, it is bad, but it is not sadomasochistic as you are saying. Edited February 25, 2005 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I will add that self-awarness is the only real miracle. style_images/master/snapback.png Humor is a smaller miracle and probably the consequence of self-awarness but still it is an interesting paradox of mind ... I mean if you think of it subjectively ... it is kinda stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Humor is a smaller miracle and probably the consequence of self-awarness but still it is an interesting paradox of mind ... I mean if you think of it subjectively ... it is kinda stupid style_images/master/snapback.png It`s funny you talk about that, the other day I was think of the "worthless" emotions we had that were not necessary, and humour was one of them, if we find out that an alien specy do have it... hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Here, you want a miracle? You get another one. http://www.exosci.com/news/34.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 I always believed in you! Deep inside, I knew that eventually you will grow up, because I knew that miracles happen! Had I known it would make you so enthusiastic I would have grown up faster style_images/master/snapback.png style_images/master/snapback.png But, you had to first grow up to realize it! PS. I believed in the miracle before I witnessed it! Perhaps it is time to organize a new religion? style_images/master/snapback.png style_images/master/snapback.png How about "The Wiknesses of Sasun!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 (edited) I'm glad to hear that you took into consideration my words when I told you: "grow up dude!" So you are the responsable of his delusional "Chinmoyian" thoughts. style_images/master/snapback.png style_images/master/snapback.png Are you suggesting that I should have told him: "go to hell?" Edited February 26, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 (edited) Solaris, I hear you. Ooh, and I want you hear me.... //The Beatles style_images/master/snapback.png style_images/master/snapback.png I hear you, too loud but not clear enough! Can you hear me now? //The Chimps Edited February 26, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armjan Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 (edited) Maybe I should have told him: "go to hell!" now i don't know who that was about, but I would be very careful in who I wish went to hell. I would not like to see some ppl end up there with me, if u know what i mean. Edited February 26, 2005 by armjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 (edited) now i don't know who that was about, but I would be very careful in who I wish went to hell. I would not like to see some ppl end up there with me, if u know what i mean. style_images/master/snapback.png armjan, I hope that the following will ease your mind: During the Middle Ages, many would sell a "piece of Paradise" in the markets of Rome. One day, a man goes to the market holding a map in his hands and announces to a public anxious to own a piece of Paradise for their "heavenly retirement:" "I just bought Hell and I will not let any of you in. Please go home and spare you money." Edited February 26, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 (edited) I'm glad to hear that you took into consideration my words when I told you: "grow up dude!" So you are the responsable of his delusional "Chinmoyian" thoughts. Are you suggesting that I should have told him: "go to hell?" style_images/master/snapback.png style_images/master/snapback.png style_images/master/snapback.png Domino, I have just browsed the thread "Famous Scientists" and I thought that I should clarify that everything I have said about Sasun on this thread - during the last two days - was mere pleasantry. With the exception of: "I would give Sasun much more credit as a rational and critical mind, regradless of how much I tease him!" I hope that it was obvious! Edited February 27, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 I guess great minds recognise each others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 (edited) I guess great minds recognise each others. style_images/master/snapback.png I'll tell you what I told Sasun, two pages earlier. "I won't explain myself, but that is the Anglo-Saxon [conformist] point of view! Personally, I think that - by definition - a Great Mind is original i.e. to a certain degree unitelligible/unaccessible [/unrecognizable]! (I know that I did not express myself as accurately as I should or could have.)" The Anglo-Saxons have brainwashed "Le Québecois!" What a shame! (The French "denaturer" may be a better word!) PS. I have to admit that the above is based on the ambiguity of the word "recognize!" Edited February 27, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onjig Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 I believe in Miracles ~ I would like one or two right about now ``` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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