Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Sassun, you are confusing the heck out of everyone because you never answer anything directly. We ask you what you believe and you say Islam. We ask you well how come Muslims force people to wear Hijab (in places like Iran) and you say what does that have to do with anything. We ask you why muslims in places like Iran consider non muslims infidels and you say that's not how it is. Well, how is it? Why don't you act like a man and say what you believe instead of avoiding the difficult questions and pretending to believe some sort of super Islam where there is no evidence of such a thing practiced ANYWHERE in real world. Which question(s) have I avoided ? I answered the one on the niqab . The Niqab is not a requirement in Islam , only Hijab is. That some Muslims claim it is so , and go on a rampage when they have to abide by the rules and show their face , says more about them than Islam . if it were up to me these fanatic so-called Muslims would be liquidated from society as they are the cause of suffering and marginalization of the majority of Muslims in the west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Yah but I much rather not be dead because of it. I know I know the many "disagreements" on Islam but you have to understand my distrust of your religion as some of the disagreements put me in a VERY bad predicament I was not talking about predicament, I was talking about taking offense to it, which many people living in the comfort of their homes oceans away from anything "Islamic" , do. at the same time they proudly profess their atheism (unbelief ). hypocrisy at its best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Wearing the Hijab is a woman's choice. The Niqab is not a requirement in Islam , only Hijab is. How can something be both a choice and a requirement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 How can something be both a choice and a requirement? It is a choice in that women can choose not to abide by this requirement ! That'd be their choice ! It is a requirement in that in theory they are supposed to wear it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Wait wait wait ... so you are saying one has the choice to ignore some requirements set forth by Islam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Wait wait wait ... so you are saying one has the choice to ignore some requirements set forth by Islam? I am saying , yes, it is up to women to choose to wear it or not , because there must be no compulsion .But if they do not wear it does not mean I will consider them Muslim ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 ok so there is no choice in Islam. You either wear the Hijab and are muslim, or you don't wear the Hijab and are not muslim. I still don't see how the "Hijab" is a "choice". Seems like Islam is the choice. You see where you are confusing me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 ok so there is no choice in Islam. You either wear the Hijab and are muslim, or you don't wear the Hijab and are not muslim. I still don't see how the "Hijab" is a "choice". Seems like Islam is the choice. You see where you are confusing me? Both Islam and the Hijab are a choice. Just because someone is Muslim 'on paper' does not mean he now has a free pass to do anything he wants under the banner of Islam. If he chooses to do so, then he would rightfully no longer be considered Muslim. He (or she) cannot have his(her) cake and eat it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Sassun, the attack on Islam that you are experiencing is due to the racism of our American members towards Islam. Most of it has come about by a sufficient number of years of brainwashing done by CNN and Fox and episodes of Seinfeld and Borat -- sub-consciously placed in the mind of the average American that Muslims are "bad" and "evil". None of these people have ever befriended a Muslim. If they ever had REAL Muslim friends, they would know that they are ordinary human beings, whose most "radical" believer is not any more "radical" than the most radical Orthodox Jew or most radical Christian. It is these very lies against Islam that are creating a war of civilization. The antidote, the cure to this world dilemma is for people to TAKE control of creating their OWN world view by BEFRIENDING Muslims and peoples of all religions and colors the world over, by spending time with them, and understanding them.... NOT by taking the word of CNN, Fox News, Homer Simpson, Seinfeld, or Borat as Holy! Take the middleman OUT of your process in developing your world view. Take CONTROL of your decision-making. Turn off Corporate Media! Turn on Citizen Media! When you've got people spending money (on ads) to convince you to buy something, you KNOW that that thing can't possibly be good for you, because if it was, its utility would have spread by word-of-mouth... Only your body tells you what you really need. Hence, all advertised goods (the very reason why corporate media exists) is really to your detriment if you buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 No my friend, you just said Hijab is a requirement of Islam. So if someone chooses Islam, then that person must wear the Hijab. If a person chooses not to wear the hijab, then that person is NOT a muslim. So the Hijab is NOT the choice. Islam is. Now that we have established this, this is my question and I think you have answered it. I just need to make sure: In a society in which you live, do you think a person is allowed to choose to be muslim or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Sassun, the attack on Islam that you are experiencing is due to the racism of our American members towards Islam. Most of it has come about by a sufficient number of years of brainwashing done by CNN and Fox and episodes of Seinfeld and Borat -- sub-consciously placed in the mind of the average American that Muslims are "bad" and "evil". Great. Another great discussion interrupted by this bull shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 No my friend, you just said Hijab is a requirement of Islam. So if someone chooses Islam, then that person must wear the Hijab. If a person chooses not to wear the hijab, then that person is NOT a muslim. So the Hijab is NOT the choice. Islam is. That makes no sense. Hijab is a conscious choice that women make. In every decision there are pros and cons, and people must weigh the consequences of their actions. This does not mean women do not have the right not to wear the Hijab. If they do not wear it, they cannot at the same time force an opinion down our throats. As I said, if you do not like the religion, do not take it as your own, rather than proclaim yourself as religious and try to manipulate it to your own ends. Yes, there is no freedom in manipulating Islam. I will give you that. But I have a feeling you already knew that, and also knew that this is not the point about the Hijab being a choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 None of these people have ever befriended a Muslim. If they ever had REAL Muslim friends, they would know that they are ordinary human beings, whose most "radical" believer is not any more "radical" than the most radical Orthodox Jew or most radical Christian. How the hell would you know? I have had (and still have) MANY great muslim friends. I have many great jewish friends. I have had Russian jewish friends. I have good Iranian friends. Stop your childish assumptions. Shahan, consider this a warning. If you keep repeating the same kinds of posts over and over, I will start to edit/delete them. You say the same thing once, twice, ten times great. But after that, it is not posting, it is spamming. And spamming is NOT tolerated on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Sassun, the attack on Islam that you are experiencing is due to the racism of our American members towards Islam. Most of it has come about by a sufficient number of years of brainwashing done by CNN and Fox and episodes of Seinfeld and Borat -- sub-consciously placed in the mind of the average American that Muslims are "bad" and "evil". None of these people have ever befriended a Muslim. If they ever had REAL Muslim friends, they would know that they are ordinary human beings, whose most "radical" believer is not any more "radical" than the most radical Orthodox Jew or most radical Christian. It is these very lies against Islam that are creating a war of civilization. The antidote, the cure to this world dilemma is for people to TAKE control of creating their OWN world view by BEFRIENDING Muslims and peoples of all religions and colors the world over, by spending time with them, and understanding them.... NOT by taking the word of CNN, Fox News, Homer Simpson, Seinfeld, or Borat as Holy! Take the middleman OUT of your process in developing your world view. Take CONTROL of your decision-making. Turn off Corporate Media! Turn on Citizen Media! When you've got people spending money (on ads) to convince you to buy something, you KNOW that that thing can't possibly be good for you, because if it was, its utility would have spread by word-of-mouth... Only your body tells you what you really need. Hence, all advertised goods (the very reason why corporate media exists) is really to your detriment if you buy. Yeah, I know, Shahan. It is sad and unfortunate. But o well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 In a society in which you live, do you think a person is allowed to choose to be muslim or not? The answer is: yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 ... Yes, there is no freedom in manipulating Islam. ... point about the Hijab being a choice! That is exactly the point. You are both saying there is no freedom in manipulating Islam and you are also saying things like "hijab is a choice". Well that is NOT what you mean. You mean Islam is a choice (not the Hijab). The Hijab goes with the Islam. You should be more careful about how you present your thought Sassun. Because it often seems like you are trying to glorify certain aspects of Islam. There is NO choice with Islam. (the same goes with Christianity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 How the hell would you know? I have had (and still have) MANY great muslim friends. I have many great jewish friends. I have had Russian jewish friends. I have good Iranian friends. Stop your childish assumptions. Shahan, consider this a warning. If you keep repeating the same kinds of posts over and over, I will start to edit/delete them. You say the same thing once, twice, ten times great. But after that, it is not posting, it is spamming. And spamming is NOT tolerated on this forum. Your racism towards Islam won't be tolerated in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 The answer is: yes. Excellent. You know I love the answer The good thing is, you just separated church from state which means there is hope for the two of us getting along. Now I'm going to stop posting so much in there threads for a few hours because I have been running my mouth too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Your racism towards Islam won't be tolerated in this forum. How about my racism towards stupid posts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 That is exactly the point. You are both saying there is no freedom in manipulating Islam and you are also saying things like "hijab is a choice". Well that is NOT what you mean. You mean Islam is a choice (not the Hijab). The Hijab goes with the Islam. You should be more careful about how you present your thought Sassun. Because it often seems like you are trying to glorify certain aspects of Islam. There is NO choice with Islam. (the same goes with Christianity). Hijab is a choice - an absolute choice. Women are free to wear or not to the wear the Hijab. That it will have consequences in terms of people's opinion towards them is anothr issue altogethr. I already stated from the onset that my view of religion , and indeed Islam's vieww also, is not one of a buffet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Shahan & Sipan calm down. No need to get into a fight because of Islam. Then we'll have all sorts of people coming and accusing me of spreading disunity among Armenian ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Excellent. You know I love the answer The good thing is, you just separated church from state which means there is hope for the two of us getting along. Now I'm going to stop posting so much in there threads for a few hours because I have been running my mouth too much Welll if you had read my posts carefully you would have seen that i am not arguing against the idea of secularism , but against the way it has been put into practice . Western secularism is not about secularism. At all. There is nothing wrong in admitting mistakes that your fellow people have done (however great you may think your constitution is ) , because if you keep denying then how can you fix the system and make it truly secular ? Btw , you said you already knew the answer , so I presume you thought it was a yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 It is not about Islam Sassun. He has said the same thing many many times now accusing me (and others) of being brainwashed by CNN and Fox news (whatever that means) and here again making grand claims of none of us who are against Islam never having had a muslim friend etc ... come on now that is VERY stupid (once twice is ok we all make stupid posts here and there but he is doing it in almost every post he makes). By the way Sassun I will repeat it again that I have had and still have many great muslim friends. I have no doubt that there are a lot of great people who happen to be muslim. My main gripe is with the Religion itself (the same with Christianity). We have had exactly similar kinds of discussions in the Christianity threads (it doesn't mean I have been brainwashed by Al Jazeerah either just because I don't like Bible thumpers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 It is not about being true or untrue. There are many disagreements among Shiites also on a number of issues, including the issue of the Wilayat al Faqih! Well, for a religion to be so vague and inconsistent that even its followers have to disagree so often, then I'd say that's a pretty messed up religion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Well, for a religion to be so vague and inconsistent that even its followers have to disagree so often, then I'd say that's a pretty messed up religion! Sure ,if that will make you feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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