Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 (edited) so what is the bottom line what are you trying to say ? Domino , bring me a religious authority / cleric site . the rest is not reliable for me . Edited June 13, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 so what is the bottom line what are you trying to say ? Domino , bring me a religious authority / cleric site . the rest is not reliable for me . http://www.understanding-islam.com/related...icle&aid=14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 so what is the bottom line what are you trying to say ? I'm saying that inheritance should be divided equally amongst the children and one shouldn't be favoured over the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I'm saying that inheritance should be divided equally amongst the children and one shouldn't be favoured over the other. Well that is your view and i respect that. so how did we get into this discussion ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Oh for goodness sake Domino Maryam Namazie ???? You mean THE Maryam Namazie ??? th eone who cheers for the council of "ex-Muslims"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 why would it bother me ? So you think it's ok for women to be asked to remove their hijab for their photo ID's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 So you think it's ok for women to be asked to remove their hijab for their photo ID's? what does hijab have to do with photo ID ? hijab is not niqab... and it's ok for women to lift the niqab to show their face. what is the big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 ... and it's ok for women to lift the niqab to show their face. what is the big deal. I don't know ... that's why I ask. You tell me why this is causing anger in the muslim community. And how about this? Mr. Sasun, if it's not a big deal, then maybe you can enlighten me about what is the big deal about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Morality is not dependent of a god. Morality is what makes god a paradox. Domino, that's an awesome observation! Completely agree! I was just skimming through this new posts. I can't believe you all wrote so much today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Your wife Hijab is against my personal values!!! I consider men and women as equal? Understand? I have no problem that your wife ear the Hijab, she can even wear it on the street, this is how tolerant I am. But in schools, in hospitals,(beside hospital buildings), on government buildings of any sorts, which are to the collectivity, I don't want to see your wife hijab, those vuildings are as much to your wife as mine, and her system of values contradicts mine. And since those buildings are as much mine as hers, the only solution is that she does not wear her hijab and I do not come with something against her values. We lose a personal freedom, but we acquire a collective one. A rule which is equal for everyone. Common sense? Sure. Again, agree 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 (edited) Excuse me ? My wife is just as attached to her beliefs that wearing the Hijab is a MUST... And that's not a case of being brain-washed? No woman - if she is educated and fully understands human rights - will agree that wearing the Hijab is a MUST. Then again, no woman or man - fully educated and understanding of human rights - ever agrees to organized religion. Edited June 13, 2007 by anoushik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 There is no 180 degrees change please don't say things for the sake of saying. My rights ends when it infringes on someone elses rights. You have no right to have azan audible for others who don't want it simple as that, this also applies to other religions. Everybody is free to practise whatever religion they want as long they all follow the rules of the municipality that they live in. You want change you get elected to the council and change it if you get the majority votes. It would be considered a nuisance under the common law, and rightly dealt as such. Hell, it might even be considered a public nuisance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Let's not forget that under the Ottoman rule, people who were not Musulmans were confined to "dhimmi" status and slapped with the jizya, just because they disagreed on what they believed. You would think that Muslims in this age would not want to reinstitute such wizardry, but no! There was that one Muslim, Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, in Britain, who in 2002 stated that even though there was no caliphate it did not mean Muslims could kill unbelievers simply by virtue of being unbelievers, without offering them the choice of being Muslims or subjects of Muslims. When Muslims speak of Islam not spreading by force, what is forcing an exhorbitant tax upon people thereby forcing them to convert to Islam to avoid it, but another way of using force albeit not directly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I don't know ... that's why I ask. You tell me why this is causing anger in the muslim community. And how about this? Mr. Sasun, if it's not a big deal, then maybe you can enlighten me about what is the big deal about this? UMM, YES, exactly. The NIQAB. It is stupid, yes. What is your point ? The overwhelming majority of Muslim women do not wear the Niqab anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Let's not forget that under the Ottoman rule, people who were not Musulmans were confined to "dhimmi" status and slapped with the jizya, just because they disagreed on what they believed. You would think that Muslims in this age would not want to reinstitute such wizardry, but no! There was that one Muslim, Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, in Britain, who in 2002 stated that even though there was no caliphate it did not mean Muslims could kill unbelievers simply by virtue of being unbelievers, without offering them the choice of being Muslims or subjects of Muslims. When Muslims speak of Islam not spreading by force, what is forcing an exhorbitant tax upon people thereby forcing them to convert to Islam to avoid it, but another way of using force albeit not directly? This post shows the extent of your ignorance of Islam. Perhaps your attmpt to tie this issue to Ottoman Turkey shows your desperate need to sell/market your argument. the so-called "dhimmi" argument has been debunked in the othr thread. You might want to check it out. Or maybe not, as that will not suit your ego too well. The taxes that were imposed in the Ottoman empire have little to do with the so-called "dhimmi" status, and in fact are far less than the taxes that Muslims are expected to and do pay . "forcing them to convert Islam to avoid it" my ***!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 And that's not a case of being brain-washed? No woman - if she is educated and fully understands human rights - will agree that wearing the Hijab is a MUST. Then again, no woman or man - fully educated and understanding of human rights - ever agrees to organized religion. How is it a case of being brainwashed ? Wearing the Hijab is a woman's choice and her right. Now if you do not like this and wish to advance all sorts of arguments about brainwashing, oppression of women, etc., about Islam that is your problem. But unless you prove to me how/where the fine line between free choice/conviction and brainwashing is drawn , your point is null & void and just another tantrum that yet another Islamophobe is throwing , in the name of so-called animosity towards "organized religion" , while identifying as a "Christian" at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Wearing the Hijab is a woman's choice and her right. Not in Iran. It is only in your wonderful version of "Islam" that it is a "choice". But as I have said MANY times, it seems your version of Islam is not as Universal as you would like to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Not in Iran. It is only in your wonderful version of "Islam" that it is a "choice". But as I have said MANY times, it seems your version of Islam is not as Universal as you would like to believe. What does Iran have to do with this ? Iran is not the spokesperson for Islam. Judging Islam based on actions of Muslims shows the bankruptcy of the case against it. If you want to judge the merits and value of something, you judge it based on a reading/understanding of that thing rather than an observation of how it has been implemented by this or that person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Sassun, answer this direct question: Are you saying the version of Islam practiced in Iran is not true Islam? I thought they were Shiites just like you. Are you saying your interpretation of Islam is the correct one and what they are doing in Iran is wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Sassun, you are confusing the heck out of everyone because you never answer anything directly. We ask you what you believe and you say Islam. We ask you well how come Muslims force people to wear Hijab (in places like Iran) and you say what does that have to do with anything. We ask you why muslims in places like Iran consider non muslims infidels and you say that's not how it is. Well, how is it? Why don't you act like a man and say what you believe instead of avoiding the difficult questions and pretending to believe some sort of super Islam where there is no evidence of such a thing practiced ANYWHERE in real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Judging Islam based on actions of Muslims shows the bankruptcy of the case against it. Isn't that the ultimate test? The actions of believers of a certain religion? I think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 (edited) Sassun, answer this direct question: Are you saying the version of Islam practiced in Iran is not true Islam? I thought they were Shiites just like you. Are you saying your interpretation of Islam is the correct one and what they are doing in Iran is wrong? It is not about being true or untrue. There are many disagreements among Shiites also on a number of issues, including the issue of the Wilayat al Faqih! For example, Leb. Shiite cleric Ayatollah Sayyed Mohammed Hossein Fadlallah has argued , based on religious texts, against it. Anyone who practices compulsion is not abiding by the fundamental teachings of Islam , be he a Sunni or a Shiite. The fact that the acts of some fanatics are always listed to bash Islam says enough about the failure of the west to find anything wrong with Islam itself, thus sticking to its implementation by self-professed Muslims is the norm. btw , the so-called "hijab" that Iranians are 'forced' to wear , they are better off not wearing it at all , where half the hair shows , what is the point ? and for some it has become a silly fashion thing. Disgusting. Edited June 13, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 What is the problem with calling someone an unbeliever ? If you truly are sure that you are in the right , then why would you be offended by this term, which is a mere descriptive term ? On the contrary shouldn't you be proud of it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 ... On the contrary shouldn't you be proud of it ? Yah but I much rather not be dead because of it. I know I know the many "disagreements" on Islam but you have to understand my distrust of your religion as some of the disagreements put me in a VERY bad predicament Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 this thread is about to pass "impassions of the day" thread, holly Muhammad, i mean cow, ops Sassun ok the hell with the pope too someone call our Sulamita!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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