Mischaracterization Of Nagorno-karabagh

[kakachik77]

US official's remarks not aimed at Artsax authorities, US diplomat says

 

Mediamax news agency

19 Jan 05

 

YEREVAN

 

The recent statement by US Assistant State Secretary for European and

Eurasian Affairs Elizabeth Jones had to do with Russia's policy and

was not intended to criticize the Nagornyy Artsax authorities.

 

This statement was made by the assistant to the US co-chairman of the

OSCE Minsk Group, (?Elizabeth Ruth), in a telephone conversation with

the permanent representative of the Nagornyy Artsax Republic in the

USA, Vardan Barsegyan, on 18 January, the press service of the

Nagornyy Artsax Republic told Mediamax today.

 

The Foreign Ministry's press service said that on 14 January The

Moscow Times newspaper published Elizabeth Jones's comments concerning

the role and interests of Russia in resolving conflicts in post-Soviet

republics.

 

"In those comments, Mrs Jones made ambiguous statements about Nagornyy

Artsax," the Foreign Ministry's press service said.

 

[Jones said: "It is in Russia's interests that Dniester, South

Ossetia, Abkhazia and Nagornyy Artsax are stable and incorrupt and

that the criminal separatist regimes ruling there are brought down."]

[kakachik77]

not sure if I am allowed to do this on Hyeforum...but you can state your concern against Elizabeth Jones' comments by visiting www.anca.org and by sending a WebFax, or you can make your own letter and send it to them. (besides being ethnic Armenian, I am not associated to ANCA if anybody has any problem with this).

[Armen]

This was realy strange. It came right after Armenia group left for Iraq. Considering the deepening militery cooperation between Armenia and US, I find the only answer in the well known BS of the State Department towards Armenia. But as the US State is never the top authority on the conduct American foreign policy (at least for a couple of decades already / consider the White House, National Security Council or the Pentagon) I think it is just some middle level interest in the State rather than a shift in US policy. However, it may well be a side signal for Kocharian to consider more pro-US moves.

[DominO123]

not sure if I am allowed to do this on Hyeforum...but you can state your concern against Elizabeth Jones' comments by visiting www.anca.org and by sending a WebFax, or you can make your own letter and send it to them. (besides being ethnic Armenian, I am not associated to ANCA if anybody has any problem with this).

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You are allowed to do this.

 

This board

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showforum=9

 

beside news serves as well for things like this. If you want, you can start a thread there with the relevent informations on what to do, or you can clarify in this thread about what exactly to do.

[kakachik77]

Thanks Domino, here are the steps

 

visit www.anca.org

 

(the Home page has a big headline already about this issue and a link to how to send a Free WebFax to your senator and representative, simply follow the steps and the fax will be sent and you will receive an email copy)

[Armen]

I KNOW WHAT CRIMINAL ELEMENTS ELIZABETH JONES SAID ABOUT AND I DO NOT

THINK THE MATTER CONCERNED NAGORNY Artsax: JOHN EVANS

 

YEREVAN, JANUARY 21. ARMINFO. "I know what criminal elements US

Assistant Secretary of the State Elizabeth Jones had said about and I

don't think that the matter concerned Nagorny Artsax."

U.S. Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to Armenia John

Evans stated in the interview to TV company Armenia, commenting on the

recent statements of Elizabeth Jones.

 

According to him, the U.S policy concerning the process of peaceful

settlement of the Artsax conflict remains unchanged. The United

States provide assistance both to Yerevan and Baku in reaching

resolution to the conflict, which is said in the statement of the

U.S. Embassy this week. The United States is the good partner of

Armenia and what is said does not require proves. As regards the

statements of U.S. Assistant Secretary of the State Elizabeth Jones,

"I have known her for almost 30 years as a professional diplomat and

when I first read the information about its statements, I thought

immediately - something is wrong here", John Evans stressed.

 

He thinks that the statements of Elizabeth Jones concerning criminal

elements did not concern Nagorny Artsax. Generally, she had an

unofficial talk with journalists during his vide news conference and

meant then that the USA and Russia must cooperate closely in the issue

of settlement of the conflicts in Abkhazia, Transdnesitria, Nagorny

Artsax. And she had noted there are extremist criminal elements here

in the districts bordering with Russia. "I know the geography and I

don't think that the matter concerned Nagorny Artsax - we know what

districts and elements she meant", the American diplomat said.

 

He noted also that the USA has given humanitarian aid to Nagorny

Artsax for a long time. This assistance is also provided by the USA

budget this year, at that the USA is one of the two countries of the

world which provides such an aid to Nagorny Artsax. Those, who

wrongly comment on the statements of Elizabeth Jones, tries to damage

the Armenian-American relations, which are at not bad level, and it is

very important, John Evans said.

[Armen]

PanArmenians News

Jan 22 2005

 

ELIZABETH JONES IS SORRY

 

 

22.01.2005 15:47

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ As reported by Haylur information program of the

Public TV Company of Armenia, in a telephone conversation with

Armenian Foreign Minister V. Oskanian US Assistant Secretary of State

E. Jones stated she was sorry her words that actually did not refer

to Nagorno Artsax were negatively responded by the Armenian

society.

[gamavor]

Good! May God forgive her, because we Armenians don't!

[Armen]

Yes, but the whole thing was very strange.

[Siamanto]

Associated Press Worldstream

January 20, 2005 Thursday

 

U.S. official's statement angers Armenians

 

by AVET DEMOURIAN; Associated Press Writer

 

YEREVAN, Armenia

 

 

A statement by a U.S. State Department official about unrecognized

regimes in the former Soviet Union has sparked an uproar in Armenia,

with groups ranging from students to scientists taking offense over a

comment involving the disputed Nagorno-Artsax region.

 

Armenians picked up on comments that Elizabeth Jones, assistant

secretary of state for Europe and Eurasia, made last week in a video

link with journalists in Moscow, Bratislava and Rome ahead of a

meeting next month with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Slovakia.

 

Jones said it is in Russia's interests for the self-proclaimed

republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia in Georgia, Trans-Dniester in

Moldova, and Nagorno-Artsax in Azerbaijan "to be stable, for

corruption to end there, for criminal secessionists who rule there to

be removed," according to the English-language Moscow Times

newspaper.

 

Nagorno-Artsax is a mostly ethnic Armenian enclave that has been

under ethnic Armenian control since a deadly six-year war against

Azerbaijani forces that ended in 1994 with a cease-fire, but without

a political settlement. Its self-proclaimed government is backed by

Armenia but is not internationally recognized.

 

Armenian media lashed out at Jones, and leaders of the small Caucasus

Mountain nation's Academy of Sciences discussed it Wednesday, with

one scholar, Nikolai Oganesian, calling it "prevocational" and

another, Konstantin Karagezian, calling it "amoral."

 

On Tuesday, several hundred students marched to the U.S. Embassy in

Yerevan, the capital, and handed over a declaration saying it was

"unacceptable." Neither Armenia's government nor the leadership of

Nagorno-Artsax has reacted publicly, however.

 

The U.S. Embassy issued a statement Tuesday reiterating that the

United States "does not recognize Nagorno-Artsax as an independent

country," does not recognize its leadership, and supports the

territorial integrity of Azerbaijan.

 

It said the United States "holds that the future status of

Nagorno-Artsax is a matter of negotiation between the parties in

the Minsk Group process," in which mediators led by the United

States, France and Russia are working with Azerbaijan and Armenia to

foster a peaceful settlement. Nagorno-Artsax's leadership is not

involved.

 

The statement said Jones' comment "was directed at the need for the

U.S. and Russia to work together to resolve the conflicts and advance

transparency and rule of law in the conflict areas. We recognize that

the circumstances of each conflict are unique."

 

 

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg101366.html

[Sasun]

U.S. Official ‘Apologizes’ For Artsax Remark

 

www.armenialiberty.org

By Emil Danielyan

 

Elizabeth Jones, the outgoing U.S. assistant secretary of state, has apologized to Armenia for referring to Nagorno-Artsax’s ethnic Armenian leadership as “criminal secessionists,” Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian said over the weekend.

 

Speaking on Armenian state television, Oskanian revealed that Jones telephoned him late on Friday and said, “I assure you that I did not and could not mean Nagorno-Artsax by using the term criminal separatists. I apologize for that.”

 

“I think we have to calm down after this phone call and consider the issue to be closed, ” Oskanian said. “If we give it a closer look, we can see that it could not have been otherwise.”

 

“I welcome and appreciate the fact that Jones had the courage to apologize for it,” he added.

 

Jones, who is resigning along with Secretary of State Colin Powell later this month, has faced a storm of criticism and condemnations in Armenia since the publication of details of her January 13 video conference with Russian journalists that touched upon Russia’s role in the resolution of ethnic disputes in the former Soviet Union. “It is in Russia's interest for these areas -- whether it is Transdnestr, Abkhazia, South Ossetia or Nagorno-Artsax -- to be stable, for corruption to end there, for criminal secessionists who rule there to be removed,” she said, according to “The Moscow Times” daily.

 

The Armenian government did not officially react to the remark, but appears to have been behind the ensued uproar ranging from a student demonstration outside the U.S. embassy in Yerevan to statements of condemnation issued by pro-government politicians, academics and even doctors.

 

Oskanian defended the protests heavily publicized by TV channels controlled by the Armenian authorities. “I was positively surprised at all this and naturally, this is the way it should be,” he said.

 

The U.S. mission in Yerevan initially declined to comment on Jones’s remark, stressing in a statement that Washington “does not recognize Nagorno-Artsax as an independent country.” But Ambassador John Evans told the private Armenia TV station later in the week that he thinks Jones’s description of ex-Soviet breakaway regions did not apply to Artsax.

 

The U.S. has regularly negotiated with the leadership of the unrecognized Nagorno-Artsax Republic (NKR) over the past decade within the framework of the OSCE’s Minsk Group which it co-chairs together with France and Russia. In addition, the U.S. Congress has allocated millions of dollars worth of direct humanitarian assistance to the Armenian-populated territory despite Azerbaijani protests.

 

Jones was also condemned by the Armenian National Committee of America(ANCA), one of the influential lobbying groups on Capitol Hill. “We condemn her statements as counter to the long-standing U.S. policy of helping the parties reach a negotiated settlement, and call on the Administration to begin repairing this damage by immediately and clearly renouncing these patently unfair and demonstrably inaccurate remarks,” the ANCA chairman, Ken Hachikian, said in a statement. “”

 

Not surprisingly, Azerbaijani reaction to the controversy was diametrically opposite. “I think Mrs Jones's statement was objective and reflected the reality,” Deputy Foreign Minister Araz Azimov told the ANS television in Baku on Saturday. “She said nothing that did not reflect the official position of the USA because the USA has repeatedly stated its recognition of Azerbaijan's territorial integrity.”

 

Jones’s statement prompted far-reaching and conflicting speculations in the Armenian media about U.S. policy in the region. Vox Populi, a private polling organization, interviewed more than a hundred Armenian politicians, government officials, journalists and intellectuals on the issue last week. It said 85 percent of them believe that the statement reflected the U.S. government’s position on the Artsax dispute.

[Armen]

When was the last time a US official appologised for something?

[Sasun]

When was the last time a US official appologised for something? 

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Armen jan, never. This is not a US official, but an ex-US official. I am not buying the apology as a sincere expression that the US is treating us in a fair manner.

[Armen]

Armen jan, never. This is not a US official, but an ex-US official. I am not buying the apology as a sincere expression that the US is treating us in a fair manner.

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As one of my friends pointed out, how is it that US government provides governmental aid (if I am not mistaken US12 mln directly yo Karabagh) to a entity it thinks is a "criminal". Isen't it absurdity?

[Arvestaked]

I glanced at this thread as well as the one discussing the United States' interest in agression toward Iran which mentioned the stance it would take on Kharabagh. I may be missing something but the renouncing of the words "criminal separatist" and the potential of U.S. forcing Kharapagh over to the Azeris seem to be conflicted.

[Armen]

I glanced at this thread as well as the one discussing the United States' interest in agression toward Iran which mentioned the stance it would take on Kharabagh. I may be missing something but the renouncing of the words "criminal separatist" and the potential of U.S. forcing Kharapagh over to the Azeris seem to be conflicted.

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If you mean the last articel in the Iran thread, it come from "Haykakan Zhamanak", HHSH (ANM) controlled paper, which is not too objective towards the current Armenian administration. To prove that LTP was true in 1997 to agree on compromising they write pretty much everything that come to their mind.

[Arvestaked]

If you mean the last articel in the Iran thread, it come from "Haykakan Zhamanak", HHSH (ANM) controlled paper, which is not too objective towards the current Armenian administration. To prove that LTP was true in 1997 to agree on compromising they write pretty much everything that come to their mind.

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So, I see then that you posted the article because it was on topic and not because it is something you believe to be true. Then tell me, assuming that the publication is bias, what there is to be gained from writing such an article in terms of stirring the nationalists? They are not offering a solution or a cause for agression but merely stating a potential and insurmountable scenario. If you are suggesting that they are over dramatizing for the sake of selling units or filling empty layout space, well that is something I cannot really contest.

[Armen]

So, I see then that you posted the article because it was on topic and not because it is something you believe to be true. Then tell me, assuming that the publication is bias, what there is to be gained from writing such an article in terms of stirring the nationalists? They are not offering a solution or a cause for agression but merely stating a potential and insurmountable scenario. If you are suggesting that they are over dramatizing for the sake of selling units or filling empty layout space, well that is something I cannot really contest.

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Yes, I view the article and the consequent ANM general view of possible scenarios in the region more like a political commodity rather than an objective analysis. Currently ANM is searching for the ways to return to the political scene and the difficult situation arround Karabagh issue seems to be a good point to capitalize on. Whatever the scenarios are, Armenia's government is going to find itself in a period where tough decisions might be needed. The logic of regional developments leads to that as far as I can see. However, Haykakan Zhamanak is dismissing the increasing level of cooperation , especially military, between Armenia and the US. I don't think the possible direction of developments is that clear as they wish to present.

 

What they gain is that they want to regain power by coming beck into the scene at the "right" moment. Although I do not see the current administration as effective I think Armenia better face the region change in stability rather than combined with domestic unrest. Furthermore, teh current administration has demonstrated that it can cooperate with the US even if other forces are against.

[gamavor]

People care less and less what Americans and in particular the American Government think and say! Life is beautiful!

[DominO123]

When was the last time a US official appologised for something? 

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I don't think she had the choice, her statment was against democracy, calling a democratically elected government "criminal."

[Armen]

I don't think she had the choice, her statment was against democracy, calling a democratically elected government "criminal."

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US always has a choice. Democracy is not a permanent US value. It is applied selectively.

[Nakharar]

I don't think she had the choice, her statment was against democracy, calling a democratically elected government "criminal."

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Are democratically elected governments immune to that? There is a deficiency of transparency and accountability if that is the case.

[DominO123]

US always has a choice. Democracy is not a permanent US value. It is applied selectively.

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True but iin this cases it is contradictory with the US global position... devide, instore democracy and rule.

 

Artsakh is all the above, in this case, it was a compleat ignorant statment, from someone that may be considered insignificant. So the appology followed.

[DominO123]

Are democratically elected governments immune to that? There is a deficiency of transparency and accountability if that is the case.

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I don't see the relevency of your post with mine. Unlighten me.

[Armen]

True but iin this cases it is contradictory with the US global position... devide, instore democracy and rule.

 

Artsakh is all the above, in this case,  it was a compleat ignorant statment, from someone that may be considered insignificant.  So the appology followed.

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Saying something on purpose and appologising is not that rare in politics.