Small Ararat spoiler derived from trailer

[wh00t]

Watch the trailer at apple.com . Right at the beginning of the part where they show Arshile Gorky, the viewer catches a glipse of "The Artist and his Mother". Pause the trailer at this second. You can see that the mother's hands are there!

 

I assume the film contains a scene where he violently erases the hands.

[MJ]

Sorry for the double post.

 

[ November 16, 2002, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: MJ ]

[MJ]

No, not violently. But very disturbed. It symbolizes unfinished "business."

 

I just came from the Movie Theater. Saw "Ararat."

 

Most of Armenians expected to see some monumental historic drama "destroying the Turks." I think most of the people where very displeased and disappointed. I also found that the message of the film had not come across to most of Armenians that I spoke to. In fact, the film, in my view, is a strong message to Armenians and is directed at the Armenian audience.

 

The message of the film is that "All this is so meaningless."

 

It is a philosophical journey into the domain of the understanding of the emptiness of the entire Armenian drama beyond the symbolism and beyond the release of the trapped souls into freedom.

 

If you happen to see the movie, just pay special attention to the episode of the Canadian customs officer interrogating Raffi and Raffi's contemplation with shootings of Ani at the background.

 

I think Egoyan, Aznavour, and others have done a pretty interesting job on raising a serious question in the public domain about The Meaning or, perhaps, its absence.

 

P.S. Needless to say that the movie is very much tangeled in symbolism.

 

[ November 16, 2002, 05:01 AM: Message edited by: MJ ]

[nairi]

If this is really true, then why are the Turks making such a big deal out of it?

 

I will, IF the movie ever comes out here...

 

Who else saw it? And what did you think?

 

Nairi

[MJ]

[qb]

 

Oops.. I didn't realize that... Your observations are, as aways, penetrating to the bone...

[nairi]

I wasn't attacking you, khelok. I was questioning Egoyan. Oh well...

[wh00t]

Actually, nairi, I don't think the Turks are making a "big deal out of it" at all. It is my personal opinion that Turkey knew that a mainstream film would eventually be made on the suject (it almost happened in he 1930s), and are very happy that Egoyan was the one to finally do it. Though a critic's darling and cinephile's delight, he is not very widely known outside the movie buff circle. And, perhaps more importantly, Egoyan is incapable of making the historical drama that Armenians expect. Turks knows this. While there is the necessary occaisional fuss every now and then, whining they don't agree with some of the movie's content, they are actually rejoicing that the inevitable Genocide film comes in the form of ARARAT.

 

I cringe at the thought of uninformed Armenians going in to see ARARAT as much as Turks smile upon every negative review ARARAT receives.

 

[ November 16, 2002, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: wh00t ]

[MJ]

Oh, yeah... That stupid Egoyan...

[nairi]

Whoot jan, I would like to agree with you, however I am very pessimistic about Turks reconciling with Armenians' need to remember very soon. Ararat is merely the beginning of a long series of AG movies. If Egoyan didn't do it well, surely someone else will. I just can't see the present Turkish mentality accepting AG movies without at least trying to counter them -- potentially by making their own.

 

MJ jan, what is it that Egoyan finds so meaningless? The actual Genocide? Its denial by the Turks? The Armenian struggle for recognition? Making movies about all this? What? Perhaps we can finally have a mature discussion once you answer this question.

[MJ]

Mature discussions are held between mature people.

 

I think, in his movie, Egoyan found your type of activism being meaningless and leading only to the the Stan of Emptiness and to cycles of draining intellectual masturbation with no result.

 

Additionally, nothing that he said in his movie was new to this Forum. You may be well advised just to take your time and to read it from the day of its inception.

[nairi]

[nairi]

Don't worry. He has good reason.

 

This is interesting though, because in most, if not all of his interviews, Egoyan seems to want to contribute to the recognition of the Armenian Genocide with Ararat. He just didn't want to make it a "subjective" movie. Plus, he's a non-commercial film-maker: that says enough. I guess I shouldn't comment until I've seen it...

[MJ]

Thoth,

 

The absurdity of your injection is quite annoying. The noise of your violin never stops. It can drive anyone out of patience. There are many members in this forum who speak only when they have something to say. Why wouldn't you follow their example so that to find out that none would be nasty to you in such case?

 

And you haven’t seen me being Academic yet, and, again, I am against turning this place to Vanity Fair or to Garage Sale of recycled crap. Don't you get tired of it? How many years can you go repeating the same unqualified nonsense?

 

Just remember that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Therefore respect your word, and others would do it too.

 

P.S. BTW, Turkish denial is about the Turks. Do you have anything to say about Armenians?

[Guest Fadi]

"Ararat will have to get past these unfortunate rites of initial

passage to be judged not for what it isn't but what it is, which

is a pertinent powerfully intelligent account of the morality

of making history."

 

Toronto Star

Nov 15, 2002

GEOFF PEVERE

[THOTH]

MJ -

 

I appreciate your insightful review of Ararat and though I understand the value of the message to Armenians (if your interpretation is correct) - I question if this is indeed the most needed message (from this medium) at this time (particualry considering that its unlikely that most will understand and/or apply it anyway). Like you - I too see fault with the standard (institutional) Armenian approach towards the Genocide - however I still (by far) see the Turkish denial and non-recognition as the more supreme problem that must be addressed and felt that this venue was the perfect one to bring it to the head. How lucky we were for such an oppurtunity I thought. Alas - perhaps - as I have feared - it is not to be...however I guess we must ride this one out and see what comes...I hope we don't have to look back and see this as a missed oppurtunity for Armenians.

 

I must also add however that I don't appreciate your attitudes expressed towards other forum members. From what I have witnessed recently I can only conclude that your ideal Hye forum would entail just you posting with the rest of us just basking in your eternal wisdom. This is not the Hye Academic forum - it is meant to be a forum that reflects the worldwide community of Armenians. I know that you often have a very good points/observations to make - and I very often agree with what you are saying - however the manner in which you have primarily posted of late, is to me, very distasteful and unecessary. I know that you are likely frustrated sometimes that others do not live up to your standards and do not seem to understand the points you sometimes are making - and that you may be tired of repetition and such - but please - you must be more patient sometimes or just let it pass. And I ask you to refrain from being unecssarily nasty. Do you really think this forum would be made better to drive out everyone but yourself and one or two others that you find acceptable? I certainly don't. I definatly do not agree with everyone's views here - but except for a few exceptional cases - I do not condone silencing or driving away anyone. In effect - this is what you are doing IMO. And in particular I cannot understand your negativity towards Nairi.

[nairi]

Domino, did you see it? If so, what did you think?

[Sip]

All I know is that it better be a damn good movie cause I've been going around the net recently and giving it the highest ratings the different sites. Somehow, I couldn't understand why so many gave it 0's in their ratings so I figured my "biased" rating would at least act as a balancing force against those.

 

Hopefully I'll get to see it sometime this week.

[Guest Fadi]

Nairi, eveyone that saw it must let others see it in mass.

 

Like wh00t said, Egoyan has his style, and he has said that many could be decieved, you should not bases yourself on the judgement of others to make your conclusion, I would even say that you should not read any critic, just go and see the movie.

 

I said on Piggeti's forum I think a year ago, or near a year ago, that Egoyan movie is not about the genocide, even if the genocide is the center inspiration, I like Egoyan types of movies, and I believe that he accomplished much the impression that the genocide has in real life, mixing everything together, etc...

 

Nothing to add, few days are left before the public release, just don;t listen to anyone, don't even ask to others how they found the movie, its not the kind of movie(Egoyans movie never were) that you will have a valid answer, the valid answer is when you will go and see the movie yourself, and judge it like the review of the Toronto Star said, on what the movie is all about, and not on what it should have been.

 

[ November 17, 2002, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: Domino ]

[nairi]

Domino, you're confusing me: I shouldn't read other people's reviews, but I should keep the Toronto Star in mind?

 

Domino jan, this is not the first time I read or listen to other people's opinions before watching a movie or reading a book. I think I know myself better than that to switch off all opinions before entering a theatre or library. Also, I'm aware of Egoyan's style and I'm a big fan of film house movies (you're making me explain myself...). I'm wondering though: are you guys not interested in discussing it?

 

Btw, Ararat may not come out here for another six months, IF we're lucky. I might have to go to France to watch it (dubbed, of course!!)...

[Guest Fadi]

Nairi, I have not posted the Toronto Star review of the movie. The only thing I posted was this.

 

"Ararat will have to get past these unfortunate rites of initial

passage to be judged not for what it isn't but what it is, which

is a pertinent powerfully intelligent account of the morality

of making history."

 

The reason why I said to you you should not listen to the critics, is because the majority of them talk about what the film should have been, rather then what it is, and the Toronto Star quote I posted was about this. If Egoyan movie was to be released without all this pre-release announcement and pressures etc... if it was to be presented as an authored movie without all this pre-release exagerated announcement, and if the persons watching the movie would have no idea of the Armenian genocide, or never heard of it, they will most probably have a complet different view of the "success" of the film.

 

Untill there is no such critic about what the film is about, those critics don't worth to be read. Thats all.

[nairi]

I read a few already,but I already "know" what the film is about. I want to know what you thought of it. Did you like it? Was it one of Egoyan's better films or worse? How do you feel about how he handled the AG? And what do you think his "message" was? That sort of stuff.

[MJ]

I was reading a Magazine today, and came across the following add:

 

"Uncover the shocking secrets of the movie they don’t want you to see. "

 

"A pertinent, powerfully intelligent film.

Geoffe Pevere, Toronto Star"

 

"Dense and tightly structured.

A.O. Scott, The New York Times"

 

"An emotionally penetrating movie!

Desson Howe, Washington Post"

 

"From Oscar -Nominated Director Atom Egoyan comes the most controversial film of the year

 

ARARAT

...is where it all happened."

[wh00t]

Associated Press

 

Director Atom Egoyan's "Ararat" opened strongly in limited release, taking in $162,000 at five theaters for an impressive $32,400 average.

 

"Ararat" centers on an ensemble of contemporary characters to examine the legacy of Egoyan's Armenian heritage and the dispute over whether Turks were responsible for genocide against Armenians during World War I. Armenians say 1.5 million of their people were killed, but Turkey says the number is inflated and that Armenians were killed or displaced as the Ottoman Empire tried to quell civil unrest.

[MosJan]

Movie Ararat

I was looking forward to see this movie for close to a year now.

Will it has happen 2 days a go.

 

Will my good friends – I will say up for Ararat – it’s a will balanced movie, it’s a movie that might awaken so many harts, it’s a step forward - something we have been dreaming for so long.

 

20 years a go if we war to tale our Armenian that a movie will be on cinemas on Armenian Genocide, it would have been a dream for them. Just like it was for Gurgen Yanikyan, a person who has devoted him self and his life savings to make a move on Armenian question, on the end he has chosen a different way to teal his story. Today we have Ararat , A small movie that has so-much to say.

I might not understand much. Maybe I do not qualify to be the judge, but I love the movie so have 250 more in the cinemas that have stud up for over 5minnets and war applauding.

 

It’s an small step forward, and just like always we Armenian in this case to need to go one step at the time.

 

Iysor Ararat var@ Masis / Kars@ Van@ Ardahan

 

Movses

 

[ November 18, 2002, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: MosJan ]

[Azat]

I just wrote my opinion and when I tried to post it, I got and error and everything was gone when I hit the back button.

 

------

 

in Short

 

I saw this movie 3 days ago and I am still thinking about it. I felt that it was too complex and am actually planning to go and see it one more time as it is somewhat murky in my head.

 

The movie was very complex and I am afraid that this is not the movie that most Armenians were expecting. Actually few senior citizens in the theatre were a sleep because this was not the Genocide that their parents had told them about. This is not te Shindler's List to be able to earn millions and be seen my millions and it is not the Greek Wedding to draw in the crowds to make them aware of the genocide. This is a movie by an Armenian for mostly Armenians.

 

Egoyan did a okay job trying to relate all the different things that were going on in the movie. I thought he could have made a much more appealing and simple movie with just the part in the Airport, just talking about the history and memories. I also liked the parts about the Gorky(someone someday should do a whole movie about the man who single-handed revolutionized the art world in the US and the world in general with his abstract-surrealist school of art). I did not think that Arsine and Raffi were good in the film. Neither one had any feelings. Aznavour and Bogosian were okay. I wish Egoyan had a better casting. I did not like the drug confiscation part(why include that part in the film, what value did it add) and the part of naming of Armenian freedom fighters as terrorists as terrorists today have a very negative connotation in the US these days.

 

Overall I like the movie, I think the movie is going to be liked by liked by the smart foreign crowd(the people who go to Artsy movies) and Armenians in general.