Anoushik Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Sometimes I fear that the relationship between me and my mom will turn up to be exactly like that of Monica and her mom in "Friends" and I told the same to my mom a couple of minutes ago. (I'm only mentioning "Friends" because that's what came to mind at that moment.) Only worse is that Monica was interested in cooking and had an obsession about cleaning, none of which interests me. Luckily, the difference between Monica's relationship with her mom and my relationship with my mom is that we have great things in common, such as similar taste in music, books, and art, and similar outlook on life in general. My mom is also very educated and well read, and I guess that's why I never thought that I'd have similar, annoying, hurtful, problems in my relationship with my mom as other daughters had with their moms All my life my mom has bragged to others how she never let me cook, clean, do the dishes, etc. because 1) she didn't want anything to happen to my hands (because of piano) and 2) she claimed that I'd have plenty of time to do those things once I got married. She wasn't lying. I've had a very comfortable life without doing any household chores and the priority for me has always been getting good grades and practicing the piano. But the past couple of years I notice that my mom has started to "yeres tal" (rub it in?) about the fact that I never did any chores. She does this by pretenting to joke innocently but it's getting really annoying. Also, whenever I do something nowadays, like make a pasta or salad, she always finds something wrong in them. My brother and my father have to always say positive things in my cooking and my father especially always defends what I do. The more these kinds of things happen the more discouraged I become about cooking something for my family, and the less I cook when no one is home yet, and the more my mom "jokes" when she comes home how I never want to do anything. I hate this completely. Am I being oversensitive? Has anyone experienced something similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Anoushik jan, I think you and I need to go out and drink and talk about our issues with our parents. you with your mom and I with my dad. I have to state that I know nothing about friends so I am still not to clear about your relationship. I also have to state that most likely you have a much better relationship with your mom than I do with my father. However my big issue is that in the last 6 months we have become very (I cant think of the word). We hardly even talk together outside of the essentials. I think you need to spend time with your mom and tell her that she is hurting you with those words and tell her how you feel and if she still goes on her way then it will be her loss if the relationship between you two gets really bad in the future. I am not sure if any of that made any sense. if not then please just ignore it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 (edited) Thanks Azat, that made sense. Why is there a problem between parents and adult children in the first place? Is it because the parents have no longer control over their children? Because they can't handle the fact that their children are grown adults now and are individuals just like them? What I notice is that my mom can immediately become visibly upset (really hurt) if I say something against her yet when she says something and I tell her that it hurt me she jokes that I'm too sensitive and I should get over it. What I tell her is not even close to her comments to me! But still it's only me who feels bad that I upset her and gently tell her that I didn't mean anything, yet she has never apologized to me. ... But at the end of the day I love my mom and I'm very happy that I have her, that person, as my mom instead of another individual. I just wish that she would realize when she is hurting me (Actually she doesn't only "yeres tal" that I've never cooked and cleaned in private but she does it when we have friends and guests, and always she has to add that because I've never cooked and cleaned "mat@ matin chi tvel" I can't do anything. And then to compensate she adds that in America one doesn't have to do anything because there are paper plates and frozen dinners! Can you imagine how hurtful and upsetting this is?) Edited December 29, 2004 by anoushik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 I can dear. You know what. they say those things when you are around to show that they are the boss, but when you are not around they all talk about how great you are. one thing you can do is jokingly comment that she has failed as a parent if she did not teach you those things. I dont know, my mom was never like that. my dad became like that over time. The other thing I can guarantee you is that when you leave the house they will MISS you dearly and will be SO much nicer to you I am sorry you are in that tough situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 one thing you can do is jokingly comment that she has failed as a parent if she did not teach you those things. style_images/master/snapback.png Wow, thanks, that's a great advice. I'm not sure I'll do it though I'm not used to embarrassing my parents in front of others (yet they have no problem doing that!). But if things get really bad I'll think about your advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 anoushik, ասա, խելոք մնա թե չէ կամուսնանամ, կգնամ... էլ էտենց բաներ չի ասի: եթե չհավատա, իմ նկարը ցույց տուր, ասա, սա էլ իմ բոյֆրենդն ա... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 anoushik, ասա, խելոք մնա թե չէ կամուսնանամ, կգնամ... էլ էտենց բաներ չի ասի: եթե չհավատա, իմ նկարը ցույց տուր, ասա, սա էլ իմ բոյֆրենդն ա... style_images/master/snapback.png Էդ էլ է լավ "advice"... Ամուսնանալ բառը մեր տանը է "ban" է արված: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Էդ էլ է լավ "advice"... Ամուսնանալ բառը մեր տանը է "ban" է արված: style_images/master/snapback.png եթե չօգնի, իմ նկարը ցույց տուր, ասա, խելոք մնացեք թե չէ իրա հետ կամուսնանամ, տնփեսա կբերեմ... էտի հաստատ կօգնի... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 (edited) հաստատ... Բա ու՞ր է նկարըտ։ Edit: "նկարըտ" should be "նկարտ", right? Sorry I'm still learning how to use the translit correctly Edited December 29, 2004 by anoushik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 As you know, there are no recepies and, at best, we can only stimulate your thinking: I think that you should find a solution that fits you: your habits, your values, your temper, your mother, family etc. Sometimes I fear that the relationship between me and my mom will turn up to be exactly like that of Monica and her mom in "Friends" and I told the same to my mom a couple of minutes ago. style_images/master/snapback.png Don't rush into comparisons. Often, we help a situation become reality, simply because we believe in the reality - or the possibility - of the situation! Don't freeze the picture and lock yourself into a "corner!" Different views and perspectives can help. I understand that it can be quite difficult to avoid a certain pattern when one is IN the situation! My mom is also very educated and well read, and I guess that's why I never thought that I'd have similar, annoying, hurtful, problems in my relationship with my mom as other daughters had with their moms style_images/master/snapback.png Keep in mind that intelligent and educated people are also human and are entitled to weaknesses! All my life my mom has bragged to others how she never let me cook, clean, do the dishes, etc. because 1) she didn't want anything to happen to my hands (because of piano) and 2) she claimed that I'd have plenty of time to do those things once I got married. She wasn't lying. I've had a very comfortable life without doing any household chores and the priority for me has always been getting good grades and practicing the piano. But the past couple of years I notice that my mom has started to "yeres tal" (rub it in?) about the fact that I never did any chores. style_images/master/snapback.png It may sound crazy or humorous, but maybe she thinks that you have already accomplished the first i.e. your musical education and are ready for the next step - i.e. marriage - and need to "prepare yourself...!!!" Of course, I'm not insinuating that a woman should - or should not - assume a certain role; I'm simply trying to see things from your mother's point of view! She does this by pretenting to joke innocently but it's getting really annoying. Also, whenever I do something nowadays, like make a pasta or salad, she always finds something wrong in them. My brother and my father have to always say positive things in my cooking and my father especially always defends what I do. The more these kinds of things happen the more discouraged I become about cooking something for my family, and the less I cook when no one is home yet, and the more my mom "jokes" when she comes home how I never want to do anything. I hate this completely. Am I being oversensitive? Has anyone experienced something similar? style_images/master/snapback.png You seem to be assuming a certain role and almost accepting her "game" - for lack of a better word. Try to step out of the situation - as much as humanly possible - to minimize the impact on your feelings and behavior. That will help you deal with it with more confidence. It helps to try different explanations, interpretations of the facts and her intentions! Why is there a problem between parents and adult children in the first place? Is it because the parents have no longer control over their children? Because they can't handle the fact that their children are grown adults now and are individuals just like them? What I notice is that my mom can immediately become visibly upset (really hurt) if I say something against her yet when she says something and I tell her that it hurt me she jokes that I'm too sensitive and I should get over it. What I tell her is not even close to her comments to me! But still it's only me who feels bad that I upset her and gently tell her that I didn't mean anything, yet she has never apologized to me. ... But at the end of the day I love my mom and I'm very happy that I have her, that person, as my mom instead of another individual. I just wish that she would realize when she is hurting me style_images/master/snapback.png That is somehow "normal" - maybe a bit "pathological" - when two individuals love each other; be it parents-children, friends or... (Actually she doesn't only "yeres tal" that I've never cooked and cleaned in private but she does it when we have friends and guests, and always she has to add that because I've never cooked and cleaned "mat@ matin chi tvel" I can't do anything. And then to compensate she adds that in America one doesn't have to do anything because there are paper plates and frozen dinners! Can you imagine how hurtful and upsetting this is?) style_images/master/snapback.png You may be oversensitive! But that's because you love her and feel a bit "betrayed," "deceived" or "abandoned" - again for lack of a better word! one thing you can do is jokingly comment that she has failed as a parent if she did not teach you those things. Wow, thanks, that's a great advice. I'm not sure I'll do it though I'm not used to embarrassing my parents in front of others (yet they have no problem doing that!). But if things get really bad I'll think about your advice style_images/master/snapback.png style_images/master/snapback.png I believe that humor is essential to handle any crisis, but be careful with the phrasing and how you say it! In fact, it is very likely that she may perceive your "joke" as: "You have been a bad mother and I blame you for my shortcomings." Considering all she did - according to you - for you, that may deeply hurt her feelings. I would be very careful! In such dynamics, perception often seem to be more "real" than Reality! Also, confronting is not always the shortest path! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Typical Armenian parental jealousy. Yes, I blame this on culture, because it is too widespread to call it an individual thing. On the one hand they push you to excel, and on the other once you do, they do anything to pull you back down. Never, ever try to exceed what your parents have done. If your mom is a professor, make sure you stay a student for the rest of your life. In fact, don't even go to school. They blame and want respect in return. Such is Armenian family life. Behead me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Typical Armenian parental jealousy. Yes, I blame this on culture, because it is too widespread to call it an individual thing. On the one hand they push you to excel, and on the other once you do, they do anything to pull you back down. Never, ever try to exceed what your parents have done. If your mom is a professor, make sure you stay a student for the rest of your life. In fact, don't even go to school. They blame and want respect in return. Such is Armenian family life. Behead me now. style_images/master/snapback.png Nairi, it is surprising you say that about Armenian families. I know countless Armenian families who have sacrificed much to educate their children and give them the best of all where the parents themselves were not educated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 And Siamanto, I am surprised you give such a good advice on mother-daughter relationships Well, if I may suggest my advice in general for our parents. It is true that they may have flaws, they are human beings and it could not be otherwise. But we must treat them as perfect and don't complain. Why? Because it is our duty. A family is not a democracy, the relationsips are not equal in a family. Once we are grown up we have more obligations to our parents than they to us, and they have more rights over us than we do over them - within a family setting. The same way, the roles were somewhat reversed when we were small - they had countless duties for our sake, while we would mindlessly cry and torture them with all sorts of headaches and problems, pissing in our clothes, having them to satisfy our emotional needs. So what is wrong with taking care of their emotional needs now? All we have to do is pay back our debt. Oh, and I have sometimes said things to my parents in the past that I now regret very much. I was stupid and inconsiderate. So my advice would be not to say something that you would later regret. My 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Դե լավ, համոզեցիք։ Ամաչեցի Bad, bad Anoushik Siamanto, I agree with Sasun, you seem to give great advices regarding this issue Except: It may sound crazy or humorous, but maybe she thinks that you have already accomplished the first i.e. your musical education and are ready for the next step - i.e. marriage - and need to "prepare yourself...!!!" ... Nah.... I'm sure that's not it Also Sasun: Once we are grown up we have more obligations to our parents than they to us, and they have more rights over us than we do over them - within a family setting. How come? How is it that they have more rights over us than we do over them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 How come? How is it that they have more rights over us than we do over them? style_images/master/snapback.png Because they are the reason we exist, we owe them. We should respect them. And because they are often wiser than us. So if there is a disagreement at home, their words should take priority. They are usually right, though sometimes could be wrong. I am talking about most common things that happen at home. And in life decisions such as marriage, choosing a profession, and such things, although we are the ultimate decision maker about our future, we must still try to listen to their advice with respect and care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Ok, I don't mean now (I'm obviously too young to disobey my parents completely) but when the child is really grown up and has her own family then I don't think that the parent's words should be priority. Times change and usually people don't so the parent has to know that it's time for him/her to step out of the way and let the child to lead his own life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Ok, I don't mean now (I'm obviously too young to disobey my parents completely) but when the child is really grown up and has her own family then I don't think that the parent's words should be priority. Times change and usually people don't so the parent has to know that it's time for him/her to step out of the way and let the child to lead his own life. style_images/master/snapback.png You are right, I was talking about the stage when we don't have our own families. That reminds me a painful Armenian habit - now this is something that I think is negative in Armenian families. When the parents meddle too much in the affairs of the families of their children. I had a friend who divorced his wife precicely because of his mother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I had a friend who divorced his wife precicely because of his mother. style_images/master/snapback.png I hate that. I think every Armenian family is affected by this in one way or another, even if it doesn't get as bad to have divorce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Anoushik, my advice is simple. Make fun of yourself before she gets a chance to do it. I know how to cook, but often make fun of my cooking skills and hear praises in return. I wouldn't care if I didn't know how to cook, in fact to most of my boyfriends I say that I have no idea how to. Tell her that you are hoping to become a rich and famous musician so that you could find a husband who would marry you for money and do all of the boring domestic chores for you. Your hands are meant to create art not to scrub toilets and handle pots and pans. "By the way, I made blah blah but I am not responsible for an indigestion, to be on a safe side you can always opt for a frozen dinner instead." In general try to make fun of yourself more often, that way you disarm anyone who attempts to do it to you, makes life a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Anoushik, my advice is simple. Make fun of yourself before she gets a chance to do it. In general try to make fun of yourself more often, that way you disarm anyone who attempts to do it to you, makes life a lot easier. style_images/master/snapback.png Hmmmmmmmm ... I tend to this myself ... and in different circumstances. It's a safe-proof self-defense mechanism - "Judge thy self so that you will not be judged by others" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 "By the way, I made blah blah but I am not responsible for an indigestion, to be on a safe side you can always opt for a frozen dinner instead." style_images/master/snapback.png I can see myself getting used to using this line In general try to make fun of yourself more often, that way you disarm anyone who attempts to do it to you, makes life a lot easier. Another great advice. I absolutely agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 (edited) And Siamanto, I am surprised you give such a good advice on mother-daughter relationships style_images/master/snapback.png Why so surprised? Extraterrestrians have also mothers and daughters! Well, if I may suggest my advice in general for our parents. It is true that they may have flaws, they are human beings and it could not be otherwise. But we must treat them as perfect and don't complain. Why? Because it is our duty. A family is not a democracy, the relationsips are not equal in a family. Once we are grown up we have more obligations to our parents than they to us, and they have more rights over us than we do over them - within a family setting. The same way, the roles were somewhat reversed when we were small - they had countless duties for our sake, while we would mindlessly cry and torture them with all sorts of headaches and problems, pissing in our clothes, having them to satisfy our emotional needs. So what is wrong with taking care of their emotional needs now? All we have to do is pay back our debt.. style_images/master/snapback.png I don't see it as a duty! I don't see it as a debt! It is a pleasure and pride: I find pleasure in "serving" who - parents friends or...- "deserves" it: there's a certain satisfaction in giving! Also, my family is a part of me, hence my "pride!" (I'm not sure "pride" is right word!) Is my understanding too "selfish?" Siamanto, I agree with Sasun, you seem to give great advices regarding this issue Except: ;shocking; ... Nah.... I'm sure that's not it ;D It may sound crazy or humorous, but maybe she thinks that you have already accomplished the first i.e. your musical education and are ready for the next step - i.e. marriage - and need to "prepare yourself...!!!" style_images/master/snapback.png style_images/master/snapback.png Thanks! What matters is that you exit the "labyrinth" that the relationship with your mother has become: it does not matter which exit you use! Once out, you'll find the proper entrance to a different relationship! Stepping away is the first step! [Just like Sasun has stepped away from the Candle and into Darkness, to better see the Light! His questioning: "who we are?" sounds like a voice from inside a "labyrinth!" ] Also Sasun: How come? How is it that they have more rights over us than we do over them? Because they are the reason we exist, we owe them. We should respect them. And because they are often wiser than us. So if there is a disagreement at home, their words should take priority. They are usually right, though sometimes could be wrong. I am talking about most common things that happen at home. And in life decisions such as marriage, choosing a profession, and such things, although we are the ultimate decision maker about our future, we must still try to listen to their advice with respect and care. style_images/master/snapback.png style_images/master/snapback.png Often, Children are the reason why Parents exist! As for their wisdom and advice, that may also be true of friends and "strangers!" For me it's about love, "pride???" and belonging! Edited January 1, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 I don't see it as a duty! I don't see it as a debt! It is a pleasure and pride: I find pleasure in "serving" who - parents friends or...- "deserves" it: there's a certain satisfaction in giving! I can understand and appreciate your way too. But what if someone does not find any pleasure in serving their parents? I would say that I find a lot of satisfaction in doing my duties to my parents, and am sad and unsatisfied when I fail to do so. So it does not have to be about canceling debts alone (something impossible to do to parents anyway). [Just like Sasun has stepped away from the Candle and into Darkness, to better see the Light! His questioning: "who we are?" sounds like a voice from inside a "labyrinth!" ] Hmm... I haven't stepped away from the Candle, nor I have been near the Candle before. I was merely showing a picture of a Candle, and now I am showing a picture of a Darkness As for the labyrinth, I understand it as the common human delusion that leads us to believe that we are this little and fragile body and this faulty mind that will die after some time. While the voice is asking a question so we can look for answers and wake up from this delusion. Ahh... I will stop philosophising right here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 (edited) I can understand and appreciate your way too. style_images/master/snapback.png We APPARENTLY talk about it somehow differently; of course, it should not mean that we feel differently! But what if someone does not find any pleasure in serving their parents? I would say that I find a lot of satisfaction in doing my duties to my parents, and am sad and unsatisfied when I fail to do so. So it does not have to be about canceling debts alone (something impossible to do to parents anyway). style_images/master/snapback.png I understand what you mean and I admit that may be an issue. Those who do not "willingly" give to their parents - and look at it as "paying back debt" - will eventually make them feel as "needy, dependent and fragile" individuals. Nobody should feel that way: that really damages the person, his/her pride and integrity! Just like Sasun has stepped away from the Candle and into Darkness, to better see the Light! His questioning: "who we are?" sounds like a voice from inside a "labyrinth!" style_images/master/snapback.png Hmm... I haven't stepped away from the Candle, nor I have been near the Candle before. I was merely showing a picture of a Candle, and now I am showing a picture of a Darkness As for the labyrinth, I understand it as the common human delusion that leads us to believe that we are this little and fragile body and this faulty mind that will die after some time. While the voice is asking a question so we can look for answers and wake up from this delusion. Ahh... I will stop philosophising right here style_images/master/snapback.png In my statement, "labyrinth" meant a state of questioning where a person is trying to sort out - "exit" - a somehow "messy" - i.e. complex - and confusing ideas, views, perceptions and/or emotions. A state where each answer leads to another question - such in a labyrinth! As for your "stepping away from the candle and into darkness," I know that you have enough sense of humor to... That was in reference to your somehow "metaphysical" conversations/questioning such as the existence of God, "who are we/you?" etc. Edited January 8, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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