Shahan Araradian Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Who are our revolutionaries and what has been their role in our history? They CREATED the physical independent Armenian homeland in 1918 from ashes after more than 600 years of of foreign rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 (edited) No, tseghagronoutiun is not tribalism but racism, that is, fascism -- because it elevates the race (a morallymurky and scientifically phony notion at best) to the level of religious faith. Nejdeh was a good man and a very intelligent Armenian, but he was also a child of his time, and in his time fascism was the religion of many progressive nations. But even more to the point, Nejdeh's ideas enjoyed some degree of popularity in some circles, but they totally failed to convert the nation as a whole. / ara Zionism is extreme fascism, and Israel and world Jewry aren't doing bad. No? Edited July 21, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Saturday, July 21, 2007 *************************************** ON OUR COLLECTIVE NEUROSIS **************************************************** Have we been so severely traumatized that we cannot see the obvious? Are we so arrogant as to think there is absolutely nothing wrong with us? We have been traumatized, no doubt about that. And I don’t just mean by massacres, deportations, exile, and slum life in alien countries, but above all by six centuries of subservience. To pretend there is nothing wrong with us and that we have emerged from the long nightmare without sustaining an injury to our psyche is to live in a realm of illusions that is totally divorced from reality. Consider the manner in which we conduct controversies as a case in point. In a civilized context the aim of a controversy is not verbal massacre but compromise and consensus. And the aim of writing is not to spew venom and hatred (no matter how justified) but to share understanding. Hatred, like greed, selfishness, and baseless assumptions of moral superiority are not things that need to be promoted, encouraged, justified, and legitimized. On the contrary! Even more to the point, the aim of writing is not to blame our problems on others but to expose our own failings and contradictions. Finally, the function of a writer is to be an honest witness and not a cover-up artist. # Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 They CREATED the physical independent Armenian homeland in 1918 from ashes after more than 600 years of of foreign rule. to drop our pants and bend over to the soviets: you call that independence? / ara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Saturday, July 21, 2007 *************************************** ON OUR COLLECTIVE NEUROSIS **************************************************** . Consider the manner in which we conduct controversies as a case in point. In a civilized context the aim of a controversy is not verbal massacre but compromise and consensus. And the aim of writing is not to spew venom and hatred (no matter how justified) but to share understanding. Hatred, like greed, selfishness, and baseless assumptions of moral superiority are not things that need to be promoted, encouraged, justified, and legitimized. On the contrary! Even more to the point, the aim of writing is not to blame our problems on others but to expose our own failings and contradictions. Finally, the function of a writer is to be an honest witness and not a cover-up artist. # ---------------------------------------- You have always encouraged Armenians to do compromise and consensus without a trace of hatred and to share understanding, to be humble, and so on, it seems that Hrant Dink was exactly what you recommended… May be he was not in a civilized context ? I have a friend in Istanbul, I asked him why he staid there, why not go in another country, he replied: this is our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 to drop our pants and bend over to the soviets: you call that independence? / ara Did I forget to say that Independence is a CONSTANT battle? Yes, the soviets out-gunned and out-powered the ARF and the nationalists, but that does not mean Armenians willingly relinquished their country. Certainly not without a fight. And the battle for true independence continues today, as multi-national corporations own significant portions of the Armenian economy, as the Armenian gov't goes into greater debt by taking on loans, and as Armenians flee Armenia due to lack of jobs... The only option is to continue the struggle that our revolutionaries began. Without our revolutionaries, neither an Armenian SSR would have existed, nor (it follows) today's Armenia. Give credit where credit is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Did I forget to say that Independence is a CONSTANT battle? Yes, the soviets out-gunned and out-powered the ARF and the nationalists, but that does not mean Armenians willingly relinquished their country. Certainly not without a fight. And the battle for true independence continues today, as multi-national corporations own significant portions of the Armenian economy, as the Armenian gov't goes into greater debt by taking on loans, and as Armenians flee Armenia due to lack of jobs... The only option is to continue the struggle that our revolutionaries began. Without our revolutionaries, neither an Armenian SSR would have existed, nor (it follows) today's Armenia. Give credit where credit is due. to support a corrupt regime (or a mafia-democracy) is to betray humanity! -- including freedom, independence, and human rights./ ara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 ---------------------------------------- You have always encouraged Armenians to do compromise and consensus without a trace of hatred and to share understanding, to be humble, and so on, it seems that Hrant Dink was exactly what you recommended… May be he was not in a civilized context ? I have a friend in Istanbul, I asked him why he staid there, why not go in another country, he replied: this is our country. Hrant Dink was a man of integrity and courage who willingly accepted the risks he was taking -- unlike our turcocentric pundits who hurl verbal stones at turks from a very safe distance. / ara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 to support a corrupt regime (or a mafia-democracy) is to betray humanity! -- including freedom, independence, and human rights./ ara Ara, please be specific. Which "corrupt regime (or a mafia-democracy)" are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ara, please be specific. Which "corrupt regime (or a mafia-democracy)" are you talking about? our own -- both homeland and diaspora. you seem to confuse patriotism with support of politicians who, when not corrupt, are inept. by supporting the men at the top, you betray the people and by extension the nation. / ara p.s. and mafia-democracy is not my descriptive term but Havel's -- and no one has yet questioned his intellectual and political integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 QUOTATIONS FROM KAREKIN NEJDEH (1886-1957) ************************************************** Selected and translated by Ara Baliozian The morally depraved can also voice noble principles. Life is constant and endless renewal. Only the morally irresponsible refuse to understand this. Without renewal, a nation dies every hour, every minute. Our political parties either don't understand this or they have no desire to understand it. A nation that fails to do what it can and must do has no right to expect foreign assistance. Nations that are unwilling to defend their own interests condemn themselves to death. When dealing with foreign powers and issues, our press adopts a permissive, forgiving, and subservient tone. With our own internal problems, however, it becomes arrogant, vindictive, vicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 our own -- both homeland and diaspora. you seem to confuse patriotism with support of politicians who, when not corrupt, are inept. by supporting the men at the top, you betray the people and by extension the nation. / ara p.s. and mafia-democracy is not my descriptive term but Havel's -- and no one has yet questioned his intellectual and political integrity. Ara, men will always lead other men. If you wish to be part of the Armenian nation, then there are two possibilities: 1) Either you will lead, or 2) You will be led (directly or indirectly). The ARF and the Armenian community has done a fine job of creating Armenian schools and organizations and preserving and cultivating the Armenian culture and Armenian community-spirit. If you can improve the process, then become a part of it. LEAD if you can!!! Part of leadership is proposing solutions. If there are indeed some issues, then everyone will see them. It is the leaders who propose solutions and implement them. So far all I have read from you is complaints, problems, with no proposed solutions. If you want to affect your environment positively to see the goal you want accomplished, then you must propose ways towards achieving those goals. And what are your goals anyways? What does the ideal Armenian community look like in your mind? the ideal Armenian organization? the ideal Armenia? I don't think you've decided where you want to go. Hence, you can't propose solutions since you don't know what the problem is that you want to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 (edited) Sunday, July 22, 2007 ********************************************** WHY I DISCUSS OUR PROBLEMS ON ODAR FORUMS ************************************************* Because all men are brothers and we Armenians are members of the same family known as mankind. Because I am a human being first and an Armenian second, and if my understanding of our problems, and by extension of the human condition, is right, then I prefer to share it with all of mankind as opposed to a small fraction of it. Because I know what it means to be a human being. As for being an Armenian: there are probably as many definitions of it as there are Armenians. Because our problems are universal in so far as all nations, including the mightiest empires, have experienced divisions and defeats. Because at all times and everywhere underdogs outnumber top dogs and entire continents today are populated by present and former refugees and victims of intolerance, persecution, poverty, starvation, war and massacre; and because every human being alive today has experienced hatred, injustice, and discrimination. Because there is some degree of corruption and incompetence in all power structures for the simple reason that power corrupts both the powerful and the weak, and very often the weak more than the powerful. Because I want our editors and moderators to know that their power goes only as far as their own diminutive backyards and their efforts to violate my fundamental human right of free speech are destined to be self-defeating and to boomerang. Finally, I discuss our problems whenever and wherever I am given the opportunity to do so because not to do so would amount to covering them up and I reject that option as cowardly; I also believe a bigger audience enhances the probability of being corrected when wrong. # Edited July 22, 2007 by ara baliozian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Ara, men will always lead other men. If you wish to be part of the Armenian nation, then there are two possibilities: 1) Either you will lead, or 2) You will be led (directly or indirectly). The ARF and the Armenian community has done a fine job of creating Armenian schools and organizations and preserving and cultivating the Armenian culture and Armenian community-spirit. If you can improve the process, then become a part of it. LEAD if you can!!! Part of leadership is proposing solutions. If there are indeed some issues, then everyone will see them. It is the leaders who propose solutions and implement them. So far all I have read from you is complaints, problems, with no proposed solutions. If you want to affect your environment positively to see the goal you want accomplished, then you must propose ways towards achieving those goals. And what are your goals anyways? What does the ideal Armenian community look like in your mind? the ideal Armenian organization? the ideal Armenia? I don't think you've decided where you want to go. Hence, you can't propose solutions since you don't know what the problem is that you want to solve. to be led does not mean to say yes sir! that's subservience. the only way to improve the nation is to support honesty and not charlatanism! / ara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 to be led does not mean to say yes sir! that's subservience. This is true Ara. But in any human organization there necessarily will be a hierarchy -- a power structure. Of course, finding an organization based on a meritocracy is a difficult thing. And in reality it is not the domain-experts in a given field who rise to the top of management, but those who know how to communicate effectively -- and how to connect disparate groups of people. (The former are the A-students; the latter are the C-students -- at least most often.) the only way to improve the nation is to support honesty and not charlatanism! / ara "charlatanism" -- not all leaders are as such. You seem to oppose every and all power structures. Who should run the show? Computers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Sunday, July 22, 2007 ********************************************** WHY I DISCUSS OUR PROBLEMS ON ODAR FORUMS ************************************************* Because all men are brothers and we Armenians are members of the same family known as mankind. Because I am a human being first and an Armenian second, and if my understanding of our problems, and by extension of the human condition, is right, then I prefer to share it with all of mankind as opposed to a small fraction of it. Because I know what it means to be a human being. As for being an Armenian: there are probably as many definitions of it as there are Armenians. Because our problems are universal in so far as all nations, including the mightiest empires, have experienced divisions and defeats. Because at all times and everywhere underdogs outnumber top dogs and entire continents today are populated by present and former refugees and victims of intolerance, persecution, poverty, starvation, war and massacre; and because every human being alive today has experienced hatred, injustice, and discrimination. Because there is some degree of corruption and incompetence in all power structures for the simple reason that power corrupts both the powerful and the weak, and very often the weak more than the powerful. Because I want our editors and moderators to know that their power goes only as far as their own diminutive backyards and their efforts to violate my fundamental human right of free speech are destined to be self-defeating and to boomerang. Finally, I discuss our problems whenever and wherever I am given the opportunity to do so because not to do so would amount to covering them up and I reject that option as cowardly; I also believe a bigger audience enhances the probability of being corrected when wrong. # ----------------------------------------- Yes the power corrupts the leaders, we had so many examples, but where are the weaks corrupted by power ? Very few of them are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 (edited) "charlatanism" -- not all leaders are as such. You seem to oppose every and all power structures. Who should run the show? Computers? Charlatanism? Maybe Ara should look in the mirror when he shaves (does he?) to see who the biggest "charlatan" and "punchuni" is. Has anyone noticed that he does not use the latter term ever since I told him who the real "punchuni", "have nothing" in his limited knowledge of Armenian ban chuni/բան չունի and punch-uni փանչ -ունի is? Look how Yervand Otian spells his masterpece Unker Panchuni , one of the best examples of PUN/ play with words /բառախաղ and see why he spells the way he does. He does not spell ԲԱՆ ՉՈՒՆԻ but ՓԱՆՋՈՒՆԻ. Not to mean "ban/khosq/thing" but referring to "PUNCH". Edited July 22, 2007 by Arpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 (edited) His come-backs with quotes from Նժդեհ were quite good, though. Edited July 22, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 (edited) Charlatanism? Maybe Ara should look in the mirror when he shaves (does he?) to see who the biggest "charlatan" and "punchuni" is. Has anyone noticed that he does not use the latter term ever since I told him who the real "punchuni", "have nothing" in his limited knowledge of Armenian ban chuni/բան չունի and punch-uni փանչ -ունի is? Look how Yervand Otian spells his masterpece Unker Panchuni and see why he spells the way he does. He does not spell ԲԱՆ ՉՈՒՆԻ but ՓԱՆՋՈՒՆԻ. Not to mean "ban/khosq/thing" but referring to "PUNCH". Hey Arpha, your constant reference to "Panchuni" doesn't really fly. Have you thought about the possibility that "Yervand Otian" had a flawed argument? Those "panchuni"s created Armenia, my classical Armenian-loving friend. P.S. Which year did "Yervand Otian" coin the term "panchuni"? Was it before 1918 or after? Edited July 22, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Monday, July 23, 2007 ********************************************** BITCHES, PIMPS, AND MORONS ***************************************** “A war against terrorism such as we have seen is an oxymoron undertaken by morons,” writes Gerry Spence in BLOODTHIRSTY BITCHES AND PIOUS PIMPS OF POWER (New York, 2006), which in my view is one of the very best books ever written about the conservative movement in America today with particular emphasis on such “talking heads” as Nancy Grace (may she rest in peace), Jerry Falwell (ditto), Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly, and Pat Robertson. Elsewhere Spence quotes the following words by Rosa Parks: “People, not governments, bring change.” Further down: “A revolution begins not with guns but with a revolution of thought. A revolution of thought begins with a revolution of knowledge. A revolution of knowledge requires that people be fully informed. But here again we face a nearly impossible obstacle: the media that informs the people is also owned by the corporate King.” * Only a thoroughly brainwashed Armenian will assert our own leadership has been and continues to be less dogmatic, more tolerant of dissent, and less moronic. Which is why I feel justified in asserting: unless we thoroughly de-Ottomanize and de-Stalinize ourselves, mart bidi ch’ellank. # Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 ----------------------------------------- Yes the power corrupts the leaders, we had so many examples, but where are the weaks corrupted by power ? Very few of them are. the weak are corrupted by power when they think adopting a passive stance and saying yes sir! is the only proper thing to do. / ara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 This is true Ara. But in any human organization there necessarily will be a hierarchy -- a power structure. Of course, finding an organization based on a meritocracy is a difficult thing. And in reality it is not the domain-experts in a given field who rise to the top of management, but those who know how to communicate effectively -- and how to connect disparate groups of people. (The former are the A-students; the latter are the C-students -- at least most often.) "charlatanism" -- not all leaders are as such. You seem to oppose every and all power structures. Who should run the show? Computers? i agree, not all leaders are charlatans; but the honest ones have so far failed to change things; which means they are lesser leaders who prefer to be subservient to the crooks. which also means, they do not qualify as leaders. but for more on this, later./ ara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 the weak are corrupted by power when they think adopting a passive stance and saying yes sir! is the only proper thing to do. / ara -------------------------------- The proper thing to do is a "cas de conscience". You risk your life ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Tuesday, July 24, 2007 ****************************************** LIES IN POLITICS ******************************* In Robert Dallek’s NIXON AND KISSINGER: PARTNERS IN POWER (New York, 2007) we are told that, as a translator in Germany after World War II, Kissinger learned the following lesson from camp survivors: “Impulses to dwell on past horrors would produce sorrow and self-pity, which were forms of ‘weakness’ that were ‘synonymous with death’” (page 39). Elsewhere Dallek quotes William Safire to the effect that both Nixon and Kissinger were “convinced that consistent lying can be the right thing for the country” (page 615). We are also informed here that they lied not only to the people but also to each other as well as to themselves – by believing in their own ‘image’, which, like all images, bears little relation to reality. This may suggest that in politics, and by extension history, the truth is constantly hidden from us and by the time it is revealed – if at all – it is too late because by then the damage is done and no one on earth has the power to unring the bell or resurrect the dead. As for those who say, perhaps even believe, that all politicians lie except ours: I envy their innocence but I have nothing but contempt for their loyalty, because loyalty to men, when it overrides loyalty to truth, is essentially a fascist concept. # Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 -------------------------------- The proper thing to do is a "cas de conscience". You risk your life ! Not always: case in point: when armenians adopt a passive stance towards their leaders and naively accept what their bosses, bishops, and benefactors say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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